Please help me at being a better haggler

[Evil1]

Like the title says, I am probably going to be picking up a semi-expensive car within the next few weeks and I need some tips from some people that have bought cars from a dealer in the past. The car I'm going to buy is from a registered dealer and it happens to be the first time I'm buying a car from a real dealer, not some mechanic w/ a used car business on the side. I'm not trying to go there and save 10k or nothing, but I've been told by a couple people that you can save a few hundred on a car if you know how to haggle. I have no experience haggling and would like some tips on how to haggle without being disrespectful to the salemen or flat out pissing him off. The reason why I ask of this here on AO is that I know that there are some posters with brains and they've been around the block a few times. Any help is appreciated.

[nippinout]

link (http://www.carbuyingtips.com/)

link (http://auto.consumerguide.com/) (This site has dealer invoice prices for vehicle and options. Consumer Reports makes you pay money.)

I used those sites when I was looking at getting a car.

Go into the dealer informed. It's hard to not get wrapped up in the excitement. Remember, the dealer wants your money and business. You can walk away at any time. Make an offer, and haggle. Get a financing plan offer. Then go to another dealership to see if they can beat it.

A little tip is to not go into the dealer with any appointments/errands to do right after. If you aren't rushed, you can be relaxed- don't go in hungry and having to go to the bathroom in the middle of it all.

Go in with an initial offer already planned out. Use the worksheets from the carbuyingtips site. And with the initial offer planned out, have a maximum offer also that you will not go over.

Negotiate everything seperatley. Don't let the dealer know anything more than they need to. For instance, they may offer you a great deal on the car, but crappy financing and crappy trade-in value. Negotiate the price, the financing, and the trade-in seperately. Lie to them about wanting to trade-in. Pop that into the bargaining table when it fits you. Keeping the upperhand at negotiations is to your benefit.

Let them know that you cannot be scammed into a bad deal (Don't say, "I cannot be scammed) but with your actions. Go into the dealer educated. Know all the tricks that they can use.

Never hand over a check until everything is in writing. Don't sign anything until the price is final, and the bank has approved everything.

Good luck!

[Miscue]

Know exactly what deal you want before you walk in. Don't let them try to confuse you. Know exactly what the vehicle is worth and what people are paying for it.

If you look at Edmunds and stuff like that... pay attention to the TMV price.

All salesmen... lie lie lie lie lie.

The salesperson will almost guaranteed give you a BS story why those prices are not correct... I've negotiated through 4 vehicles in about 3 years... heard the same BS stories... and ended up getting the price I planned on. TMV or better.

Different dealers are easier to negotiate with than others. It depends on a lot of things... can depend on the car... can depend on how their quotas work...

A particular car from a particular dealer... you may not be able to negotiate at all. This is typically certain luxury cars and stuff. Supply/demand ya know. Like say you want a Lexus... and say you gotta drive to another state to get to the next dealership... they kinda have leverage.

Some are easy... like Toyota - you can get $500 over invoice or better without much effort.

Get a preapproved loan. "I have money," is easier to negotiate with... and you might not know what kind of loan they can get you anyway. They will still run your credit... and you can opt to finance through them if it's a better loan.

Take up their time. Catch them when they are busy. Let them know that you are serious about it. Do not be afraid to walk away. Stick to your guns. You don't have to buy the car.

They're human... they are impressionable. I wear old clothes when just looking around... actually, I just go on Sundays when they're closed. I dress better when I go in... trying to give them whatever impression I can... so that they know I'm serious and not jerking them around.

I waited months for my 4Runner, because of end of year rebates and stuff... I went on 4th of July... they were busy as hell. I said, "I want this vehicle on your lot for $500 over invoice... and the $2500 rebate on top of it. I have my own financing." I didn't tell him what color I wanted, or features... I told him exactly what vehicle it was. He said... "Okay." I didn't negotiate at all.

[Lohman446]

Are you buying new or used?

[B.A.M.]

offer below what you want to pay and have a set limit that you'll work up to. Look like you can probaly buy it somewhere else so they'll give you a deal

[Steelrat]

Set a price limit, and don't go past it.

Talk overall price, not payments.

Be prepared to walk out. If necessary, go ahead and walk. Make sure they have a number they can reach you at.

I've bought a lot of cars. Some went well, some were ugly as hell. I've walked out numerous times in the past, and usually received a call a few days later, with the sales manager offering me the deal I wanted. For my current vehicle, a Nissan Titan, I was at the dealership until 11:30 PM arguing prices with them.

You don't want to be their friend, but remember not to be a jerk. Its all business. I've heard every hard luck story, including one from a guy who had two artificial hands (hooks) who was trying to lay some guilt-trip on me. Don't give them a penny more than you have to.

[devildog]

remember that if he wont meet what you want, dont be afraid to pass the deal up. other deals will ALWAYS come along.

[Altimas]

You want the best price you can get on a car, its really simple.

Follow a lot of what the guys above said, look good, dont take crap and know what your talking about. Then when he asks if your interested in financing. Say No and pull out a fat wad of cash and say you would like to pay with this.

I paid off the two cars I own, then when I was ready to get a new car I sold one and saved up the remaining money to get my new one. When I had the amount of money I wanted to pay for the car I wanted I pulled it out of the bank. (the bank didnt like that lol) I went to the dealership and went through the haggling and all that not once ever saying I was going to pay cash so the car started out being 16,999.00 I was going to get a rebate of 2500.00... And I was good for a loan with pretty decent payments. So then I said "I want this car for 10,000.00, Take the 16,999 and take off the rebate thats 14,500.00. Now take off the 4,500 because I am paying with this (Heres where you show the money)." Car salesman love cash more than anything else, use it to your advantage.

[Steelrat]

Car salesman love cash more than anything else, use it to your advantage.

I'd actually disagree with this. Dealerships make a lot of money arranging financing for the cars they sell. They actually stand to make MORE money if you finance with them than if you paid cash. They don't care how they get the money, just that they get it.

[bleachit]

I have a question. do these principles work for both new and used or only new vehicles?

[Lohman446]

I'd actually disagree with this. Dealerships make a lot of money arranging financing for the cars they sell. They actually stand to make MORE money if you finance with them than if you paid cash. They don't care how they get the money, just that they get it.

I agree - I do not finance vehicles on my own small lot, and I really don't care where the cash comes from just that I get it, bank, cash, check, whatever. Dealing with cash is actually a pain as it results in IRS forms I have to fill out.

And those that finance, a lot of there money comes from financing. Those financing for "special financing" is a different ball game, and if you are paying cash at one of those lots you should expect a 30% or so decrease in price as the finance companies in "special financing" do not give the dealer the full price he "sells" the car to you for. Its a complex, screwed up system.

As far as haggling, it really varies from lot to lot with used cars. I do not mark up any vehicle a lot so theres not a ton of room to haggle, though I am not going to loose a sale over $100 or $200.

Remember this - trading in a vehicle is a convenience, regardless of how much trade in value they give you for the vehicle it is a matter of working numbers. I don't take a lot of trades, you will find you can get more selling them outright. It is to your advantage used to get a lesser sticker price for the vehicle you are buying and a lesser trade in value as sales tax is computed, at least in some states, on trade in value as well.

[thefuzz]

Here's a trick my dad used when I went to go buy my first car:

Dealer - "Would you like to finance through us?"
Dad - "We already have financing but if you can go lower then we'll go through you."
Dealer - "Whats your interest rate?"
Dad - "4.3%"
Dealer - "Hold on" *gets up and goes*
Me - "Uh...isn't our interest rate 4.5%?"
Dad - "Yeah but he doesn't know that and if he can go down to 4.2% we're doing much better than I thought we would."
Dealer - *came back* "Best we can do is 4.5%"
Dad - "okay thanks."

[AcemanPB]

Look out for all the 'hidden' fees dealers like to tag on at the end. When I bought my first car I very firmly said 'I want to pay X amount of dollars to drive off the lot with that car.' The dealer swore up and down that he just couldn't go that low, so I left. He called back two days later and gave me the offer.

[Vex]

From an ex-salesman's point of view:

You have to go to the dealer on the right day. I've found that Mondays and Wednesdays are the best days...especially if you can hold out until December. Mondays are lag because the dealer just came off of the weekend. Wednesdays are rough because, who the hell buys a car during the middle of the week? Not many people.
If you can catch the dealer at a down time, then it will be to your advantage. If you live in a smaller town or city, and the dealer is open on Sunday, then that can be a good day as well. Anytime the dealership is not fully staffed with salesmen is a great time also.

Also, if you don't like your salesman, you can ask for someone else--don't be afraid to do this. If someone else comes in on the deal, then the salesman will have to split his profit 50/50.

Other than this, coupled with the really good advice given above--just remember: stay firm and don't be afraid to walk away. Don't lowball them either--they will most likely laugh you out of the dealership (seen it happen MANY times--with KIAs no doubt!)

A great deal on a car is anywhere from $500 - $1,000 over invoice (known as a "mini-deal").
At this price range, you get a great deal, the salesman gets $100, and the dealer sells a car. I see it as win/win/win.

EDIT: Miscue, I NEVER lied to a customer. I was accused of it one time, and it really pissed me off. I let them know too! Finally, my manager stepped up and admitted that he had "mislead" them. They apologized, so all was good.

[thecavemankevin]

there are a ton of good tips above, here a small list:

first and foremost do your research! Know what the cars MSRP is and what the dealer paid for it.


Know what options you want before you go to make your deal (this is very important). You may even want to go to a different dealer to do a test run before you do the real deal. Personally, i wouldn't waste the money on the treatment stuff (undercoating, teating the appolstry etc...).

If your trading in, tell them your not until after the price and everything has been set on the car. After all has been set, say your going to lunch to think it over. come back and tell them you have a trade and want it appraised.

I like what thefuzz said in his little skit above about what their financing rate is. I too have used this and saved my mother 3/4's of a point on financing charges because i told the guy we had better than we did. Know what your bank will do for you before going in, this way you can tell them to shove thier financing if need be.

BEST TRICK OF ALL
Ok, heres a trick i have used very successfully several times and saved a lot of money. It is very simple (especially for those new to haggleing such as yourself), it just takes a little bit more time. It works best with new cars, but can work with used vehicles too. Now, most larger towns/cities have atleast two dealerships for each car manufacuturer. We'll call them A and B for this demo.

Once you have found the exact vehicle you want (model, color, options ect....) get the "best" price the salesman will give you and tell him your going to lunch and will think about it. Dont forget to get his business card with phone number on it. Now, head accross town to the other dealership and repeat the process. Now, if A has given you a better deal than B (the dealership you're currently at) tell him that and see what deal he can give you. Likely he will be it by about $100 or so. Now, tell him your going to think about it and head accross the street to McDonalds or whatever. Call dealer A back and tell him B has beaten his offer by atleast $300 (this is like what thefuzz was saying about interest points). Likely A will beat his offer by a few hundred, say thank you and your going to call him back shortly. Head back to B and tell him the good news that you have been given a better offer and see what he can do for you.

Repeat this process as many times as possible until one of them throws in the towel. When i did this for my wifes car i had the salesmen throwing in CD changers, care packeges and everything. one more thing to note about this process, never let either salesmen know the name of their rival. I know a guy that i told him to do this, he made the mistake of telling one of the salesmen that his rivals name was Joe Blow. So the saleman (while my friend was thinking it over at McD's) called up Joe and they already knew each other and worked out the deal between themselves, thus screwing over my friend.

This process can be time consuming (expect to spend atleast one full day doing this) but i tell you i volunteer to help all my friends and family when they are looking to buy a new car. There isn't much in the world that is as fun as putting the screws to a couple of car salesmen and watching them squirm. :D

One more tip, you can contact other dealers around the state and tell them what you are looking for and see what they can do for you. Tell them what your current best offer is and see if anyone is itching to beat them. When i did this for my in-laws we actually ended up driving three+ hours to another dealership because we got a hell of a deal over the phone/internet. They were a brand new dealership (second month of opperation) and had a bunch of cars burning holes in their pockets.

good luck and have fun....this shouldnt be stressfull at all. In fact if it is, leave and go elsewhere.

[thecavemankevin]

one more thing to add to my above statement:

Once you have agreed on everything, but shortly before you sign the contracts tell them you want a hat or something. But make sure it is a manufacturers apperal line. I made the mistake when buying a dodge saying i wanted a hat. They gave me a crappy dealer piece of crap. when i said, i meant one of those nice manufacturers hats he said, i cant give you one of those and it was too late, i already signed the contract :(

but i have a bunch of hats from volkswagen, Dodge, Mazda and so on.

[Lohman446]

Want the best price you can get on a USED vehicle - and an inherent risk buying used. Know exactly what you want - and I mean exactly. Know what colors are acceptable and what options you can / cannot live without. Have financing / cash arranged. Find out who the buyer is for a dealership or go to a small car lot. Ask them what they will charge you to pick up a vehicle at the dealer only auctions for them. I have often sold vehicles for my costs + a fairly small fee to people on this deal - saving people a lot of money over purchasing something in inventory off a lot. Now, you are taking the risk that you get a problem vehicle, and the person you have buying it you need to trust and needs to have a mechanical enough knowledge to be able to see and arbitrate there way out of a bad sale (discussion of auction rules here, but you do not drive them before you buy them as a general rule, too many there, you drive them after and only certain things can kill the sale, not just you don't like it). It gives the dealer an easy sale, little risk, and gets you probably the best possible price, along with some risk

[Evil1]

Alright, first off thanks for all of the tips and help. Sorry I didn't respond sooner. Here is the info I can give. I plan on buying an 03-05 subaru wrx(can't afford the sti yet) with less than 50k on it. I have heard that it is hard to haggle with subaru dealers. I don't know why, but thats the general concensus that I've got. I don't plan on financing through the dealer, I'll do that through my bank. Keep the tips coming!!!

[sbpyro]

A coworker just got a new truck and this was his strategy
1. Get the financing you want (amount, rate and terms etc)
2. Get a check for up to that amount.
3. Use dealerships against each other.

I asked him about his strategy since I'm planning to buy a new vehicle soom myself.

[phantomhitman]

you always get further with a smile and a gun than you do with just a smile :shooting:
/gangster quote

[Lohman446]

Alright, first off thanks for all of the tips and help. Sorry I didn't respond sooner. Here is the info I can give. I plan on buying an 03-05 subaru wrx(can't afford the sti yet) with less than 50k on it. I have heard that it is hard to haggle with subaru dealers. I don't know why, but thats the general concensus that I've got. I don't plan on financing through the dealer, I'll do that through my bank. Keep the tips coming!!!

If you are going to a dealership and have financing call and talk to the fleet manager. Often enough they have the authority to deal with customer's but are not in the position to do so normally. They will often give you the best price with the least amount of run around

[Evil1]

I'm going to try talking to the fleet manager like you said Lohman, If all else fails, I'll stoop to low levels and bring my dad. He is real good at commanding respect and can brow beat anyone into just about anything. He bought an 05 Toyota Tacoma a few months ago with all the bells and whistles,4x4,V6,TRD package for almost $6k off of sticker price. He is real smart when it comes to certain things and real good at arguing. He can also be obnoxious and make a scene and start name-calling and belittling people and it seems to work for him. I think whenever he gets a new car, dealers just give him a good deal just to make him leave. He won't give me any tips on haggling though, he just says that I should bring him along so I don't get ripped off.

[Vex]

If you're going after a popular car, such as the WRX, then be prepared for the dealer to not budge much, if at all on the price. If he doesn't sell it to you, someone else will come along and buy it for what he's asking. Remember, at a car dealership, you're not a person, you're a sale--and that's it. Once you buy, they'll be nice to you because they really dig repeat business.
You truly are just a number though. Unless you buy a really expensive Infinity or something. Then they'll give you cappuccino.

Since it's used, they will probably come down a bit on the price. The mark-up on used cars is VERY high. New vehicles generally have relatively low mark-ups.

Dude, if your dad was buying a car from me, and he became obnoxious and rude, he would most likely be told to remove himself from the dealership and never come back. There is NO reason that a customer should become irate when working out a price. You want one price, the dealer wants another. It's just a matter of time before you reach an agreement. Patience and persistence is key. Wear the salesman out. Wear the manager out. Be headstrong in what you want, but don't be a prick.

[Evil1]

Phaze, My dad is rude and obnoxious, I will completely agree with that. He is really good at it though. He maintains a certain composure and it always seems to work for him. He never gets real beligerant or threatens or crosses lines, but he is really good at making people do things for him. He has this way about him where he can tell someone to go to hell and have them looking forward to the trip. He kind of reminds me of Paul Sr. on American Choppers, but much smarter. He usually doesn't get real out of line unless a saleman tries to talk down on him. I worded the one post a little wrong. The one time about 7 or 8 years ago, he bought a van for his side business, the salesman told him one thing and tried to reneg on it and then tried to call my dad stupid and then it got real ugly.