For all you Tippmann C3 owners

[Muzikman]

I was looking for something totally unrelated, but ran across this. Thought maybe those people with the C3 could get use out of one of these.

http://www.truckspring.com/maccoupler/product/maccoupler.asp

[rkjunior303]

That's a great idea

[SlartyBartFast]

So, after pumping 50,000 shots, you can refill. :p

[Muzikman]

Slarty, you know it!

Hell, for $17 the money you would save having to buy the disposible tanks would pay for it's self pretty quick. Just fill it up from the gas grill before you leave for a day of play and you are golden.

[ThePixelGuru]

That'd last me a lifetime... It's what, a 40lb tank? 50,000 shots per lb? So like 2 million shots... from a pump. Cool, though. Talk about gas efficiency. Your fill will outlast your marker.

[Geoff Call]

I'm pretty sure it's illegal to fill those disposable tanks. Not to mention dangerous. Just my 2 cents...

We just got those C3 markers in at work and they scare the absolute heck out of me.

"What manner of man are you that can summon up fire without flint or tinder?"

[SlartyBartFast]

That adapter can't be all that good (besides possibly being illegal).

Propane is stored as a liquid, just like CO2. The adapter will only fill the attached tank with gas and not liguid. If you were to fill with liquid, you risk overfilling, which is dangerous and the reason the valves on 20ld propane tanks were changed.

:argh:

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

im guessing disposable propane tanks don't have burst disks?

[Skoad]

come on now, a standard coleman camp sized propane tank is like 3 bucks.....

I'm still waiting for the 12gram propane tanks, who here can math wizard up a shot count on something like that? Got to be decent ;)

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

50,000 shots per pound divided bt 2.2 = 22727.27kg divided by 1000 = 22.73 multiplied by 12 = 272.73

uhh i think i did that correctly.
12gram propane cartridge = 272-273 shots?

[KJHawley]

"What manner of man are you that can summon up fire without flint or tinder?"


There are some who call me... Tim?...

[OneEyedPimp]

50,000 shots per pound divided bt 2.2 = 22727.27kg divided by 1000 = 22.73 multiplied by 12 = 272.73

uhh i think i did that correctly.
12gram propane cartridge = 272-273 shots?

Somehow that does not sound right:

You get 50,000 shots for every 454.4 grams(roughly converted) that means that you would get approximately 38 twelve grams which means that you would get approximately 1316 shots off of one twelve gram.

I could be wrong.

[Vex]

That adapter can't be all that good (besides possibly being illegal).

Propane is stored as a liquid, just like CO2. The adapter will only fill the attached tank with gas and not liguid. If you were to fill with liquid, you risk overfilling, which is dangerous and the reason the valves on 20ld propane tanks were changed.

:argh:
If getting any liquid into the tank is a bad and (possibly) a dangerous thing, then how is it exactly that this adapter is not "all that good" if it fills the tank with gas only?

:argh:

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

great here we go with the math

50,000/1000*12 = 600 shots per 12gram?

great... now im getting 1,322

convert pounds to kg, from kg to grams. get the shots per so many grams divide the grams by 12 to get some number and use that number to divide 50,000 and in the end i get 1,322...

i realized my mistake with my first and second calculations... and now i've come to my third which results in 1,322 shots =) lets hope im right with this one

[blamtro]

The adaptor is safe and legal. However, the only limitation is that disposable propane tanks used by the C3 and other camping equipment are not DOT compliant once refilled. Meaning, you can not transport them in your car once refilled.

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

The adaptor is safe and legal. However, the only limitation is that disposable propane tanks used by the C3 and other camping equipment are not DOT compliant once refilled. Meaning, you can not transport them in your car once refilled.

but how often are rules enforced? this is paintball, cheating is practically party of the sport now. You have to wait for someone to get seriously injured before anyone will do something

[bentothejam1n]

I dont get how you would know if its full. Would the tank just stop filling?? sounds kinda like a waste of money to me

[blamtro]

but how often are rules enforced? this is paintball, cheating is practically party of the sport now. You have to wait for someone to get seriously injured before anyone will do something

You are the kind of person they make rules for. Its a $10,000 dollar fine and/or 5 years if you are caught. Just don't try and sue anyone when you blow off your arm or face.

[benzy2]

I dont get how you would know if its full. Would the tank just stop filling?? sounds kinda like a waste of money to me
Well if its a 1lb tank and this allows liquid to transfer over then it would seem you would weigh it just like co2. If you can only fill it with gas it would just stop filling well short of 1lb and wouldnt seem to be a saftey issue, still may be very illegal though. Also couldnt you fill liquid into the tank by just flipping the bigger tank upside down?

[SlartyBartFast]

If getting any liquid into the tank is a bad and (possibly) a dangerous thing, then how is it exactly that this adapter is not "all that good" if it fills the tank with gas only?:argh:

No. Not ANY liquid. But, ALL liquid.

As it is, that adapter will only fill the small tank with propane gas. If you were to 'tip up' the bulk tank, you could fill with liquid. But, that would require a scale to ensure that the small tank is not over filled.

When you need small tanks, they're relatively cheap. When you don't want to use small tanks, for the same price as the "fill" adapter you can get a hose and adapter to attach the appliance directly to the bulk tank.

[punkncat]

LP is filled by liquid weight, not by gas volume.

Filling a portable tank with the adapter they are showing will not be effective. There is no dip tube so you are just equalizing the gas pressure of the two, not filling with liquid to pull your gas from.

It would be like filling a co2 tank off just gas. It would have pressure for a second and then go flat, because there is no liquid to convert.

With that adapter there is no way to weigh your liquid volume(assuming you could even pull up liquid). So in that it is unsafe. Technically anyone doing LP fills is supposed to be trained and certified to do so. Although honestly in my own experiance, unless you are stupid enough to be smoking or doing it next to a pilot light all you can really do is give yourself a hellified frostbite.

[benzy2]

exactly. It would though be a much better idea to get a fill station setup such as those for co2. Because you weigh propane you NEED to know what the tank weighs empty and you NEED to know how much propane you have filled. A scale and hose setup like for co2 would be able to give a normal guy a safe, if illegal, fill.

[TheTramp]

In the end, this really isn't a real danger. It'll only fill to whatever the vaporization pressure is (~800psi for CO2 but who knows for propane) and stop. You can't do the tilting thing to get liquid because of the new valves the bulk tanks have. No real worries about over filling. (Yes I know that someone could somehow make it happen but I’m sticking with realities.)

You'd probably just end up getting a lot less shots off your newly "filled" 1lb tank. I have no idea how many but I'd assume it'd be really small. Like 1000 tops.

Personally I’m just not cheap enough to not spring for the $4 it would take to get the full 50,000 shots out of a new tank.

As far as the idea about getting caught with a non-DOT (re-filled) tank….how on earth could anyone tell it’d been refilled?

[Muzikman]

I looked and from what I can tell as long as you don't take the tank across state lines you are fine. Also, the instructions for filling tell you to chill the 1lb tank before filling. Using this method they say you can not over fill it but you will suck liquid propane into the tank. I have also looked and there are MANY companies that sell these so they can't be all that bad. Cabela's is just one of those companies, if they were really that dangerous I am sure they wouldn't be selling it.

[TheTramp]

That's good to hear.

As long as you get some liquid in there it would be worth it. Just getting gas would be a waste of time IMHO.

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

You are the kind of person they make rules for. Its a $10,000 dollar fine and/or 5 years if you are caught. Just don't try and sue anyone when you blow off your arm or face.

i'm explaining to you that there are people out there that just don't care about rules and will do things anyways. I also mentioned that people will only start to care when things go wrong. I don't get where me blowing off my arm or face comes into this discussion...

[blamtro]

i'm explaining to you that there are people out there that just don't care about rules and will do things anyways. I also mentioned that people will only start to care when things go wrong. I don't get where me blowing off my arm or face comes into this discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuiciDal Sn Y p ER
but how often are rules enforced? this is paintball, cheating is practically party of the sport now. You have to wait for someone to get seriously injured before anyone will do something


It sounded to me like you were excusing the fact that the rule is difficult to enforce. Just because there is little chance of you being caught does not mean it is ok to do it.

[OneEyedPimp]

great here we go with the math

50,000/1000*12 = 600 shots per 12gram?

great... now im getting 1,322

convert pounds to kg, from kg to grams. get the shots per so many grams divide the grams by 12 to get some number and use that number to divide 50,000 and in the end i get 1,322...

i realized my mistake with my first and second calculations... and now i've come to my third which results in 1,322 shots =) lets hope im right with this one


Well, we are both rounding so as long as we are close. I converted the 16 ounces into grams instead of Kilograms.

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuiciDal Sn Y p ER
but how often are rules enforced? this is paintball, cheating is practically party of the sport now. You have to wait for someone to get seriously injured before anyone will do something


It sounded to me like you were excusing the fact that the rule is difficult to enforce. Just because there is little chance of you being caught does not mean it is ok to do it.

it's not ok to do it, but some will do it anyways because they can. field owners will probably be curious by the c3 being on their field but since there isn't all to much knowledge of the air source they will assume it's just another disposable propane cartridge. what i was getting at is that someone needs to do something wrong and get seriously hurt before anyone will start enforcing rules. co2 tanks and n2 tanks are easy to check since the dates are clearly printed on the tanks but with propane no one will check it because the user doesn't need to go to an air table to recieve a fill and have their tank checked. i know i kinda jumped around in all directions in that post but there were a lot of things on my mind about the c3 and its gas source :)

[SlartyBartFast]

approximately 1316 shots off of one twelve gram.

Well, isn't butane pretty close to propane? Could the C# work on butane? If so....

http://www.azuremoon.com/tek9.asp?pg=products&specific=jnlmpoe8 :clap:

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

$2.50 a 12gram... ouch...
i learned this in chemistry a while back but aren't there some big differences between butane and propane?

[ThePixelGuru]

Well, isn't butane pretty close to propane? Could the C# work on butane? If so....
...You try it first. I'm sure it would ignite, just not sure how much.

Not sure I would bother to get one of these refillers. For $17, i could buy like 5 small propane cylanders and get like 250,000 shots. Anyone have a pump they think they've put more than a quarter million shots through?

But, yeah. Tippmann should totally make a pistol with a clip loader that runs on 12g propane cartridges. That'd rock.

[TheTramp]

it's not ok to do it, but some will do it anyways because they can.

I have to say that it really seems ok to do it. The pressures involved are low and nothing is being damaged in the refill. In fact under normal circumstances, the vapor pressure at 100ºF is 172 psi.

I don't think that this is going to be a big issue. Of course 172psi can hurt someone but we let 10 year olds run arounf in the woods with 800psi CO2 tanks.

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

I have to say that it really seems ok to do it. The pressures involved are low and nothing is being damaged in the refill. In fact under normal circumstances, the vapor pressure at 100ºF is 172 psi.

I don't think that this is going to be a big issue. Of course 172psi can hurt someone but we let 10 year olds run arounf in the woods with 800psi CO2 tanks.

i was referring to the legal issues of the tanks and how it's illegal to transport them. but i can see where it would be wrong to refill a disposable propane tank. but if you know what you're doing than you know what you're doing, if you don't... good luck

[Geoff Call]

I personally wouldn't risk my life or that of anyone else to save 4 bucks on a disposable propane bottle. Think about it. 17.99 plus shipping you can probably afford 5 of those disposable tanks plus whatever it costs to get your grill tank purchased or filled. So, 5 tanks at 50,000 shots a pop thats 250000 shots, which is about 125 cases of paint. Let's say the average rec-ball player shoots a case per weekend. And a pump player goes through a bag a weekend. Thats 2 and a half years playing semi, or 10 years playing pump:) Happy Hunting.

-Geoff Call

:thanks to pixel guru for making this observation to start with:

[SlartyBartFast]

Propane and Butane are very similar in the way theybehave. The biggest difference seems to be the vaporization temperature:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/lpg1.htm

Propane is particularly useful as a portable fuel because its boiling point is -44 F (-42 C). That means that even at very low temperatures, it will vaporize as soon as it is released from its pressurized container. This results in a clean burning fuel that doesn't require a lot of equipment to vaporize it and mix it with air. A simple nozzle will suffice.
Butane's boiling point is approximately 31 F (-0.6 C), which means it will not vaporize in very cold temperatures. This is why butane has more limited uses and is mixed with propane instead of being used by itself.
A single pound of propane can generate 21,548 BTU (British Thermal Units) of energy, while butane can produce 21,221 BTU per pound [ref].

[yingyang]

How do you know if the tank is full or not? Sorry If it has been already asked.

[JRingold]

I personally wouldn't risk my life or that of anyone else to save 4 bucks on a disposable propane bottle. Think about it. 17.99 plus shipping you can probably afford 5 of those disposable tanks plus whatever it costs to get your grill tank purchased or filled. So, 5 tanks at 50,000 shots a pop thats 250000 shots, which is about 125 cases of paint. Let's say the average rec-ball player shoots a case per weekend. And a pump player goes through a bag a weekend. Thats 2 and a half years playing semi, or 10 years playing pump:) Happy Hunting.

-Geoff Call

:thanks to pixel guru for making this observation to start with:

A case a weekend playing semi? Damn, I must not be the average rec-baller. My last time out I went through four cases. :shooting: :shooting: Maybe I should stop hosing and start playing like a normal player.