What is the difference now?

[phantomhitman]

It is my turn to get all deep and ask a serious question. On almost a daily basis threads pop up in many forums talking about the golden age of paintball and how things have changed for the worse, the politics and money behind the sport now, the new hyped products, the bad aspects of each type of play, and everyone states the downfall of paintball since the old days. Everyone tip toes around the answer and never gives out reasons why they dont like it or what has really changed that they do not like. So I ask;
What do you NOT like about the sport now and why?

Is it:
the cost to play, the kids involved in the sport now, the speed of the guns, the faster speed of the game, the cheating/unsportmanslike conduct, the equipment costs, tourney scene, or what?

I can only think of one thing that I truly do not like about the game now, but it is not paintball's fault. Some people are just not mentally capable of playing the game. They argue about everything, play on, shoot you 10 or so times ON PURPOSE, and never give anyone credit for anything. Basically, they are unsportmanlike. I only know a few guys like this, and I always see a few on every field I go to wether its a tourney or just goofing around playing rec ball.
I do play tourneys, I do not like ramping, but I still play. I do not have problems with hyped products, fast guns/hoppers, and quick lethal games. I also do not mind pumps or strictly woodballers. I play anywhere, anytime, any game.

[11 Bravo]

I think its probably cheaper to play now than when I started. The only problem I have with paintball now is some of the players. They take themselves so serious. Those people need to get over themselves and realize its a game where we shoot each other with balls of goo. How serious can that be.

[hardr0ck68]

I also like how the prices have dropped. I dislike the way people tend to treat new players, each other, ref's, players with older gear....and well everyone. Theres a real crop of dopes in our sport now. I guess we are reaping what we have sown, as the community pushed for growth and an extream sports label for years; now we are bigger and more extream but filled to the brim with langers.

P.S. why doesnt the cuss filter catch the plural form of butt (i of course reffer to the slang term commonly used, 3 letters 2 of which are S's yeah you get it)

[Konigballer]

ditto with 11 Bravo.

The whole game has become so image conscious, almost class conscious really. With the advent of a much more visible form of the game in speedball, how you look and what you shoot, and the hype that goes along with both of those categories, moved to the forfront and became way to important.

When people cant afford the latest and greatest equipment they get trashed for it whether their a newb on his first day out or some guy who's been playing for 15 years. It's just gotten kind of ridiculous. Everybody trashes the younger players for being punks, but really they dont know any other form of the game, they were largely introduced to it when paintball was already being whored out into it's faster, uber-flashier self that it is today. This almost total emphasis within the industry on better, faster, flashier crap has probably played a part in the general decline in player conduct and manners among the newer crop of paintball players. However the industry leaders are probably making more money now than ever so I doubt we will see a shift away from this materialistic mentality within the game. The only real way to get away from that kind of scene is to play renegade with friends, but then that brings in all kinds of safety, and legal issues so it kind of sucks.

[phantomhitman]

So you guys are basically saying people are the cause, not the products? Remember, companys can hype wahtever they want but the consumer truly controls what is being made. Unfortunately people are the weak point in this sport that can either make or break something.......

[noodles]

I read all the topics like this and I can't understand half of what your guys see. The UK Woodsball and Scenario scene is a very close knitt and friendly enviroment and as far as I know the UK tournament scene is healthy and, although there is more of an emphasis on new flash gear, It doesn't seem to be anywhere near as bad as the scene in the US. I just hope the UK scene doesn't follow the same route the US ones appears to be following.

[hardr0ck68]

Yeah, its definatly the new players. The ones who feel the need to put 8 balls on a newb just cause they can. I see so many ramping markers out on rec games it sickens me. Come on kiddies, you can turn the ramping off and or down; but they wont because they are dead set on being agg.

Part of it is the lack of real levels of play, and the desire to rise to the top as fast as possiable.

[hardr0ck68]

I read all the topics like this and I can't understand half of what your guys see. The UK Woodsball and Scenario scene is a very close knitt and friendly enviroment and as far as I know the UK tournament scene is healthy and, although there is more of an emphasis on new flash gear, It doesn't seem to be anywhere near as bad as the scene in the US. I just hope the UK scene doesn't follow the same route the US ones appears to be following.


When i go to play with my college buddies we sit out if its newbs playing (indoor airball) but many other experianced guys wont, and on top of that they NEVER want to even up teams (based on skill not numbers). So you get games of 10 newbs V. 8 tourny regulars on a airball field. It doesnt take much immagination to figure out how many returning newbs they have.

[Boski51]

First things first; I love playing PB!

I hate some of the players. I play the game for the fun of it. Some folks do not. I love playing on teams with two types of player-the young guys and the old guys. Newbies are fun to watch play cuz they are just having a blast and doing the same stupid moves that I use to do. I love playing with the old pros cuz don't need to prove anything. They do this for the fun of it and can snap shoot anyone out without even trying.

Guys who play fair and have fun are what make this game a blast to play. However, there are those that yell, *****, cheat, whine and think they are the best thing on the field-without the skills to prove it. It only take a few of those type to ruin it for everyone.

My 2 cents.

[PumpPlayer]

Those type of people, hardrock, are indeed a problem. But that would be an unkind act no matter what game was in question and I don't think that it's particularly unique to paintball. You're always going to have a few bad apples.

As for younger kids not playing with dignity and respect, that's something that really has to be taught - preferably by a parent, but then... how many parents actually want to have anything to do with their kids? They'd rather just write the check and send them off the the field to get them out of their hair. Ask any paintball mom/dad what the rules of the game are. Ask them what the local field's chrono speed is. Ask them if they know what a chrono even is. More often than not, the response will be ignorance. That's the underlying problem, IMO. But again, that's nothing unique to paintball.


As I see it, the "problem" with paintball today, as well as the reason why it's better than ever, is the ammount of competition in the industry. On the one hand, it drives prices down and produces some better-quality product (some). But on the other, it drives away businesses that greatly contribute to the sport. The advertizing gets many people interested in the sport and there are now more places to play than ever before, but it also deludes those new people into thinking in certain ways. The "agg" kid, for example, is largely a combination of advertizing and the aforementioned ignorance.

I don't think paintball is going downhill. Yes, I still think it's more fun to play pump, but I can do that anytime I want...

[KJHawley]

I think it's the focus on pro teams, tournaments, television coverage, etc. Instead of playing for fun, you have starry eyed 13 year olds who are hoping to play paintball professionally when they "grow up". How many posts do you see on various boards about pro teams, TV coverage, whether paintball will become an Olympic sport, and all that? It's almost like if it's not on TV, it's not a "real" sport.

[benzy2]

The thing that kills me the most is the way people act. There are so many people today that want to make it big and are willing to stab everyone in the back to get ahead. I also find the recent turn to ultra fast guns less fun to play. It is much more entertaining for me to watch guys shoot a constant stream of 15bps but honestly as a fairly broke college kid the last thing on my mind is dumping a few hundred bucks on paint for the weekend. I dont have a problem with those who enjoy playing games with faster shooting guns but when I am automatically a newb because I shoot something mech is rediculous. I have played on and off over the last 10 or so years. Many people who have been playing for 2 months and started with, oh lets say and ion just to be steriotypical, think they have the right to rip me apart for a) not playing how they do, B) not having as "nice"(read new and hyped) equipment as they do, c) not being as "cool" of a player as them. I have always found in paintball that if you are happy nothing else matters. If I am having fun playing stock class with a bunch of other stock classers in the woods then thats great. If I am happy playing on a scenario field with a mech mag then great. If Im happy playing open division xball then great. Thats all that matters. Nobody has any right to rip on someone for playing a style they enjoy in paintball. Many of the newer players dont have that respect. Also a lot of players, and this goes extra for those who play with the more expensive guns using lots of paint, are well off financially. Im not saying everyone is rich or that everyone is handed the money to play but lets face it paintball is just entertainment to all but those making money off of it. Because some of the more spoiled players have never experienced hard times only being able to afford a bag of five hundred every other week or a month even many have no compassion for those who are restricted by money. I dont know how many times on online forums like pbn I see the response of "suck it up and pay for it. Just mow a few extra lawns so you can afford that new [insert something expensive here]." A lot of people have more than just paintball to pay for and god forbid they dont end up with money to spend freely on it. The responses are hardly ever "Yeah it sucks to be broke. I totally understand playing pump to save money." And when it is that response it is normally from someone who has played a while and has went through a decent pump and mech stage. Oh well I still have fun playing with the people around me so thats all that matters. If people want to be pricks about stuff for some stupid reason Ill just have to show them to the deadbox.

[phantomhitman]

Everyone is basically saying the same thing, it is the personality behind the gun. I have to agree......
About the parents not knowing about the game, I agree %110. I have seen less than 10 parents out watching their kid or playing with their kid in 2 years. I only know of 2 dads that regularly play with their kid and actually teach them morals while playing. Most of the idiots everyone speaks of are 14-16 year olds that just do not have a clue.

[phantomhitman]

That is true also.
I wanted to say this before, but I held off.
Back in the "golden days" of pb there were VERY few, if any, kids playing. The costs was simply too much and the sport didnt have a great image. Over the years the kids slid into the sport and somehow are taking it and making it theirs. Not to say there are no grown up jackass' running around too, but the younger crowd is being pointed out more than anyone else. It is quite obvious they do not care what image they potray as well as show how ignorantly they behave while acting embarasingly immature. The gun is a tool that just amplifys the idiot in people. There are always exception to the rule, but go to any field in the US and observe the truth.

[dahoeb]

i agree 100% with rogue and miscue.

heres an example of why i get so pissed off in paintball nowaday;

i was playing at camp pendleton paintball for a day of fun and adventure. i was in a trench and this guy came up behind me and didn't see me, he was about 20 feet away. i was completely exposed so i don't know how he didn't see me. while hes busy trying to empty as much as he can on my team, i take aim and fire 1 shot. i hit him but it clearly bounced, so i fire 1 more shot, which breaks on his chest.

i see him moving to put on his barrel sock and hes moving like hes about to crawl out of the trench and leave. in the meanwhile, i turn away and get ready to bunker of the last people on his team. all of a sudden i hear "IT BOUNCED IT BOUNCED!!" and before i can even turn around to see what exactly is going on, this guy absolutely lights me up. i was shot 6 times and he probably fired about 25-30 rounds toward me. keep in mind, i have no cover and am only 20ft away from him.

maybe it did bounce, and the break was just my imagination, who knows. but when i started playing about 9 or 10 years ago, if it was possible to shoot someone out with 1 or 2 paintballs, then thats what you did. it was just common courteousy (sp). its no fun getting lit up like i did, especially when its unneccesary.

unfortunately, thats not the only experience i had like that. there have been others, but that was the most recent one. and i've seen similar experiences like that happen to other players.

[AnthonyW]

I see the same things happening in the ARCHERY world (My Profession) products keep coming out and changing just for the sake of change. I think most of the products in the paintball market need alot of refining instead of something new, it seems everyone is so fixated on new, new, new. Most of the new markers dont do anything any better than the ones that are already out.

Anthony

[dahoeb]

I see the same things happening in the ARCHERY world...
Anthony

thats pretty interesting.
you got some good points too.

[Coralis]

Just the general lack of sportsmanship and knowledge of game. Case in point a couple of months back i was playing at the local field I had made my way all the way back to the opposite teams starting box and was coming back on the other team from behind I shoot one kid out with a shot to the hopper. I moved up some more and came up on one other player and walked right up behind him and told him to take the hit so he asks me if i have paint (fair question actually) i shake the gun and he puts the barrel plug in and walks off. I turn around looking for my next victim when all the sudden i get lit up with about 10 shots , the little son of a Jupitor based alien colony says "well i never took the hit", so I said and that gives you the right to light me up from 15 feet away and he just laughed and said suck it up straw boy. When I was his age I would of never spoken to adult that way.


Tell you what...you don't circumvent the cuss filters as you promised, and I won't ban you...Army

[Miscue]

I believe its the personality that the marker has given a voice to. Miscue said it best...

Ha... I must have been ornery that day.

When I started playing... paintballers were the Dungeons & Dragons kind of people... computer geeks... etc. They got out there playing something that was not popular. It was expensive... the people who got into it really wanted to do it... and invested in it anyway. They were really dedicated to it. We went to a shop to get a big CO2 cylinder filled... kept it in a garage... bought a scale and fill stations... and we'd fill up our multiple CO2 tanks off of it and have enough air for an entire weekend. Sometimes we'd spend time building fields. We teched our own guns... brought our own chronographs.

We were concerned with how effectively we could snapshoot, not so much how fast we could shoot... because it didn't help much... and nobody could shoot more than about 6 bps consistently. Do the kids even practice snapshooting anymore... do they even know what it is? Or do they instead spend that time tinkering with their board settings?

They sure know all about laning though. Takes all of two seconds for a noob to figure out the concept. Sportsmanship? Eh... who cares, my gun of the week is cooler than yours!

Cheating was taboo. Friends didn't cheat each other... and if we caught an outsider doing it... even if he was a walk-on on our team... we'd all get pissed off about it and try to get him kicked off the field... rather than shrugging it off. I remember games where... we just stood up and walked off the field during the game when we caught one person cheating... and refused to play. Now... what, you get a couple points deducted? Maybe a one-for-one? There's photographic evidence of Joe Schmoe paintball celebrity cheating... and people laugh it up... keep the posters on the wall... and talk about how cool he/she is? Look how clever he/she was grinding that hit out!

Now... players don't leave until the ref pulls them. Sometimes they don't even bother to wipe anymore... and play right on while obviously gogged... until a ref gets to them. This is more controlled in a real tourny... but not completely... we've all seen it. But like many... I don't have the luxury of following the NPPL/PSP/etc. circuit around the country... and my regular play is limited to local stuff mostly... and a couple outside events a year maybe.

Mommies weren't buying little Johnny a $2500 setup that he'd use for 3 months yet... because Johnny didn't even know what paintball was. The "cool kids" didn't know what it was. Just some of the geeks. Paintball became popular... the MTV crowd took over. Not that I care... if they didn't bring their attitudes... and pollute a game to where the new goal is to see how far you can bend and break the rules without getting caught... while being as big of a dick as you can... with minimal penalty even if you do. It's entirely political why cheating does not have harsher penalties.

It used to be... paintball... paintball... paintball. Not politics... politics... politics...

I don't have a problem with the electronic marker. But like was mentioned... I have a problem with it allowing idiots to be even bigger idiots... and the large influx of idiots as paintball has been popularized. Before... you could spot those punks and kick the snot out of them every game anyway... because you and your buddies were just much better players.

But now this same idiot has a machine gun.

[dahoeb]

very well said. that sums up what most of us see happening i think.

[Miscue]

unfortunately, thats not the only experience i had like that. there have been others, but that was the most recent one. and i've seen similar experiences like that happen to other players.

One of my earliest experiences with an electronic marker was... I was playing a woods game... the game was over. I was crawling out of my hole. Kid from 20 ft away dumps his hopper on me with his Angel... He lights up my chest, I take cover... he lights up my back, and hits me in the head a dozen times... my hair is drenched in paint... I'm in a fetal position waving my arms, yelling, and covering myself with my gun. I don't think he stopped until he ran out of paint. What kept me from throwing a punch at him was... I could not see. I was completely gogged. At some point while getting lit up... I took my barrel off and tried to tomahawk it at him... I probably missed.

I bought a stainless steel Lapco barrel afterwards... kind of as a joke.

Although this was an extreme case... it characterizes what paintball became after that in my perspective.

[SCpoloRicker]

I have seen less than 10 parents out watching their kid or playing with their kid in 2 years. I only know of 2 dads that regularly play with their kid and actually teach them morals while playing. Most of the idiots everyone speaks of are 14-16 year olds that just do not have a clue.

That, my fellow AOer, is where we step in. Noone is changing the world... but the reason I play and hang out with this group is the shared camraderie (sic) amongst really different kinds of people and the fair, have-fun attitude we take on the field.

/tear
//PORCH!1

[buzzboy]

Only thing I don't like are those certain people who act like Aholes. The one person who every game overshoots/won't get out when the ref(me) calls him out/plays on/uses other's stuff without permission and brags about their paintball greatness. I have one of these at my field who will never be showing up again. They are the people who ruin it for everybody.

[benzy2]

yeah I remember the first cheater I came across. We were playing in the woods and it was one of the dad's friends. He cheated the entire time. You could watch him get gogged, wipe it, and flip you off for the hit to continue shooting. He also would shoot you after the game ended which really pissed you off. That was the last time we ever played with him and for a good year after that we only played with people we knew didnt cheat. Today you really cant play a game without it. Yeah I know there is an arguement that the cheating is done by everyone competative so it doesnt take away from the game, only changes the game. Well it does take away from the game I like to play. Also I remember the first few times I ever played paintball was with my dad and every time after that there was at least one or two dads with us that would keep us all in line. We didnt have the chance to be the dicks some of the youth are today. If you were cheating everyone hated you and wouldnt play. If you mouthed off and over shot the parents would tear you a new butthole. Im lucky that I still have most of those friends to play with making the game still fun to play.

[wispaintstyle]

I agree whole-heartedly with all of the above posts. At the birth of the sport the creators wanted to see if survival strategies for real life, both that of a stock broker and hunter, would carry over to paintball. Well now the problems of the real world have let themselves in. The first thing that we can all do is start with ourselves. Play with honor and integrity and then carry that on into your life outside of paintball (if you have one). The world must be changed one person at a time.

To quote a crappy ad for a crappy marker (IMHO): Evolve or Die.

[SpitFire1299]

I dont have a problem with cheaters. When they cheat, they simply get bonus balled.

The thing that keeps my down is the hype. Everyone talks about how fast there gun is, but no one talks about how good their team just did the last game. I like my team, but its just listening to other teams makes me sad. :( People want to look good instead of actually being good, and play like they look good too. Just play the game how you want, thats what i think. Get comfortable with your own team thing.

OMG.. also, just because pro's do it, doesnt mean its the coolest and the best.

Another thing i hate is ramping. I have been "ramped" before(shot like 10 times by a ramping gun). It just pisses me off.

Money isnt a problem though. :ninja:

(I like the word i have created....... ramped, hehe.)

[BeaverEater]

i stopped playing tourny ball because of the people really. Most of the people around here are really cocky, and will cheat to win. It just gets old after a while. I figured i'd just take a break and go back to playing pump.

[LudavicoSoldier]

The only things I hate are bad attitudes and poor sportsmanship. Self explanatory.

[onedude36]

I think the whole thing about kids <16 is that a) their parents pay for it, this makes MOST(ie not all) kids spoiled a bit. Specially when it comes to new dm6 and a boat load of gear. These are usually the poor sports in my opinion. the other option is b) they have a job. These are more money concious and sportsman like in my opinion. but, how many kids that are 15 or younger have jobs? not very many. If they have a job, its like parents buy gun, and paint, kid is entry from mowing a single lawn(his parents') that week. I fall into the category with a job(just turned 16 :D ) and i dont like allot of the players my age. My team is me, some other kids who pay their own way, brandon(coaches son, always takes crap for that :D ) and this 30 sumthin y/o corry. I think corry is my fav player on the team. He plays fair, is intelligent and thinks before he speaks, and can actually aim. I think the guys on my team are some of the better(people/moraly, not skill)ones in my area. Now im rambling. kthxby.

[KJHawley]

Almost everyone I know has quit playing paintball because of the obnoxious behavior of children at the local fields. My favorite story is my wife's. We were playing an indoor 10 on 10 or so. She's out, so she puts the barrel plug in, raises BOTH hands in the air, and starts walking back towards our flag station. A ten year old kid, about 10 feet away, looks straight at her, and shoots her. And he's on OUR TEAM. I watched the whole thing from the bunker behind her. He wasn't shooting at anyone else, or confused- he was just a 10 year old kid who wanted to shoot someone.
Or the last time I played at some of our local fields. A bunch of guys and I were walking down a path, and two guys in some bushes starts shooting at us. We dive off the path, exchange some gunfire. Some of our guys get shot, but we get the other two guys- they both raise their guns in the air, and extricate themselves from the brushes. As they start to walk off, one of the kids totally lights me up. He says that although he called himself out, he never actually got shot, so he was still in.
Or the time a guy crawled under the tape at the edge of the field, parked himself in the neutral zone by our base. Lights us up. We yell for the ref. The ref hollers "There better not be someone in my neutral zone!" Does he stand up and apologize for being in the neutral zone? Does he apologize to us? No, he got up and ran away. He RAN AWAY, like a guy caught robbing a Seven Eleven!!
There are so many people who don't pay attention to the rules, don't care about the rules, and are there just to shoot people. It makes the game less fun for everyone.

[M98Punk]

Yeah this stuff wont go away untill a large number of people are injured/killed from paintball related injuries in a short period of time or if a famous pro dies (if it's bossible for them to get hurt seeings how most of them are padded like the staypuffed marshmellow man)...then fields and players will be forced to reform. Kinda like what happend to nascar. Either thar or we all move into a planned community and play at the same field :bounce:

[phantomhitman]

I still think a big part of the problem is kids. Mostly unsupervised, the refs are either too busy or lazy to babysit them (most of the time the refs are younger as well), and teh kids just act stupid without mommy and daddy watching them. Too late to do anything about it now.

[M98Punk]

The funny thing about kids is that once they find out something can actually happen to them, that they can't whine there way out of they reform pretty quick... And if that doesn't work it's alot easier to put the bag over their head so that they can't identify who beat them up and threw them in a dumpster then a full grown guy acting the same way:argh:

[duby]

Its definately the people who are ruining the sport, whether it is the cheater at the local field, or the store/company trying to make money. there is no mutual respect anymore. 8-9 years ago when i started playing the sport was so small that it was rare to run across another paintballer in my area outside of the 8 or so people we played with back in the woods every other weekend. even when you went to the field, there was an automatic respect cause you had a common intrest no matter what your skill level. you all liked paintball. no one cheated cause you were all firends, even if you had just met that afternoon. the local shop would cut you deals just to get more people into paintball, work on markers for free even if you didnt buy it there bebcause they love everything about paintball. now, the store that just opened up by me charges 20 bucks minimun for work even if you bought the marker and parts there. the local field is crammed with people that cheat, overshoot, ramp in rec games even when there is a birthday party of 10 year olds...its sad really. maybe if we stop calling it a "sport" people wont be so compelled to do anything to win...

[Army]

I believe it's the lack of Dr Pepper at all the better fields.

[FSU_Paintball]

There's a lot of differences.

Well, some similarities... the prices for paint didn't go down too much... meaning playing now is just about as expensive as playing 8 years ago.

The guns got faster... now you gotta be a track star and/or make short runs. It changes the game, and not always for the better.

The attitudes just got progressively worse.

It's not a backwoods industry any more... creativity can get stifled by lawsuits

More than they used to, people play to win rather than to have fun

Paintball in my area really died out. Now you have a few killer D1/D2 players and some miscellaneous speedball regulars... and the very occasional group of woodsballers that will play now and again... it's not like it used to be in my area.

[camilion705]

So I ask;
What do you NOT like about the sport now and why?



1. Bad Sportsmanship
2. Bad facilities with equally bad employees
3. Gameplay is more about bps than it is skill, which leads to the next point:
4. I can't afford to play all day as that would require at least two cases.
Mind you, I play airball/hyperball and just a bit of everything else.

The players these days are rediculous. Bad mouthing other players and beating up on those who are just begining to play. They are overly obsessive about the hardware they have brought to the field and look down on those who don't bring top of the line gear.

I watch Smoked (the dvd) from time to time and am reminded of a better time for paintball. Yes the technology is so much better today, but hasn't that taken away from the game? I really believe that if there was a bps cap imposed of about 11bps, the quality of paintball games would be greatly improved. Less bps means the need for more skill, which I believe leads to more fun.

As for the quality of facilities and the employees... Paintball parks must become more professional in appearance and in service. The grounds must be clean at all times with playing fields and the surrounding staging areas free of any dangers. The bunkers and netting must be inspected regularly and damages repaired or replaced. Employees must be knowledgeable and courteous while performing their jobs. Safety is crucial in paintball and the fields I play at dont feel particularly safe. Would you say, race a car at a track where there is debris all over the tarmac? I know we all play at fields where there is crap all over the place! A lot of the time the fps of my marker is never checked by a referee and that is a huge liability. The places we all play at have to be safe and that means well kept facilities and employees that perform their jobs properly.

The paintball world is growing, but it is not progressing.

[Cow hunter]

i really think its all in the sportsmanship......... and the horrible field employees and the price gouging!!!!......oh well then theres this.....


I read all the topics like this and I can't understand half of what your guys see. The UK Woodsball and Scenario scene is a very close knitt and friendly enviroment and as far as I know the UK tournament scene is healthy and, although there is more of an emphasis on new flash gear, It doesn't seem to be anywhere near as bad as the scene in the US. I just hope the UK scene doesn't follow the same route the US ones appears to be following.
damn us americans ruining everything!!!! :clap:

[Recon by Fire]

Absolutely bad sportsmanship and attitude. I think the total focus on BPS doesn't help.