One shot to the head or neck at 15ft at 300fps

[Beemer]

For a test, Would you let me shoot you in the head or neck, from the shoulder up, anywhere I want with a 3.5g 0.650 Paintball. With your current gear you used last time you played.
Range = 15ft
FPS. = 300fps.[at muzzle] Of course at 15ft it wont be going 300fps.

This is from The ASTM Paintball standards F 1979-04. Standard specification for paintballs used in the sport of Paintball

3.3 Maximum Weight—The paintballs shall not weigh more than 3.5 g.

3.5 Diameter of Paintball—The diameter of the paintball as
measured both polar and at the seam shall measure between
16.5 mm (0.650 in.) and 18 mm (0.709 in.).

Do you wear neck protection?

I asked this poll question around and you might be surprised how they answered and who they were that I asked.

_____________

http://home.comcast.net/~allfor114all/respect.gif

[Cow hunter]

not sure what there is to get? are you asking if ppl actually shoot from there or wat? or are u asking if ppl wear neck protection?

[68magOwner]

....i dont wear neck protection, nor would i let someone shoot me in the neck from 15ft away voluntarily even if i did.

[Beemer]

Its for a test. Would you let me do it? Did ya vote

[Muzikman]

I don't wear neck protection any more. I use to back in the mid 90's. I have been hit within 10ft at some where around 300fps square center in the throat and let me tell ya, it didn't tickle. It also makes things hard to breath.

Would I let you do this on purpose, hell no.

I also don't wear a cup.

[Pha|anx]

Yes.

[SpitFire1299]

Yes.. if you payed me. :headbang:

[kenndogg]

wouldn't be no different than getting bunkered in the neck/head during a game....wait a minute it would be different, in a game I would of gotten shot more than once at closer range. so I guess the answer would be yes. whats the point?

[Beemer]

That is the point. I only need one for the test, more then that and the odds will Increase

[can'tthink of1]

The main question is do I get to wear what I normally wear, a beanie and soon a bandana around the neck (need to get one actually).

Also, it depends if I have adrenaline going or not. In the middle of a game, shots barely hurt at all.

I've taken a short right to the adam's apple, and I had a hard time breathing for a lil while. Nice bleeding welt too. I've decided I want to start wearing just a bandana around my neck.

[onedude36]

In a game, yes. out side of a game, no.

[AnthonyW]

I would :tard:. I wear neck protection because my local field requires it, 7 years back a kid was hit in the throut and everyone left the field except for him (not Know this) until the next game someone found him passed out, he could hardly breathe and the air med team came and flew him out of there. He was fine after two day in the hospital.

[punkncat]

Getting shot in the neck is something along the lines of getting shot in the jewels. Its something that very few people prepare for. At the same time it happens so little. Its kinda like the chances of winning the lottery. It can happen, but its not very likely.

I used to wear neck protection. I have been hit in the neck a few times and was glad I had it. But down here in the summer, heat stroke is your real enemy. It will hurt you much faster than a paintball anywhere. So I wear as little as possible in the summer anymore. More exposed skin=greater cooling.

In reply to your poll. I say no, not on purpose.

[Carbon]

Hellz No!

[shartley]

Yes. I wear a Ban-du, mask, and a neck guard. Shoot away. :shooting:

[buzzboy]

Usually I just wear a turtle neck so it isn't too bad. I've been shot in the neck and not even known I was hit.

[phantomhitman]

that is the last place i want to get shot...ever

[warpspyder]

Sorry dude, but voluntarily getting shot in the neck just ain't gonna fly :nono:

[Thordic]

Just in general? No, I'm not that dumb.

Do I think its dangerous? No, not really. I'm not worried about the aftereffects of such a hit, but I do realize it'd be rather painful and I don't feel like going through that :) I took a hot hit off the collarbone at NJAO this year and not only did it bleed but it left a mark for over two weeks. Granted it was hot, but it was from around 30 feet.

I've gotten shot in the neck before, and it hurts like hell. I don't think anyone is going to argue with that. You might even have trouble breathing for a few seconds. But as far as an actual injury is concerned, I think that'd be an extremely rare event.

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

head (goggles, back of the head, top of my head) yes
neck... uhhh... i don't really get shot in the neck a lot so no (neck isn't use to getting hit yet =P)

so... would this qualify as a yes or a no? cause there's no "Maybe" vote

[etjoyride]

yes i would, the other day i got shot in the finger from 5ft away at about 285 or so, so i figure a neck shot from 15ft. at 300 away wouldn't be to much worse.

[Lohman446]

I have enough knowledge to beleive that there is a chance that bad luck on any given day of paintball could cause me severe injury, such as the dead on neck shot or head shot at extreme close range. I beleive the chances remote.

There is also a chance that my treadmill erupts into flames when I am on it, or I get hit by a car walking down the street. Every day when I take a deposit to the bank there is a chance that I am the victim of a crime. Every time I get in my vehicle I take a risk. When I participated in martial arts, there was a chance that I stepped into a sidekick, that could kill me in every match I participated in.

The point is, I except those risks, I love the game. I love what I do in it. Not ignored, the risks are worth the reward...

[stop whining buy a mag]

I have enough knowledge to beleive that there is a chance that bad luck on any given day of paintball could cause me severe injury, such as the dead on neck shot or head shot at extreme close range. I beleive the chances remote.

There is also a chance that my treadmill erupts into flames when I am on it, or I get hit by a car walking down the street. Every day when I take a deposit to the bank there is a chance that I am the victim of a crime. Every time I get in my vehicle I take a risk. When I participated in martial arts, there was a chance that I stepped into a sidekick, that could kill me in every match I participated in.

The point is, I except those risks, I love the game. I love what I do in it. Not ignored, the risks are worth the reward...

Ladies and Gentlemen, you are now free to up Lohman's useful post count to six.

If you want to be risk free for the rest of your life, run around New York City screaming "You can't see California without Marlon Brando's eyes" and you'll get yourself a safe, padded room.

[Beemer]

Just in general? No, I'm not that dumb.
Do I think its dangerous? No, not really.

You arent dumb and you dont think its dangerous. :ninja:



I have enough knowledge to beleive that there is a chance that bad luck on any given day of paintball could cause me severe injury, such as the dead on neck shot or head shot at extreme close range.

Well this wasnt really about chances or risks. It was a simple yes or no poll, but since you brought it up.

I know when I get up in the morning there is a chance or risk I could slip and fall and break my neck. Does that mean I shouldnt care if the floor is wet.

When I skydive there is a Remote chance my main will have a function or fail. Does that mean I dont need my reserve?

I wont pull a micro[bunker] move on you for the simple fact I know it to be unsafe, with the current head gear and ROF most players use today.

Just because I know there are risks, chances and dangers doesnt mean I shouldnt do what I can to minimize them for my preservation.

Watch this clip and the shooters actions at the end. Tell me he doesnt know he put some serious hurt on that guy. Is THAT safe.

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/HeadShots.wmv

Dont get me wrong. I love the GAME and will continue to play but do we really need to hurt each other to have FUN?

On a side note, is this where I use a /. I have played alot of ball in 19yrs. I have got it in my eye and been dropped to my knees from a shot to the ear at 10ft. I really dont wish to inflict that on another player. Do you?

The point is the ROF has increased, the range has decreased and the fps has stayed the same
They use to tell us this wasnt safe. This is why fullauto and the SMG was banned. Users were getting to close and causing harm. What makes it safe now. Must be an I.A.D.S.P.B.P. thing

Be SAFE
Play FAIR
Have FUN

Peace Out

[Thordic]

No, I don't think its particularly dangerous. I've been playing paintball for 8 years now, and I've gotten shot under multiple circumstances from multiple distances at multiple speeds. Some shots I barely felt, and some shots hurt like hell and left really nasty welts, but I don't believe there is a very large chance for injury resulting from a single paintball strike delivered at the legal velocity.

You can disagree with me all you want, but I think the odds of being injured by such a strike are very small. I've been hit in the neck and head, sometimes quite painfully, many times, and none of the hits have some close to causing injury. At NJAO2, I took a shot to the top of the head from about 2" away as I got bunkered. It bled some, and left a nasty welt, but I'd hardly call that a real injury.

Granted, with higher ROF the odds will go up some. But I've never been a proponent of high ROF. I don't believe lowering velocity is any sort of answer. At 280-300 FPS the trajectory of a paintball is still pretty bad, lowering it will only make the game more frustrating. Get the ROF under control, and you get the odds of an injury under control as well. You're looking at the wrong angle, IMO.

[Lohman446]

I've been hit in the neck and head, sometimes quite painfully, many times, and none of the hits have some close to being painful.

:confused:

Though I do agree with you, the risk of being injured in game is minimal. However, the concern is, every ball in the air increases that risk, and ROF keeps rising. I haven't quit playing yet, nor would I in the forseeable future because of safety risks.

[Thordic]

Ugh thats what I get for trying to write out a post quickly as I'm doing work. Fixed.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

I agree with Thor and Lohmann that while paintball can be painful, it is not really dangerous, presuming we use the standard safety gear. It is a bit riskier with higher ROF, the smaller fields and the tactic of bunkering. But for those of us who are concerned about that, we just need to mind who we play with, and stick with people who play safely.

I've always said that the beauty of paintball is its flexibility. You can play however you want. You just need to find people who want to play the same way.

[Lohman446]

Ugh thats what I get for trying to write out a post quickly as I'm doing work. Fixed.

I'm still trying to teach myself the difference between accept and except, but nobody called me on that :D . And I knew what you meant, just couldn't resist

[Thordic]

I'm still trying to teach myself the difference between accept and except, but nobody called me on that :D . And I knew what you meant, just couldn't resist

I always had more trouble with affect and effect, personally :)

[rkjunior303]

I always had more trouble with affect and effect, personally :)

affect can be an action (ie. the wind affects you how? it makes you cold)
effect can be an adjective (ie. the special effect in that movie was cool)

;)

(Brian just doesn't want to get shot in the neck because Christina will think he's cheating on her)

/hickeys are so high-school, bri!
//huked on fonicks werked for me!

[Beemer]

When did this turn into Grammar class? :tard:


I would :tard:. I wear neck protection because my local field requires it, 7 years back a kid was hit in the throut and everyone left the field except for him (not Know this) until the next game someone found him passed out, he could hardly breathe and the air med team came and flew him out of there. He was fine after two day in the hospital.

^Did ya miss this one?[required]

Ask the guy down at Liberty Paintball, LLC, what happened to a young lady that got hit in the head at aprox. 25ft at field limit of 299. She went down. How come I am seeing that LLC more and more. Must be a CYA thing. Its not Dangerous.

How did you vote Lohman?

No comment on the clip.


I took a shot to the top of the head from about 2" away as I got bunkered. It bled some, and left a nasty welt, but I'd hardly call that a real injury.

Tell me that didnt leave a nice bruse to. Talk to a neurologist and he would disagree with that.


but I don't believe there is a very large chance for injury resulting from a single paintball strike delivered at the legal velocity.
Then you shouldnt mind one shot at 15ft. at legal velocity, Right? Its just a test for the good of Paintball.

Well the key words here are single and legal. With the game changeing the way it is and more and more uneducated uninformed people playing the odds are going up.

Look at that new vents gog. It offers LESS protection. Ya I want one of those.


Granted, with higher ROF the odds will go up some. But I've never been a proponent of high ROF. I don't believe lowering velocity is any sort of answer. At 280-300 FPS the trajectory of a paintball is still pretty bad, lowering it will only make the game more frustrating. Get the ROF under control, and you get the odds of an injury under control as well. You're looking at the wrong angle, IMO.

What angle would that be. I see the whole picture. I dont promote high ROF either. 1 shot 1 pull, period.[ASTM Standard] Yes at range the trajectory aint that good but at 25ft or less it aint to bad. I agree with the control part to.



I agree with Thor and Lohmann that while paintball can be painful, it is not really dangerous, presuming we use the standard safety gear. It is a bit riskier with higher ROF, the smaller fields and the tactic of bunkering. But for those of us who are concerned about that, we just need to mind who we play with, and stick with people who play safely.

I've always said that the beauty of paintball is its flexibility. You can play however you want. You just need to find people who want to play the same way.
Then you voted yes? Its only one shot and it aint dangerous.
As for the rest thanks I know. I know the risk as soon as the gogs come down and the safety goes off. I wont let you hurt me,been playing to long and I wont hurt you cause I know better, but I WILL shoot you.

It is obvious the industry doesnt care and wont follow Safety standards. When do we start careing. I still want to play 10yrs from now, if I aint dead and can still walk. :cheers:

Shartley got it right. Full head and neck protection. Now pass it on.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, is it not?

Peace Out

[Lohman446]

Nah, taking a shot to the head or neck "wrong" represents a distinct risk. However, it is not high enough of a risk to prevent me from playing, or to convince me to wear full head or neck protection. I accept the risk associated with my actions.

[Jackel411]

Time for me to and my 2 cents in..


If I was just standing in a test setting and you shot me in the neck or head it would yield a different result that while playing. Most of you may not relize this but adrenalin is a big factor in the game. Ive been shot from 10 feet away while reffing in the side of my stomach and I was whining and yet Ive taken the same shot while playing and noticed the pain but it didnt phase me... Hell... Ive played against some people where the adrenalin was so high we point blanked each other twiece once in the head and once in the leg each and we still didnt acknowledge the shots. Ahhhh botched bunkering in a pump game.. fun fun.


So what can I say any results from a static test is seriously skewed to show more pain effect

[Beemer]

Nah, taking a shot to the head or neck "wrong" represents a distinct risk. However, it is not high enough of a risk to prevent me from playing, or to convince me to wear full head or neck protection. I accept the risk associated with my actions.

So then it would be correct to say you would bunker someone else if they didnt have head or neck protection, because you think, know, believe or guess their risk of injury is acceptable to you. Thats the catch. I have to TRUST other players with my safety in all regards. :eek:


So what can I say any results from a static test is seriously skewed to show more pain effect

What you are talking about is Endorphins. You may not feel it for awhile but the injury will still be there

[Lohman446]

So then it would be correct to say you would bunker someone else if they didnt have head or neck protection, because you think, know, believe or guess their risk of injury is acceptable to you. Thats the catch. I have to TRUST other players with my safety in all regards.

I trust that the players in the game I play know the risks of playing and have taken appropriate measures to ensure there safety. For the record I offer surrender options when bunkering anyone that is not playing at "the same level" (not meant to sound conceited) I am. Those that play at the same level I do have to have some responsibility to know the likely events of a game and take steps to make the risk acceptable to themselves. I can't say as I have played with anyone, to the best of my knowledge, that would intentionally aim for the head or neck in a bunker move, not to say I have not taken the fair share of hits to the head at extremely close range.

And in regards to trusting other players. You trust them less than I do, hence feeling the need (or appearing to) for full head and neck protection. You play under circumstances that are acceptable to your level of trust. I may be off in my risk assessment of course, but I don't beleive I am.

[Thordic]

affect can be an action (ie. the wind affects you how? it makes you cold)
effect can be an adjective (ie. the special effect in that movie was cool)

;)


I know the difference now, dip**** :)

[TheTramp]

I voted no.

I wouldn't let you shoot me in the chest at 15ft for no reason. I certainly wouldn't let you shoot me in any sensitive area.

Do I think it's dangerous? Not enough that I wouldn't risk getting shot in those areas.

For the most part, getting hit with a paintball hurts. At least in a game you're keyed up and running etc. Just taking a shot to the neck from close by when you're just standing there waiting for is foolish IMHO. I know that I certainly don't need to prove that I can "take it."

[Jeffy-CanCon]

Then you voted yes? Its only one shot and it aint dangerous.

I voted No. I don't think it's really dangerous, but it would almost certainly be painful. I'm not a big fan of pain. :rolleyes:

None of us likes to get lit up, or shot at close range, and so my friends and I don't play that way. There is almost no bunkering or close range shooting. And when not playing with pump guns, we normally abide by a 3-shot rule. That's what I meant about finding people who play the style you want.

Beemer, you do have a point about safety being disregarded. Many players and field-owners are casual about safety. Paintballs main problem, IMNSHO, is that it isn't a sport, but an industry. There is no governing body to set standards for rules and safety. Field owners and event organizers do whatever they think is going to make them the most money, tempered only by the demands of their insurance companies. Only if the insurance companies insist on more safety will it come.

In the meantime, I suggest everyone find a field and/or group of players that has the same attitude towards safety as themselves, and play there.

[mobsterboy]

neck shots are touchy subjects with paintmagnet
i do remember good stories of this... :rolleyes:

[PumpPlayer]

Beemer, I think we all see your point, but I think you're going about proving it in the wrong way.

I voted "no" simply because I'm not going to let you shoot me anywhere just for the hell of it. What sense does that make? "Hey, this'll be fun, let me shoot you." Yeah, great idea.


One could ALSO argue that even with neck protection, the bottom of your chin is still exposed. You're looking up a hill, the sun glares in your eyes, you tilt your head slightly to the side so the visor blocks it, a lucky shot gets under your mask and hits the bottom of your jaw.

Would it hurt? Hell yes it would.
Is it a likely enough occurence to warrant a specific protective item? I don't think so.

I don't wear neck protection and I don't wear a cup. In years of playing, you're bound to take a few shots to both areas. Did it hurt? Yes. In fact, the last time I got "tipped", I had to sit out a few games to recover. It happens occasionally, but the risk just isn't high enough for most people to want to wear the gear. It's not because of ignorance, it's just a risk-reward that we're willing to take.

That said, I don't play anywhere with a 300 FPS limit. Not that it really matters.