Profit margins?

[OneEyedPimp]

Hello,

This has been bugging me for a while, so I did a search and came up with nothing. My question is this: What is the profit margin on the guns sold by companies like Bob Long, WDP, WGP, etc.? I had also heard that AGD's margin was quite slim, is this true?

[rkjunior303]

You gotta figure, as production goes up and things get outsourced more and more, profit margins go up because the product becomes cheaper and cheaper to produce....

AGD, which seems like it's 1 step up from a custom shop, probably has a very small profit margin due to the volume of sales.

[OneEyedPimp]

You gotta figure, as production goes up and things get outsourced more and more, profit margins go up because the product becomes cheaper and cheaper to produce....

AGD, which seems like it's 1 step up from a custom shop, probably has a very small profit margin due to the volume of sales.

Of course, but are you saying that at one point these markers(intimadater, angels, etc.) once cost close to what they do now?

[WARPED1]

I don't know the prices of from manufacturer to wholesaler, but wholesaler to stores are very minimal.

[Lohman446]

I beleive K2 is a publically traded company. You should be able to disect there annual report enough to have some idea the profit from WGP and BE, though your not going to get a idea of margin it should answer some of your questions.

[tae]

Your right Lohman.
K2 if I remember correctly made 9mil. gross in 04. Thats the only number I recall off the top of my head. Ive been trying to find the report. :tard:

[Kevmaster]

Fiscal 04, BE/VL/JT made $110m gross and 10m of that was profit.

very profitable for them.

Don't know what their numbers look like as part of K2

[tae]

Fiscal 04, BE/VL/JT made $110m gross and 10m of that was profit.

very profitable for them.

Don't know what their numbers look like as part of K2
I must be remembering things wrong. Id imagine that Worr made similar profits. I think we should post these numbers for consumer awareness. Anyone else agree?

Mr. Kevmaster, where did you find those numbers?

[Kevmaster]

I think I was a little off with the numbers.

Sorry about that.



Fiscal 2002: 109M with income of 9.7M

I can't find fiscal 2003 & 2004 numbers as BE is no longer an independent corp and their info has been lost by yahoo finance or so it seems....

K2 in fiscal 2004 made about 1.2B overall and 400M of it was profit.

so...im not entirely sure about the numbers. I'll call some people at BE tomorrow and see what I can figure out....

[Kevmaster]

Mr. Kevmaster, where did you find those numbers?

Tae, my first set was from my memory...which was apparently a little off...

the second set is from google searches.

[phantomhitman]

From the reports of last fiscal year (before september basically) k2 took a huge hit and lost millions. The analysts said this was due to the acquired paintball items.........

That is only what I read...I am ignorant when it comes to wall street stuff.

edit-the price jackup from wholesale to retail is significant of course

[Lohman446]

From the reports of last fiscal year (before september basically) k2 took a huge hit and lost millions. The analysts said this was due to the acquired paintball items.........

That is only what I read...I am ignorant when it comes to wall street stuff.

edit-the price jackup from wholesale to retail is significant of course

Define signifigant, most retailers work on a mark-up margin of around 30%, I once worked for someone where the owner insisted anything was marked up at least 20% - it was actually company policy that everything be. Paintball mark-up, at least on many items, sucks in comparison to other retail mark-up. Wholesale to retail might look good, but remember under the small business, short term mind-set (not an insult) that is paintball today mark-up from wholesale to actual sale price sucks.

[Kevmaster]

oh...and i thought i would mention, PB was about a 700M business in 2002, when BE posted a 100M gross...making them about 1/7th of all paintball business.

[shartley]

From the reports of last fiscal year (before september basically) k2 took a huge hit and lost millions. The analysts said this was due to the acquired paintball items.........

That is only what I read...I am ignorant when it comes to wall street stuff.

edit-the price jackup from wholesale to retail is significant of course
That is not what I saw… unless we read different things.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9662708/

Don’t fall for misleading verbiage. They don’t state they took a loss. They say they made less than they expected to make. That is a huge difference. And in fact their 3rd quarter sales are 23% higher than the previous year’s.

Again don’t fall for misleading verbage. Slashing earnings estimates is far from “lost millions” or is losing money. They are in fact still increasing their profit margins, just not as fast as they WANT or expected. But this often happens when a company expands like that. They can flop, slow growth, or boom. And they are now acting like slow growth is a bad thing. LOL Sorry if I don’t shed a tear for a GROWING company that is making a profit.
;)

[phantomhitman]

I read that article but there was another posted on 68caliber or pbnation that was talking about (an analyst was) k2 looking to sell of paintball related items. I did misrad that article you posted though, thanks for clearing that up. I hang my head in shame....I could have started a rumor. :argh:

[shartley]

I read that article but there was another posted on 68caliber or pbnation that was talking about (an analyst was) k2 looking to sell of paintball related items. I did misrad that article you posted though, thanks for clearing that up. I hang my head in shame....I could have started a rumor. :argh:
Bah, don’t worry about it. That article was actually written to leave the reader with the wrong impression anyways. I hate it when they do that. You really have to be careful to read what is written, not what they want you to walk away “thinking”.
:cheers:

[zaqwert6]

They are in fact still increasing their profit margins, just not as fast as they WANT or expected. But this often happens when a company expands like that. They can flop, slow growth, or boom. And they are now acting like slow growth is a bad thing. LOL Sorry if I don’t shed a tear for a GROWING company that is making a profit.
;)


K2 is in fact in mad panic about the lost of expected growth in the most recent quarter.

[shartley]

K2 is in fact in mad panic about the lost of expected growth in the most recent quarter.
I don’t doubt that, but that is far from saying they LOST money or have not made a profit. They are scrambling because they promised investors X and didn’t deliver. But again, that is far from saying they are “hurting” or have taken a serious hit.

Any time I hear someone announce that they in fact made a profit; and MORE than the previous year; and then CRY about it being not enough….. come on…. I am sure we all are more intelligent than that. :rolleyes:

[zaqwert6]

Not arguing that fact at all only stating that they 'do' actually consider it a hit and a borderline major set back of thier paintball investment at this time. Mostly related to the WGP investment right now.

[tyrion2323]

I'm glad K2 is upset about this...

With the crap they pulled going after the smaller companies, I'm hoping they feel the burn for a little longer.

Plus, K2 skis are just too soft for my liking. Dynastar - now that's where it's at!

[Lohman446]

I'm glad K2 is upset about this...

With the crap they pulled going after the smaller companies, I'm hoping they feel the burn for a little longer.

Plus, K2 skis are just too soft for my liking. Dynastar - now that's where it's at!


:rolleyes: yeh, because there was never any politics and business practices before K2 got here :rolleyes: