what branch military?

[ZeezNutz]

i am looking at becoming an officer in the airforce if engineering at clemson falls through (got accepted this week :) ) there is an army drill sargent and an ex-marine force recon at my field. i was wondering what yall are/have been/going to be

[blembiggity]

i am a f-16 mechanic in the us air force and i love it. i have been in for 5 years and have been overseas the whole time. i have no ambition to go tot he states because thats where i grew up. i am in korea now and will be doing a 3 year tour in englan next year. i dont know about the officer lifestyle but i know us enlisted know how to party.

[chadcummings]

I am a Army Armor officer. I have been in the service for over 10 years 5 of which I was enlisted. I was an infantryman as enlisted and an armor officer now. I command a company of tanks. There is no greater feeling than what you will feel in combat arms.

Chad

[sajohnston]

Each branch has its ups and downs, just have to figure out what your wishes are. The service in general isn't right for everyone. I have 10 years in the army, 2 enlisted (as a 93B aeroscout observer), 8 as commissioned officer (as a 15B Apache pilot). Right now I am a Cavalry Troop Commander. I have done everything I have wanted to do, and never been thrown a big curve ball by the army.

blembiggity- how long you been in the ROK? I am just 20 minutes away at Camp Humphrey's. That one gate in, one gate out stuff is getting old at Osan. Last April I put together a paintball game near Wonju (Camp Eagle) using the paintball equip from Osan. We air assaulted about 60 people in on two CH47s and played for 1/2 a day in an abandonned farming village. I think the two USAF guys who came along to manage the equipment have PCS'd since then. You need to get some Army types to work the paintball field so it doesn't close as soon as you can see your breath when you walk outside ;) . OB ain't bad, but I usually pay the extra 500 Won for the good old Red White and Blue from St Louis, MO! There is a guy down at Kunsan who uses the screen name edwierd here on the board. Give me a hollar' if you hear of any games.

[shartley]

I served my country in the Army...

Officers Organize and Direct... NCOs LEAD. (for the most part... pilots are a bit different ;))

[Deadeye]

Singapore Field Combat Engineers, 30th [Active], 321 [Reserves]. E5, Section Leader.

I do; Combat Bridging [Mechanized and Non], Sapper work [Breaching, Wire Obs, Minefields, etc], Demolitions, Field Fortfications, etc...

Speaking of which, that's no problem that can't be solved with the right paperwork and enough C4... ;)

[JJBrookshire]

That's Armyeze for being currently an E-6 (Staff Sergeant) Airborne Qualified Career Counselor, former Counter Intelligence Agent, Army Reserve Recruiter, Court Reporter and Legal NCO (instructor qualified). How's that for a list? I've been either active duty or a reservist since I was 17 (19 years ago).

My advice is to first establish a career goal, whether military or civilian and then work at determining which branch of the service offers the best program for you and will guarantee IN WRITING that you will have the opportunity get what you want. You should look out for clauses that say things like "career field". There are some "contracts" that imply that you are guaranteed a particular job skill but in reality is only guaranteeing one of several "related" jobs. For example I've seen one recruit promised a job as an "Air Traffic Controller". He pictured himself in a tower looking at the "scope" and developing a skill that was well paid for in the civilian world. Instead he was given two flashlights and a good set of hearing protection... You get the idea.

Overall I've found that since the Army/Army Reserve/Army National Guard makes up nearly half of the Department of Defense they tend to have the most opportunities for those with the most qualifications. You are more able to determine your own career progression without running into the problems other services often have due to lack of "slots" for advancement and training opportunities.

Enjoy your time at Clemson. As someone who still considers Greenville, SC my hometown, I know there are plenty of opportunties for fun around Clemson.

[chadcummings]

Originally posted by shartley
I served my country in the Army...

Officers Organize and Direct... NCOs LEAD. (for the most part... pilots are a bit different ;))


thats a pretty open statement. Evidently you weren't combat arms. When it comes to garrison, I agree my NCO's are the best at training the men, but when it comes to the field, that is my arena.

I direct the movement of my armor company...not my NCO's.

I plan the attacks and lead the way...not my NCO's.

Chad

[Snappy]

I'm an Army ROTC cadet. I'm really enjoying it, although at times I think about leaving the "brute force and ignorance" for the Air Force and Space Command, but as of now I'm mostly happy. I've got to get my priorities straight and see what I really want to be doing, but I think that I'll be ending up going with Signal Corps or Armor or I may get the itch to fly helicopters again. I don't have to decide yet, so I'm focused on being the best Cadet here. My dad was Air Force, and a lot of my friends are going that way. I have a few that went jarhead (Marine), but I don't give them too much grief for that. I do think they have some really slick uniforms. Of course, nothing can beat a Stetson with blues. Whatever I end up doing, I want to be in First Cav in Texas. I wouldn't mind Colorado or Nebraska, because I want to get my masters from another Big 12 school while in the Army.

[shartley]

chadcummings
Sorry for the "open statement"... I guess I should clarify a bit more.

I am also sorry for any misleading that was done... I WAS, in fact, Combat arms. ;) My statement was aimed at the OVERALL jobs of the two... and even by your own admission....
I direct the movement of my armor company...not my NCO's. and I said...
Officers Organize and Direct... NCOs LEAD.And you follow up about leading....
I plan the attacks and lead the way...not my NCO's.

This is true, but a bit misleading as well. How so? ....

You made an interesting statement...
When it comes to garrison, I agree my NCO's are the best at training the men, but when it comes to the field, that is my arena.Well, my question would be, what are the time comparisons? Who trains them and tests them in CTT, and other Unit and MOS related tasks? And what about all actions in the Field minus actual Battle Movements? Who is directly in charge of that? Do you not consider that "leading"? And do you think you could do your job in "your arena", if your troops were not trained? Interesting paradox isn't it?

It seems you forget that the NCO's ARE the backbone of the Army and without them you would not be able to do your job at all.... but I have never seen the opposite be true, where NCO's could not do their jobs without the aid of Officers. NCO's seem to do quite alright without Officers. ;)

I think you are missing a very important part of the picture... your troops follow you in battle, yes.... but that is because you are then placed in the position of Authority. But so is a stop sign when on the road, and they obey them as well (or should.. LOL). Your NCO's are the ONLY thing allowing you to do your job, and they truly LEAD your troops on a daily basis. What do you do... on a daily basis?

This is not meant as an attack, but it seems that you fail to view your position from a realistic angle. Your troops do their jobs, train, and live their lives directly under the leadership of their (and YOUR) NCO's... not you. They do almost their entire service without you guiding them directly at all, and then you hop into your Tank crewed by your Troops and the NCO's that trained them. Another interesting thing to think about.

You can have an effective unit with a bad Commander (seen it many times) but good NCO's, but you CAN'T the other way around. Simply put, Troops are directly lead by NCO's from the time they enter service until they leave it, or become NCO's themselves.

So, it seems you made the same mistake I did...
thats a pretty open statement ;)

:D:D:D

[X-Plosive]

Interesting, that was very educational.

[chadcummings]

I agree with the daily basis part as well as it is the NCO's that train and develop them into NCO's themselves. But when it comes to combat and field environment, NOTHING is done without MY directing it to be done. When I direct WHITE element to move, that element is LEAD by an officer. The NCO's do not just do their own thing. They do not give platoon or company fire commands, they give their own tank it's fire command. The officer over that platoon or company gives the fire command for that entire element.

I was once an NCO, I knew my boundaries then as well as now. During garrison activities all I do is ensure the training is conducted to standard by the NCO's plus a few ash and trash things. They are training, not leading.

Armor is a community that is a different beast from every other branch in the military. It is one of the few areas in the military that you will find officers even down in the grease with the men repairing their horse(a good officer that is).

I also agree that we come and go while the NCO's are the backbone that sustains the unit. But when it comes to the field, nothing is done without the leadership of an officer. When an armor element moves out, who is the lead element by doctarine except where METTT dictates...the officer. When engaging the enemy, who issues the fire command to the element...the officer. Who formulates courses of action and acts upon them...the officer.

***I am not upset...I think we are both tap dancing around the same ideas just not wording it quite the same way.

A unit will survive, yes, without it's officers. But it is the leadership of the officers that allow the NCO's to direct the men who fall under them. The only time that an NCO leads in the field is his own section of two tanks and that is still under the guidance of the officer over him. The platoon leader is the one that directly leads his section when bounding or when giving fire commands and the NCO that is his wingman does nothing but fights his tank.

[shartley]

chadcummings

Very interesting response... Got some holes in it.. and big ones at that. I see how you think though, and that is fine. Although I have to admit you do have a bit of a warped idea of how things actually are. ;)

But I AM confused on a couple other things....

You used to be an NCO? And now you are the Commanding Officer of an Armor Company? At 29? Great JOB!

But I thought you were a Network Design Engineer... that is what your Profile says you are?

Sounds to me like you have done a lot of reading and role playing games? But YOUR Army and the Army I was in seem like totally different places. ;)

[chadcummings]

Lets see....

Enlisted between my junior and senior years of HS, went to basic at Ft Benning in 1991. 18 months active duty..out with a back injury which I had waived to go in the NG.

Went to college to become an engineer, electrical engineer at that. I have also become MCSE certified as well since working in the civilian market, which I can give you MS certification number if that is not enough. All the while still in the National guard.

Attended PLDC at Ft Indiantown Gap during the summer of 1994.

Finished college and got my commission...hmm..July 26, 1996 to be exact. Was promoted ahead of my peers to the rank of CPT 6 months ago.

Role playing, I think not.

[shartley]

Look... I don't mind arguing points, but at least get YOUR information straight.... Read your last post... Now read THIS...

I am a Army Armor officer. I have been in the service for over 10 years 5 of which I was enlisted. I was an infantryman as enlisted and an armor officer now. I command a company of tanks. There is no greater feeling than what you will feel in combat arms.

You were released from active duty because of a back injury, but it was not bad enough to keep you from being in the NG? Confusing.

And your profile says you are a Network Design Engineer, NOT an Officer in the ANG. Also your AIM Handle is SgtBnny... why would an OFFICER use Sgt anything?

And now that I look, you changed your post to add the part about being promoted ahead of your peers? That was not there before....

And even if this is true... lots of command experience you have with only 6 months in rank. ;)

Again, I am SO confused... and only by reading what information YOU provide. I think I will drop this before it gets out of hand.

[chadcummings]

You know...I am sick of your doubts. I was unable to perform at the status I was in. I opted to get out on a medical, and if you were in the military you would know that you can do that. SgtBnny is a nickname I have had since college when all I wanted to do was had sex.


Gee...I never claimed to have inordinate amount of years of command experience over a company. I have held a platoon for 4 years.

And adding parts...yes, you torqued me off and it's hard to keep a smooth thought with some arogant person as yourself.

So..at last we can agree. Drop it.

[JJBrookshire]

The US military is an outstanding example of an organization that encourages individual growth and self-improvement. The secret to our success of the past 2 centuries has been our realization that you do not need to be the man with the most rank to get the job done, but simply the one with the most drive and leadership. This is why in combat situations, there have been examples of Lieutenants successfully leading Brigades and Corporals leading Companies when attrition took a heavy toll on those in command. Few other nation's armed services educate "down" the chain of command as far as we do and thus nurture individual leadership skills. This is a key to our success today even in Afghanistan. By targeting the leadership of the Taliban and Al Queda we have not only taken away their leaders but destroyed their will to resist. If this were ever done (and it has been done on a small scale in many battles) to the US military the next in line would step up to continue to lead towards accomplishing the mission at hand.

[shartley]

chadcummings
I wrote:
But YOUR Army and the Army I was in seem like totally different places.
That is quite evident at this point. They ARE different... one is RA the other is NG.

You stated:
Gee...I never claimed to have inordinate amount of years of command experience over a company. I have held a platoon for 4 years. When actually your posts sounded an awful lot like you were infering great time in the leadership seat. I am truly sorry for mistaking the writings of an inexperienced Officer as those of a seasoned one. I admit I should not have. Sorry.


And adding parts...yes, you torqued me off and it's hard to keep a smooth thought with some arogant person as yourself. I am sorry for this as well. It will not happen again. I did not think I was being arrogant, but pointing out things that did not make sense to me. And I hope that you never encounter an arrogant enemy on the battlefield, we would not want to make it hard to keep a smooth thought.... being you are Leading so many of our young men without the aid of NCOs.


So..at last we can agree. Drop it.Well there you have it. ;)

JJBrookshire
Very true. Well said.

[chadcummings]

I use my NCO's very well. Having over 4 years in leadership positions, I have had many NCO's mentor and teach me.

And as for inexperience, I think not. I have recived the Division top gun award as well as twice receiving the BN top platoon award for maneuver. I have decorated several times with both the AAM and ARCOM. I have also performed with high marks when evaluated at NTC when my BN went through it's cycle a year ago.

Inexperience, no.

[shartley]

Look, you don't need to convince ME. What does it matter?

Why do you feel the need to impress me with Awards that I had several over myself by the time I hit my 4 year mark... as well as being submitted for the Soldier's Medal(no easy task even to be submitted for). But that does not define ME as a Man or how I was as a Soldier or NCO.

You have TRAINING experience, and do not even live the life day to day. This does not diminish your value to our great nation, or the skills you may posses... but it is NOT the same as being Active Duty, OR having "real world" experience.

You label me as arrogant, yet dismiss your NCO's as pawns in your mighty game of Leadership. NOTHING moves without you directing it to do so. I am sorry my friend, that is not true. I will not however, get into the realities of NG vs RA, and training vs real combat.

I openly apologize for upsetting you. That was not my original intent, nor was it ever. We clearly see things much differently, and that is okay.... We have both helped assure all Americans that right. :)


And again.... what does it really matter what I think? ;) This is a Forum, and it is words.... typed out by people who have NO influence on eachother's lives. I will go off and kiss my children goodnight, and climb into bed with my Wife. And you will do whatever it is that you do at the end of each day. Nothing will have changed.

Truce?

[chadcummings]

Truce.

I must say though...you do remind me of a crusty old E8 that use to chew on me alot. :)

So...you played much paintball lately?

[shartley]

Heck.. I WISH! I have been too busy. And December is usually a slow month (end of company's fiscal budgets)... not this year. I have too many projects going on to get out on a field.... I have been doing the "business" side of paintball.

I hope to have more time in the spring... We will see. :)

[chadcummings]

I use to not have any time to play but since I got married, my wife throws me out of the house every weekend becuase she is sick of me.

I told her she needs to play...to releive stress, I didn't tell her who's though.

[sajohnston]

I have four platoons, only one platoon leader per MTOE and although I am authorized an XO I don't have one right now. I feel like the true test of my leadership is how my troops and NCOs perform when I am not around. If they have a clear mission and intent I want them to aggressively take charge and make decisions. I want them to know that honest mistakes are ok, lazy ones are not.

I firmly believe wars are fought and won at the squad/platoon/company level. I count on my NCOs to train, plan and execute; I am there to provide guidance, the standard we train to and FILTER all the stuff that rolls down hill (to allow my troops to do their jobs without distractions).

Chadcummings- my family has a farm/cabin in the Canaan Valley. Is this close to where you are?

[wireman]

I was a electrical/environmental systems tech. on fighter aircraft. I got shipped to the Philippines right after tech. school and worked on F4's. I only served 18 months because after I left the Philippines because of the volcano explosion they offered us the option of an early out. It was a great experience. I reccomend the Air Force because they have the best food and conditions!