Retro Valve hazard-AGD, please hear me out

[Dave]

I want to let y'all know that as far as AGD goes, I have been 100% completely satisfied with their products, except for this:

When I had my standard valve in, everything was fine. If I needed to work clean the marker out, I would simply de-gas the mag, undo the quick-dissconnect, pull the trigger, then pull the vavle out, no prob. The troubles started happening when I got my Retro Valve. You can read the problem in detail on this tech post:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18606

The reason this post is not in the tech forum right now is because it is dealing with a safety hazard. To make a long story short, I simply cannot ever get my Retro Valve out without having problems...something freezes, something gets stuck, and I usually can't even take the valve out without completely disassembling the marker. So today, after I shot about 200 balls, I took the marker inside to take apart because it broke paint, because the paint was very brittle.


So here is what I do: I de-gas it, undo the quick-disconnect, and then wait a little bit. I then pull the trigger, undo the field strip screw, and gently grasp the valve as I hope for the best. Well, it got stuck, again. Even before it got stuck, I heard air escape as I was loosening it ever so carefully so I thought surely that was all that was left. Well, I surely didn't want to make another $18 mistake and snap the pin, so I did what Rob told me to do, simply undo the whole marker and separate the rail from the valve. So thats what I did, and then turned it over so I could look at it because I wanted to get to the bottom of this problem with the valve constantly sticking. When I looked, the pin wasn't even sticking out! So now I was really confused. It was still stuck, but apparently nothing was holding it...or so I thought. I jiggle the vavle a little more, and as soon the on/off assembly got free of the body....POW! I hear a loud noise, feel air brush past my face, and then hear the on/off assembly ricocheting off the ceiling. This all happening in a fraction of a second. I am freaked out. It was 2 inches away from nailing me straight in the eye, I don't know why I wasn't looking at it from straight on, but thank God I didn't cause I'd be at the hospital now. I am not talking about a little 'pop' and it flew out five feet...it was like the air was never turned off!!!!!!!!!!



I have been searching my automag manual for the past 5 min trying to find a warning or a procedure for carefully taking out the on/off. I found none, and the Retro Valve doesn't come with a manual. This really really scared me. I have no idea why it is doing this...my standard valve NEVER had this problem. I have been on this forum for a few months, and heard a little about on/off pins flyin' out, but mine did the exact same thing when every precaution for completely de-gassing the gun was done. I don't know if it is just my valve, but I could easily see someone else doing this. Honestly, I do not know what AGD can do or what I can ask them for, all I know is Tom wants our feedback, and I am telling him. It would suck for AGD to be sued if someone got injured bad from this same problem, since there is no warning. Is there some other way I can de-gas the gun to make it safer? I don't wan't ya'll to think I'm flaming or anything, but I feel obligated to tell AGD. All I know is that pin had enough force behind it to seriously injury or blind someone, and I am seriously considering going back to my standard valve, which never had these problems. A reactive trigger+26 b.p.s. recharge rate is not worth this:(

-Dave

[mitch]

man thats not cool at all.
i read that when you de gass the rt there will still be a bit of air in it but i did not think there would be enough air to push the on/off pin out like that.
you should phone agd and tell them aboutt his.
thats really unsafe.

[Minimag4me]

you could sell the problem valve to me for like $50.

[FooTemps]

That's freaky...

No wonder my parents don't want me paintballing

[Dave]

Please please please please(X10) oh please AGD make the Retro On/Off like the standard on/off or at least without a super snappy brittle pin!!! Can I somehow use/modify the standard on/off to work in the Retro(Its like a fraction too tall) or drill out the Retro on/off to accept the standard on/off pins?

-Dave

[Minimag4me]

just be careful when you take out the valve like wear your paintball mask and put something over the on/off to catch it(like a cup, sac or something)

ps-or you can sell it to me

[nutz]

i had problems too with a bit of gas in the valve and the valve sticking in... but the on/off has never shot out

[AGD]

Your trigger rod is out of adjustment that's why you can't disassemble the valve without taking off the mainbody. Do you have an aftermarket frame on it? Please send it in and we will adjust it for you. The system is made to be disassembled without taking the mainbody off. There can be residual pressure trapped in the valve depending on your bolt spring, its like 10-50 psi. Anyone having problems in properly taking out the valve should contact the factory immediately.

AGD

[Dave]

My marker is 100% AGD-stock Retro Valve, Superbolt, Z-Grip. Perhaps it is my trigger rod...maybe I can talk to Rob about it...I will try the stock sear and rod, the one that Rob adjusted for me.

-Dave

[Dave]

Ok, tried the sear and rod Rob adjusted for me-the first time I gassed it up and took it apart again it worked great-whew! Thank you AGD! But the second time I did it, about half way though test firing it with, the rod only returned half way back each time I pulled the trigger, and the gun wouldn't actually fire, and on the triggers return each time, for just a tiny fraction of a second, it would let air out, and just one super-specific point on the triggers return. Now, my tank is virtually empty, and that may be the cause, but if I was to de-gas it, just how would that be different than a nearly empty tank? Anyway, I cannot know what the heck that wierdo thing going on is until I get a full tank, but at least now there are no shooting valves.

-Dave

[Lord Vader]

This may help:

Get a 2-hole vertical and run a gas-thru foregrip; attach a bleed/purge valve to the hole that is not being used by hoses. That's what I do when degassing.

[mag59459]

speaking of valve hazards, does anyone ever have one shot left in your valve after you de-gas it? Its kinda cool but once i accidentaly shot my friend w/ my gun when i picked it up. The last time I had the bottle on was 3 days before. We all had a good laugh but it could have been dangerous.

[alf]

i have a 13" SS hose with a slide check (on the bottle side), and a QD on the valve side...to degas, i turn the bottle off, and open the slide check...

heres the freaky part...when i close the slide check again, and open it right away, there is STILL some gas left...i do this about 6-8 times, and FINALLY it is totally degassed...

anyone else have this problem/feature too?

[Dayspring]

Originally posted by mag59459
speaking of valve hazards, does anyone ever have one shot left in your valve after you de-gas it? Its kinda cool but once i accidentaly shot my friend w/ my gun when i picked it up. The last time I had the bottle on was 3 days before. We all had a good laugh but it could have been dangerous.

That's why you have a barrel plug in at all times unless you're on the field playing. No exceptions.

[Dude]

I was taking apart a 68 mag with the stock valve. As soon as I had pulled the valve from the mainbody, while holding the mainbldy upside down, the on, off valve hit me in the forehead. It wasn't bad, just a small cut, still kinda scary.

[Dave]

I think this is at least serious enough for AGD to stick a warning or proper instructions along with the Mag manual or the Retro Vavle. I mean, the same brand new sear that came with my Retro was the sear giving me the problems...and lets say some person had the same situation and they bought it online, or they bought it at a store that didn't have close connections to AGD, or they didn't know about Automags.org?

By the way, thank you AGD for answering me like within 30 min of my post-talk about customer serive;)

-Dave

[Dave]

Rats! The valve still freezes, and yes I had to take apart my gun again...and now I am angry at myself because yesterday I though it was a problem with that stupid little pin, so I put a standard on/off assembly in the Retro on/off hole just to see how it would fit, not knowing that the standard on/off assembly is like 1/1000th of an inch larger in diameter, got the brass part stuck, tried to get it out and in the process lightly gouged the inside of the on/off hole. I can't believe this. I just have to put this down and do something else or I'll scream.

Do scratches/light gouges majorly screw up the on/off hole? I didn't notice air leak or anything, but now this bothers me.



-Dave

[Dave]

well, I am back to my standard valve, and have had no problem taking out this valve, no freezing, no sticking. Man, I sure hope I didn't screw up the whole Retro by putting gouge lines in the on/off hole:( it is very dissapointing and I'm not feeling to good right now....I am just glad that there is a place like AO that I can talk about this and stuff.


-Dave

[FaSSt]

No offense, but I think that you are overanalysing this a bit. AGD will fix it free, so just send it back.

We have too many warnings on too many products as it is. Every product can't have a warning label against every possible way to NOT use it.

But in the meantime, if the product is obviously not behaving the way you expected, and you do not feel or are not qualified to perform further work on it, just step away and call the nice people at Tech Support.

To paraphrase Tom Hanks, "there is no whining in paintball". ;)

[Dave]

yeah, your right I did overdue it a little...sorry:)

I sent the office an email and if I need to talk to them on the phone, I'll do that to see if I need to send the whole marker or just the vavle and what not...I am not too worried about it, AGD takes very good care of their customers:)

-Dave