american flag

[master_alexander]

so today i was in the car and on the truck in front of me there was this guy and he had the american flag on his car, but it was upside down. what does this mean? i figure its bad, i really dont know.

also me and my parents were talking and my mom found this magazine of pictures of soldiers, and the american flags on their uniforms are backwards. is there some sort of symbolism there?

/discuss...

[Carbon]

upside down flag means distress.

The flags on the soldier uins arent backwards. The stars are facing forward on the right side and the star are facing forward on the left. The flags are attached in a way to make them look like they are "facing forward" kinda like when a flag is blowing in the wind on a flag pole. In this case it makes it look like the soldier is "running forward".

[SCpoloRicker]

Section 8.a: The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.

/you know, like Kelo

[Warewolf50]

whats that movie wiht the prison and the prisoners rebel so they can put the flag up upsidedown and call for help casue the warden is evil or someting like that.

[kosmo]

Last Castle

[Pacifist_Farmer]

yep thats the one, but if I remember correctly, he never puts the flag upside down, and he still wins!

[Steelrat]

yep thats the one, but if I remember correctly, he never puts the flag upside down, and he still wins!

If you consider dying to be winning, then you're right, he won.

[SpitFire1299]

If you consider dying to be winning, then you're right, he won.
He won by raising the flag..

He lost by dieing.

[Alpha]

Pretty cool movie. I like how the pussy general gets owned by just about everyone at the end.

As stated, flag upside down = distress (but a lot of idiots think its disrespectful to do it, so they do it out of disrespect, ignorant of what the upside-down flag ctually symbolizes)...

Also as stated, Flag backwards on uniforms = to make it look like its flapping back as if the soldier was advancing.

Look up the flag code. Its not TOO long, but I think any american should know how to properly display their colors.

[slade]

maybe hes just dyslexic.

[Recon by Fire]

The car with the upside down flag was just some liberals crying about the nation being in peril because there is a republican in office. Next time run them off the road.

[Eagle]

Maybe he was a stunt man preparing to flip his car? :D

If I saw that, I'd flip it right side up, and if he had a problem with it, the law is on my side. A couple years ago, the CEO of McD's croaked, and one of the local sotre had the ensign at half mast, and I just happened to have my command cover in the car at the moment. I went inside, demanded to speak to the manager, and proceed to go off on him, when he threatned to call the cops beacuse I refused to calm down, I told him to go for it, that the law was on my side. At that point, I went out, and I raised the flag.

[SCpoloRicker]

The car with the upside down flag was just some liberals crying about the nation being in peril because there is a republican in office. Next time run them off the road.


Again: Kelo. Seriously.

/Libertarian

[Recon by Fire]

I really don't care what their political views are, I just think it is in bad taste. I would think the same if a republican flew their flag upside down during Pres. Clinton's terms.

[Alpha]

Mcdonalds is really horrible with flags. Theres one outside my school, and I can remember freshman year the flag was never taken down at night (and no illumination was provided), and it was ripped, to the point where one of the clasps came off and it was hanging by only one. We tried to take it down, but they had the base where the cords are mounted locked up. They finally took it down weeks later.

[Willystyle21]

"Look up the flag code. Its not TOO long, but I think any american should know how to properly display their colors."

Thats the problem Alpha. Not too many people in this country want to be Americans. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness usually corralates to "you owe me just beacuase I'm in this country". I'm very cynical towards alot of people after alot of years in the military especially towards those who do not have the intestinal fortitude to show proper reverance towards OUR colors.

[bleachit]

Mcdonalds is really horrible with flags. Theres one outside my school, and I can remember freshman year the flag was never taken down at night (and no illumination was provided), and it was ripped, to the point where one of the clasps came off and it was hanging by only one. We tried to take it down, but they had the base where the cords are mounted locked up. They finally took it down weeks later.


call McDonald's coroporate headquarters or whatever next time you see that. Companies seem to be very willing to comply to complaints just about anything... especially something like that.

[Head knight of Ni]

The car with the upside down flag was just some liberals crying about the nation being in peril because there is a republican in office. Next time run them off the road.

So katrina is not applicable?

[SCpoloRicker]

... during Pres. Clinton's terms.


http://www.idcomm.com/personal/n0vse/clinton%20elian.jpg


Just kidding. :)

Actually, I understand what you mean; and its a responsible and intellectually honest opinion.

Good on you. :cheers:

[ThePixelGuru]

Heh, I remember at my high school when one of my friends accidentally hung the flag upside down. People only realized it when someone driving by stopped to make sure everything was OK.

[Steelrat]

http://www.idcomm.com/personal/n0vse/clinton%20elian.jpg


Just kidding. :)

Actually, I understand what you mean; and its a responsible and intellectually honest opinion.

Good on you. :cheers:

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, great pic.

[rkjunior303]

Also as stated, Flag backwards on uniforms = to make it look like its flapping back as if the soldier was advancing.

Exactly. The flag on uniforms with the stars facing forward is to symbolize the army is always pushing forward, rather than retreating..

[hardr0ck68]

The car with the upside down flag was just some liberals crying about the nation being in peril because there is a republican in office. Next time run them off the road.

Maybe it was some Neo-con who thinks his government is in distress because he pays taxes

OR

Maybe it could be a Vet, who thinks out nation is in distress for becoming an aggressor

OR

Maybe a White supremist who believes our government is in extreme danger; as blacks are in positions of authority

OR

Maybe it was me, who is in great distress after reading your retarded comment

[Recon by Fire]

Maybe it was me, who is in great distress after reading your retarded comment

This is AO, take your BS elsewhere..... I said regardless, it is in bad taste, just as you are obviously.

bye-bye :cry:

[Alpha]

Come on guys, lets all hold hands.

Why cant wee be friends :cheers: :dance: :clap: :headbang:

[SCpoloRicker]

This is AO, take your BS elsewhere..... I said regardless, it is in bad taste, just as you are obviously.

bye-bye :cry:


The car with the upside down flag was just some liberals crying about the nation being in peril because there is a republican in office. Next time run them off the road.
12-02-2005 08:47 PM

Only certain flavors of BS are allowed now? :rolleyes:

[M98Punk]

As a former and current when break starts, Mcdonalds employee I'll let you in on a secret, the people that work for 6.50 a hour because there is nothing else local and consistant, generally don't give a quarter-pounder with cheese....hold the pickle... about the condition of the flag outside, and most of the general managers don't want to bother with the effort of changing the flags...mostly because of the overpriced flags from their providers (who they have to buy from). So it's not really a lack of patriotism but a excess of capitalism that drives the poor conditions of Mcdonalds flags.
Oh and the half mast thing I vaugely remember the corperation sending out a fax that said we were supose to hang the flag low, but it may have just been the mcdonalds flag.

...And before any of you silly people want to call me unAmerican or whatever I almost got fired when I lowered the flag to half mast september 12th oh so long ago


*We find the use of cursive language distasteful, uneeded, and a sign of poor education and upbringing. Should you insist upon continuing with your breaking of the forum rules, a ban will be effected. Army*

[tropical_fishy]

Only certain flavors of BS are allowed now? :rolleyes:

Don't question him, you unpatriot, you.

[Eagle]

As a former and current when break starts, Mcdonalds employee I'll let you in on a secret, the people that work for 6.50 a hour because there is nothing else local and consistant, generally don't give a **** about the condition of the flag outside, and most of the general managers don't want to bother with the effort of changing the flags...mostly because of the overpriced flags from their providers (who they have to buy from). So it's not really a lack of patriotism but a excess of capitalism that drives the poor conditions of Mcdonalds flags.
Oh and the half mast thing I vaugely remember the corperation sending out a fax that said we were supose to hang the flag low, but it may have just been the mcdonalds flag.

...And before any of you silly people want to call me unAmerican or whatever I almost got fired when I lowered the flag to half mast september 12th oh so long ago


Well, I know I drove past several McD's at that time, and about half had the corprate flag at half mast (thats fine by me) and the other half had the national ensign at half mast (unacceptable).

[TheDuelist]

To wear our country's flag properly, the field of stars should be worn closest to your heart. Thus, if your patch is to be worn on your LEFT sleeve, use a left flag. For patches worn on your RIGHT sleeve, use a "right" or "reversed field" flag. Since the law does not specifically address the positioning of the patch, a decision is left to the discretion of the organization prescribing the wear. Some elect to use the "left" flag on both sleeves. [Note: many states and cities have ordinances pertaining to the use of the flag; you may wish to contact the Attorney General of your state or the City Attorney's office regarding this matter.] If you are planning to wear only one patch, it is recommended that you wear a "left" flag on your left sleeve. Military guidelines specify that in support of joint or multi-national operations, the "right" flag is worn on the right sleeve, 1/4" below the shoulder seam or 1/8" below any required unit patches.

Here you go regarding that issue.

[UTDragun]

The car with the upside down flag was just some liberals crying about the nation being in peril because there is a republican in office. Next time run them off the road.
at least we have friends in texas! go UT, both of them!

[slade]

Why cant wee be friends :cheers: :dance: :clap: :headbang:
because our nation is in distress :ninja:

[M98Punk]

First I would apoligize for the swearing...generally I just let the filter take it out I've never had a problem with that till now. Is it really necessary to say that swearing is a sign of poor upbringing or education? If anything isn't it a sign of emotional respose that overwhelms elaborate thought? BUUUUT I'm curious as to why it's unacceptable to fly a flag at half mass Is it because it's not proper blah blah blah like burning a flag and such? Because people talk about how both are unacceptable but yet they never classified the perversion of America that is the Confederate Flag...now as a person of poor upbringing and education I know that the Confederates figuratively tore apart the flag of the Union taking their share of the stars and bars so really a Confederate flag is a shredded American flag... But I know somehow it's become a sign of states right (by people that have never read the Confederate Constitution obviously) So yeah when your gonna go after mcdonalds for honoring a dead guy why not go after Jimbo Skinhead and his good ole boys why you are at it.

[Army]

Apology accepted.

The CSA Battle Flag, the Southern Cross, is just that, the flag flown on the battlefield to rally troops. Elongated, it served as the CSA Naval Jack. It is NOT the national flag of the CSA. To call it an "perversion" actually does show the lack of education you have recieved about the War Between The States.

The "Stars And Bars", the official National Flag of the CSA, consisted of a circle of 7 white stars on a field of blue, against red stripes top and bottom, and one white stripe in the center. Stars were added as more states seceded from the Union. As the war raged on, new National flags were adopted that incorporated the Southern Cross on a white field. The very first CSA flag, was a simple blue field, with a lone white star centered (Texas still uses the star on blue)

That racist and subversive groups have used the Southern Cross as their symbol, says nothing about the honor and bravery of those men that fought and died for their version of America. Do NOT compare radical, evil groups with the good Soldiers that held the battle flag high.

As for flying at Half-Mast, only heads of state may be so honored. Anytime they are lowered for anyone else, is wrong.

[tropical_fishy]

That racist and subversive groups have used the Southern Cross as their symbol, says nothing about the honor and bravery of those men that fought and died for their version of America. Do NOT compare radical, evil groups with the good Soldiers that held the battle flag high.

Just out of curiousity, don't you think that those groups have perverted, twisted, and misrepresented the reason for the flag to the point where it's no longer a symbol of the aspirations of the South and is now more of a testimony to the racism that still runs rampant? I've never lived in the South, I don't know-- why do people still fly it? To remember what the South fought for, or for racist and subversive reasons?

[Army]

Just out of curiousity, don't you think that those groups have perverted, twisted, and misrepresented the reason for the flag to the point where it's no longer a symbol of the aspirations of the South and is now more of a testimony to the racism that still runs rampant? I've never lived in the South, I don't know-- why do people still fly it? To remember what the South fought for, or for racist and subversive reasons?
The battle flag is flown by those that still believe that the true reason for the war was just.

Ignorant people that see it, and instantly think "racist". Which means they have been force fed the wrong history of the war. The war had nothing to do with slavery (recall that Lincoln did not "free" the southern slaves until 1863). There is real racism everywhere, not just the American south. The flag represents nothing more than honor on the battlefield.

Again, that rotten lousy people fly it solely to provoke that angry response, is sad.

[tropical_fishy]

The battle flag is flown by those that still believe that the true reason for the war was just.

Ignorant people that see it, and instantly think "racist". Which means they have been force fed the wrong history of the war. The war had nothing to do with slavery (recall that Lincoln did not "free" the southern slaves until 1863). There is real racism everywhere, not just the American south. The flag represents nothing more than honor on the battlefield.

Again, that rotten lousy people fly it solely to provoke that angry response, is sad.

I realize the war had nothing to do with slavery. I don't think I'm ignorant, but I do think of racism when I see the flag-- I think of the KKK, and all the awful things that have been done under the banner of the Southern Cross. I guess that was my actual question... have all the bad things that have happened that have twisted the symbol in our minds made it an innappropriate thing to fly?

[Recon by Fire]

I think the ignorant ones are those who fly it as a symbol of their racism and instead do not even understand the actual symbolism.

I'm a displaced Yankee living in the South (well, Texas anyway).

[Army]

I realize the war had nothing to do with slavery. I don't think I'm ignorant, but I do think of racism when I see the flag-- I think of the KKK, and all the awful things that have been done under the banner of the Southern Cross. I guess that was my actual question... have all the bad things that have happened that have twisted the symbol in our minds made it an innappropriate thing to fly?
No. Many things not exactly "kosher" have been commited under the flag of the USA (genocide of the Indians etc), which does not diminish what the flag represents.

The KKK began as an honorable society to protect their way of life from northern "carpet-baggers"....that went horribly bad soon after.
Skinheads use the flag for its shock value, the same way they use the Swastika symbol and flags.

Real rednecks fly the flag out of American Southern Pride, not racism.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a198/Messkit/Fairandtankpics041.jpg

[Recon by Fire]

Only certain flavors of BS are allowed now? :rolleyes:


YES, the kind that is not disrespectful to the country that offers us so much.

[tropical_fishy]

YES, the kind that is not disrespectful to the country that offers us so much.

Bah. We have just as much a right to spout our BS as you do. You know what's disrespectful and goes against what this country stands for? Silencing someone because you don't like what they stand for.

Just sayin'.

[M98Punk]

I stand corrected, it has been a few years since I studied Civil War ear American history, I concentrate on Colonial to Revolution America...I actually dug thru my War and Peace notes and althought I didn't find the exact notes I confused a Confederate speech with fact...it was a solider that said we have taken our share.... But to say that the CSA was for states rights is as much a sham as saying Lincoln freed the slaves.

[Recon by Fire]

Bah. We have just as much a right to spout our BS as you do. You know what's disrespectful and goes against what this country stands for? Silencing someone because you don't like what they stand for.

Just sayin'.



I was being cynical :) He or anyone else can spout any BS they like, but disrespectful BS falls on my deaf ears.


YOUR WELCOME to those who would offer up disrespectful BS because I and others have fought and protected your rights to do so. Give that some thought next time you disrespect an icon of OUR nation.

[tropical_fishy]

I was being cynical :) He or anyone else can spout any BS they like, but disrespectful BS falls on my deaf ears.


YOUR WELCOME to those who would offer up disrespectful BS because I and others have fought and protected your rights to do so. Give that some thought next time you disrespect an icon of OUR nation.

I haven't said anything about disrespecting our flag. I asked army about the Southern Cross. That was the extent of my participation in the topic. But while I have no need for the glorified drama that is burning the flag or otherwise disrespecting it, some people feel that's the ideal way to make their point. I realize that the flag is sacred to a lot of people, but flag burning IS legal. The Supreme Court has upheld that some forms of symbolic speech are legal, flag burning one of them. Maybe I'm naive, but isn't that what you fought for? Our right to be complete imbeciles if we so choose? For America, and the system of government that we have? If that is what you fought for (and I'm not about to tell you that it is), you should consider having more respect for the people out there that don't share your opinion. You don't have to agree with me when I say that I dislike Bush a great deal, and I don't have to agree with you if you say you dislike ________ a great deal. But forbidding my-- or your-- right to say it is wrong. How is it different if someone's way of saying, "I don't agree with the way this country is going" is to burn the flag in a public forum?

[hardr0ck68]

I was being cynical :) He or anyone else can spout any BS they like, but disrespectful BS falls on my deaf ears.


YOUR WELCOME to those who would offer up disrespectful BS because I and others have fought and protected your rights to do so. Give that some thought next time you disrespect an icon of OUR nation.

Just one sec, I need clarification. Because you were in some form of service to the nation you expect me and or others to read your disrespectful BS, but when I reply in a similarly idiotic manner my statements are to be disregarded?

Army: I wonder what exactly did the Confederacy stand for?

EDIT: yeah i use spell check, and i got sloppy wounded instead of wonder...my bad

[Army]

Army: I wounded what exactly did the Confederacy stand for?
Better put a Band-aid on that wound :D:D

CSA was all about states rights, and less federal government in their daily lives. Recall, that only about 3% of southern farmers owned slaves in the south (until the 1850's about 35% of northern farmers did), which makes the war over slavery argument a silly one. Commerce protection was passed for many industries in the north, but southern textiles were left out and suffered internationally for it. Most federal roads and railways went east/west, rather than north/south(mostly because of geography), furthering the divide between the CSA and the Union.

The CSA believed that being independant of Washington beaurocracy would better serve their needs and lives. The Union did not think so. The result was war over ideologies.

Recall, that everyone involved in the war was an American first, Reb or Blue second.

[hardr0ck68]

That is what i thought you would say. I would like to point you to this page, you can read it here or from any other number of places: http://www.usconstitution.net/csa.html after reading that one could say it "makes the war over states rights argument a silly one."

If you read through you will notice that the CSA constitution was just about the same as the one we know and love today. I ask you to find for me and point out anything that would suggest the states would have more power than they do today, or did in the Union.

The truth is the Southers did not want to free their slaves, at the time maybe only 3% of southern farmers owned slaves but the slaves made up roughly 50% of the southern population I point you to: http://www.civilwarhome.com/population1860.htm


Say what you like about States rights, but Jefferson Davis had NO plans to give up the power of his new little government.

[Army]

That is what i thought you would say. I would like to point you to this page, you can read it here or from any other number of places: http://www.usconstitution.net/csa.html after reading that one could say it "makes the war over states rights argument a silly one."

If you read through you will notice that the CSA constitution was just about the same as the one we know and love today. I ask you to find for me and point out anything that would suggest the states would have more power than they do today, or did in the Union.

The truth is the Southers did not want to free their slaves, at the time maybe only 3% of southern farmers owned slaves but the slaves made up roughly 50% of the southern population I point you to: http://www.civilwarhome.com/population1860.htm


Say what you like about States rights, but Jefferson Davis had NO plans to give up the power of his new little government.

Yes, the US and CSA Constitutions are very much the same. The CSA wanted to adhere more closely to it, the US did not. It wasn't about giving up any power, it was about following the laws.

[M98Punk]

It wasn't about following the laws it was about interpertation of the laws.... and the southerns just wanting to be lazy...seriously they just couldn't give up Jim and his friends, the fact that is was many times cheaper to using immigrants from Europe just didn't float their boat. And the argument about the lack of infostructural help (may have just invented a work) is foolish, yeah they didn't get a equal share of build up of rails and roads...but there wasn't anything there and no one wanted to move down to the sparcly but still developed land in the South instead they wanted to go West where there was all that land that the Indians didn't need anymore. It's like the obnoxious rep for Alaska yelling about there not being enough bridges in Alaska.

[hardr0ck68]

Yes, the US and CSA Constitutions are very much the same. The CSA wanted to adhere more closely to it, the US did not. It wasn't about giving up any power, it was about following the laws.



By more closly you mean they wanted to see people who were African or AMERICAN born decendants of africansAS F'in PROPERTY?

It wasent enough they count 2/3 of a white PERSON (a human who is only counted as 2/3 of what they were given by birth) but that last 1/3 was undoubtly PROPERTY to be bought and sold as those wealthy 3% saw fit.

Thats what your stars and bars repersent, oppression, crouption and FILTH.

I only wish that radical reconstruction had lasted until the 1960's

[SCpoloRicker]

I'm out of this thread, but for the proverbial final shot:

Recon by Fire I never mentioned disrespecting any flag. Period. Full stop.

I offered a "we've got different views, your argument is sound." post. You chose to ignore that, and proceed to lump me in with rabid anti-American behavior and values. You obviously don't know my personal politics, and perhaps ironically, you'd probably agree with me on just about everything.

There are more appropriate places to discuss politics. I don't like to do it here, but...

You're wearing your bum for a hat. ;)

[kosmo]

From a factual point of view, the flag is a piece of cloth. Also, our constitution guarantees a right to freedom of speech. So if I have to put up with some yahoo sporting the stars and stripes on his truck with bumper stickers indicating that the flag stands for Kansas school boards preaching the bible as science and that god and our government hates gays, then that yahoo should also have to put up with some other (likely much more educated) yahoo turning the flag upside down because our presidential administration advocates torturing prisoners of war and places a higher priority on securing Iraqi oil fields than helping thousands impoverished hurricane survivors in our own country.

[Army]

By more closly you mean they wanted to see people who were African or AMERICAN born decendants of africansAS F'in PROPERTY?

It wasent enough they count 2/3 of a white PERSON (a human who is only counted as 2/3 of what they were given by birth) but that last 1/3 was undoubtly PROPERTY to be bought and sold as those wealthy 3% saw fit.

Thats what your stars and bars repersent, oppression, crouption and FILTH.

I only wish that radical reconstruction had lasted until the 1960's
Better look behind, your ignorance is hanging out for everyone to see.

[Army]

From a factual point of view, the flag is a piece of cloth. Also, our constitution guarantees a right to freedom of speech. So if I have to put up with some yahoo sporting the stars and stripes on his truck with bumper stickers indicating that the flag stands for Kansas school boards preaching the bible as science and that god and our government hates gays, then that yahoo should also have to put up with some other (likely much more educated) yahoo turning the flag upside down because our presidential administration advocates torturing prisoners of war and places a higher priority on securing Iraqi oil fields than helping thousands impoverished hurricane survivors in our own country.
Hmmmm, seems yours is too.

[Recon by Fire]

Flag burning = disrespect to the NATION.



FACT.

[kosmo]

Oh Im ignorant. Gee I guess that proves to me that Im wrong about everything Ive said, good argument. And the point to disrespecting the nation is because with the crap that is pulled in the name of the nation, it deserves to get disrespected every now and again.

[Recon by Fire]

And the point to disrespecting the nation is because with the crap that is pulled in the name of the nation, it deserves to get disrespected every now and again.


I truly feel bad for those out there who have such loathing for their native country. NO country or person out there should be living in a glass house.

You have made the best point of all..the problem with so many out there is RESPECT.

[Army]

Oh Im ignorant. Gee I guess that proves to me that Im wrong about everything Ive said, good argument. And the point to disrespecting the nation is because with the crap that is pulled in the name of the nation, it deserves to get disrespected every now and again.
Ummm...what?
Since you brought it up, please bring forth any actual proof of torture conducted by the USA. Oh, and don't bother with Abu Ghraib, that barely equaled a decent High School hazing.

One other thing, where does it say anywhere, that the US President is obligated to help anyone that refuses to take care of themselves? Also, I'd like to see where it says that the Federal Govt. is supposed to arbitrarily step all over the city and state authorities? Isn't the welfare of New Orleans during a pending disaster, fall directly on the shoulders of the Mayor and city elect? Doesn't the Governor have the duty to provide before/during/and after responses and relief when a Cat-5 hurricane is 4 days away?

Do you have any clue as to what FEMA actually does? I'll give you a quick hint, it isn't taking care of private citizens in lieu of city and state authority.

Yes, your ignorance is flapping in the wind.

[kosmo]

Recon, go ahead and make more words capitalized. It makes me agree with you more. And I dont loathe this country. If I did, I seriously doubt I would be an nco in its army. I loathe idiots who do stupid things in the name of the nation and then say Im being disrespectful to the nation for arguing with those stupid actions. I also loathe idiots who dont do those stupid things, and yet still argue that I cant denounce those stupid things because it disrespects the country. Our country is built upon the knowledge that the government is going to screw the pooch and our people have the right to say and do something about it.

Army, if you seriously think that we arent torturing people, youre blind. If I ever find any unclassified proof of it, Ill be sure to link it. For now just go ahead and write a letter to Senator McCain and tell him that he shouldnt be pushing for anti torture legislation because it is a waste of his time to outlaw something we dont do anyway, and see what he says. And when youre done writing that letter, go ask VP Cheney why he is lobbying for exceptions to the no cruel and inhuman treatment rule so the CIA can get information from terrorists. And as for Katrina, you can write another letter on that one too. This one goes to Mr Bush himself. Go ahead and ask him why he said the federal government did not do its job right. Because according to you they apparently did. Theres a wealth of information on the internet about the failings of the government at all levels, federal, state, and city. If its not too disrespectful to your precious country, I would advise you educate yourself on it.

[Army]

OK, so no proof of torture, and no answers about Katrina.

What exactly was the Federal Governments job concerning state and municipal responsibilities?

[nippinout]

Recon, go ahead and make more words capitalized. It makes me agree with you more. And I dont loathe this country. If I did, I seriously doubt I would be an nco in its army. I loathe idiots who do stupid things in the name of the nation and then say Im being disrespectful to the nation for arguing with those stupid actions. I also loathe idiots who dont do those stupid things, and yet still argue that I cant denounce those stupid things because it disrespects the country. Our country is built upon the knowledge that the government is going to screw the pooch and our people have the right to say and do something about it.

Army, if you seriously think that we arent torturing people, youre blind. If I ever find any unclassified proof of it, Ill be sure to link it. For now just go ahead and write a letter to Senator McCain and tell him that he shouldnt be pushing for anti torture legislation because it is a waste of his time to outlaw something we dont do anyway, and see what he says. And when youre done writing that letter, go ask VP Cheney why he is lobbying for exceptions to the no cruel and inhuman treatment rule so the CIA can get information from terrorists. And as for Katrina, you can write another letter on that one too. This one goes to Mr Bush himself. Go ahead and ask him why he said the federal government did not do its job right. Because according to you they apparently did. Theres a wealth of information on the internet about the failings of the government at all levels, federal, state, and city. If its not too disrespectful to your precious country, I would advise you educate yourself on it.

Well this certainly went off topic.

To continue down this road, I'm not a supporter of torture, in most instances. For instance, if another large terrorist attack was about to occur, I would have no reservations over torturing a captive terrorist for intelligence to prevent it. If we could have prevented the attacks of September 11 through the use of torture, I would have supported it. The lives of 3,000 innocent Americans is more important than the humane treatment of a terrorist with a death wish to kill those 3,000 Americans.

[Recon by Fire]

Kosmo, this thread is about improper flag display. As an NCO in the Army, flag burning and or improper display does not bother you? It should, if it doesn't I am very sory to hear that.

[master_alexander]

there was a video clip of this guy who burned an american flag (somewhere in iraq) and they waved it around and a few people got badly burned. (who didnt like the U.S) the title was "why to not burn the american flag". it was funny.

[Eagle]

there was a video clip of this guy who burned an american flag (somewhere in iraq) and they waved it around and a few people got badly burned. (who didnt like the U.S) the title was "why to not burn the american flag". it was funny.

Yeah, I think I know the one you're talking about. It was a day or two after September 11th, but it was Pakastan, not Iraq. Anyways, I posted a newspaper pic of it on a bulletin board on ship where it stayed for over a year.

[M98Punk]

Recon I am rather curious just how high up that horse is that you ride on... And I do not loathe this country, I for one love it. I loathe people like yourself who believe in one very ignorant, Go america!, Quarter pounder hold the pickle the rest of the world, belief. People who think they have a right to dictate how I express my freedom, I have no need for some uncultured grunt to tell me how I should support America, if only because history shows people with ideals of freedom as pale as their skin manage to lose every war they fight. Now I'm sure your going to tell me about a great list of American wars that us bleeding heart librrrrals didn't want to get into that we won, and I will counter with facts that prove that we didn't and you'll ignore them, we just took claim for others victory cause thats really the history of America, from the Revolution where our victory came from the French ships and cannons that magically appeared right about the same time the British surrendered, to the Cold War which we won by building up masses of weapons that we didn't use. While millions of brave people did something America has never managed to do the staged non-violent revolutions in Poland, the Hungary, then German, czech republic...and so on which again in total coincedence corresponed with the collapse of the USSR. I mean we all know that it was SDI that protected us like it does today...oh wait.

Y'all know how to read (yes I did say Y'all this Northie is 1/2 southern) so how bout your try reading something other then AO posts...try reading the Magic Lantern by Timothy Garton Ash It's the number one book on Punk's the world isn't a big American state reading list.

[hardr0ck68]

Recon I am rather curious just how high up that horse is that you ride on... And I do not loathe this courntry, I for one love it. I loathe people like yourself who believe in one very ignorant Go america, Quarter pounder hold the pickle the rest of the world belief. People who think they have a right to dictate how I express my freedom, I have no need for some uncultured grunt to tell me how I should support America, if only because history shows people with ideals of freedom as pale as their skin manage to lose every war they fight. Now I'm sure your going to tell me about a great list of American wars that us bleeding heart librrrrals didn't want to get into that we won, and I will counter with facts that prove that we didn't and you'll ignore them, we just took claim for others victory cause thats really the history of America, from the Revolution where our victory came from the French ships and cannons that magically appeared right about the same time the British surrendered, to the Cold War which we won by building up masses of weapons that we didn't use. While millions of brave people did something America has never managed to do the staged non-violent revolutions in Poland, the Hungary, then German, czech republic...and so on which again in total coincedence corresponed with the collapse of the USSR. I mean we all know that it was SDI that protected us like it does today...oh wait.

Y'all know how to read (yes I did say Y'all this Northie is 1/2 southern) so how bout your try reading something other then AO posts...try reading the Magic Lantern by Timothy Garton Ash It's the number one book on Punk's the world isn't a big American state reading list.




Better watch out or some self rightious mod who cant compose a decent fact based argument will tell you "your ignorance is hanging out" which i believe is southern code for "i got nothing"

[SCpoloRicker]

Better watch out or some self rightious mod who cant compose a decent fact based argument will tell you "your ignorance is hanging out" which i believe is southern code for "i got nothing"

Army lives in Central CA...

[kosmo]

No, improperly displaying the flag does not bother me. I am proud to be in an army that defends peoples rights to do so.

[M98Punk]

Better my ignorance be hanging out, then hiding behind a flag or a uniform.

[Army]

Better my ignorance be hanging out, then hiding behind a flag or a uniform.
Hiding? I'm right here, serving my country for the last 17 years under the flag that represents her. I've been to Iraq. I've been to Germany. I've been to Kuwait. I've been to Luxembourg. I've been to England. I've seen it, lived it, explored it, researched it, and have concluded by it, that the USA really is better than any other country. How many immigrants are caught trying to get OUT of the USA?

But you would rather be ignorant? That's OK too.

[AO Moderation Team]

Closed. Army, don't pick on the kiddies.