What are we doing?

[NewbieMagMan10988]

Start Rant….
First off, this is not another “I think paintball is going down the tubes post”, it is however MY view on how things are. It may be biased and limited, but hey, its still my view. I think that Professional paintball needs to go. I feel that it is doing more harm than good for the way I like to play. It seems that as a result of Pro paintball, new players are suppressed by DM whatever shooting self proclaimed “Agg” players. Thank god I didn’t just start playing! I would HATE paintball. Look at the pro scene. I cant hardly watch a tournament (pro or local) without seeing aggravated yelling, overshooting, or swearing.

I look at it like this, lets say there is a Mother Paintball, applying the same concept as Mother Nature. That Mother Paintball is the invisible “non-existent” force that determines the outcome of all things paintball. When the game first started everything was great, and mother paintball was happy. It was a few guys, a lot of land, a few pump guns, and a lot of fun. Now, it’s a few guys, a boxed in arena, a lot of paint spraying monstrosities, and people getting upset because they didn’t win. I don’t think Mother Paintball is quite so happy. Maybe I’m totally wrong here, but isn’t this about having fun? Sure you could say that losing is not fun, but if I went to an open play, and lost every game, but still played like I meant it, I would call that fun.

A few weeks ago, I was at an open play at a field I don’t normally go to. I was shooting my old school pump gun, and not doing to bad against the onslaught of ramping egos and intimidators. In one game, it comes down to a one on one with me and Mr. Ramping. Little did I know, he is in a bunker right in front of me. I make a move for the snake and Mr. Ramping shoots me NINE TIMES. Seven on various parts of my body, two on my gun. I get up from my slide and tell the guy in a calm voice, “Hey man, it only takes one.” He ignores me completely and walks off the field. Moral of the story? Overshooting is OK!

Tell me someone else has a serious problem with that!

Part of it comes down to the equipment. The guns now a days scare me. 20+ BPS? That just sounds like it hurts. And that if you need to shoot 20 times every second, you need to learn how to aim. Mr. Ramping uses 400+ balls a game. I use about 300 balls a DAY. Mr. Ramping shoots out an average of 3 people a game, I shoot an average of 2 people a game. Who is really doing “better”?

But Mother Paintball has embraced this new style of play, and has nursed it into all that is “Pro paintball”. Where do you look to see the newest gear? The Pros. Where are all the “best” players? In the Pros. Who get the sponsorships? The Pros. Who gets the most media attention? The Pros. Everyone talks about how paintball needs more positive media recognition. Well who has a better image? The swearing, overshooting “Agg” players, or the family birthday party playing and having a BLAST? Sure the don’t have great technique, but Joe Blow sitting on his couch doesn’t know that! He sees people having fun playing paintball. If Joe Blow watches a Pro game, he sees ramping, and overshooting, swearing, and cheating. Which sounds more fun to Joe Blow?

On the same hand, I understand that not all Pro players are evil. A large number of them are great guys and gals who follow the rules like they are supposed to. But it is the other significant percent that messes it up for the rest of us. Look at the Muslims. A few crazy extremists go and steal planes, and now the WHOLE religion is looked down upon. Is that really what you want for paintball?

Ok, drifting a little to far away from paintball….

What am I really trying to say? IDK. Do what you like doing I guess. That’s just what I think.

…End Rant

Mike

[ZEROte]

compare the sport of paintball to soccer. pro soccer players get very much upset especially outside of this country. look at the sport of basketball. they get very much upset. have you ever seen the footage of charles barkley knocking someone out on court? look at pro football. heck pro hockey they used to be allowed to fight. the cursing swearing foul play is there you just cant see it cause your so far away from the players. you blasted "pro" paintball without looking at it from the opposite angle. you werent overshot you actually walked into a stream. its doesnt matter how fast the person was shooting because i could be shooting 9 bps and if there are 9 balls in the air then you can walk into all 9 of those balls. and ive seen worse fights break out on recball fields. i once saw a guy go after a little kid who was at least 20 years younger than him who was ten. he was ten shooting a tippmann. so why dont you flip around the situation. drop the kind of cash on a tournament that these players pay and see if youll keep a cool head when people wipe when things go wrong etc etc etc.

[Cow hunter]

i find it hard too see the other side....... i totally agree with NewbieMagMan it is all focused on the pros, but whats really important is what YOU think.... sure people MIGHT see this and be discouraged but most players are recruited by other people or by hearing how fun it really is!.... the way i see it, when i go play i use 500 balls a day, lose some win some and i have a great time..... thats all thats important, oh and i bring a new person every time so there are always new people joining the sport

[NinjaoftheNight79]

You have a great point, but its not pro-ball that needs to go. Its either the mentality behind these people that do that, or those people themselves. These people get paid to win. I would get POed too if I lost. That means less money for me and my family. It works that way with every sport, whether its shown or not.

We just had a similar thing over at Spec Ops. People saying how their marker owns others. The Tippmann lovers and ION lovers are always going at it. Finally it has gotten to a point that an admin said we are all becoming idiots. I took the time to quote it and state just how true it is. All of these people bash others markers and styles of play instead of understanding the true meaning of paintball. Paintball is like christmas, it isn't supposed to be about recieving, its about much more. Paintball needs to stop the Santa scam. To me Santa is a scam and a half. Telling you kids about Santa and then they learn the truth. Santa is like "the best paintball gun". All these kids (maturity wise) believe in this quietest, most accurate, and fastest marker. Then they finally get told the truth and want to deny it until they get proof. Then when they finally snap into reality, they go on and become like me and many of other people. Christians and paintballers alike need to be more like the Jewish. Instead of inventing a fictional character, people/kids need to be taught the truth from the start. I mean come on, how many Jewish people do you see thinking about "Hanuka Harry"? They dont. They teach their young (as soon as they are old enough to understand whats going on) exactly what the holiday is about. Thats how paintball should be. Paintballers should be taught that it isn't about winning or losing, or what marker is the best, or who owns who. Its about friendship, rivalry, fun, recreation, skill, and just having a good 'ol time. Paintball is one of those things that you hold in your heart. Something that lets you forget everything else and come together. Though paintball has gained a lot of segregation, we should all respect eachother, learn from others, teach others who arent as skilled, make friends, make (healthy) rivals, and have a fun time. I am very tired of people acting like paintball is always a contest of who is best and whos marker owns. Its about the fun, adrenaline of the game, and the people. Its about the stories you gain, tell your friends the next day, and all of your non-paintballer friends think your obsessed. That is what paintball is about. We all need to learn that.

[NewbieMagMan10988]

... you blasted "pro" paintball without looking at it from the opposite angle…. you werent overshot you actually walked into a stream.... so why dont you flip around the situation…. drop the kind of cash on a tournament that these players pay and see if youll keep a cool head when people wipe when things go wrong etc etc etc.

"On the same hand, I understand that not all Pro players are evil. A large number of them are great guys and gals who follow the rules like they are supposed to. But it is the other significant percent that messes it up for the rest of us." There is your flipped around opposite angle.


"Little did I know, he is in a bunker right in front of me. I make a move for the snake and Mr. Ramping shoots me NINE TIMES." Where did I say lane? He was to close to me for it to be "walking into a stream". Last time I checked, you were not there, and I was. Stop inventing situations in an attempt to prove you points.

As for the last part. That is the point I am making. Did you really not get that? I don’t like that it has come to people getting angry because they have lost. Doesn’t matter if they lose games or money, IT SHOULD BE ABOUT HAVING A GOOD TIME! I will not play in a big tournament for that reason. I like having fun, not worrying about how much stuff I’m going to get. But that’s just me…

Mike

[NinjaoftheNight79]

"On the same hand, I understand that not all Pro players are evil. A large number of them are great guys and gals who follow the rules like they are supposed to. But it is the other significant percent that messes it up for the rest of us." There is your flipped around opposite angle.


"Little did I know, he is in a bunker right in front of me. I make a move for the snake and Mr. Ramping shoots me NINE TIMES." Where did I say lane? He was to close to me for it to be "walking into a stream". Last time I checked, you were not there, and I was. Stop inventing situations in an attempt to prove you points.

As for the last part. That is the point I am making. Did you really not get that? I don’t like that it has come to people getting angry because they have lost. Doesn’t matter if they lose games or money, IT SHOULD BE ABOUT HAVING A GOOD TIME! I will not play in a big tournament for that reason. I like having fun, not worrying about how much stuff I’m going to get. But that’s just me…

Mike

Hey man, your heart is in the right place, but its nothing to get mad over. Its all a good time :cheers:

[NewbieMagMan10988]

Thats how paintball should be. Paintballers should be taught that it isn't about winning or losing, or what marker is the best, or who owns who. Its about friendship, rivalry, fun, recreation, skill, and just having a good 'ol time. Paintball is one of those things that you hold in your heart. Something that lets you forget everything else and come together. Though paintball has gained a lot of segregation, we should all respect eachother, learn from others, teach others who arent as skilled, make friends, make (healthy) rivals, and have a fun time. I am very tired of people acting like paintball is always a contest of who is best and whos marker owns. Its about the fun, adrenaline of the game, and the people. Its about the stories you gain, tell your friends the next day, and all of your non-paintballer friends think your obsessed. That is what paintball is about. We all need to learn that.
Ninja, you rock my socks!
Thank you. :hail: :hail: :hail:

[pachytriton]

First off, this is not another “I think paintball is going down the tubes post”, it is however MY view on how things are. It may be biased and limited, but hey, its still my view. I think that Professional paintball needs to go. I feel that it is doing more harm than good for the way I like to play. It seems that as a result of Pro paintball, new players are suppressed by DM whatever shooting self proclaimed “Agg” players. Thank god I didn’t just start playing! I would HATE paintball. Look at the pro scene. I cant hardly watch a tournament (pro or local) without seeing aggravated yelling, overshooting, or swearing.

While I can completely understand where you're coming from, I have to disagree. I was just about to post something similar to what zerote said, good points there. Pro paintball also has to try to be widely watchable. Hopefully, tournies will be televised sometime soon. The whole point is to bring paintball up there with other pro sports. While pump play rocks wicked hard, people watching it who don't know much about paintball probably won't find it too interesting. Watching psp and nxl matches are fast paced, exciting, loud, and crazy. Watch other pro sports-do the players look like they're really enjoying themselves? Because pro paintball is very new, it strikes a lot closer to home than other pro sports. Legalised ramping in tournies makes the matches more fun to watch and makes cheating harder. I don't think ramping should be allowed at fields, that's too much.



I look at it like this, lets say there is a Mother Paintball, applying the same concept as Mother Nature. That Mother Paintball is the invisible “non-existent” force that determines the outcome of all things paintball. When the game first started everything was great, and mother paintball was happy. It was a few guys, a lot of land, a few pump guns, and a lot of fun. Now, it’s a few guys, a boxed in arena, a lot of paint spraying monstrosities, and people getting upset because they didn’t win. I don’t think Mother Paintball is quite so happy. Maybe I’m totally wrong here, but isn’t this about having fun? Sure you could say that losing is not fun, but if I went to an open play, and lost every game, but still played like I meant it, I would call that fun.

Basketball started out wiht no dribbling and baskets with no holes in the bottom. Instead of dribbling, players threw the ball up into the air and caught it. Paintball is a new, growing sport. It is evolving from what it used to be into its final form. It's not quite there, but it is getting closer. I think we'll see some major changes in rules in the next 5-10 years that will hopefully make cheating harder.


Where do you look to see the newest gear? The Pros. Where are all the “best” players? In the Pros. Who get the sponsorships? The Pros. Who gets the most media attention? The Pros. Everyone talks about how paintball needs more positive media recognition. Well who has a better image?

Again, where do you see media covarage for any other sport-little league baseball and street basketball? What else would you expect?

My problem with current pro paintball might be similar to yours-the distance from the average new player and the pro. Look at other sports - the equipment matters much much less. To an extent, your gun defines what kind of player you are, widening the gap between new and experienced players. The ion, which I dislike for a number of reasons, might be a step in bringing paintball to a more level playing field. It makes a gun comparable to the pro's available for a low price. While I dislike smart parts marketing and business policy, they are looking to the future of the sport. With pro paintball being more widely advertised, the need for a gun that will let newbs compete is there. The worst part if this evolution is when the old meets new-like your experience with "mr. ramping." I'm kinda leary about the next couple years of painball myself, hopefully fields will not start allowing ramping all the time. I'm truly sorry you feel this way, but paintball is such a strange, new sport that there are going to be some hiccups along the way.

[NinjaoftheNight79]

Ninja, you rock my socks!
Thank you. :hail: :hail: :hail:

Thank you. I try to be as helpful as possible. Its a lot easier to get something like this heard here than on Spec Ops. While the respected members all agree, it seems the people who the message was intended for never even wanted to reply...

[Recon by Fire]

It certainly appears to be going down the crapper, more and more. When I see the appearant majority of our players are teens/early 20's and display such low quality of sportsmanship or just general personality....it makes me just want to sell everything and not even be associated with it.

I try to keep in mind that I mostly play with closed groups so that this is not a problem. But it is a hard thing to ignore even when i'm not getting to play at all.


(Note: I know we have lots of good young layers out there who are a credit, but they are unfortunately not the ones who we see and hear).

[NewbieMagMan10988]

I don’t really think that the sports analogies really work. Since professional baseball, football, and basketball have had such a large time to grow and become accepted, its no big deal for a new player to start on of these games. Also, the equipment is a big factor. Look at basketball, a fair basketballer equipped with the same gear as *insert pro basketballer* will be really the same as he was before. Now take a fair paintballer and give him a full Dynasty set up, and he will be much more effective than the basketball player mentioned before.

Maybe? I know very little about any other sport, so I could be wrong, and I am TIRED.

I’m glad to see that a somewhat civil discussion can still go on at AO, but the bed is calling, big day tomorrow, wont be able to post as much as I would like to for the next few days.

[magman007]

paintball isnt going in the tubes, you all need to get over this stuff, it is still growing leaps and bounds, this year is just seeing a small slump in profits, because the market is flooded, and we need to wait for it to catch up a bit.

Also, too bad you got shot 9 times, it happens, and get over it. it doesnt hurt that much anyways.

Equipment not making a difference? is that so? how come pro hockeyplayers dont use rentals? or pro baseball players dont use crappy cheep gloves and bats? exactly. equipment does matter, can a pro play ok with a spyder? yea, can they play better with a gun of higher callibur? ofcourse!

at the moment the sport is at, pro paintball is necessesary for survival. Without it, the market has even less of a chance of growing, and we will see alot of companies die off, more so than the ones already dying.


Dont play on a competitive field, if you dont want the competitive attitude, or play with the noobies if thats what you want.

[pachytriton]

I don’t really think that the sports analogies really work. Since professional baseball, football, and basketball have had such a large time to grow and become accepted, its no big deal for a new player to start on of these games. Also, the equipment is a big factor. Look at basketball, a fair basketballer equipped with the same gear as *insert pro basketballer* will be really the same as he was before. Now take a fair paintballer and give him a full Dynasty set up, and he will be much more effective than the basketball player mentioned before.

Maybe? I know very little about any other sport, so I could be wrong, and I am TIRED.

I’m glad to see that a somewhat civil discussion can still go on at AO, but the bed is calling, big day tomorrow, wont be able to post as much as I would like to for the next few days.

That's kinda what I was getting at towards the end. I am guessing that markers like the ion are going to be the tippmanns of tomarrow, but the pro guns won't be too much better than they are now. An ion with an aftermarket trigger plus a nice tank and hopper can certainly hold its own on the field compared to the pro guns, even if the quality sucks. Yes the ion has pissed a lot of people off, including me, but now I really think that smart parts is considering their investment in the future of the sport. I might be wrong, we could have some innovation that will change everything.

'night

[RusskiX]

The biggest issue with the "professional" mentality that has come to pervade the rec scene is that it is not appropriate at an open day at a recreational field. If the pro wannabes want the aggressive play during tournaments thats fine. I can understand the competitve nature if money/prizes are on the line. But NewbieMag stated it was just an open day, which usually entails a mix of player levels by definition. I don't want the hard fouls if I'm playing pickup basketball; I don't need to get lit up if I'm playing on any give Sunday. I don't have a problem with professional paintball getting more television/national coverage and acceptance, just like other professional sports. But by the same token, I'm not playing in the NFL when my buddies get out the nerf and we start a game of flag football. Everybody knows that one guy who takes it a little too seriously.

I think the other sore point is the decline in numbers of fields that cater to the entry level player. I would normally suggest that NewbieMag stick to well known fields that have a more laid back crowd, except those are getting harder to find.

[SpitFire1299]

The biggest issue with the "professional" mentality that has come to pervade the rec scene is that it is not appropriate at an open day at a recreational field. If the pro wannabes want the aggressive play during tournaments thats fine. I can understand the competitve nature if money/prizes are on the line. But NewbieMag stated it was just an open day, which usually entails a mix of player levels by definition. I don't want the hard fouls if I'm playing pickup basketball; I don't need to get lit up if I'm playing on any give Sunday.
I can agree and disagree with that statement. I can disagree because of this quote- "Play your best or dont play at all." But, on the otherhand.. im also sick of watching some open play games after tournaments were people are like.. "Lets go bonus ball all the noobs in open play!!" What a terrible motive.

Ok.. now the main idea. I think paintball is not going bad, but it just simply isnt always "good." Its rather un-supervised for kids; "Where are the parents to yell at that kid!??" Someone here will get what im talking about. There are just those people that are ruining it for the rest of us.. but whocares, what am I going to change by posting my rant in a thread? :tard:

[etjoyride]

You have a great point, but its not pro-ball that needs to go. Its either the mentality behind these people that do that, or those people themselves. These people get paid to win. I would get POed too if I lost. That means less money for me and my family. It works that way with every sport, whether its shown or not.

We just had a similar thing over at Spec Ops. People saying how their marker owns others. The Tippmann lovers and ION lovers are always going at it. Finally it has gotten to a point that an admin said we are all becoming idiots. I took the time to quote it and state just how true it is. All of these people bash others markers and styles of play instead of understanding the true meaning of paintball. Paintball is like christmas, it isn't supposed to be about recieving, its about much more. Paintball needs to stop the Santa scam. To me Santa is a scam and a half. Telling you kids about Santa and then they learn the truth. Santa is like "the best paintball gun". All these kids (maturity wise) believe in this quietest, most accurate, and fastest marker. Then they finally get told the truth and want to deny it until they get proof. Then when they finally snap into reality, they go on and become like me and many of other people. Christians and paintballers alike need to be more like the Jewish. Instead of inventing a fictional character, people/kids need to be taught the truth from the start. I mean come on, how many Jewish people do you see thinking about "Hanuka Harry"? They dont. They teach their young (as soon as they are old enough to understand whats going on) exactly what the holiday is about. Thats how paintball should be. Paintballers should be taught that it isn't about winning or losing, or what marker is the best, or who owns who. Its about friendship, rivalry, fun, recreation, skill, and just having a good 'ol time. Paintball is one of those things that you hold in your heart. Something that lets you forget everything else and come together. Though paintball has gained a lot of segregation, we should all respect eachother, learn from others, teach others who arent as skilled, make friends, make (healthy) rivals, and have a fun time. I am very tired of people acting like paintball is always a contest of who is best and whos marker owns. Its about the fun, adrenaline of the game, and the people. Its about the stories you gain, tell your friends the next day, and all of your non-paintballer friends think your obsessed. That is what paintball is about. We all need to learn that.


I agree....although i am biased http://www.biologydaily.com/biology/upload/thumb/7/78/200px-Wikipedia_blue_star_of_david.png

[Recon by Fire]

Well it just seems that sportsmanship is stressed in all sports to some degree, except for paintball. I think it does matter and should be enforced in tournaments. And yes, I would gladly pull every players armband on an entire team with the displays that some put on. It si bad enough terrible behavior is accepted in tournament play, it is even worse that it carries over into rec play. It will hurt us all in the end.

[lather]

I used to think "pro" paintball was a detriment to paintball as a whole--but once I realized most events are just intricate commercials and clever marketing, I realized its best not taken too seriously.

There is no such thing as pro paintball. It is primarily a sucessful means of marketing and advertisement used to sell markers and gear--providing fair, clean entertainment for fans comes in at a distant second.

The "pro" leagues and the industry are not interested in providing entertainment for us paintballers, they are interested in selling markers. How many fans show up to root for their favorite team is secondary to how many are visiting the vendor booths.

Poor behavior is not discouraged because there is no respect for the fans. The only thing that the industry respects is how many more shockers will be sold the month after a Dynasty win.

[NewbieMagMan10988]

Also, too bad you got shot 9 times, it happens, and get over it. it doesnt hurt that much anyways.

Equipment not making a difference? is that so? how come pro hockeyplayers dont use rentals? or pro baseball players dont use crappy cheep gloves and bats? exactly. equipment does matter, can a pro play ok with a spyder? yea, can they play better with a gun of higher callibur? ofcourse!

at the moment the sport is at, pro paintball is necessesary for survival. Without it, the market has even less of a chance of growing, and we will see alot of companies die off, more so than the ones already dying.


Dont play on a competitive field, if you dont want the competitive attitude, or play with the noobies if thats what you want.

Its not so much that it hurt physically, as much as it hurt mentally to know this guy could not care less he just lit me nine times at an open play.


That thing about the equipment, I figured I was wrong, I was tired and didn’t really know what I was trying to say. You (and everyone else) are right in that part.

So what if the companies die? How does that stop me, who already owns everything I need to play, from going to play? You make it seem like if Smart Parts were to go bankrupt, every SP gun would disappear. Even if EVERY gun maker were to drop out, so many people already have guns, with lots of people have 3 or more. What does that mean? People would still play! Paint manufactures still have a customer base, so they keep rolling out the cases.

I don’t play on competitive fields, I do have a competitive attitude, but I wont let myself behave like a typical PBN’er and get all pissed because I lost a game, or got shot out. I just think that paintball has become the opposite of what made me want to play it. As a little kid I was on a soccer team. Every practice it was about “this is what we have to do to WIN! WIN WIN WIN!” I hated it. It took all the fun out of it. When I went to play paintball the first time, I saw a guy in a one on one get bunkered. The guy then walked up to the other guy who shot him, laughed and said something like, “Damn you can run fast!” It as great, losing did not matter, having fun was MORE important than winning.

So yes, I will go play with the “noobies” because at least they have a decent attitude and I can teach them what the game should really be about.

Mike

[NewbieMagMan10988]

I used to think "pro" paintball was a detriment to paintball as a whole--but once I realized most events are just intricate commercials and clever marketing, I realized its best not taken too seriously.

There is no such thing as pro paintball. It is primarily a sucessful means of marketing and advertisement used to sell markers and gear--providing fair, clean entertainment for fans comes in at a distant second.

The "pro" leagues and the industry are not interested in providing entertainment for us paintballers, they are interested in selling markers. How many fans show up to root for their favorite team is secondary to how many are visiting the vendor booths.

Poor behavior is not discouraged because there is no respect for the fans. The only thing that the industry respects is how many more shockers will be sold the month after a Dynasty win.

Too true. :(

[punkncat]

. i once saw a guy go after a little kid who was at least 20 years younger than him who was ten.

I didn't know you had seen me do that..... :argh:

[ZapTheMad]

ADDING SOME RANT:

I feel your pain. I ran into one of those smacktards a while back. I came around a corner and his back was to me with no clue. I'm a nice guy so I put 2 in the bunker right next to him and let him know I was there. Then put 2 in his pods and yelled "You're out player!". I'm not out to kill people so no need to go full auto on the back of your head right? I start moving up to take over his bunker and next thing I know he turns around and and wails on me! He shot me 10 times with 4 balls into my bare knuckles less than 10 feet away. I wanted to beat him down with my gun since my fist already felt like I knocked 5 mouths worth of teeth out. All I could do is offer a few words off the field he won't soon forget. My hand was wasted and I had to sit out for the remainder of the day while my kid played. That's the worst part, my kid was there and had to witness that BS.

The other thing that peeves me are the wipers. "I'll just wipe and keep playing because I'm not out unless the ref calls me out". So you're forced to bonus because sportsmanship means squat. It's all about being competitive and getting the bling...

END RANT:

People become whatever it is on the field they play on and all we can do is try to set a better example for our youth to follow. Video footage of smacktards standing around having full hoppers shot at them isn't helping at all. Things will get worse then someone big like the ATF will step in and make changes. Will the game get better when you need a permit to play? I'm just happy there is such a thing as scenario and outlaw!


Merry X-mas!!!

[NinjaoftheNight79]

I am tired of these darn cheaters. I have only cheated once, and the circumstances were of a certain occasion. I was playing with and against all friends, last game of the night, no refs even bothered to watch us so we kinda free for alled it, I had a ton of paint, and we were just typically messing around anyway. I played on, and I will admit to doing it that one time, but I have never cheated in a game that was meant to be a game, or played with people who care at the time. I think we all played on that game, it was just fun and none of us had use for any of the paint we had left.

[Timmee]

So what if the companies die? How does that stop me, who already owns everything I need to play, from going to play? You make it seem like if Smart Parts were to go bankrupt, every SP gun would disappear. Even if EVERY gun maker were to drop out, so many people already have guns, with lots of people have 3 or more. What does that mean? People would still play! Paint manufactures still have a customer base, so they keep rolling out the cases.



Mike


I want to respond to this part of your post. Paintball needs for the marker companies to stay in business, in order to survive. You may have all the stuff you need, but what happens when the new players, that have no equipment, want to start? Without new players, natural attrition will diminish the amount of players, which will drive up the cost of paint, and evenutally nobody will be able to play. Fields will close down, paintball stores will go out of business, and you'll be stuck with paintball gear you can't get parts for.

[siloseven]

Merry Christmas and happy Holidays every body! and soon a New Year! :dance: :cheers:

reading all of this I agree with most every one. but my stand point is that the fields and field owners ect. need to start stepping up to the plate and take responcipility for what happens on their field. I can recall very vivedly recall the amount of times someone NEEDED to be banned from a field, and sadly it cannot be counted on one hand and even two for that matter and that is just this year alone.

I have played for about 8 years now, and I play very hard. I have, in all my years of getting scrapes, bruses and even gashes have to have EMS called because someone tore my skin so deep from shooting me with a ramping bps and DWELL. I now have my very first scar, and a big one at that, that is a constant reminder of this. what happened to the guy? he sat out for 3 games and was back on the field.

in the case of the guy lighting you 9 times on that move, it should have been the ref's and field operators responcibility to yank him. and the one with the getting the guy and then him turning around and wailing on you, Ban him! the field should have stepped up and Banned him. with out recorse from a penilty there is no correction and it keeps happening.

another sport annalogy: remember the NBA and aduince fight where the guy from the Pacers (i think) started fighting the fan. take about that situaton, and add no reprocutions for the player. that is a subliminal message that it is OK to Fight whom ever and it happens again and/or more offen untill somehting is done.

IMO, if I was a field owner, i don't care if you are the Presodent of the United States, I will yank and bann you from the field if you violate the rules and related things. getting hit and then turning agound and shooting the guy who was curdious enough to save you some pain, 10 times, you are getting yanked. and the "pro" level needs to do the same! it sends a message and will help the sport grow faster.

when fields step-up, so dose the sports future.

[BigEvil]

A ref should have pulled the other guy for overshooting. Most fields will discourage lighting players up by eliminating someone who tags an opponent more than 3 times.

[tyrion2323]

I feel that it is doing more harm than good for the way I like to play

Ahhh...there it is. It's harming the way you want to play.

Okay, I understand your post. There have been many, many like it before, all saying the same thing: "pro paintball is ruining the sport" or "Speedball doesn't take skill" or something like that. I'm going to put down my foot and call it all rubbish. Why? Here's why:

1. Your entire post is completely subjective. It's all about what you want, and why you don't enjoy it. It does stink that you were shot 9 times, but you immediately assume that the guy is ramping. What proof do you have of ramping? Most decent players can easily pop off 9 shots in a second, much less an entire run to the snake. Considering the close-range, you could have been hit more. There has to be a realization that as you play airball and speedball, you will be playing with airball players - not woods and rec players. Many times shots don't break, so it can be necessary to shoot more than once or thrice. What you experience is: "Okay, I just tried to run to the snake and got lit up, yowch!" and what he probably experienced was: "Man, I got that guy trying to run to the snake!". I highly doubt that there was ill-will involved, as there usually isn't.

2a. You're taking extreme examples from each side of the sport. Honestly - how many tournaments do you attend? How many tournaments have you played in? Unless you have statistics and evidence to back up your statements, they become void. It's certainly true that tournament players cheat - that's for certain. It's not a great thing that Oliver Lang is the most blatant of them all; however, just because there are highly hyped cases of cheating doesn't mean that tournament paintball is suddenly a bad influence, nor does it mean that cheating and vulgarities are limited to tournament paintball.

2b. You give two very extreme examples about "image". You cite swearing, cheating tournament players vs. a happy-go-lucky, innocent paintball birthday party. While you're at it, you should re-look at your analogy towards Muslims, which was fairly special in its own right, though we shouldn't get into that. You also have to define what "positive image" means, because it obviously doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. Here's the deal: I live in Vermont, which is a relatively non-paintbally area. We mainly have outdoors woodsball areas - the same types of places that your idyllic birthday parties would take place. Yet I have seen cheating, swearing and all sorts of ugly behavior amongst the newbies and younger players that you portray as wonderful and friendly. It simply isn't as simple as you're trying to make it. People are people. It's not like you start off with a bunch of great, wonderful kids who then experience tournament play and become nasty, overshooting jerkoffs. Some pros - many, in my experience - are totally awesome guys. I have played with several EuroPro teams, and I can tell you that pro players are just humans. Some are awesome, and some just plain stink.

3. Newer equipment and play styles are advancing the sport, not ruining it. Woodsball is still there. It will always be there. Same with speedball, etc. What you pine for has nothing to do with pro and tournament paintball. It has to do with interpersonal connections and attitudes. Some people will always be jerks. Man - it's friggin tough, and it stinks. I play against some jerks as well; however, instead of immediately blaming pro-paintball (I'm going to label this the Broflovsky effect, for those who enjoy South Park) , you should judge things on a personal, individual basis. In a recent tournament this past semester, I shot an opposing player a few times more than I should have. It was a mistake, based on an LPR issue I was having. Well, he probably thought I was a big dick - so after the game, I went up to him, apologized, and we shook hands and things were okay. Some kids might be intimidated of you, and you might find it easier to reach out and be nice to them.

Believe it or not, I'm on your side - I just think that you're completely wrong about the source of the problem. It's true - we need to give guidance and show support for younger players. We need to teach them what's right and what's wrong. But blaming tournament paintball isn't giong to help. If you really want things to change, you've got to take action and do it yourself. Help improve paintball by leading as a good example. It works - believe me. My team does it, and we have gone from disliking the people we scrimmaged against to really liking them - I attribute it to our friendliness and willingness to set a good example.

[Coralis]

Personally I think the sport would be better off good sportsmanship was stressed much more at the Rec ball level and especially at the Pro level, like it or not the pro level is the face of paintball that people see on TV so that makes them the ambasadors of our sport. One thing this has done has changed the perception of the game some from neo nazis practicing to take over the world to a what it is today.

[ZEROte]

ADDING SOME RANT:

I feel your pain. I ran into one of those smacktards a while back. I came around a corner and his back was to me with no clue. I'm a nice guy so I put 2 in the bunker right next to him and let him know I was there. Then put 2 in his pods and yelled "You're out player!". I'm not out to kill people so no need to go full auto on the back of your head right? I start moving up to take over his bunker and next thing I know he turns around and and wails on me! He shot me 10 times with 4 balls into my bare knuckles less than 10 feet away. I wanted to beat him down with my gun since my fist already felt like I knocked 5 mouths worth of teeth out. All I could do is offer a few words off the field he won't soon forget. My hand was wasted and I had to sit out for the remainder of the day while my kid played. That's the worst part, my kid was there and had to witness that BS.




Merry X-mas!!!

well the problem with this is that you hit him in an area where he could not feel it. you shot the bunker, he thinks you missed and with all that goes on in a game do you think that it is very easy to hear anyone say your out? next time dont worry about being mr nice guy put two into his back and continue playing. this could have all been prevented if you acted like a "jerk" paintball player and just shot him in the back.

[tyrion2323]

I feel your pain. I ran into one of those smacktards a while back. I came around a corner and his back was to me with no clue. I'm a nice guy so I put 2 in the bunker right next to him and let him know I was there. Then put 2 in his pods and yelled "You're out player!". I'm not out to kill people so no need to go full auto on the back of your head right? I start moving up to take over his bunker and next thing I know he turns around and and wails on me! He shot me 10 times with 4 balls into my bare knuckles less than 10 feet away. I wanted to beat him down with my gun since my fist already felt like I knocked 5 mouths worth of teeth out. All I could do is offer a few words off the field he won't soon forget. My hand was wasted and I had to sit out for the remainder of the day while my kid played. That's the worst part, my kid was there and had to witness that BS.


:confused: :confused: :confused:

Next time, shoot him once in the head or back. Shooting someone in the pods where they can't feel it is not a particularly intelligent move, especially if you then turn around and curse him out in front of people. What kind of example are you trying to set?

[RazorMonkey]

I disagree with everything said... I play tourny ball because it's fun... I play it because it's a blast... And when I drop $500 on a tournament, you better expect that I'm going to play to win. You're talking about how terrible "pro" players are, and that the amount of conflict on the fields was just too much for you... How many tourny players do you hear complaining about that? NONE. Saying that paintball is "going down the crapper" is, for lack of a better word, bull crap. The sport is growing at a faster pace than any other sport! What is drawing people to the sport? What gets publicity? Pro paintball draws in the crowds... Christmas events bring a close to my rant, but I'll return to open your mind more later :rofl: