What happened to AO?

[WARPED1]

I'm not complaining at all, just pointing out fact. But AO used to be a great forum with many posters with vast knowlege of more than just mags on paintball. Now it has become worse than PBNation. Express your opinion, get flamed to death. Ask a question and you're told to not be stupid and use a search, or you get called a noob for asking such a stupid question. AO did keep its B/S/T reputation intact. I'm not comfortable trading anywhere else(except www.shockerowners.com where I supermod, great guys over there.)
Also in the past 3 days, the front page has not had any useful posts that can teach you a thing or two about the game. Instead posts like what anno or what jersey should I get are prominant. Form your own opinion! AO says it's full of people who don't follow trends, that's why the mag has barely changed in 15 years, but everyones asking essentially how to fit in type questions.
I pretty much only come to AO for novelty anymore. The vast group of intelligent posters, like gibby, have stopped coming. I often say "let's see what the idiots are complaining about today" before I visit AO.
Tell me, did the average IQ drop when the average age dropped well below 20? Or is it that Tom is no longer in control, so you're all rebelling?
Well, before a certain mod bans me for this post because all I did throughout it is trash mags :rolleyes: I'll say goodbye.
Oh by the way mags DO NOT suck and I AM NOT trashing them. I'm allowed to have my opinions. It's a fine marker, just not my cup of tea.

[Automaggot68]

The Answer is Yes.




We would have also accepted Atlanta,Georgia.

Also. You're really bitter about that Mag thing, arent you?
I've never seen you bash mags, only that you're always defensive regarding your opinion.

[rkjunior303]

http://www.topiclink.com/gameshows/images/alextrebek.jpg

Ohh, we're going to have to go to the judges on that one.....

[mag88888]

Wow you said that well. I know my join date is 2004 but I was on AO before that, reading articles and learning stuff. I've watched AO slowly fade away. I know how you feel, even a few years ago it was ok but now as you said more posts are based on "what jersey should i get?" then actual information. And yet AO pleads they are not about trends. Maybe if people would just come down and respect other opinions and what they have to say, then just maybe would it get a little better. But until then I might be looking for another forum.

[BigEvil]

Good post Warpped, ang QFT. I think there are alot of AOers lurking around Thordics forums nowadays.

It seemed like there was a 'turnover' in the people posting. Lot of old guys left, some new ones came in. (I think I was somewhere in the middle)

I hear what you are saying about "Useful posts". All-in-all, AO still isnt bad for a place that supports a company that hasnt put out anything new in about a decade. :-) (ok im exagerating)

Best solution to this issue? lead by example. I try to (although I do not always set a good example)

[Automaggot68]

it was ok but now as you said more posts are based on "what jersey should i get?" then actual information. And yet AO pleads they are not about trends. .


Actually, i think the last Jersey post was more about seeing what other jerseys were on the market.

[zaqwert6]

AO and the Mag have been around for a long time, they aren't going anyhere anytime soon.


http://www.dafni.com/dinosaur/Extinct1.jpg

[WARPED1]

AO and the Mag have been around for a long time, they aren't going anyhere anytime soon.


http://www.dafni.com/dinosaur/Extinct1.jpg
This wasn't about that at all, it was about how AO has degenerated into nothing more than a flame fest. Theres already a few posts here that are borderline flames......... :rolleyes:

[sleepingbeauty]

Warped you were here when ao used to give stuff away, and everyone talked in chat rooms. I remember the good times, this forum used to be alot different than it is now. It was all about helping people and having fun. Now its all for buisness and no pleasure.

thanks-
Pat

[11 Bravo]

I think if you looked that most threads that are about what should I get are by new members. They are probably new to paintball and the forum and are searching for something to say in order to fit into the forum.

Like someone said lead by example or ignore it. You could always go on the thread and tell them not to fall for the hype.

[ntn4502]

The 'CORE' stopped posting....

[WARPED1]

I've never seen you bash mags, only that you're always defensive regarding your opinion.
I'm always defensive because whenever I express my opinion, even if it has nothing to do with a mag, a certain mod jumps down my throat and bans me for 3 days and says I have no rights. But he's wrong, I did the research. Because these forums are owned and run on US soil by a US company, my constitutional rights are intact. He said because this was a private forum, I had no rights. He was wrong. I thought it was a bit fishy, so I checked it out.

[BigEvil]

The 'CORE' stopped posting....

So who exactly is the "core"?

[shartley]

So who exactly is the "core"?
That is a good question and the answer you will get will depend on who you ask and who they like. AO has indeed seen changes though, that is for sure. And not all of those changes were caused by new members or younger members.

[zaqwert6]

This wasn't about that at all, it was about how AO has degenerated into nothing more than a flame fest. Theres already a few posts here that are borderline flames......... :rolleyes:


Hmm...my bad. I thought it was about the old AO as we know it falling to extinction.

[BigEvil]

That is a good question and the answer you will get will depend on who you ask and who they like. AO has indeed seen changes though, that is for sure. And not all of those changes were caused by new members or younger members.


I see what you are saying....

By definition though, if the "old" core is gone, doesnt that mean there is a "new" core to take its place?" (I feel like we are talking about an episode of Star Trek)

[shartley]

I see what you are saying....

By definition though, if the "old" core is gone, doesnt that mean there is a "new" core to take its place?" (I feel like we are talking about an episode of Star Trek)
You are very correct.

[BD_Paintball]

I see what you are saying....

By definition though, if the "old" core is gone, doesnt that mean there is a "new" core to take its place?" (I feel like we are talking about an episode of Star Trek)
That what I was thinking. I think I caught the end of the "old" core leaving or when they started to post less when I joined and I am sure there were some new people joining back in the day that would post stupid stuff but not as much as now. I just don’t look at the posts that don’t sound interesting or helpful to the forum. i feel that there will always be people who flame other members but we just have to ignore then and go on.

[Dayspring]

The 'CORE' stopped posting....

QFT.

[SCpoloRicker]

I'm always defensive because whenever I express my opinion, even if it has nothing to do with a mag, a certain mod jumps down my throat and bans me for 3 days and says I have no rights. But he's wrong, I did the research. Because these forums are owned and run on US soil by a US company, my constitutional rights are intact. He said because this was a private forum, I had no rights. He was wrong. I thought it was a bit fishy, so I checked it out.

What "constitutional rights" are you referring to, exactly?

/you aren't employed here...
//lame thread

[rkjunior303]

I'm always defensive because whenever I express my opinion, even if it has nothing to do with a mag, a certain mod jumps down my throat and bans me for 3 days and says I have no rights. But he's wrong, I did the research. Because these forums are owned and run on US soil by a US company, my constitutional rights are intact. He said because this was a private forum, I had no rights. He was wrong. I thought it was a bit fishy, so I checked it out.

What?

It's a private forum - it's a piece of 'property' owned by Airgun Designs, more importantly TOM. They allow you to post here amd they can REVOKE that privilidge at any time with or WITHOUT notice.

Why don't you STFU and learn what you're talking about, before you start running your mouth again.

/i didn't know you were a lawyer
//i'd ask for my money back from law school if i were you
///pork - the other white meat

[Automaggot68]

What?

It's a private forum - it's a piece of 'property' owned by Airgun Designs, more importantly TOM. They allow you to post here amd they can REVOKE that privilidge at any time with or WITHOUT notice.

Why don't you STFU and learn what you're talking about, before you start running your mouth again.

/i didn't know you were a lawyer
//i'd ask for my money back from law school if i were you
///pork - the other white meat


Rob : 1
Warped: 0

[FSU_Paintball]

Your constitutional rights do not extend to this private forum. You agree to rules when you join, and the mods are the ones that hold all the cards. If you don't like how things are handled you can always leave.

In other words, your *** is theirs while you're here.

[rkjunior303]

Rob : 1
Warped: 0

GOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAL!!

http://www.nhptv.org/product/hockey/score.jpg

[Lohman446]

Let's give this example of your "rights"

Walk into a store, a public store, and start defaming them, calling them cheats, etc. but not crossing a line into obscenity. Don't leave when they ask you, even though it is public. When you are arrested for trespassing, see how far the Constitutional rights theory gets you.

[phantomhitman]

its true, they own it and can do anything they want to do, period.

The core was based around 10-15 people that have been taken over by a new core. there has always been the trolls, flamers, smart butts, tech guys, noob helpers, and people that just like to throw in their 2 cents. They just have different names now, and some of the older member do not like them. Just because the old core left does not mean the new guys suck, they are jsut different. My only problem is that the ao forums are extremely biased against current trends and guns, but then again it is the ao forums so it makes sense.

I do not get mad at the people trying to lighten the mood (maggot, rk, and few others that know each other personally) but you guys are silly %100 of the time. Then suddenly you get serious about a post, which gets strange at some times. You guys help sometimes, flame sometimes, and just post funny stuff alot of the times. Make me laugh alot, but sometimes its bittersweet. I do not mind the back and forth flaming between anyone, its an internet forum, but its get stupid sometimes.

You have the people like rogue, tuna, coolhand, gadevil who support agd to the fullest and make custom products. They are teh best at the tech side of things as well as making you guns look great. I only wish these guys would branch out to other guns, but I understand why.

Then there are the guys that show up askign questions or just asking for advice. They have to turn off their computers bbefore they melt from the flames. People that have been around any forum knows that this happens regardless if you made a giant READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST sign on the front page. Just help them out and let them go....not that hard.


I know I can be an tool at times, but I only flame flamers......if that make sense. It doesnt help at all....but it helps the voices in my head.

[Automaggot68]

its true, they own it and can do anything they want to do, period.

The core was based around 10-15 people that have been taken over by a new core. there has always been the trolls, flamers, smart butts, tech guys, noob helpers, and people that just like to throw in their 2 cents. They just have different names now, and some of the older member do not like them. Just because the old core left does not mean the new guys suck, they are jsut different. My only problem is that the ao forums are extremely biased against current trends and guns, but then again it is the ao forums so it makes sense.

I do not get mad at the people trying to lighten the mood (maggot, rk, and few others that know each other personally) but you guys are silly %100 of the time. Then suddenly you get serious about a post, which gets strange at some times. You guys help sometimes, flame sometimes, and just post funny stuff alot of the times. Make me laugh alot, but sometimes its bittersweet.

You have the people like rogue, tuna, coolhand, gadevil who support agd to the fullest and make custom products. They are teh best at the tech side of things as well as making you guns look great. I only wish these guys would branch out to other guns, but I understand why.

Then there are the guys that show up askign questions or just asking for advice. They have to turn off their computers bbefore they melt from the flames. People that have been around any forum knows that this happens regardless if you made a giant READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST sign on the front page. Just help them out and let them go....not that hard.


I know I can be an *** at times, but I only flame flamers......if that make sense. It doesnt help at all....but it helps the voices in my head.
http://www.eeb.uconn.edu/Courses/EEB271/Lentibulariaceae/butterworth.jpg

[rkjunior303]

its true, they own it and can do anything they want to do, period.

The core was based around 10-15 people that have been taken over by a new core. there has always been the trolls, flamers, smart butts, tech guys, noob helpers, and people that just like to throw in their 2 cents. They just have different names now, and some of the older member do not like them. Just because the old core left does not mean the new guys suck, they are jsut different. My only problem is that the ao forums are extremely biased against current trends and guns, but then again it is the ao forums so it makes sense.

I do not get mad at the people trying to lighten the mood (maggot, rk, and few others that know each other personally) but you guys are silly %100 of the time. Then suddenly you get serious about a post, which gets strange at some times. You guys help sometimes, flame sometimes, and just post funny stuff alot of the times. Make me laugh alot, but sometimes its bittersweet.

You have the people like rogue, tuna, coolhand, gadevil who support agd to the fullest and make custom products. They are teh best at the tech side of things as well as making you guns look great. I only wish these guys would branch out to other guns, but I understand why.

Then there are the guys that show up askign questions or just asking for advice. They have to turn off their computers bbefore they melt from the flames. People that have been around any forum knows that this happens regardless if you made a giant READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST sign on the front page. Just help them out and let them go....not that hard.


I know I can be an *** at times, but I only flame flamers......if that make sense. It doesnt help at all....but it helps the voices in my head.

http://www.lemonmeringue.com/images/im_menu/brunch/french-toast.jpg

/damn derek, that's just too weird. great minds DO think alike

[phantomhitman]

http://www.eeb.uconn.edu/Courses/EEB271/Lentibulariaceae/butterworth.jpg

wait, am i sweet or lite. or an old woman, or a pancake? crap, see this is what im talking about. i dont even know what im being called :cry:

[Automaggot68]

http://www.lemonmeringue.com/images/im_menu/brunch/french-toast.jpg

/damn derek, that's just too weird. great minds DO think alike

I don't know whether to think that was awesometastic, or to be scared as hell.

[phantomhitman]

http://www.lemonmeringue.com/images/im_menu/brunch/french-toast.jpg

/damn derek, that's just too weird. great minds DO think alike

you guys strike too soon. so am I breakfast, butter, or sweet. or cute, or just something you want to wake up with :nono:

[shartley]

Apple Enchilada Dessert

1 (21 oz) can of apple pie filling (cherry or peach works as well)
6 8 inch flour tortillas
1 tsp cinamon
1/3 cup margerine or butter
1/2 cup white sugar
1/2 cup packed brown sugar
1/2 cup water

Preheat oven to 350 degrees.
Spoon fruit evenly onto all tortillas. sprincke with cinnamon. Roll up tortillas and place seam side down on lightly greased 8X8 pan.

Bring margarine/butter, sugars, and water to a boil in a medium saucepan. Reduce heat and simmer, stirring constantly for 3 minutes. Pour sauce evenly over tortillas. Sprincle with cinnamon on top if desired. Bake in preheated oven for 20 minutes.

Take enchiladas out of pan and place on plates. You can spoon up the extra carmelized sauce from the pan and spread over enchiladas if you like. Then sprinkle enchiladas with powdered sugar.

EAT!!!!!!

mmmmmmmmmmmmm

Note: for folks who like apple pie, they will LOVE these. They are actually even better.

Now how about THEM apples?!?!!?!

;)

[Automaggot68]

Apple Enchilada Dessert

1 (21 oz) can of apple pie filling (cherry or peach works as well)
6 8 inch flour tortillas
1 tsp cinamon
1/3 cup margerine or butter
1/2 cup white sugar
1/2 cup packed brown sugar
1/2 cup water

Preheat oven to 350 degrees.
Spoon fruit evenly onto all tortillas. sprincke with cinnamon. Roll up tortillas and place seam side down on lightly greased 8X8 pan.

Bring margarine/butter, sugars, and water to a boil in a medium saucepan. Reduce heat and simmer, stirring constantly for 3 minutes. Pour sauce evenly over tortillas. Sprincle with cinnamon on top if desired. Bake in preheated oven for 20 minutes.

Take enchiladas out of pan and place on plates. You can spoon up the extra carmelized sauce from the pan and spread over enchiladas if you like. Then sprinkle enchiladas with powdered sugar.

EAT!!!!!!

mmmmmmmmmmmmm

Note: for folks who like apple pie, they will LOVE these. They are actually even better.

Now how about THEM apples?!?!!?!

;)


......I'm not even mad Sam, wow.

[slade]

I do not get mad at the people trying to lighten the mood (maggot, rk, and few others that know each other personally) but you guys are silly %100 of the time. Then suddenly you get serious about a post, which gets strange at some times. You guys help sometimes, flame sometimes, and just post funny stuff alot of the times. Make me laugh alot, but sometimes its bittersweet. I do not mind the back and forth flaming between anyone, its an internet forum, but its get stupid sometimes.
im sorry, did you actually expect an intelligible post from derek or rob after that?

/although i havent seen many posts like that from rob, actually.
//speaking of that, im disappointed in you, rob.
///definately redeemed for the emo photoshop though.

[Automaggot68]

im sorry, did you actually expect an intelligible post from derek or rob after that?

/although i havent seen many posts like that from rob, actually.
//speaking of that, im disappointed in you, rob.
///definately redeemed for the emo photoshop though.

Coming from someone who's indian name is 'Dresses in women's clothes' I dont think Rob has anything to worry about.

[Maghog]

I just looked up and down the board, and I saw a whole bunch of intelligent, interesting subject matter. So what if people ask about jerseys, or even spyders for that matter? It's a paintball forum, and there are a lot of new people here who want to discuss a variety of things. Don't like the topic? Don't read it.
I don't really understand this gripe at all, unless it's some kind of a vendetta against a mod, it doesn't have merit really. Show me a time period where AO was harmonious and peaceloving and I'm sure you can find a thread in that same time period from someone who is fed up with the whole scene.
AO is fine, and the mag is still fine...enough with the doomsday balogna already.
Dan@Triggernomics

[WARPED1]

What?

It's a private forum - it's a piece of 'property' owned by Airgun Designs, more importantly TOM. They allow you to post here amd they can REVOKE that privilidge at any time with or WITHOUT notice.

Why don't you STFU and learn what you're talking about, before you start running your mouth again.

/i didn't know you were a lawyer
//i'd ask for my money back from law school if i were you
///pork - the other white meat
No, because it is a US run server placed on US soil, my constitutional rights to free speech and such are in full effect. Stop being harsh, I wasn't posting to start a fight, I just wondered what happened to the intelligent posters, one of which you obviously aren't. And I'm not a lawyer, never claimed to be. Once again, members of AO(not a mod this time!) is putting words in my mouth.

Your constitutional rights do not extend to this private forum. You agree to rules when you join, and the mods are the ones that hold all the cards. If you don't like how things are handled you can always leave.

In other words, your *** is theirs while you're here.

Thing is, 9 times out of 10(once I gave in and flamed back) I never broke the rules. A certain mod was just upset because I struck a sore spot, sometimes the truth hurts. And because he didn't agree, he banned me.

[Lohman446]

No, because it is a US run server placed on US soil, my constitutional rights to free speech and such are in full effect. Stop being harsh, I wasn't posting to start a fight, I just wondered what happened to the intelligent posters, one of which you obviously aren't. And I'm not a lawyer, never claimed to be. Once again, members of AO(not a mod this time!) is putting words in my mouth.

But, even if this was not internet based, because it is private property (not public) you do not have all your rights. Because it is private property your presence is at the pleasure of the owner, and they have the right to modify anything you post here. Sure, your rights may be in effect, but your right to post here, or say whatever you wanted, doesn't exist in the first place on private property.

[phantomhitman]

its kind of like walking into someone elses house and calling them names, then while being thrown out telling the owner he is wrong because his house is on us soil.

[GT]

I'm not complaining at all, just pointing out fact. But AO used to be a great forum with many posters with vast knowlege of more than just mags on paintball. Now it has become worse than PBNation. Express your opinion, get flamed to death. Ask a question and you're told to not be stupid and use a search, or you get called a noob for asking such a stupid question.


Take a lookat this fine thread to see where AO is, or better yet look at the response I can muster with a few key topics. It is amazing how bent people are for the hate.


By definition though, if the "old" core is gone, doesnt that mean there is a "new" core to take its place?"

It's actually called the "old guard" and not "core."



I think there are alot of AOers lurking around Thordics forums nowadays.


It was intresting how his forums came about, rather how "AOers" joined. It seemed, atlest to me, that the forum experienced extreme growth after a mod v memeber pissing contest on AO. That isnt and ideal way to start your membership drive.


Rest assured, there are some new things in the mix and there will be a new forum online soon. This will be completly different than all others. Biggest change will be invite only. It will also be the only forum that will have a good portion of the "old guard" of AO posting, but keep this on the dl. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

[tsc]

No, because it is a US run server placed on US soil, my constitutional rights to free speech and such are in full effect. Stop being harsh, I wasn't posting to start a fight, I just wondered what happened to the intelligent posters, one of which you obviously aren't. And I'm not a lawyer, never claimed to be. Once again, members of AO(not a mod this time!) is putting words in my mouth.


Thing is, 9 times out of 10(once I gave in and flamed back) I never broke the rules. A certain mod was just upset because I struck a sore spot, sometimes the truth hurts. And because he didn't agree, he banned me.

Uhh....WHAT!?!

This is a US server run on someone's PRIVATE PROPERTY rented by a PRIVATE COMPANY from another PRIVATE COMPANY with THEIR MONEY for THEIR COMPANY.

It's a private forum like a private club. Why do you think Augusta gets away with now allowing women? It's a private club.

In fact, in order to ACCESS this website, you are purchasing bandwith from ANOTHER private company, and you must go through THEIR servers-- and they have a code of conduct. Many of them don't allow hosting of, say, 'offensive' images on their ISP provided webhosting-- Is it in your constitutional right to violate this and host porn pics on this server space?

GT: What makes you think that 1) This forum exists or will exist or 2) The "old guard" of AO will want to post there? The vast majority of us have been lambasted and flamed for posting as we have been for years, and have all but given up on the forums.

Somehow, we had no problems posting here for, oh, three or four years, then the new crop of members came in and we are suddenly the big ole meanie pariahs that poke fun at the little chillens. I just don't get it.

Edit: Never broke the rules? I remember you making another account when you were banned and MENTIONING you were warped1 in a post-- And, funny, I never saw you banned for that.
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=178773&highlight=warped1

http://www.automags.org/forums/search.php?searchid=601064
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9121/warped13kz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[SCpoloRicker]

WARPED1: wrong. Just wrong. You don't understand what 'rights' are, and you also don't understand how the right to free speech is interpreted.

GT: The thorde was originally mainly NJers, and yes, some of the West Coast guys ended up there during the recent 'unpleasantness.' Lets not drag that horse out again.

/we've got mods as members, too
//edit: too late for the horse

[GT]

GT: What makes you think that 1) This forum exists or will exist

Lets just say that I have intmate knowledge of the planning of the project, but the forum is not mine. In reality it has no ownership with exception to the ownership to the memebrship.


2) The "old guard" of AO will want to post there? The vast majority of us have been lambasted and flamed for posting as we have been for years, and have all but given up on the forums.

You will come, just as you have added to this post. You won't see members of the forum posting on AO or PBN asking for new members to come to the newer cooler forum. It will spread via word of mouth and with an invite in you inbox.

[Fred]

Hey!

How's it going?

Welcome to over a year ago!

:eek:

[GT]

GT: The thorde was originally mainly NJers, and yes, some of the West Coast guys ended up there during the recent 'unpleasantness.' Lets not drag that horse out again.



very true, I didnt want to get the horse out. Just wanted folks to get an idea of where thorums came from, still a good place to see the ol' skool peeps.

[tae]

That sounds good. I came here for information and all I find are pastry recipes :p

[tsc]

Lets just say that I have intmate knowledge of the planning of the project, but the forum is not mine. In reality it has no ownership with exception to the ownership to the memebrship.



You will come, just as you have added to this post. You won't see members of the forum posting on AO or PBN asking for new members to come to the newer cooler forum. It will spread via word of mouth and with an invite in you inbox.


Hahaha, yeah. There's defending myself and my friends that I've known for five years, and then there's a pseudo elitist circlejerk.

There shouldn't *HAVE* to be a separate forum. The old members have been posting the same way for years, and the rules have changed to coddle the new members who find issues with it. Internet with teeth is a good thing-- it keeps you in line.

[tae]

Teeth are good, I think thats what a more focused fourm would be. You dont need to exclude people, if you are getting agitated by someone you can simply ignore them.

[Steelrat]

This wasn't about that at all, it was about how AO has degenerated into nothing more than a flame fest. Theres already a few posts here that are borderline flames......... :rolleyes:

Check the Viking threat if you want to see flames.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/6305280762.01.LZZZZZZZ.gif

As for losing members, its sad. I see most of my old Norcal crew stopped posting. Its a normal part of forum evolution, but I do miss some of the people a lot.

Luckily, you still have me.

[Automaggot68]

Check the Viking threat if you want to see flames.


As for losing members, its sad. I see most of my old Norcal crew stopped posting. Its a normal part of forum evolution, but I do miss some of the people a lot.

Luckily, you still have me.


I wish Zak Was still around.

[Steelrat]

I wish Zak Was still around.

Maybe he'll be back, who knows. People move on, its just human nature. I gotta give that guy a call.

[Cryer]

...when people would reply to the first post of a multi-page thread.

whatever

So the other day, a friend of mine asked me if I still had my stuff. He want's for me to accompany him to a scenario game in the near future. I would honestly have to try really hard to remember the last time I played, or tell you when that was, and so I told him and appologized.

Though the conversation ended there, my thoughts did not. I've spent the last several days lost in reminiscence of the "good ole days" of which you speak. I remembered the times I had, and the people I met. I was involved in paintball for some time before I came to AO and bought a mag, but once I found this place, it became my sole contact with the world of paintball. The people whom I met at AO meets and events, in stark contrast to those whom I met at "real" tournaments, shared freely a comradery and kinship unequalled in our sport. I enjoyed meeting and hanging out with AOer's, I enjoyed conversing and joking with them here. So much so, that I eventually refused to participate in the sport unless it was with those whom I had met here. I had found the apex of sportsmanship and kinship in an otherwise very unsportsmanlike and ruthlessly competetive past-time.

But as with all good things... Something began to change. I can't pinpoint where, or because of whom (as if any one person--or any one group of people for that matter--could be shouldered with the blame for changing our world here :rolleyes: :confused: ), but one day, I noticed I spent more time and mental energy deciding which side of whose argument I agreed with than I did engaging in friendly and helpful conversation on these forums. And I noticed that I hadn't been alone--discussions, demeanors, and priorities had seemingly changed accross the board. I got fed up with lots of people for different reasons. (I amassed an ignore list that I'd wager is longer than anyone else's). I kept trying to focusing on the positive, but the positive was slipping through my fingers. Friends I had made began to stop posting as much, many ultimately (or suddenly as the case often was) left altogether.

Combined with other stressors in my life at the time, this caused me to reevaluated my commitment to paintball in general. I had come to hate the "world" of paintball because it seemed that the only thing people wanted to do was beat you (by anymeans necessary) and be really really really rediculously good-looking while beating you. And my freinds that offered my an alternative to that ego-fest were dissappearing.

So I sold my stuff, and evetually stop posting here.

So like I said, my friend asked me about this scenario game and it got me reminiscin' and all... so the last few days I've been trollin around here and the thorums, just trying to get a feel for what AO has become (I realise that the Thorums may not be the best source for the true character of AO, as most members there seem to be ever-so-slightly biased...:p ). To be honest, I feel like playing some old Hank Williams. People are insulting, Insults and flames are rampant, and I don't understand the jokes anymore (I'm with you Phantomhitman, WTF does syrup have to do with anything? I laugh because its random, and random is funny sometimes. but you guys are just being silly now. just silly.)

Warped1- I'll be honest with you. You are one of the many on my ignore list. And I don't remember why. :confused: Had I actually been logged in while trolling, I wouldn't have seen your post. Despite the differences I appearently held for you, I do agree with you on your point. AO has changed, and it makes me sad.


:sad:

And I still hate that damn banana smilie.

*shoutout to GT* :cheers:



I'm not complaining at all, just pointing out fact. But AO used to be a great forum with many posters with vast knowlege of more than just mags on paintball. Now it has become worse than PBNation. Express your opinion, get flamed to death. Ask a question and you're told to not be stupid and use a search, or you get called a noob for asking such a stupid question. AO did keep its B/S/T reputation intact. I'm not comfortable trading anywhere else(except www.shockerowners.com where I supermod, great guys over there.)
Also in the past 3 days, the front page has not had any useful posts that can teach you a thing or two about the game. Instead posts like what anno or what jersey should I get are prominant. Form your own opinion! AO says it's full of people who don't follow trends, that's why the mag has barely changed in 15 years, but everyones asking essentially how to fit in type questions.
I pretty much only come to AO for novelty anymore. The vast group of intelligent posters, like gibby, have stopped coming. I often say "let's see what the idiots are complaining about today" before I visit AO.
Tell me, did the average IQ drop when the average age dropped well below 20? Or is it that Tom is no longer in control, so you're all rebelling?
Well, before a certain mod bans me for this post because all I did throughout it is trash mags :rolleyes: I'll say goodbye.
Oh by the way mags DO NOT suck and I AM NOT trashing them. I'm allowed to have my opinions. It's a fine marker, just not my cup of tea.

[rkjunior303]

Holy CRAP! It' Cryer!

[rkjunior303]

Fact of the matter is... While this site is part of a public domain, the site is still owned and operated by Airgun Designs. They can say who and who can not be on this site, along with what content is allowed. AGD allows you to be a GUEST here and nothing more.

[Eatem Alive]

As for losing members, its sad. I see most of my old Norcal crew stopped posting. Its a normal part of forum evolution, but I do miss some of the people a lot.

Luckily, you still have me.

i miss you, ryan :(




:D

[FooTemps]

HOLY CRAP CRYER! i always loved your sigs.

But anyway, the old guard is long gone and so is the wang force. I've got to say that wang force has got to be the epitome of of the "cool kids" of AO. And with this cool kid era, I've got to say that the old guard was also at its best. The mods actively participated in conversations (both silly and serious), members discussed ideas that were fresh and not those mundane "can i buy this or that" or "how do we save mags" or "is agd dying" and the list could go on even further. (Sure, these conversations always existed, but not at the ratio that the forums have now) Another big contribution to the old guard was that Tom Kaye himself posted on these forums. As of now, AGD's participation in the mag community is rather diminutive at best. With this decline in contributing members, of course AO is going to go down the drain in quality.

examples of cool kid era:
Dream mag photochop contest
Beta release of SUPERBOLT
Development process of INTELLIFRAME
Xmag teasers
the round table discussion forum
multiple thread parties
wang force
pie

I mean, we don't even have interesting flame fests against postwhores anymore. (yeah man... wtf happened to mango and flamebo)

/Warped is a bad lawyer. he doesn't know his rights on this forum.
//Maybe he should have read the disclaimer before he checked "i agree"
///slashes are cool

[nippinout]

Full disclosure:
/me was never a member of da Wang Force.

I lurk more than post anymore. I think my posts died when #automags died.

In regards to Cryer, was that you in the Storm Trooper suit?

[WARPED1]

I make a comment earlier today about how there's no more constructive posts and everyone just resorts to flaming. Thank you for proving my point newer school AO'ers!

[Vex]

EDIT: Well, I had a picture, but it doesn't look like it wanted to play nicely... :cry:

[Lohman446]

I make a comment earlier today about how there's no more constructive posts and everyone just resorts to flaming. Thank you for proving my point newer school AO'ers!

I don't see the flaming. I think we all got softer skin and take everything that might be construed as against us as a flame, and turn things into flame fest, as a collective whole. I don't see anyone flaming you here.

[phantomhitman]

I've got to say that wang force has got to be the epitome of of the "cool kids" of AO.

first rule of being cool is to never call yourself cool.


I honestly believe the mods took alot of crap out of the forums that was posted (either flames or just silly useless info). You could actually read a thread and follow it, now its like playing a game of telephone. It could start out with "check out my new gun" and end with "would you like butter and syrup with your pancakes". Its all in fun but its gets old and very lame. I say bring back the dictator mods and let them clean up again. The mods were hypocritical alot (only problem I had with them) but they helped the forum out as a whole. It will piss off alot of people, then again those people are the ones acting stupid.

[BigEvil]

I wish Zak Was still around.

Yeah, what ever happend to Zak anyway?

[Crazy]

HOLY CRAP CRYER! i always loved your sigs.

But anyway, the old guard is long gone and so is the wang force. I've got to say that wang force has got to be the epitome of of the "cool kids" of AO. And with this cool kid era, I've got to say that the old guard was also at its best. The mods actively participated in conversations (both silly and serious), members discussed ideas that were fresh and not those mundane "can i buy this or that" or "how do we save mags" or "is agd dying" and the list could go on even further. (Sure, these conversations always existed, but not at the ratio that the forums have now) Another big contribution to the old guard was that Tom Kaye himself posted on these forums. As of now, AGD's participation in the mag community is rather diminutive at best. With this decline in contributing members, of course AO is going to go down the drain in quality.

examples of cool kid era:
Dream mag photochop contest
Beta release of SUPERBOLT
Development process of INTELLIFRAME
Xmag teasers
the round table discussion forum
multiple thread parties
wang force
pie

I mean, we don't even have interesting flame fests against postwhores anymore. (yeah man... wtf happened to mango and flamebo)

/Warped is a bad lawyer. he doesn't know his rights on this forum.
//Maybe he should have read the disclaimer before he checked "i agree"
///slashes are cool

mIRC too :(

[shartley]

I don't see the flaming. I think we all got softer skin and take everything that might be construed as against us as a flame, and turn things into flame fest, as a collective whole. I don't see anyone flaming you here.
There is indeed flaming in this thread. And it is typical. This has nothing to do with having soft skin or not. If you can’t address a disagreement without making a personal insult aimed at the person you disagree with, it is a flame. And it also shows a weak mind. Also “seeing” the flaming seems to be subject to whether folks like who is being flamed or not, or whether they agree with the flame or not.

And this goes for new members; be they young or old; as well as what is now being called the “old guard”.

Just look around, you will see threads disappear on a regular basis because of flaming. You will see good threads get closed because of flaming. And this is not a problem folks can blame squarely on the “new” members. And because of it, as well as taking AO issues into the real world and other forums, many of the quality members have reduced posting to a bare minimum or not at all. So folks can point fingers and blame whoever they want for things, but anyone with an ounce of honesty and open eyes can see things for what they really are.

There are no victims here though, aside from the forum itself. And that is the sad part.

[rkjunior303]

There are no victims here though, aside from the forum itself. And that is the sad part.

http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/LIF/LIF145/PDB09013.jpg

[Lohman446]

I hope noone expects any thread, anywhere, that involves the demographics that paintball does, to make it three pages without flaming. I looked back, there may be some flames here, but there minimal, and I took them as being less hostile and more humorous in tone.

As to what happened to AO: The changing demographics of paintball happened, and are reflected here.

[shartley]

I hope noone expects any thread, anywhere, that involves the demographics that paintball does, to make it three pages without flaming. I looked back, there may be some flames here, but there minimal, and I took them as being less hostile and more humorous in tone.

As to what happened to AO: The changing demographics of paintball happened, and are reflected here.
Such low standards? I know of at least two other paintball forums that can go far longer without flaming (most of the time)…. Because it is not allowed. So sorry, I do expect it, and know it can be done. (CPPA and MCB)

Falling back on demographics and ages for bad behavior is simply a copout. Folks will rise to the level you demand of them, and I don’t know a single demographic or age that is incapable of good behavior.

[Lohman446]

Such low standards? I know of at least two other paintball forums that can go far longer without flaming (most of the time)…. Because it is not allowed. So sorry, I do expect it, and know it can be done. (CPPA and MCB)

Falling back on demographics and ages for bad behavior is simply a copout. Folks will rise to the level you demand of them, and I don’t know a single demographic or age that is incapable of good behavior.

Demographics are not always age - have you seen the majority of paintball player's behaviour at events lately? And this is not speedball or woodsball, its both.

How do you expect, on a forum with open enrollment, mostly unmoderated (which AO seemed to indicate they want in the AO vs moderates debates of the past) to be different?

Its not a cop out, its a simple consideration of the difference of paintball today, and ten years ago.

Edit: of course you gave the counter examples, but you noted it as attributed to moderation... somehow moderation on AO does not go over well.

[shartley]

Demographics are not always age - have you seen the majority of paintball player's behaviour at events lately? And this is not speedball or woodsball, its both.

How do you expect, on a forum with open enrollment, mostly unmoderated (which AO seemed to indicate they want in the AO vs moderates debates of the past) to be different?

Its not a cop out, its a simple consideration of the difference of paintball today, and ten years ago.
I added age with demographics because the two seem to always be used as an excuse. And yes I have seen players’ behavior. Why is it that way? Because it is allowed to be so. I have been to fields thought that do NOT allow it, and it happens far less often as well as is taken care of immediately.

But you hit the nail on the head about moderation. The funny thing though is that both the CPPA and MCB have high standards and moderators who are not afraid to enforce them, but it is not needed most of the time. If you set the standards, enforce them, and everyone knows it, the chaff will soon blow away. So I actually don’t expect an unmoderated forum to be any different than we see here or even at PBN. What I am saying is that it still is no excuse because it does not have to be that way. Folks will far too often revert to the lowest common denominator, so simply do not allow it to happen.

You end up with a much better forum, and much better members.

The problem with AO is that in all honesty some of the membership simply don’t WANT it any different, no matter how much they like to act otherwise.

I am just pointing out that saying paintball players can’t act civilly, with maturity, and be polite is not accurate at all. Both for forums and for fields/events. I know they can. Just because you don’t SEE it often enough does not mean paintball players are hopeless and without class, or can’t be expected to hold themselves to higher standards…. because they can and do.
:cheers:

[phantomhitman]

The internet is a great mask for alot of people. I can say, without a doubt, that all of the idiots that do post here (from flamers, jokers, new gen haters, old school haters, tools, trolls, etc) DO NOT act like this at their paintball fields. They will do it online, and with their group of friends, but not even attempt to do it in real life especially around people that they do not know. Forums are a great tool for showing how ignorant a person really wants to act, but cannot for various reasons. It turns little idiots into super villans of the interweb and gives them a chance to act as stupid as allowed, which is an increasing problem.

Who are the moderators now come to think of it?

[Automaggot68]

Yeah, what ever happend to Zak anyway?

Actually, the people who know aren't supposed to say anything.

[SCpoloRicker]

*flames WARPED1*

Go to AO events, people.

[Automaggot68]

Warped1.

I think that part of the reason that AO's going downhill, is because of people like you that insist on complaining (read: bi******) about "the old days."
Change happens naturally.
If you hang on to what happened in the past, then the natural flow of it gets all messed up.
you have to enjoy what AO is NOW. Because it wont ever be what it was then.
I just think the more people complain about AO not being what it used to be and sucking, the more it starts to suck, because everyone is in a bad mood.
I don't think AO's that bad.
Oh yeah, flames. You're a lamesauce.

[FooTemps]

Warped1.

I think that part of the reason that AO's going downhill, is because of people like you that insist on complaining (read: bi******) about "the old days."
Change happens naturally.
If you hang on to what happened in the past, then the natural flow of it gets all messed up.
you have to enjoy what AO is NOW. Because it wont ever be what it was then.
I just think the more people complain about AO not being what it used to be and sucking, the more it starts to suck, because everyone is in a bad mood.
I don't think AO's that bad.
Oh yeah, flames. You're a lamesauce.

roffles, lamesauce

also, I wasn't calling myself a cool kid (even though i was part of wang force), I was just stating the existance of the cool kids.

[Automaggot68]

Warped1, why havent you addressed your circumvention of that ban?

[WARPED1]

Warped1.

I think that part of the reason that AO's going downhill, is because of people like you that insist on complaining (read: bi******) about "the old days."
Change happens naturally.
If you hang on to what happened in the past, then the natural flow of it gets all messed up.
you have to enjoy what AO is NOW. Because it wont ever be what it was then.
I just think the more people complain about AO not being what it used to be and sucking, the more it starts to suck, because everyone is in a bad mood.
I don't think AO's that bad.
Oh yeah, flames. You're a lamesauce.
WHAT?! In no way I'm complaining that things have changed in paintball. I love change! My point was soley about this place called AO which has gotten worse that PBNation. Posts there tend to get less flames. However, AO does have the best B/S/T place. Granted occasionally there are a few bad deals, but as a whole it'sd an awesome forum for B/S/T.
Change is not a bad thing, if it's a good change. But AO has changed for the worst. :(

[Automaggot68]

Warped1, why havent you addressed your circumvention of that ban?
Well?

[Automaggot68]

Warped1, why havent you addressed your circumvention of that ban?

.

[GT]

...

*shoutout to GT* :cheers:


Holy cow,
when was the last time I saw you? I think it was nearly three years ago at the last AO Tx Ball. Good to know you are still alive. James, what scarnerio are you guys thinking about?

aim= turb0minnow

[Automaggot68]

I still want an answer, WARPED1.

[Automaggot68]

I still want an answer, WARPED1.

Come on WARPED1.
For someone who got on me about 'no communication' you're posting everywhere but here and ignoring me.

[tsc]

mIRC too :(


irc.zirc.org:6667 #automags :)

It's back, in pog form!

[mobsterboy]

Come on WARPED1.
For someone who got on me about 'no communication' you're posting everywhere but here and ignoring me.
and this is SOOOO not pm material

AO is the way AO is because of what you stated in the first post. Something about "Express your opinion and get flamed to death", that, my dear friend, is the American way of liberal posting. Want it to change? Make ppl pay for their memberships. Not only will that deter banwangers who do nothing but make "asshat"s (quote from Army himself) of themselves, but payment will also secure good members who value their abilities to post. Now, here me out on this, in no way would the AO community grow because of this payment, so don't expect our forum to skyrocket, but it would be putting a good foot forward

[tsc]

I still want an answer, WARPED1.

Aaaah, that's why. Someone decided to delete my post and not tell me why. Thanks, mods!

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/3238/warped10tb.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Vegasmunky12 was posted under 3 times.

http://www.automags.org/forums/member.php?userid=25497

I don't care why you were banned, I don't care who did it, I Care why you weren't later permbanned for circumvention.

[Lohman446]

I think the downfall of AO happened when the rules got pushed to the edge, and no exception could be made. The mods, at the request of the members, pushed hard, and enforced the rules to a T. Sense then, those of the "old guard" that even come around, stay within the rules, but tend to post only for there own amusement. I find it funny, I find it amusing, but it is far less than helpful to any discussion when it happens.

[FooTemps]

I think the downfall of AO happened when the rules got pushed to the edge, and no exception could be made. The mods, at the request of the members, pushed hard, and enforced the rules to a T. Sense then, those of the "old guard" that even come around, stay within the rules, but tend to post only for there own amusement. I find it funny, I find it amusing, but it is far less than helpful to any discussion when it happens.

QFT

The old guard doesn't seem to care enough about AO anymore since they've been spamming this place to hell and back.

/spamming is fun
//too bad i dont' spam too much
///lawl slashes

[phantomhitman]

Old guard....that is so unbelievably false on so many levels. This is a made up group of loveable characters that everyone imagined make the forum run perfectly with no problems. There was once a bunch of knuckle heads with a some class (mainly respect) that got replaced with a bunch more knuckleheads with no class. All of the tech people are still here (mainly aftermarket parts sellers) and only the jokers left. While I have respect for Mr. Vetter, I think AO holds him high among the gods for no apparent reason. The older posters are gone, as will the current posters in a year or two. It is the cycle of just about every forum on the net.
The mods let the members slip into the comfort zone you see today.

[Target Practice]

Old guard....that is so unbelievably false on so many levels. This is a made up group of loveable characters that everyone imagined make the forum run perfectly with no problems. There was once a bunch of knuckle heads with a some class (mainly respect) that got replaced with a bunch more knuckleheads with no class. All of the tech people are still here (mainly aftermarket parts sellers) and only the jokers left. While I have respect for Mr. Vetter, I think AO holds him high among the gods for no apparent reason. The older posters are gone, as will the current posters in a year or two. It is the cycle of just about every forum on the net.
The mods let the members slip into the comfort zone you see today.

So, wait. Does this mean you side with the the incoherent little kiddies that make AO look like a forum full of failed Hooked On Phonics students? Because that is what the new influx is. That has become the standard, and who ever is with them is part of the problem.

I've been seeing stunningly appropriate custom user titles all over the place tonight. Huh.

[Lohman446]

Old guard....that is so unbelievably false on so many levels. This is a made up group of loveable characters that everyone imagined make the forum run perfectly with no problems. There was once a bunch of knuckle heads with a some class (mainly respect) that got replaced with a bunch more knuckleheads with no class. All of the tech people are still here (mainly aftermarket parts sellers) and only the jokers left. While I have respect for Mr. Vetter, I think AO holds him high among the gods for no apparent reason. The older posters are gone, as will the current posters in a year or two. It is the cycle of just about every forum on the net.
The mods let the members slip into the comfort zone you see today.

I can recall when many of the people who seem to post only for amusement, posted in the "great post of history" that were helpful and insightful. They were, to some degree, what AO was. Unfortunately AO has always been "cliquish" (sp) and when one of there "newer" members was banned, they took it personally. I hate to say this, because I agreed with the actions of the mods, but I always expected cooler heads would prevail given enough time. Thats been some time... and well, the mods have won, they drew the line. Now we see amusement posting by many members, never meant to be helpful. Sorry, it was a high price for the rules to win.

[phantomhitman]

So, wait. Does this mean you side with the the incoherent little kiddies that make AO look like a forum full of failed Hooked On Phonics students? Because that is what the new influx is. That has become the standard, and who ever is with them is part of the problem.

I've been seeing stunningly appropriate custom user titles all over the place tonight. Huh.

Cute last line.....jump on the wagon cause its full

And no, I do not like the totally ignorant posts as of lately. Its fine here and there, but the only part of a thread that makes sense anymore is the first post. After that it gets turned inside out and roasted. I am saying the mods should go back to complete control and warn, then ban, all of the idiotic memebers that cause the chaos that takes place. PBN is not as bad as poeple claim, but with the average age at around 15 you cannot expect much. Its like kids in the first year of sex ed, they are going to act goofy and retarded while claiming they know more than they actually do when in all actuality they are clueless. Wow....that was a big analogy....I have to take a break for now.

[Lohman446]

So, looking back on it, you would have disagreed with those actions given what you know now?

In hindsight, it cost us a great deal of the "brain trust" of AO. I don't blame everything on it, but it was a time that I can point to that contributed to today. At the time, it was the appropriate action, we were fighting the influx of... well, I should say we were fighting the degeneration of AO at the time. There were some examples made, and the mods, charged with fully enforcing the rules, did not have a lot of choice. They did what was right AT THE TIME. I would still support it, at the time, but would like to think that perhaps its time to reconsider, not as the mods actions as unjust, but as time to move on, and let the past be the past, and perhaps forgive those involved.

The action, was not worth the cost. They were right at the time, I question if stickign to that decision now, is right.

[phantomhitman]

I can recall when many of the people who seem to post only for amusement, posted in the "great post of history" that were helpful and insightful. They were, to some degree, what AO was.

exactly what i said and think (except i called them all knuckleheads)
There is definately still groups of people with the most known being completely full of bs. Just as we both said they do nothing that helps anyone in anyway. Its like they are measuring e-penis' with each other to see who is cooler by seeing who can post the most retarded, off topic, off the wall crap they can muster up.

[Steelrat]

i miss you, ryan :(




:D

Corey, my man! I sure do miss you guys out there. Seems like the old gang has just kinda moved on :(

AND I heard about VT closing down, major bummer :cry:

[Steelrat]

I hate to say this, because I agreed with the actions of the mods, but I always expected cooler heads would prevail given enough time. Thats been some time... and well, the mods have won, they drew the line.

It was, and always will be, a perfect example of over reaction by the mods. Notice how myself and Ricker are really the last of the NorCal group from those days still actively participating in the forum? Ever wonder why that is?

[spacedtedybear]

It was, and always will be, a perfect example of over reaction by the mods. Notice how myself and Ricker are really the last of the NorCal group from those days still actively participating in the forum? Ever wonder why that is?
Because some of us are still in school, trying to earn a degree that will someday land us a job that does not require flipping of burgers. :D Personally, not much has been happening here that has been really worthwhile to respond to. Every forum has it's ups and downs. I guess this is one of those down times.

P.S I would have made some comment about your mom, but *sniff* :cry: it's just not the same.

[Lohman446]

It was, and always will be, a perfect example of over reaction by the mods. Notice how myself and Ricker are really the last of the NorCal group from those days still actively participating in the forum? Ever wonder why that is?

It wasn't an overreaction, it was enforcing the rules... It was what AO wanted, was a super moderated forum so that everything stayed on track, sterile and boring... You're not going to find me calling the original action wrong... it was just costly.

[Steelrat]

It wasn't an overreaction, it was enforcing the rules... It was what AO wanted, was a super moderated forum so that everything stayed on track, sterile and boring... You're not going to find me calling the original action wrong... it was just costly.

Do you even know what happened? The whole genesis of the blowout was the fact that a mod was violating a rule and getting away with it, whereas one of the Norcal group got banned for a rules violation. It might just be me, but in my book, I'd label that as "wrong."

I do agree with you about it being costly, though. There norcal group was full of mag fans before the blowout. I don't know how connected it was to the blowout, but a lot of them dumped their mags afterwards, including one of the biggest mag fans of them all, Z-man. Not only that, but most of them have since stopped posting.

[Target Practice]

Do you even know what happened?

Unfortunately, this is one of the major problems. The vast majority of people assume they know more then they actually do, and they feel that they are able to make judgements on what they "know" to be true.

Only a few actually know what happend, but nobody wants to believe what went on, so they just hear what they want to hear.

Edit: I'm also refering to the events that transpired in March.

[Lohman446]

I have an idea what happened... without having 100% of the story. And I do not put the blame on one group or the other, I understand that there was an ongoing issue between many of the people involved.

Let me say this SteelRat, I know more than you are giving me credit for, maybe not everything. I don't have a way to justify the actions of everyone involved around it...

I agreed with the action as it was taken at the time it was taken, it was almost a get control of the situtation. I even agreed with upholding it for some time to simmer things down, even though it seemed a heavy handed way of doing so.

It did, we got rid of the controversy, we lost a lot of people who were very valuable to do it, and in the end, AO was less of a place. Those that stayed, seem to have quit trying to make it a better place and concentrated on amusement. I don't blame anyone for it. The sad thing is, I think that it was shortsighted... not that I really think anyone could have seen the cost. In the end, it cost to much... the mods regained control, and then we went to a less moderated forum. The mods barely participate anymore...

Perhaps one of the answers is moer active moderators, I have no idea what it is anymore. But things surely are not getting better, and even bringing back LPB would not fix the situation. I don't know how interlocked the different groups are... but things have not gotten better since then.

[GT]

....and in reality everyone loses.


:cry:

Its time..............

[WicKeD_WaYz]

Your right.

I miss the old AO....

[shartley]

I don’t really now what to say. I read the comments and it is clear that most are skewed by personal feelings and where they stood in terms of relationships in everything when each issue happened. From what I saw, in any of the situations mentioned above, no one was without fault…. except those who chose to leave because of the garbage happening but were not involved.

The way I see it is that everything was caused by a power struggle (as mentioned by other members), but not just between moderators and members, but it went beyond that. There were moderator problems, member problems, cliques, and mixing of “teams” (moderators AND cliques). It got VERY bad and unfortunately the majority of the membership don’t know exactly HOW bad it got. AO does not need it all rehashed though, since there were a few soap operas going on at the same time…. none of which were needed, nor warranted.

What we now see on AO is simply the wake of past happenings. And for any of the “old guard” to act victimized by either the moderators (who were also part of the old guard) is silly. I will also point out though that the “old guard” consisted of more than what it looks like it did by reading this thread. Some folks seem to confuse the “old guard” with one clique or another. But it actually consisted of a few cliques and a few outside those cliques for one reason or another.

And to talk about rules enforcement or non-enforcement is also silly. The whole thing was/is pathetic, and what used to be a forum that was by itself above others online has turned into something far less, and far worse. How many of the “old guard” keep getting bans for their actions and seem to do little but troll here on AO and then gloat among their friends about it? Yet they are still here. They are still allowed back, time and time and time again.

But we see folks getting indignant about a ban circumvention? We see folks act like the “kiddies” are the real problem with AO? AO has many problems, don’t kid ourselves about it.

Now with all that said, am I saying AO is doomed? NO.

Am I saying AO is not worth posting on? NO.

But every time these issues are brought back up it just opens old wounds and solves nothing. And in fact people’s memories of things get clouded by personal feelings and how they wanted things to have been, either so they were the victor or they were victimized (and some folks actually prefer to be the victim it seems). Folks want to act like everyone but themselves is/was at fault or that someone is getting off better than someone else. People need to let it go. What was done can not be undone. And from now on we can only deal with what we do or don’t do.

So that is what happened to AO. And that is where we are at this point. There is a lot of bad blood floating in the veins of AO. And a lot of harm was done to members and staff, BY members and staff. Folks need to be totally honest about it, and then get on with life. Some of us have….. now the rest need to follow.

[Maghog]

Has anyone else noticed that Warped1 is posting all kinds of new threads to follow up on this one. It's as though he's looking to prove a point by getting flamed for something so he can say, "I told you so." I can't see any other motive behind his posts.
He started this thread complaining about posts lacking substance, then he goes asking "What's your favorite company?" or, "What's your favorite gun?" and so on as if that's never been asked before. Seems odd to be falling victim to your own rant no?
Looking through this thread, I see a lot of people with multiple thousands of posts under their belt, a lot of irritation and disgust. There is such a thing as "burn out" you know, and it looks like it's getting contageous.
Sure AO has different people participating now as compared to a few years ago, and in another two years it will be different again. Hell, I wish paintball never entered the speedball arena and would have stayed in the woods, but even if I don't like the change, I'm accepting it. Paintball is always evolving, and the 15 year olds of today will be 30 tomorrow, complaining about how things used to be on the field as well as the forums.
One thing is for certain, if the animosity keeps growing as it has been, then we're all just going to be grumpy and ignorant some day. I suppose it's a reflection of the way the industry has come to treat the customer base: cold and distant.
My consolation is knowing that when I go out in the woods with the same friends that I did 15 years ago, paintball is still the same.

[Lohman446]

So that is what happened to AO. And that is where we are at this point. There is a lot of bad blood floating in the veins of AO. And a lot of harm was done to members and staff, BY members and staff. Folks need to be totally honest about it, and then get on with life. Some of us have….. now the rest need to follow.

To some point I agree. We were floating around in a happily semi-moderated enviromnent, and yes, rules got broken here and there and were overlooked. Paintball talk held interesting topics of discussion, and the "for amusement only" posts tended to stay in Friendly Corner. Its important to note though, at that point, we beleived something was wrong, and were trying to fix it. A decision seems to have been made to enforce the rules more clearly and yes, I realize there was an ongoing feud.

Unfortunately enforcement of those rules, in a situation where there was already animosity held between various groups and individuals, caused all sorts of... issues where some people felt the rules where enforced differently towards them, or there clique, and towards others. Now, I see boths sides of the argument here - I have seen the examples, and I beleive that there may have been a different interpertation of the rules applied based on the individual they were applied to. I don't know that either side was in the wrong in there actions and reactions.

Regardless, it left AO less than it was before because of it. We are back to a semi-moderated state where the mods seem only present in the worst cases of problems by members (except scamming and spamming where they can act instantly without consideration). It seems we are back to semi-moderation and moderation dependent on the individuals involved. This is not a slight towards the moderators at all, they act as they see best, and while I may not always agree, as has been noted, I also do not have all the access to the information they do. There is no attempt here to make AO a lesser place. I don't think I would like an AO that was strictly moderated with no consideration of the individuals involved. I think a lot of people made that decision themselves a long time ago.

Many people simply no longer care if they are banned or not. Well they don't blatantly disregard any rule they (and I should include myself) have no problem using AO for amusement rather than entertainment. Look how quickly threads can turn from a serious question to comedy or whatever. The thing is, ban all those involved, and AO is less than it was again, I for one cannot deny the good that these same people have brought to AO.

Whats the answer? Does bringing back a banned member who was, though not necessarily the cause of the problems, a symbol of them fix things? The sad thing is, I don't think so. Does making new moderators fix things? Again, we have moderators who have put a tempo to this forum, that people are comfortable with. New moderators take time to work in, and to get wtih the flow, and cause there own waves as they do. So, it seems to me, that cannot be the answer. Do we ask members of the "old guard" to post with more seriousness? Do they even bother to read the forums if we do? What is the cost of loosing them entirely? I think members are important to how AO was, and to some degree how AO is. Frankly, if it was not for there amusement, how many people would be bored with AO and not bother reading?

[slade]

damn, i havent seen cryer for a long time...


That sounds good. I came here for information and all I find are pastry recipes :p
youll get used to it.

hey, maybe ill throw in a recipe too!

how to make toast:

1) buy a freestyle
2)
3) toast!


Hah!
Actually buddy, if you talk to Azaam--and i know you do-- ask him about it, you'll find that he was banned for HIS posts!
Ask him sometime and get it right :)
hmm. i thought it was at least partially because of what i said via AIM that he posted.

/still has never been banned.

[Automaggot68]

hmm. i thought it was at least partially because of what i said via AIM that he posted.

/still has never been banned.


Naw, he ended up posting other stuff later in the thread, signing his name, not mine.

[Automaggot68]

Sam. I made those apple enchilada things.
THEY RULED.omg.

[Lohman446]

Personally, I don't think Warped has some hidden agenda. I beleive he might actually be trying to start discussion on the boards, perhaps to satisfy his own curiosity. How many good threads do we have in a week anymore, a handful maybe, if we are lucky.

[shartley]

BTW Sam. I made those apple enchilada things.
THEY RULED.omg.
Yes they do, don’t they?

[Maghog]

I agree with Rogue, Warped is bitter about something and wants to disrupt AO as much as he can. I've seen him bash AGD, support SP and find many reasons for squabbling on this board since he's been here. I'm not saying he shouldn't be allowed to do any of that, but it's very suspicious.

[Lohman446]

I don't know, implying Warped has an agenda to support companies he likes and has no other purpose in posting is like saying that they only reason Rogue posts is to sell his products and not to make a positive contribution. I don't beleive it.

[Duzzy]

It's easy to see the things you want to see, it is harder to see truth.

[rkjunior303]

Ya know, it's very easy to add someone to the ignore list in your "User CP".

[shartley]

It's easy to see the things you want to see, it is harder to see truth.QFT :cheers:

[luke]

I'm not complaining at all, just pointing out fact. But AO used to be a great forum with many posters with vast knowledge of more than just mags on paintball. Now it has become worse than PBNation.

In many threads yes, but there are some that turn into great discussions. This one has the feel of the "old" AO IMO. We have different points of view being discussed in an adult manner. :cheers: I actually read most of it. ;)


Express your opinion, get flamed to death. Ask a question and you're told to not be stupid and use a search, or you get called a noob for asking such a stupid question. AO did keep its B/S/T reputation intact.

I agree, this happens allot, it bothers me too. You forgot one that ticks me off, post something someone else has already seen and you’re in big trouble! Personally I'm not sure why it's a problem. :rolleyes:



Tell me, did the average IQ drop when the average age dropped well below 20? Or is it that Tom is no longer in control, so you're all rebelling?


The thrill is certainly gone now that I know nothing new is coming from AGD. I remember years ago looking forward to logging on with hopes of seeing something new that Tom was working on. The whole experience of AO was exciting simply because people felt like they were apart of AGD, I think because of that people were more behaved.

[sicone]

I'm part of the new gen of AO having recently joined and being 17, but i do agree with most of the ideas said here. If you want to bash "noobs" go to PBN! Everyone here was a noob at one time, help them learn about the sport dont try to scare them awayor unintentionally do it. To put it simple dont flame, dont be spiteful, and for the sake of man HELP OUT NOOBS, DONT BASH THEM
srry just IMHO

[BlackVCG]

Alright, I'll admit I haven't exactly been around much myself. Why? Well, because I have a career now that I have to focus on, the college days are over and after spending four years on this forum, I just feel like I need to spend time elsewhere.

I've noticed if there's one consistency with human behavior, it's to always reminisce the past and usually in a more postive light than the current status quo. Look, I've been here since a couple months before AGD bought this forum and turned it into the first paintball forum owned and operated by a manufacturer. We had our share of problems even when the forum had 600 members. It was just on a smaller scale than today. With more people there's more problems and that "second home" feeling a lot of us had with the forums slowly disintegrated away.

I see there being two options a forum like this could go with... 1) Get to a point where it feels comfortable with the membership level, stop new memberships and turn into club of the same people sitting around the fire BS'n about the same stories over and over or leave membership open to everyone, continue to meet new intriguing people and create new friendships.

Of course, with the good comes the bad, but as long as the good continue to participate, this forum will continue to thrive.

[atm743]

ya know I shouldn’t post but you know I want to say my thoughts


when I first joined no one ever commented my posted like in the ways automagget and magman007 and target practice do

yes I don’t know English

but you know I am sick and tired of this crap.

when I first joined Ao to me it had like this certain vibe of happiness. I don’t know how to explain it but it just seemed that everyone was not fighting or flaming each other

now its a difference story and I have to say I have seen others flam and comment others and really I don’t get it.

I do miss the old days of ao

[Mind'sEye]

I'm a newbie here. Though I bought my first Automag in 1992, I just wasn't playing paintball during AO's hayday. I joined in May of 05 to research connecting the Emag HES to a DIY Morlock board. Since then I have used the stickies and the search feature to access a wealth of information left behind. My impression from these travels into AO's past is that the Forum was a more vibrant and alive place in large part because Airgun Designs was a more vibrant and alive company. It seems perfectly understandable to me that many have moved on for any number of reasons which might include dis-illusionment, boredom, interest in other markers and the retirement of Tom Kaye himself. An Emag and an Xmag have found a home in my gear bag. I'm thankful for all the members of AO whose posts have assisted me in learning how to maintain and tune these markers for years to come.

[FooTemps]

ya know I shouldn’t post but you know I want to say my thoughts


when I first joined no one ever commented my posted like in the ways automagget and magman007 and target practice do

yes I don’t know English

but you know I am sick and tired of this crap.

when I first joined Ao to me it had like this certain vibe of happiness. I don’t know how to explain it but it just seemed that everyone was not fighting or flaming each other

now its a difference story and I have to say I have seen others flam and comment others and really I don’t get it.

I do miss the old days of ao

LAWLMG U DON'T LYKE DEREK AND RYAN!

/but seriously, there's always been flaming and crude comments going around. There's no way to change it, it's always how forums will be.
//also get a sense of humor
///lawl, slashes are fun
////btw :mad:
/////OMGFLAMES
//////OMGSLASHES!
///////OMG I'M SAYING OMG!
////////forgot to mention something
/////////here it is
//////////you dont have the seniority to complain about us.

[Automaggot68]

ya know I shouldn’t post but you know I want to say my thoughts


when I first joined no one ever commented my posted like in the ways automagget and magman007 and target practice do

yes I don’t know English

but you know I am sick and tired of this crap.

when I first joined Ao to me it had like this certain vibe of happiness. I don’t know how to explain it but it just seemed that everyone was not fighting or flaming each other

now its a difference story and I have to say I have seen others flam and comment others and really I don’t get it.

I do miss the old days of ao

Automaggot68 ***
When you post it makes my brain hurt.


Seriously.
My brains = omgwtfx

[Automaggot68]

LAWLMG U DON'T LYKE DEREK AND RYAN!

/but seriously, there's always been flaming and crude comments going around. There's no way to change it, it's always how forums will be.
//also get a sense of humor
///lawl, slashes are fun
////btw :mad:
/////OMGFLAMES
//////OMGSLASHES!
///////OMG I'M SAYING OMG!


Dude.
/that was a lot of slashes
//postwhore

[Target Practice]

but you know I am sick and tired of this crap.

So, you can be sick and tired of something, and complain up and down about it, and do things to bring it upon yourself, and it's okay.

But when we're sick and tired of having to wade through post after post of unintelligible (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=unintelligible) drivel, we have to keep quiet and ignore it? When good posters get permbanned, and a crappy poster who does the same exact thing gets off scot-free, we have to sit by and ignore it?

If you didn't want to hear what myself and the rest of the "Thorde" has to say, you would have put us all on ignore a long time ago. You might as well admit it. You want to see what we have to say. You want to see what's going to happen next. You're on the edge of your seat, with those little Cheeto-stained fingers of yours desperately hitting F5 for the latest fix of your favorite guilty pleasure.

So, we turn your arguements around. If you don't want to hear what we have to say, put us on your ignore lists. You've said the same to us time and time again. Don't like the thread? "Ignore it." Don't like the spelling? "Ignore it." Don't like the poster? "Ignore it."

Why don't you take your own advice, and just deal with it.

[MarkM]

So, you can be sick and tired of something, and complain up and down about it, and do things to bring it upon yourself, and it's okay.

But when we're sick and tired of having to wade through post after post of unintelligible (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=unintelligible) drivel, we have to keep quiet and ignore it? When good posters get permbanned, and a crappy poster who does the same exact thing gets off scot-free, we have to sit by and ignore it?

If you didn't want to hear what myself and the rest of the "Thorde" has to say, you would have put us all on ignore a long time ago. You might as well admit it. You want to see what we have to say. You want to see what's going to happen next. You're on the edge of your seat, with those little Cheeto-stained fingers of yours desperately hitting F5 for the latest fix of your favorite guilty pleasure.

So, we turn your arguements around. If you don't want to hear what we have to say, put us on your ignore lists. You've said the same to us time and time again. Don't like the thread? "Ignore it." Don't like the spelling? "Ignore it." Don't like the poster? "Ignore it."

Why don't you take your own advice, and just deal with it.


So, we turn your arguements around. If you don't want to hear what we have to say, put us on your ignore lists. You've said the same to us time and time again. Don't like the thread? "Ignore it." Don't like the spelling? "Ignore it." Don't like the poster? "Ignore it."

Why don't you take your own advice, and just deal with it.

I have double quoted your post so I cannot be accused of taking anything out of context but the second quoted part.......that door swings both ways, if ATM annoys you so much then don't pick on him or reply in a thread he makes since you also have the same option to use the ignore button.

[Target Practice]

I have double quoted your post so I cannot be accused of taking anything out of context but the second quoted part.......that door swings both ways, if ATM annoys you so much then don't pick on him or reply in a thread he makes since you also have the same option to use the ignore button.

This is my point. I am only using an arguement that has been used against me and other members time and time again. I understand that the door swings both ways. I'm merely trying to show others that.

[MarkM]

This is my point. I am only using an arguement that has been used against me and other members time and time again. I understand that the door swings both ways. I'm merely trying to show others that.

Ok fair enough, just that to use that arguement when directed as you did in your last post towards a specific user it came across as a double standard when you have previously not applied the same logic to your posting but if your post now means that you are now going to adhere to that arguement, very few of your threads/replys should get altered ;)

[BigEvil]

Alright, I'll admit I haven't exactly been around much myself. Why? Well, because I have a career now that I have to focus on, the college days are over and after spending four years on this forum, I just feel like I need to spend time elsewhere.

I've noticed if there's one consistency with human behavior, it's to always reminisce the past and usually in a more postive light than the current status quo. Look, I've been here since a couple months before AGD bought this forum and turned it into the first paintball forum owned and operated by a manufacturer. We had our share of problems even when the forum had 600 members. It was just on a smaller scale than today. With more people there's more problems and that "second home" feeling a lot of us had with the forums slowly disintegrated away.

I see there being two options a forum like this could go with... 1) Get to a point where it feels comfortable with the membership level, stop new memberships and turn into club of the same people sitting around the fire BS'n about the same stories over and over or leave membership open to everyone, continue to meet new intriguing people and create new friendships.

Of course, with the good comes the bad, but as long as the good continue to participate, this forum will continue to thrive.

BEST POST EVER :cheers:

[paint magnet]

Don't like the thread? "Ignore it." Don't like the spelling? "Ignore it." Don't like the poster? "Ignore it."

Yeah, that works for a while, but eventually becomes like spam in your e-mail. At first it's not a major problem, but after a while there is less legitimate stuff than there is useless crap, and to sort through it to find what you're looking for is often not worth the time.

[SCpoloRicker]

Hopefully, in three to five years, you will be kicking yourself.

/you never know
//also never been banned
///NOR-CAL


ya know I shouldn’t post but you know I want to say my thoughts


when I first joined no one ever commented my posted like in the ways automagget and magman007 and target practice do

yes I don’t know English

but you know I am sick and tired of this crap.

when I first joined Ao to me it had like this certain vibe of happiness. I don’t know how to explain it but it just seemed that everyone was not fighting or flaming each other

now its a difference story and I have to say I have seen others flam and comment others and really I don’t get it.

I do miss the old days of ao

[alooney11]

There is nothing technical left to talk about all the mag problems have been dealt with and answers are located in the forums.

[hitech]

The thrill is certainly gone now that I know nothing new is coming from AGD. I remember years ago looking forward to logging on with hopes of seeing something new that Tom was working on. The whole experience of AO was exciting simply because people felt like they were apart of AGD...

That sums it up for me.

Tom needs to change his mind and develope something new. I need some good diversions right now... :(


BTW, Am I part of the NorCal group? I know I didn't make it to a lot of the "events", but I did make a few.

For what it's worth, I was part of the LPB "incident", just not publicly so.

:cheers:

[Lohman446]

There is nothing technical left to talk about all the mag problems have been dealt with and answers are located in the forums.

Better effiency?
The ability to shoot lower into the tank?
A proactive anti-chop solution?
A production electro-frame?
A non-reactive, definetly tournament legal trigger system?

[SCpoloRicker]

BTW, Am I part of the NorCal group? I know I didn't make it to a lot of the "events", but I did make a few.

Duh. Of course. :)

/heck we even let Steelrat still "be a NorCal'er"

[DiRTyBuNNy]

did I hear someone talking about bans and my name not ever being mentioned...oh well...I'll head back into hibernation till I finally get some credit for coming up with the name "X-mags"..oh well...

-=dB=-

[Eric Cartman]

If you didn't want to hear what myself and the rest of the "Thorde" has to say, you would have put us all on ignore a long time ago. You might as well admit it. You want to see what we have to say. You want to see what's going to happen next. You're on the edge of your seat, with those little Cheeto-stained fingers of yours desperately hitting F5 for the latest fix of your favorite guilty pleasure.

That's perfect. Well said TP. It's just like when they asked the people who complain about Howard Stern why they kept listening to him. They all said pretty much the same thing, "I wanted to hear what he was going to say next"
Despite being tempted to put people on my ignore list, I freely admit to a morbid curiosity. Their posts may annoy the hell out of me, but part of me wants to see just how bad they can get. This tends to result in some entertaining comedy or drama, so in the end it's all good. :D