A case of paint

[SpitFire1299]

How much does it really cost to make a case of paint? Im not saying like a single paintball...

Does anyone know?

[quik]

35$

[SpitFire1299]

35$
Really? But for what kind of paint?

[P8ntBallBoom]

That all depends on the quality of the paint. I couldn't give you any exact figures but just know that the paint companies are making a lot more off of the paint than you would think.

[Lohman446]

That all depends on the quality of the paint. I couldn't give you any exact figures but just know that the paint companies are making a lot more off of the paint than you would think.

Especially if one fails to consider all the costs that are part of manufacturing paint that are not directly in the product, such as overhead and return on investment, as well as opportunity costs of equipment used. Factor in shipping, lost product, and middle-man markup...

Theres a big difference between material cost of paint and the manufacturing / selling cost of paint, unfortunately I think many people only consider material cost in making there judgements.

My guess - uneducated I have nothing to do with making paintballs - about $10 - $18 to manufacture, store, package, and sell (to a distributor in large quantities) not considering shipping costs or opportunity costs.

[68magOwner]

no way it costs $35 to make decent paint, because, we were getting top quality paint for $28 a case all last season, and imshure other teamshave better deals than than that. I would guess that retail store pays ~$15for good paintb

[WARPED1]

Theres costs you guys are not considering. Electricuty for the machines, salaries and hourly rates for the staff. Cost to ship to distributers etc etc.

[JRingold]

Wait, is that US Dollars, or Canadian?

[phantomhitman]

i have always wanted to know this also. I do not care about the shipping-employees-facilties-gas-etc. that is added in to actually help teh company make money, I just want to see the raw data. A case of chronic 420 costs around $60-65, if you know what the wholesale is, or the original manufaturer price, let em know. Most markups are around the %200-300 range on any products for retail sale.

[slade]

it costs a field $20-35 for a case of paint, depending on the quality. how much was the markup, im not sure.

[SpitFire1299]

:wow: :( Im asking, how much does it cost to make a case of paint? Like.. a company makes a case of paint, and sells it on the spot(so no shipping etc etc..), how much would it be?
:cheers:

I hope this isnt a question that no one can ever answer! AHH!

[JRingold]

With or without the manfuacturer making a profit or paying for the machines to actually make the product?

It's not as simple as you think it is. If you are just talking about the cost of the raw materials required to make a case of paint that isn't the same as what the real cost of a case is. You can't make the paintballs without the machines and people to run it, or a facility to house the machines.

[bleachit]

Most markups are around the %200-300 range on any products for retail sale.

what exactly are you referring to "most markups" in the paintball industry or retail in general?

[sicone]

dont forget packaging, shipping and insurance and all they broken buy backs paint should still only be 20 bucks a case for high quailty. i got mine its draxxus inferno for 30-38 bucks a case if i buy 6 or more cases

[slade]

:wow: :( Im asking, how much does it cost to make a case of paint? Like.. a company makes a case of paint, and sells it on the spot(so no shipping etc etc..), how much would it be?
:cheers:

I hope this isnt a question that no one can ever answer! AHH!
the thing is, not many know the answer. many of us are sponsored (aka, paint at cost for the field) or know field owners, or work at fields, or own a field/store themselves. so a lot of people know about what it costs a store for a case of paint. however, how many people on this forum do you think work for a company that produces paint? not many, if any at all.

[Torbo]

it costs a field $20-35 for a case of paint, depending on the quality. how much was the markup, im not sure.


it seems to be around 35 for field/practice paint.

[phantomhitman]

what exactly are you referring to "most markups" in the paintball industry or retail in general?

retail in general

[slateman]

I was told by the guys at the local shop that for high quality stuff, they generally don't make a whole lot. but for some of the lesser quality (specifically "White Ball), they almost double it.

[Rick-USA]

i have always wanted to know this also. I do not care about the shipping-employees-facilties-gas-etc. that is added in to actually help teh company make money, I just want to see the raw data. A case of chronic 420 costs around $60-65, if you know what the wholesale is, or the original manufaturer price, let em know. Most markups are around the %200-300 range on any products for retail sale.


You can't not care about the things you listed. The ONLY thing that isn't a cost of making a case of paint is the shipping. The employees have to be there to run the machines. The facilities have to be there to house the machine and keep it running. The gas/electricity/etc are all required to make that case of paint. If all you want are the cost of the shell and fill then you aren't adding up all the cost to make a case. Those cost would be low. But by the time you add in all the "extra" things you don't want to count it raises the cost.

Paint makers are making a profit or they wouldn't be making paint. I don't think they are making the level of profit the oil companies are but they are entitled to make a profit. Just as we are all entitled to not buy from a company we think charges too much for a product.

[nicad]

(sorry to hijack the thread-- itll only be a second)

Rick-- you are the Rick from PBUSA, right?

If so I have been trying to get ahold of you about the upcoming TX Throwdown.
Please shoot me an email colin |at| deadlywind (dot com).

thanks- Colin

(/hijack)

[phantomhitman]

You can't not care about the things you listed. The ONLY thing that isn't a cost of making a case of paint is the shipping. The employees have to be there to run the machines. The facilities have to be there to house the machine and keep it running. The gas/electricity/etc are all required to make that case of paint. If all you want are the cost of the shell and fill then you aren't adding up all the cost to make a case. Those cost would be low. But by the time you add in all the "extra" things you don't want to count it raises the cost.

Paint makers are making a profit or they wouldn't be making paint. I don't think they are making the level of profit the oil companies are but they are entitled to make a profit. Just as we are all entitled to not buy from a company we think charges too much for a product.


look, i understand how it works and why. i have taken all of the classes and know the ins and outs. i only said i dont care because i just want the raw data. I KNOW WHY PAINT COSTS THAT MUCH, I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS THEIR COST TO MAKE IT. I am not complaining about prices or *****ing at companies, I just want to know how big off a markup there is. calm down, take a break, when you have my answer quote me again.

[Lohman446]

Phantom, you seem to have added a zero to your mark-up percentages in general retail - etiher that or I need to explore new businesses

[Lohman446]

Well, the only thing important in cost is the material goods, and the value of the material goods. Because in a collective society that functions for societies greater goods the only value of electricity adn consumables is the value of the resources that go into them. Only, in a happy society, where everyone's labor is equal to the greater benefit can one be truly happy. As such things like opportunity cost, overhead, wages, profit, and other capitilistic evils must not be counted, a product is only worth the value of its base material.

/Yes comrade, its true its true
// :rolleyes:

[paullus99]

Well, standard mark up from the manufacturer (from their cost, including transport) is ususally 30% - 100%. So if a retailer purchases the paint at $35.00 per case from the manufacturer, it should cost anywhere from $17.50 - 28.00 per case to make.

That is complete conjecture on my part - but I would bet that its probably pretty close to reality.

[Lohman446]

Well, standard mark up from the manufacturer (from their cost, including transport) is ususally 30% - 100%. So if a retailer purchases the paint at $35.00 per case from the manufacturer, it should cost anywhere from $17.50 - 28.00 per case to make.

That is complete conjecture on my part - but I would bet that its probably pretty close to reality.

The standard mark-up in general retail is between 20 and 40% for "walk-out" items, that is items that a take no extra labor from the retailer for the customer to use. Mark-up on skill installed items by the retailer (think house heating systems, auto parts, etc) is generally higher.

[phantomhitman]

my markup is from the original creator of a product to teh retail stores. It applies to clothes or food. I know for a fact restaraunts markup their food around %200 because the cost of the food is usually under $10 (for a $50). They do not make as much on some items (mainly meat) but on others the consumer gets the shaft. My roomate used to work for a big name clothing company and their cost per shirt was under $2, while they would charge anywhere from $20 to $50 for that same shirt. Cds and dvs cost less 50 cent to make but you pay $20 a least for them. I know why they charge that much, they have to make money as well as cover all of their costs. Markups are more than people think.

edit-I am not talking about what a store gets it for and then marks it up for retail (That percentage is much much lower). I am talking about what the manufacturer sells it for and then what the price ends up being in a store.

[shartley]

my markup is from the original creator of a product to teh retail stores. It applies to clothes or food. I know for a fact restaraunts markup their food around %200 because the cost of the food is usually under $10 (for a $50). They do not make as much on some items (mainly meat) but on others the consumer gets the shaft. My roomate used to work for a big name clothing company and their cost per shirt was under $2, while they would charge anywhere from $20 to $50 for that same shirt. Cds and dvs cost less 50 cent to make but you pay $20 a least for them. I know why they charge that much, they have to make money as well as cover all of their costs. Markups are more than people think.
The key thing for folks to remember is…

I know why they charge that much, they have to make money as well as cover all of their costs. Markups are more than people think.
How wonderful it would be if businesses could keep the “over material costs” amounts. But at the end of the day everybody and their brother is getting a slice of the pie… not just the business who is selling the product.

[Lohman446]

my markup is from the original creator of a product to teh retail stores. It applies to clothes or food. I know for a fact restaraunts markup their food around %200 because the cost of the food is usually under $10 (for a $50). They do not make as much on some items (mainly meat) but on others the consumer gets the shaft. My roomate used to work for a big name clothing company and their cost per shirt was under $2, while they would charge anywhere from $20 to $50 for that same shirt. Cds and dvs cost less 50 cent to make but you pay $20 a least for them. I know why they charge that much, they have to make money as well as cover all of their costs. Markups are more than people think.

edit-I am not talking about what a store gets it for and then marks it up for retail (That percentage is much much lower). I am talking about what the manufacturer sells it for and then what the price ends up being in a store.

I don't understand your point. Your comparing material costs to manufacture without considering labor or anything else, and then noting that mark-up is high. Any number can be skewed if one tries, and it seems like you are going out of your way to skew the mark-up numbers.

[slade]

it seems to be around 35 for field/practice paint.
my field buys paint by the skid at about $25 for practice paint (stingers) and $35 for PMI premium... maybe a little less than that.

[phantomhitman]

lohman, i am not complaining about anything. i just want to know what the cost is to make a case of paint. i am not arguing about anything, or saying this or that about price markups. i am just trying to figure out how much a case costs a manufacturer to make. what canyou not understand about that, I KNOW WHY THE FINAL PRICE IS HIGH i just want to know HOW MUCH IT COSTS THEM TO MAKE.

[Lohman446]

lohman, i am not complaining about anything. i just want to know what the cost is to make a case of paint. i am not arguing about anything, or saying this or that about price markups. i am just trying to figure out how much a case costs a manufacturer to make. what canyou not understand about that, I KNOW WHY THE FINAL PRICE IS HIGH i just want to know HOW MUCH IT COSTS THEM TO MAKE.


Including what costs? Material? Labor? Cost of equipment? Utilities? Transportation? Opportunity costs?

[phantomhitman]

ok, lets see what should be included
1-material
2-machine time
3-labor

Just raw cost. Nothing added for shipping, r&d, startup costs, testing, etc. The price I am looking for is what they are trying to make money on top of. It would be something like $10-20, because they sell paint to distributors for $25-35 a case. Distributors then sell it to fields or events for $40-50 a case. Fields then sell it for $45-90 a case. I know they need to make money to put in theri pockets as well as cover their initial product costs, that is were they get their final sales figure from. I think I am overcomplicating this.

[11 Bravo]

His question was how much does it cost the mfg to make a case of paint. Without getting into the argument about mark up and how many people have to get their cut and the insuarance costs and all that bs.
To answer the simple question: around $15.00 give or take a few bucks depending on the quality.

[Lohman446]

ok, lets see what should be included
1-material
2-machine time
3-labor

Just raw cost. Nothing added for shipping, r&d, startup costs, testing, etc. The price I am looking for is what they are trying to make money on top of. It would be something like $10-20, because they sell paint to distributors for $25-35 a case. Distributors then sell it to fields or events for $40-50 a case. Fields then sell it for $45-90 a case. I know they need to make money to put in theri pockets as well as cover their initial product costs, that is were they get their final sales figure from. I think I am overcomplicating this.

From start to handing it to the distributor, not including such theoreticals as opportunity cost, I would guess the actual cost on a case to be between $10 and $15

[phantomhitman]

my assupmtion was right then. thanks guys, let me know if anyone is in the biz and can give proof on that. all i know is field cost, which is $25-30 for rec and $35-40 for mid grade.

[Mind'sEye]

His question was how much does it cost the mfg to make a case of paint. Without getting into the argument about mark up and how many people have to get their cut and the insuarance costs and all that bs.
To answer the simple question: around $15.00 give or take a few bucks depending on the quality.

That's a simple answer to a somewhat complicated accounting question. What is your source? The only certain way to determine the average cost of producing a case of paintballs is to examine the company's books. The basic formula would be: The total of ALL operating expenses directly related to the manufacture of paintballs for a quarter, divided by the number of cases produced in that quarter. Is there anybody out there with access to PMI's, Rp Scherer division full financials? :)

[Conversekidz]

anyone bring up that most paint makers are pharma companies?

[Kevmaster]

right...an actual CD costs less than $0.50 to make and copy the tracks onto.

However, the marketing of that CD, the artist, the producers, the graphic designers, the buildings all have to be paid for too. Thats not to say they don't make profit on CDs, but the owner of a record company doesnt walk home with $11.50 on each $12.00 CD...

[latches109]

Craig Miller - Diablo/Draxxus

"Year - Average cost per ball - Average Cost per "day of play" - % change
1982 - 30 to 50 CENTS !$!?&*$ - $39.00 -- 55.00 0
1985 - 25 CENTS !!!!$%&?@! - $39.00 -- 55.00 0
1988 - 10 – 12 cents per ball - $39.00 -- 55.00 0
1993 - 5 - 10 cents per ball - $39.00 -- 55.00 0
1997 - ~ 4 cents per ball - $39.00 -- 55.00 0
2001 - ~ 2 ½ -- 3 ½ cents per ball - $39.00 -- 55.00 0

So, retail Paintball prices, in general, are ONE TENTH of their prior cost from 19 years ago

Obviously, it's normal to wish for prices to go even lower. But the fact is, this market has matured to a point where there are a whole bunch of competing manufacturers, trying to at least break even, and in some cases failing, and prices have dropped SO LOW that our sources confirm that some of the lowest priced suppliers are LOSING between $50,000.00 to $100,000.00 per month--that's in U.S. Dollars. That's not likely to be sustained for long."

[SpitFire1299]

Craig Miller - Diablo/Draxxus

"Year - Average cost per ball - Average Cost per "day of play" - % change
1982 - 30 to 50 CENTS !$!?&*$ - $39.00 -- 55.00 0
1985 - 25 CENTS !!!!$%&?@! - $39.00 -- 55.00 0
1988 - 10 – 12 cents per ball - $39.00 -- 55.00 0
1993 - 5 - 10 cents per ball - $39.00 -- 55.00 0
1997 - ~ 4 cents per ball - $39.00 -- 55.00 0
2001 - ~ 2 ½ -- 3 ½ cents per ball - $39.00 -- 55.00 0

So, retail Paintball prices, in general, are ONE TENTH of their prior cost from 19 years ago

Obviously, it's normal to wish for prices to go even lower. But the fact is, this market has matured to a point where there are a whole bunch of competing manufacturers, trying to at least break even, and in some cases failing, and prices have dropped SO LOW that our sources confirm that some of the lowest priced suppliers are LOSING between $50,000.00 to $100,000.00 per month--that's in U.S. Dollars. That's not likely to be sustained for long."
Awesome! Thanks for that information. :cheers:

[SCpoloRicker]

w/o reading the thread; I'll go ahead and recommend you run away. ;)


Especially if one fails to consider all the costs that are part of manufacturing paint that are not directly in the product, such as overhead and return on investment, as well as opportunity costs of equipment used. Factor in shipping, lost product, and middle-man markup...

Theres a big difference between material cost of paint and the manufacturing / selling cost of paint, unfortunately I think many people only consider material cost in making there judgements.

My guess - uneducated I have nothing to do with making paintballs - about $10 - $18 to manufacture, store, package, and sell (to a distributor in large quantities) not considering shipping costs or opportunity costs.

[11 Bravo]

That's a simple answer to a somewhat complicated accounting question. What is your source? The only certain way to determine the average cost of producing a case of paintballs is to examine the company's books. The basic formula would be: The total of ALL operating expenses directly related to the manufacture of paintballs for a quarter, divided by the number of cases produced in that quarter. Is there anybody out there with access to PMI's, Rp Scherer division full financials? :)


Its a simple answer to a simple question. I have contact with two different sources at two different companies. Also these companies mfg their own paint they do not use pharmacutical(sp) companies.
He asked a simple question and I gave him a direct answer without trying to show off my big business brain like some people.

[FSU_Paintball]

At a recent well-known tournament that a team I have been affiliated with in the past, they were given the top (*top*) quality tournament paint for $25/case. And there is no way that the company in question would have been willing to lose money on the deal - the team in question ain't exactly Dynasty. This was strictly a just-for-this-event case, not a full sponsorship.

I suspect total cost is about $15-20 for the absolute best paint to be manufactured, boxed, everything except shipped.

[SlartyBartFast]

While this thread and any data it can generate are completely worthless, I do know for a FACT that the cost per paintball in materials is a fraction of a penny per ball.

An aquantance I know works for a chemical distribution company and sells all the raw material to a paintball manufacturer in the Montreal area. Guess you know who that is... They even joked with him once to sell him a 45’ trailer of paint for raw material costs. Can’t remember the exact price, but I doubt it wouldt buy you a skid of paint at wholesale.

Each level of the distribution chain has so many variables that trying to eliminate any of them is a futile exercise.

Price at the manufacturer, price in the door at the distributer, wholesale price, all but final retail price are guarded secrets. And like the price of all comodities, retail price has very little to do with raw material costs.

[onedude36]

A shop near me charges about 26(i think) per case of charge. Its not great, but will get you through a practice. That averages about 1.3 cents per ball.