What is the biggest "gimmick" in paintball?

[Carbon]

Besides the classic and obvious, barrels.
try to extend this though beyond consumer product if you may.

[Speedballer666]

Paintball specific shoes.

[lather]

LPR's for shockers, Delrin triggers,self cleaning eyes, some stuff SpecOps sells, the longbow etc. RPS Flash paintballs--(has a metallic shell they claim feeds faster than regular paintballs :rolleyes: )

[Vex]

PBN and the attitude that floats around it. Why is it that in paintball, people have to refer to things in such a lame manner? Why does a paintball gun have to be a "gat"? Why do people have to "Kill Suckers", be "Serial Killers" or "Contract Killers"; and how exactly are those things paintball related (other than being crappy names for products)?

This is something that really annoys the hell out of me.

[shartley]

I think marker speed has become the new gimmick.

[siloseven]

i don't think barrels are a big gimmick, but quite a few brands are complite trash and others are really good. and I agree that the bps claims are way out there, comanys and players alike. loaders are getting way up there with their claims on feed rate, in accuality not many get above 15 bps feed rate! other then that I havn't really seen much, but then again i don't look.

[buzzboy]

People who believe that its the gun not the player. Saddly where I live if you have a tippmann you are good and if not you suck. Then I was told my gun sucked because I was low on air and the balls were just dropping out the barrel.

[FreakBaller12]

paintball socks made by Dye :rolleyes:

[BuyMyMag]

The biggest gimmick in paintball today is the whole mindset of being 'agg'. New players see these guys with $2000 markers, and HK Support painted all over their equipment, then go out there and get bonus balled, and dont wanna play anymore.

[rkjunior303]

"Level 10 doesn't chop" ;)

[AutomagRT1483]

Biggest gimick I have ever seen.


Team specific guns.

[JeepinCalifornia]

Gimmick: The implication that Higher BPS = skill. This is, of course, coming from a Phantom Stock Class player...but then again, I'm lurking here on AO to educate myself on the Mags; I want one of those, too! :D

[ramennoodles]

Chris Lasoya's pony tail....

[master_alexander]

Chris Lasoya's pony tail....


yea... because you know whats behind a pony's tail? :rolleyes:

but seriously thinking the biggest gimmick is how good some guns are. any gun can be good if you take care of it, and fast if you have the right software/board in it.

[WingMan13]

Smart Parts "SFT innovation" :rofl:

[Skoad]

Bps

[Pntball1866]

Selling guns tha can shoot 20+ and 30+ BPS, when most tournys cap it at 15

[phantomhitman]

people that claim the end is nigh

[whistl3r]

"Level 10 doesn't chop" ;)

:confused: are you joking? i CANT chop a ball with my lvl10.. ive done all the tests on the lvl10 cd (except put my tongue in the breach.. im a wuss"

well.. so far ive put 1.5 cases through my mag with 0 chops.. and i dont have a fast hopper. i love it when i hear it go tsss and not chop my paint.. im like hells yeah

so anyways.. biggest gimmick? bps definitely.. and "having a drop foreward is stupid.." whats up with that?

[Chris_automag_07]

20 bps spyder, outrageous price of gear/guns, ......scented fill(i don't care if it is a gimmick...i love it....nothing better than someone being able to smell who shot them)

[ramennoodles]

Damn, that's a good one. I didn't think about scented fill.

[NinjaoftheNight79]

some stuff SpecOps sells, the longbow etc.

As I do respect your opinion, I cannot quite say its a gimmick. A gimmick would be pure BS. Spec Ops products aren't BS. They are just another line of scenario gear that have a bit better function that others. They make air-through stocks (as opposed to people making them, for some people wouldn't even know where to start). I have an A-5 with some Spec Ops stuff for it, and their products are really pretty good. As far as the Longbow, I cannot say it improves the Tac-One, but I can say if thats what one wanted for their style of play, than its a good product. A lot of people enjoy the longbow. Its all about what one wants for their style of play.

[WARPED1]

PBN and the attitude that floats around it. Why is it that in paintball, people have to refer to things in such a lame manner? Why does a paintball gun have to be a "gat"? Why do people have to "Kill Suckers", be "Serial Killers" or "Contract Killers"; and how exactly are those things paintball related (other than being crappy names for products)?

This is something that really annoys the hell out of me.
I must concur whole heartedly! :dance: :clap:

Chris Lasoya's pony tail....
Funniest reply ever! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :dance: :dance:

[magman007]

Smart Parts "SFT innovation" :rofl:


id agree with this one, because a ton of shockerowners think its something specific to their marker, not realizing every marker made does the samething, minus trapt door designs like the epic or alien

[68magOwner]

barrels IMO

one .689 tube isnt going to make your ball fly straighter or further than any other .689 tube

[TheTramp]

As I do respect your opinion, I cannot quite say its a gimmick. A gimmick would be pure BS. Spec Ops products aren't BS. They are just another line of scenario gear that have a bit better function that others. They make air-through stocks (as opposed to people making them, for some people wouldn't even know where to start). I have an A-5 with some Spec Ops stuff for it, and their products are really pretty good. As far as the Longbow, I cannot say it improves the Tac-One, but I can say if thats what one wanted for their style of play, than its a good product. A lot of people enjoy the longbow. Its all about what one wants for their style of play.


I agree.

Spec-ops parts aren't "gimmicks" anymore than fancy ano is. In fact, for scenario play having a stock (or whatever part) can help your game depending on your style of play. A bright orange/green/yelow gun isn't going to help anything other than your "standing" in the staging area no matter what type of game you play.

I'm not saying that fancy ano is stupid, just using it as an example of something that would be more of a gimmick then the functional spec-ops parts. In fact many of the milsim parts out there are just as cosmetic as fancy ano.

[BD_Paintball]

have to go with the obvious, lvl 10 does not chop

[NinjaoftheNight79]

Ano is ok for most speedball. If your playing in bright bunkers in (ussually) bright jerseys, then your marker color is optional.

[hitech]

I'd have to say after barrels it would be low pressure. Then again, I was in I&I sports in San Jose and heard the guy behind the counter tell the customer that the marker he was purchasing was more accurate because it was a closed bolt... :rolleyes:

The need for high ROF is another one...

[TheTramp]

have to go with the obvious, lvl 10 does not chop

Do you guys (other than rkjunior303 who I know was kidding) really believe that the L10 is a "gimmick?"

Why'll it's not the most perfect thing ever created for paintball, it does work well and can hardly be called a gimmick. I mean come on, it allows high rates of fire in a gun without eyes for god sake. When it came out it made a lot of our (mag users) paintball lives better.

[Jackel411]

To me the latest gimmicks??

Mil-Sim , cheater boards , and the PB as Fashion thing

[Lohman446]

Do you guys (other than rkjunior303 who I know was kidding) really believe that the L10 is a "gimmick?"

Why'll it's not the most perfect thing ever created for paintball, it does work well and can hardly be called a gimmick. I mean come on, it allows high rates of fire in a gun without eyes for god sake. When it came out it made a lot of our (mag users) paintball lives better.

Do I beleive that AO overrates it? Yes
Does it function well most of the time for most of the people? Yes
Not a gimmick, but not what AO (or some of AO) makes it out to be either.

[NinjaoftheNight79]

Do you guys (other than rkjunior303 who I know was kidding) really believe that the L10 is a "gimmick?"

Why'll it's not the most perfect thing ever created for paintball, it does work well and can hardly be called a gimmick. I mean come on, it allows high rates of fire in a gun without eyes for god sake. When it came out it made a lot of our (mag users) paintball lives better.

Exactly. Plus did you see the video on the LVL 10 disc of the test they did on the low impact of it? They trust that anti-chop enough to put a little metal piece in the marker, and a man's tongue (obviously still part of his body), in the open chamber of an E-Mag. They actually shot the marker with his tongue in the way. They shot it quite a few times, and it did no damage to his tongue. If it will wont smash a mans tongue, it wont (easily) chop a paintball. The lvl 10 is not a gimmick. No form of anti-chop is a gimmick. It is a true piece of genious for mag owners.

[lather]

As I do respect your opinion, I cannot quite say its a gimmick. A gimmick would be pure BS. Spec Ops products aren't BS. They are just another line of scenario gear that have a bit better function that others. They make air-through stocks (as opposed to people making them, for some people wouldn't even know where to start). I have an A-5 with some Spec Ops stuff for it, and their products are really pretty good. As far as the Longbow, I cannot say it improves the Tac-One, but I can say if thats what one wanted for their style of play, than its a good product. A lot of people enjoy the longbow. Its all about what one wants for their style of play.

I said some of their items are gimmicks, not all. Actually they are very clever in their marketing of woodsball products.

The Longbow is marketed as a sniper type weapon correct? It is a 21 round magazine fitted on a RT valved gun (tac one). A classic valved longbow would be much better suited for it and much less expensive then the RT equipped longbow.

Think about this, you have 21 rounds--why would you need an RT valve? Also by the very nature of properly chronoing a RT you would be at a velocity/range disadvantage by taking slow shots spread over a long period of time. A classic valve would be superior performer in this case. If someone wants a longbow that is fine with me, but using an RT valved marker as a 21 round sniper rifle is a waste of money.

I have an A5 too, and I have some Specops items on it and they work well, but in the case of a the Longbow- poorly executed and needlessly expensive choice of gunplatform---a gimmick imo. Maybe thats why they came out with the Q-bow soon after.

[WARPED1]

have to go with the obvious, lvl 10 does not chop
The tagline for LX should've been "Level 10, it'll make your mag leak like mad until you spend all your playing time adjusting it." ;)
Is it perfect? No, does it work most of the time as advertised? Yes.

[wimag]

The tagline for LX should've been "Level 10, it'll make your mag leak like mad until you spend all your playing time adjusting it." ;)
Is it perfect? No, does it work most of the time as advertised? Yes.

tuned mine from when it was Beta and never touched it since, Too bad you were not mechanically inclined enough to figure it out. oh almost forgot ;)

[WARPED1]

tuned mine from when it was Beta and never touched it since, Too bad you were not mechanically inclined enough to figure it out. oh almost forgot ;)
I got my Emag LX tuned, after missing many games. Sold the E before I had to tune it again. Is it worth buying for any mag? Yes.

[Carbon]

Whoa ok good stuff.

keep 'em coming

[BD_Paintball]

tuned mine from when it was Beta and never touched it since, Too bad you were not mechanically inclined enough to figure it out. oh almost forgot ;)
i guess the AGD techs are also not mechanically inclined enough to tune mine when i had it :rolleyes: . i took it to them 2 times and it still chopped when i got it home and shot it. it does not always work and its not that good. unless you like to mess with the lvl10 instead of playing in games, then its great

[Cow hunter]

from what some people said here, im going to come to the conclusion that pro players are the biggest gimmik.....according to most of the people in this thread the biggest gimmiks are;

Team specific guns.

Chris Lasoya's pony tail....

Paintball specific shoes.

LPR's for shockers, Delrin triggers,self cleaning eyes

marker speed

paintball socks made by Dye

The biggest gimmick in paintball today is the whole mindset of being 'agg'. New players see these guys with $2000 markers, and HK Support painted all over their equipment, then go out there and get bonus balled, and dont wanna play anymore.
Reply With Quote

Selling guns tha can shoot 20+ and 30+ BPS, when most tournys cap it at 15

barrels
and where do we find these things most commonly? PRO PLAYERS
so are they the biggest gimmiks? or maybe just the people who use these gimmiks....

[hitech]

...I'm going to come to the conclusion that pro players are the biggest gimmik.....

You know, you have a point there.... :spit_take

[TheTramp]

PRO PLAYERS
so are they the biggest gimmiks? or maybe just the people who use these gimmiks....

Well, they are being paid to sell the latest gimmick so..... :D

[Carbon]

HAHAHA i just reposted this topic on PBN. sooo amusing. epople get sooo defensive, man...

[SpitFire1299]

"Level 10 doesn't chop" ;)
:nono: It doesnt chop.

[Carbon]

from what some people said here, im going to come to the conclusion that pro players are the biggest gimmik.....according to most of the people in this thread the biggest gimmiks are;

and where do we find these things most commonly? PRO PLAYERS
so are they the biggest gimmiks? or maybe just the people who use these gimmiks....

well, maybe the players themselves arent the gimmick but, the lifestyle that is marketed and advertised is def. a gimmick. I mean, if you think about it. All the pro players really want to do is just play paintball and be the best at it. they just want to compete. Then you have a group of marketing people dictating to younger players that to be the best you have to have Brand X doohickey to even get your foot in the door.

[drg]

I have to strongly disagree with the thought that barrels are gimmicks, let alone the biggest gimmick in paintball. Beyond the accuracy issue (which IMO isn't imaginary), barrels have very real and easily noted effects on sound signature and marker efficiency. Barrels can even have a bit of utility, if you consider that longer barrels are sometimes used to play air bunkers tighter.

My vote for biggest gimmick in paintball would be ... stickers

[skife]

Biggest PB gimmick


HK army...

from what i've read, HK sucks...

[Lohman446]

Bringing a 16yr old kid that looks 12 to tournaments with you as a ringer because he has more experience than the rest of your team

/It works surprisingly well

[WARPED1]

Biggest PB gimmick


HK army...

from what i've read, HK sucks...
Very much............

[WenULiVeUdiE]

Biggest gimick I have ever seen.


Team specific guns.

If you are reffering to a series of team guns, such as the Joy Division Angels, then I do agree. However, if you are reffering to one team shooting the same type of marker, such as DM4's, then I disagree.

[skife]

someone needs to make a poll

[ramennoodles]

Angel Shot Glasses...

Why did we stop asking ourselves questions? I have no idea.

[skife]

Angel Shot Glasses...

Why did we stop asking ourselves questions? I have no idea.


nothing's wrong with those, its just like having shot glasses with your favroite sports team on them.

[Lohman446]

nothing's wrong with those, its just like having shot glasses with your favroite sports team on them.

Besides, many of us combine drinking and paintball :D

[automikey]

I think marker speed has become the new gimmick.

This is what sells new guns (I need a faster gun!) and upgraded boards (I need a faster gun!).

It's also great for business, since now you'll shoot more paintballs (thanks, faster gun!).

The quest for a faster gun has pumped a lot of money into the industry. How ofter have you seen someone with a 6 month old, $1000 marker say "I'm going to sell this and get the new, faster model."? And then you have to shoot lots of paint just showing it off at the field.


Now that I think of it, this also sells lots of ball carrying gear.

My local field is pretty small, we usually have less than 10 to a team, and I always laugh when the electro guys come to play woodsball and bring 6 pods full of paint. I'm thinking "you know there's only 5 of us, right? How many times do you plan on missing?"

[onedude36]

Jerseys. Too many people have them. Whats the point? $80-100+ for a bright colored shirt that i can buy at walmart for 8 bucks. 'but the material makes you sweat less' orly? then why are you wearing 4 shirts underneath? you wouldnt know if winter hit. and i think my $8 oversized black long sleved shirt is downright sexy. maybe im the only one. kthxby

[yingyang]

The idea of speed making you the "paintball god" is something that has been played up, A LOT. Also paintball pants(DYE) c mon over 100 dollars for a pair of pants, they better have Hollister writin on it somewhere.

[Arstron]

SP Magic Box! :dance:

[onedude36]

The idea of speed making you the "paintball god" is something that has been played up, A LOT. Also paintball pants(DYE) c mon over 100 dollars for a pair of pants, they better have Hollister writin on it somewhere.
I actually own a pair of c4's and i think they are worth it. Ive had them for probably a year, 1 rip in the left lower knee im to lazy to fix. It is easier on the knees for sliding, and they have out lasted my old camos X10. as a bonus you get a little crotch protection, which i just recently found out, is a great bonus. still dont think jerseys have an advantage though...

'SP Magic Box!' Arstron

Im pretty sure it had a purpose. I think it was a velocity cheat with c02. Oh wait, this was the good old days, no one cheated :rolleyes:


and how come i cant use 2 quote tags? :tard:

[50 cal]

barrels IMO

one .689 tube isnt going to make your ball fly straighter or further than any other .689 tube


Heretic!! Burn him!!


On a lighter note, BPS. Nothing better than telling someone "Wow, you missed me 400 times."

[AutomagRT1483]

If you are reffering to a series of team guns, such as the Joy Division Angels, then I do agree. However, if you are reffering to one team shooting the same type of marker, such as DM4's, then I disagree.


Referring to a series of team guns. Like the Dynasty Shocker, Joy Division Angel, all the different team Timmys, etc. etc. ;)

[Troen]

ill be the first to say it. IONS! according to pbn, they're better then my crappy emag. damn, and i spent all that money on it. :cry:

[pachytriton]

www.paintballfashion.com
'nuf said

[ramennoodles]

www.paintballfashion.com
'nuf said


Ohhh, that's a good one.

-Isaac.

[NinjaoftheNight79]

I said some of their items are gimmicks, not all. Actually they are very clever in their marketing of woodsball products.

The Longbow is marketed as a sniper type weapon correct? It is a 21 round magazine fitted on a RT valved gun (tac one). A classic valved longbow would be much better suited for it and much less expensive then the RT equipped longbow.

Think about this, you have 21 rounds--why would you need an RT valve? Also by the very nature of properly chronoing a RT you would be at a velocity/range disadvantage by taking slow shots spread over a long period of time. A classic valve would be superior performer in this case. If someone wants a longbow that is fine with me, but using an RT valved marker as a 21 round sniper rifle is a waste of money.

I have an A5 too, and I have some Specops items on it and they work well, but in the case of a the Longbow- poorly executed and needlessly expensive choice of gunplatform---a gimmick imo. Maybe thats why they came out with the Q-bow soon after.

Why would slower shots matter? I mean, I know this and I havn't even shot my Tac-One yet (just got it and dont have a tank yet, long story). If you look in the RT ULE/Tac-One Manual, on page 8 (On the manual, but if you only got two sheets its the back of the X-Chamber sheet) you will see an explanation of what happens in an X-Valve (I dont know what an RT valve is) with differant input velocities. If you refer to the page before/front of x-valve sheet, you will see that the X-valve runs best at 750-850 psi. On page again it explains what happens at differant psi inputs. A high velocity brings more consistancy at faster rates of fire. A lower input brings more consistancy "all benefits of the fast reecharge regulator diminish and the regulater acts like the regulator on a 68AUTOMAG". The fast recharge is what heats the valve, and effects the consistancy by heating the air. If there is not fast recharge, there is no heat, meaning there is much fewer velocity fluctuations, meaning more consistancy at lower rates of fire (as a "sniper" would do). While this doesn't mean as much, for it still would be cheaper to do with a Classic Automag, but there are two very big problems. First off, the shroud and stock require a rail with three holes originally made for puting a sight rail on a mag. The shroud has three holes just as a sight rail does. As I do understand that you could argue that you probably could drill the holes in the rail of a Classic, if you know what your doing and it will work with that rail, there still is one other problem. The only way you can use the magazine system made by Special Ops paintball is by mounting the adapter on the rail infront of the feedneck. This means the marker would also require a Tac body to use the full system. In this case we realise that in order to use the Longbow kit exactly as Special Ops paintball does on a Classic, you would have to purchase a Tac body ($200) and possibly a rail with the holes such as the RT rail ($60) or try to get your hands on a the old wingless tac rails they dont use anymore (which may not be possible through AGD without some sort of mass order type of deal, for special ops only gets the older rails for their because they need them and special ops gives them a nice chunk of business). The least amount of money you would spend is $200 to do it youself. This would bring the cost to $430, only $20 less than a Tac-One, which has better capabilities. Even with some sort of business agreement between Spec Ops and AGD, they wouldn't get the intelliframe with very comforteable Dye Sticky 3s (ergonomics is what they go for) and a person with a stock Tac-One (or now one with the older rail since AGD stopped puting wingless tac rails on the Tac-Ones) would not be capable of upgrading their own marker into a longbow without a bunch of extra money (which was another goal of theirs). Now I do not intend to flame at all in any way if that is how this seems. I may be new to AGD and Automags, be fairly new to paintball itself, and let alone that be 15, but I have a habit of doing my research when I get in a dispute like this. I know what Special Ops wanted in from the Longbow, and I am sure they have tried to do everything to get it to be cheaper. Now they are running a Blackcell program to make many current speedball oriented markers into more woodsball oriented styles and set ups. Their first one is the ION, and they are making a Longbow version of it because it would cut the cost. This Blackcell Sniper Edition may not be (in my opinion) as great as a Tac-One Longbow, but it shows that they are attempting to lower the cost. I am sure they have looked into reducing the price. It is not as easy as you think sometimes. Im sorry if I sounded at all offending by this post.

[lather]

Why would slower shots matter? I mean, I know this and I havn't even shot my Tac-One yet (just got it and dont have a tank yet, long story). If you look in the RT ULE/Tac-One Manual, on page 8 (On the manual, but if you only got two sheets its the back of the X-Chamber sheet) you will see an explanation of what happens in an X-Valve (I dont know what an RT valve is) with differant input velocities. If you refer to the page before/front of x-valve sheet, you will see that the X-valve runs best at 750-850 psi. On page again it explains what happens at differant psi inputs. A high velocity brings more consistancy at faster rates of fire. A lower input brings more consistancy "all benefits of the fast reecharge regulator diminish and the regulater acts like the regulator on a 68AUTOMAG". The fast recharge is what heats the valve, and effects the consistancy by heating the air. If there is not fast recharge, there is no heat, meaning there is much fewer velocity fluctuations, meaning more consistancy at lower rates of fire (as a "sniper" would do). While this doesn't mean as much, for it still would be cheaper to do with a Classic Automag, but there are two very big problems. First off, the shroud and stock require a rail with three holes originally made for puting a sight rail on a mag. The shroud has three holes just as a sight rail does. As I do understand that you could argue that you probably could drill the holes in the rail of a Classic, if you know what your doing and it will work with that rail, there still is one other problem. The only way you can use the magazine system made by Special Ops paintball is by mounting the adapter on the rail infront of the feedneck. This means the marker would also require a Tac body to use the full system. In this case we realise that in order to use the Longbow kit exactly as Special Ops paintball does on a Classic, you would have to purchase a Tac body ($200) and possibly a rail with the holes such as the RT rail ($60) or try to get your hands on a the old wingless tac rails they dont use anymore (which may not be possible through AGD without some sort of mass order type of deal, for special ops only gets the older rails for their because they need them and special ops gives them a nice chunk of business). The least amount of money you would spend is $200 to do it youself. This would bring the cost to $430, only $20 less than a Tac-One, which has better capabilities. Even with some sort of business agreement between Spec Ops and AGD, they wouldn't get the intelliframe with very comforteable Dye Sticky 3s (ergonomics is what they go for) and a person with a stock Tac-One (or now one with the older rail since AGD stopped puting wingless tac rails on the Tac-Ones) would not be capable of upgrading their own marker into a longbow without a bunch of extra money (which was another goal of theirs). Now I do not intend to flame at all in any way if that is how this seems. I may be new to AGD and Automags, be fairly new to paintball itself, and let alone that be 15, but I have a habit of doing my research when I get in a dispute like this. I know what Special Ops wanted in from the Longbow, and I am sure they have tried to do everything to get it to be cheaper. Now they are running a Blackcell program to make many current speedball oriented markers into more woodsball oriented styles and set ups. Their first one is the ION, and they are making a Longbow version of it because it would cut the cost. This Blackcell Sniper Edition may not be (in my opinion) as great as a Tac-One Longbow, but it shows that they are attempting to lower the cost. I am sure they have looked into reducing the price. It is not as easy as you think sometimes. Im sorry if I sounded at all offending by this post.

By RT valve I meant Xvalve, my bad.

Actually what you posted is my point about the longbow. The longbow is marketed for those that want to be slow careful "sniper" types who want the utmost in accuracy, that means good consistency on slow deliberate shots. In an X-valve mag if you want the maximum consistant velocity on slow careful shots like you would be taking with the longbow's 21 round magazine, you would have to lower your input pressure so the valve acts exactly like a Classsic Mag.

Then why not just offer the longbow equipped with the less expensive Classic mag isntead of the more expensive X-valve? The longbow is akin to buying a Ferrari and only using it to drive to the 711 down the street.

Your post is not offending no need to be sorry, difference of opinion is all it is ;)

[wimag]

i guess the AGD techs are also not mechanically inclined enough to tune mine when i had it :rolleyes: . i took it to them 2 times and it still chopped when i got it home and shot it. it does not always work and its not that good. unless you like to mess with the lvl10 instead of playing in games, then its great

bummer for you. did you ever try tuning it yourself or did you always give it to a tech ?
i am sure they need to be adjusted, that info was pretty fronted out when they first came out and everyone was tweaking theirs. trial and error from the get go.
But to make a statement that you will be messing with the level 10 as opposed to playing games is an exaggeration.

Of all the "gimmicks" out there the level 10 in pretty proven in my book as something that backs up its claims

[automikey]

Of all the "gimmicks" out there the level 10 in pretty proven in my book as something that backs up its claims


I got mine from Tuna and it was tuned, I broke the typical 1-2 balls per case (could easily be the paintball itself to blame).

[mandatory]

'paintball refs'...You put 20 of em on a field and people are still cheating left and right. plus "your clean!!" if they're your friends, but 'that paint ball you just kneeled on is a hit" if they're not.

[LONEWOLFOO1]

By RT valve I meant Xvalve, my bad.

Actually what you posted is my point about the longbow. The longbow is marketed for those that want to be slow careful "sniper" types who want the utmost in accuracy, that means good consistency on slow deliberate shots. In an X-valve mag if you want the maximum consistant velocity on slow careful shots like you would be taking with the longbow's 21 round magazine, you would have to lower your input pressure so the valve acts exactly like a Classsic Mag.

Then why not just offer the longbow equipped with the less expensive Classic mag isntead of the more expensive X-valve? The longbow is akin to buying a Ferrari and only using it to drive to the 711 down the street.

Your post is not offending no need to be sorry, difference of opinion is all it is ;)

that is why most people go for the qbow it make use of the tac one abiltys much better nobody goes for the clip version of the longbow. don't feel bad i haven't fire my tac one since i bought it 2004 i am building myself a q bow i not going for the sniper role i just want a smaller profile. (plus i hate hoppers) i was glad when i bought my tac one when i did i knew they was going to change the body. (i have a silver tab tac one) :nono:

[sol tank]

barrels IMO

one .689 tube isnt going to make your ball fly straighter or further than any other .689 tube


i've seen a lot of crappy barrels out there. One of the worst ive seen is my friends stock ion barrel. its like sand paper in there. Much better performance with his new JJ

[Carbon]

for the record, as an owner of 2 mags, the LX is not a gimmick. Is it bullet proof? no, nothing is. No gun is chop free. When properly installed and tuned does the LX work as advertised? Yes it does.

My LX'd emag has shot at least 100,000 rnds, still on its original carrier oring, no BS. I can count on my hand the number of times where the lx did chop, incidentally, those times were in cold weather with brittle paint.

[WARPED1]

i've seen a lot of crappy barrels out there. One of the worst ive seen is my friends stock ion barrel. its like sand paper in there. Much better performance with his new JJ
J+J barrels are nice, I love the old school brass ones.
Another gimmick is Intimidators. They're all realitively the same, only real difference is milling. And I even like Intimiadators, but I flat out refuse to call them Timmy's. Timmy is the retarded kid in the wheelchair on South Park. Mr Garrison" What's the answer? Timmy, do you know?" Timmy: "TIMMY!"

[fullofpaint]

Then why not just offer the longbow equipped with the less expensive Classic mag isntead of the more expensive X-valve? The longbow is akin to buying a Ferrari and only using it to drive to the 711 down the street.



Probaly cause AGD doesn't sell a marker that's equipped with a classic valve and has the RT Pro rail holes that are necessary to install their stock.

[Crazy]

Biggest PB gimmick


HK army...

from what i've read, HK sucks...

Thats funny, Most of them play D1, Semi-pro, and Pro.
What do you play?

[UTDragun]

Thats funny, Most of them play D1, Semi-pro, and Pro.
What do you play?
that would just support that pro players are gimmicks

greenspan or somebody notorious got bunkered by some kid with a pump a while ago

ramping/bounce is a gimmick, it takes skill out of the sport. it makes running drills so much easier.

[AGD]

What, no one mentions "low pressure"!!??

AGD :)

[hitech]

What, no one mentions "low pressure"!!??

AGD :)

Gotcha....


I'd have to say after barrels it would be low pressure.


:cheers:

[NinjaoftheNight79]

By RT valve I meant Xvalve, my bad.

Actually what you posted is my point about the longbow. The longbow is marketed for those that want to be slow careful "sniper" types who want the utmost in accuracy, that means good consistency on slow deliberate shots. In an X-valve mag if you want the maximum consistant velocity on slow careful shots like you would be taking with the longbow's 21 round magazine, you would have to lower your input pressure so the valve acts exactly like a Classsic Mag.

Then why not just offer the longbow equipped with the less expensive Classic mag isntead of the more expensive X-valve? The longbow is akin to buying a Ferrari and only using it to drive to the 711 down the street.

Your post is not offending no need to be sorry, difference of opinion is all it is ;)


True, but it still would be much easier to mount the kit on a Tac-One due to the rails and (previously) the drilled holes in the rails. If you have time, look at the pcture of it on the Special Ops site (no means to advertise, sry). If you look, the shroud that holds the stock really does require the holes, and the mag kit really does require the front rail.

I heard SP Magic Box somewhere. Lol, I heard that was a huge gimmick, but supposedly made the mages run on slightly lower pressure. Something like if you kept the same velocity without re-chronoing it actually added about 4 ft until you turned it down ;)

[Baby Huey]

1) "sponsored". A lot of the time I hear of somebody quitting PB or a well known team they have something to say about the politics of sponsorship (on the scenerio side).

2)The post that said refs, so true.

3)"ramping" overrated, I have boards in both of my shockers and have used ramping maybe 10 times.

4)"the complaint about ramping" , most fields dont allow it on rec days (only team practice and tournys). If you would use it on a rec day you are a scumbag anyway.

This is a great thread. Have a great day and God Bless.

how about a thread on the most underated aspect of PB.

[Carbon]

hmmm, interesting.

The underrated aspect of pb is probably the stuff that keeps us coming back to play.

You know a really good day of playing that people in general on messageboards get tired of reading or hearing about.

The most underated aspects of p.b., is not concrete, its immaterial IMHO. A lot of us throw a lot of money into playing (to a degree) an "evovled" version cops and robbers/cowboys and indians. Most of us will never get back in material wealth, what we put into paintball.

The sense of unity, even during those pickup games. The respect you earn from the regulars on the field. That feeling is almost unbeatable.

[Arstron]

Probaly cause AGD doesn't sell a marker that's equipped with a classic valve and has the RT Pro rail holes that are necessary to install their stock.

For a company such as specops, im sure they could make a deal with AGD to buy tac ones with classic valves instead of xvalves. ;) What they said does make sense, with a longbow (not q-bow), why would you need to shoot 10 bps with only 21 paintballs?

[electriceel125]

4)"the complaint about ramping" , most fields dont allow it on rec days (only team practice and tournys). If you would use it on a rec day you are a scumbag anyway.







Many places have those scumbags who insist on ramping while im shooting a single trigger cocker. 4 ramping egos VS 1 Slider Cocker = i need a shower


Low Pressure is a big one. And Aggness. Who ever came up with "aggness" needs to be flogged.

[drg]

C'mon now ... low pressure hasn't been a "gimmick" for ages! Since ... well ... the cocker vs. mag wars.

[BlackVCG]

On a lighter note, BPS. Nothing better than telling someone "Wow, you missed me 400 times."

Why is it so many people think this way about BPS? It's like the more paint you shoot the more you waste if you don't hit anyone.

If I shoot 1000 balls in one game and I never hit a single player I'll be perfectly fine with that if I used those 1000 balls to A) keep your head behind your bunker and B) advance my front guys so they can bunker you.

There's nothing quite like a stream of paint coming along side a bunker to keep a player from poking his head out that side and to force him to look out the side I could care less if he can look out from.

I'm sorry but some people need to understand that, at least in tournament paintball, paint is not always used with the sole purpose to eliminate another player. It's often used directly and indirectly to force your opponent to be ineffective and make your team's game plan work out as easily as possible.

There's a bit more strategy involved in tournament paintball than running around trying to shoot each other with really fast guns.

[Baby Huey]

Many places have those scumbags who insist on ramping while im shooting a single trigger cocker. 4 ramping egos VS 1 Slider Cocker = i need a shower


Low Pressure is a big one. And Aggness. Who ever came up with "aggness" needs to be flogged.

Those people stink.

I knew I was getting old (just turned 30) when at the last tourny I had to ask this kid what agg really meant. There is a whole list of words (I think somebody posted earlier) on PBN that bug me.

[ThePixelGuru]

Low pressure isn't always a gimmick. Yeah it's a gimmick if I say my 'cocker's better than my 'mag because it's lower pressure, but it's not a gimmick if I say that I like to run my 'cocker at the lowest pressure that I can. I get less kick with it like that, and that's never a bad thing. But yeah, saying markers that take a low pressure input are better than those that take a high pressure input is dumb, because it always takes the same force to get the paintball going no matter what marker it's in.

[pachytriton]

agnes-its a funny name for a funny girl, and all I wanted was for her to rock my world!
any string cheese incident fans?

[Lohman446]

Why is it so many people think this way about BPS? It's like the more paint you shoot the more you waste if you don't hit anyone.

If I shoot 1000 balls in one game and I never hit a single player I'll be perfectly fine with that if I used those 1000 balls to A) keep your head behind your bunker and B) advance my front guys so they can bunker you.

There's nothing quite like a stream of paint coming along side a bunker to keep a player from poking his head out that side and to force him to look out the side I could care less if he can look out from.

I'm sorry but some people need to understand that, at least in tournament paintball, paint is not always used with the sole purpose to eliminate another player. It's often used directly and indirectly to force your opponent to be ineffective and make your team's game plan work out as easily as possible.

There's a bit more strategy involved in tournament paintball than running around trying to shoot each other with really fast guns.

Your right. I often enough remark on how little paint I use on any given day / tournament. If my back players were not dumping paint, it would surely change things drastically.

[shartley]

Why is it so many people think this way about BPS? It's like the more paint you shoot the more you waste if you don't hit anyone.

If I shoot 1000 balls in one game and I never hit a single player I'll be perfectly fine with that if I used those 1000 balls to A) keep your head behind your bunker and B) advance my front guys so they can bunker you.

There's nothing quite like a stream of paint coming along side a bunker to keep a player from poking his head out that side and to force him to look out the side I could care less if he can look out from.

I'm sorry but some people need to understand that, at least in tournament paintball, paint is not always used with the sole purpose to eliminate another player. It's often used directly and indirectly to force your opponent to be ineffective and make your team's game plan work out as easily as possible.

There's a bit more strategy involved in tournament paintball than running around trying to shoot each other with really fast guns.
I think some times there is a definite misunderstanding on BPS and its use. What you describe however is not what I would call a BPS issue, but a general paint use issue.

You can keep someone’s head down with 9 BPS, 15 BPS, or higher. And honestly, well timed bursts will do the same thing.

I think that when “some” people talk about BPS being paint wasters they are probably not really talking about BPS but the total amount of paint shot. You can accomplish the same thing in most cases with half the BPS.

And I personally don’t have any issues with how much (or little) paint anyone uses. And I don’t have a problem with high ROF’s. I just think that trying to justify a high BPS rate to keep someone’s head down is not accurate when you can do the same thing with half the BPS. Now on the other hand, snap shooting at high BPS is darn fine. It allows you to put a larger amount of balls on a given target (or area) in a shorter amount of time… allowing you to be exposed for less time.

But you are correct that not all paint shot is designed to “hit” someone. Teamwork is important in all forms of play, and sometimes you have to sacrifice paint to allow another player to get into a better position to eliminate the opposing team/player.

I don’t see the BPS issue as cut and dry (good/bad), you have to look at the circumstances. And honestly, like I stated, I think a lot of high ROF guys like to use arguments that simply don’t hold up when looked at logically. Sure, shoot fast and as much as you like. But just because everyone is doing it does not mean there is a justifiable reason. I think the main reason high BPS is used in long streams in tournament play is that you don’t have to think about control or limiting your speed. It is easier to just rip away. This helps the player focus on other aspects of the game. I also think that if full auto was allowed you would see that used all the time too… for the same reason.

Please don’t think I am knocking high ROF though, because I am not. I understand its uses and why it is used. I just don’t agree with some of the justifications players use for it. Not when it is perfectly clear that lower sustained ROFs can accomplish the same thing. But heck, “because I can” is often a good enough reason, so have fun. it is not my playing style, but to each their own.
:cheers:

[LONEWOLFOO1]

well said i play some speedball and my back guys just lay it on thick i told them to change it up and use 3 rounds burts 6 rounds and he said that i don't time to think like that i just keeping spraying until i come around to bunker him. i feel you can get the same effect with less paintballs but then again imagine what the oppenent is think i can't move at all because there is no break coming from the paint. its a constant stream of fire its hard to dodge that. :shooting:

[Carbon]

Respones to threads like this is why i like this place... :cheers:

[fullofpaint]

For a company such as specops, im sure they could make a deal with AGD to buy tac ones with classic valves instead of xvalves. ;)

That's ture, one other thing though that I think they went with the x-valve is modualrity(sp). I own a q-bow personally but once in a while I switch out the q-loader and play with the lonbow stick feed, and I also play tournaments with it and just take off the stock.

[hitech]

One of the problems with higher ROFs is that it is used as an excuse for overshooting. it's gotten so common that everyone just accepts it. including myself... :(

[BlackVCG]

Shartley-

Yes, you have a point. The same effect can often be achieved with a lower ROF, however it's very circumstancial. Part of it is a psychological effect to the opponent when they have 8bps or 15bps coming at them. It's a dramatic difference, but also like I said, depending on the circumstance less could do just as well. In closer range situation a lower ROF would work fine since the time between the ball leaving your barrel and passing the opponents bunker is much shorter and there's much less deviation in the shot grouping of the paint.

Laying paint down the side of a bunker is primarily to keep the other player from coming out that side, but also so in the event that player tries to take a peek and see what's going on, he's going to have some of my paint going right through his zone. At that point, I want the largest volume of paint in that area so in that split second he pokes his head out, my odds are much greater one of the rounds will land on him.

I guess I didn't fully detail my justifications for high ROF, because there's one primary benefit I left out. Off the break I want the highest ROF my gun can put out. I want to lay ropes of paint down every running lane and drop as many of their guys as possible off the break. It's simple statistics that the more paint I have in the air, the greater the odds are when a player runs through my rope of paint, one will hit him.

Can you hit people off the break with lower ROF? Yes. Is it as effective? No.

[tae]

I personaly am more affraid when nobody is shooting at me. Its the anticipation of getting surprised I guess.

:shooting: :sleeping:

[shartley]

Shartley-

Yes, you have a point. The same effect can often be achieved with a lower ROF, however it's very circumstancial. Part of it is a psychological effect to the opponent when they have 8bps or 15bps coming at them. It's a dramatic difference, but also like I said, depending on the circumstance less could do just as well. In closer range situation a lower ROF would work fine since the time between the ball leaving your barrel and passing the opponents bunker is much shorter and there's much less deviation in the shot grouping of the paint.

Laying paint down the side of a bunker is primarily to keep the other player from coming out that side, but also so in the event that player tries to take a peek and see what's going on, he's going to have some of my paint going right through his zone. At that point, I want the largest volume of paint in that area so in that split second he pokes his head out, my odds are much greater one of the rounds will land on him.

I guess I didn't fully detail my justifications for high ROF, because there's one primary benefit I left out. Off the break I want the highest ROF my gun can put out. I want to lay ropes of paint down every running lane and drop as many of their guys as possible off the break. It's simple statistics that the more paint I have in the air, the greater the odds are when a player runs through my rope of paint, one will hit him.

Can you hit people off the break with lower ROF? Yes. Is it as effective? No.
This is all true. I was just trying to make the point that what may be easier for a player is not always “needed” by a player. I believe that skill gets left behind many times when picking up a high ROF marker. Why work at skills to do the same things that can be done with lower ROFs and practice? Just pick up a marker that puts more paint in the air.

I don’t mean that comment to cover ALL players, but I think you understand where I am coming from. It is used as a crutch far too often. But when coupled with true skills… oh my, watch out.

And I will also add that the style of game played makes a big difference as well. Folks should pick a marker and playing style that fits the format they are playing.

[Lohman446]

This is all true. I was just trying to make the point that what may be easier for a player is not always “needed” by a player. I believe that skill gets left behind many times when picking up a high ROF marker. Why work at skills to do the same things that can be done with lower ROFs and practice? Just pick up a marker that puts more paint in the air.

I love playing with people who think that more paint in the air can totally overcome skill :D .

Might it help? Sure

Does more paint in the air increase your odds of being lucky? Sure

Does it, on a normal basis, overcome a player with higher skill using the same, or lower ROF? Not a chance

[automikey]

And I will also add that the style of game played makes a big difference as well. Folks should pick a marker and playing style that fits the format they are playing.


How about we call the casual, backyard, woods, etc. players the "paintball" players (like the old days) and the flashy, fast, "bunkers on flat grass only" players the "speedball" players.

Now we don't have to argue, if you show up for a speedball game dressed in camo with your pump gun, they can criticize your ROF, etc. since it is a valid comment regarding the game you are playing.

And when you show up to a woodsball game in your matching red jersey and pants, shooting 23 bps (which I think you can only do while standing still at the chrono booth, but anyway), you'll understand why you get comments like "how many times are you planning on missing your target?".


And peace fell over the land...

[s_familiar]

I must say that watching the Speedballers complaining when they have to play woodball is great. Even better when you snipe them from a patch of grass in front of them with two aimed shots. :headbang:

[Arstron]

Now we don't have to argue, if you show up for a speedball game dressed in camo with your pump gun, they can criticize your ROF, etc. since it is a valid comment regarding the game you are playing.


i love playin speedball with my 12 grams and pump mag and maybe its just my area, but ive never been critisized for it. :)

[Baby Huey]

I must say that watching the Speedballers complaining when they have to play woodball is great. Even better when you snipe them from a patch of grass in front of them with two aimed shots. :headbang:

That is funny. It is almost as funny as when a woodsballer tries to make a move and thinks that he can outrun your shocker, and does not quite make it (me) :shooting: (him) :tard: (him) :cuss: (me) :rofl:

[tae]

i love playin speedball with my 12 grams and pump mag and maybe its just my area, but ive never been critisized for it. :)
AHH! A person who likes challenge! That the way to play in my humble opinion.

[Arstron]

That is funny. It is almost as funny as when a woodsballer tries to make a move and thinks that he can outrun your shocker, and does not quite make it (me) :shooting: (him) :tard: (him) :cuss: (me) :rofl:

funny same thing happens when i one ball somone on the run in a speedball game with my pump mag. Also same thing happens when somone with a nice electro emptys half a hopper at me and i take him out with only a couple shots. :dance:

Dont get me wrong, i like my electronic dragun mag also, but stock class is so much fun. :)

[Baby Huey]

funny same thing happens when i one ball somone on the run in a speedball game with my pump mag. Also same thing happens when somone with a nice electro emptys half a hopper at me and i take him out with only a couple shots. :dance:

Dont get me wrong, i like my electronic dragun mag also, but stock class is so much fun. :)

One of my teammates used a sweet pump. He never talk any trash though. When he gets you (with your 25bps or whatever) after the game all you see is a little smile ;)

[BlackVCG]

This is all true. I was just trying to make the point that what may be easier for a player is not always “needed” by a player. I believe that skill gets left behind many times when picking up a high ROF marker. Why work at skills to do the same things that can be done with lower ROFs and practice? Just pick up a marker that puts more paint in the air.

I don’t mean that comment to cover ALL players, but I think you understand where I am coming from. It is used as a crutch far too often. But when coupled with true skills… oh my, watch out.

And I will also add that the style of game played makes a big difference as well. Folks should pick a marker and playing style that fits the format they are playing.


I think we're pretty well on the same page. :cheers:

[shartley]

I think we're pretty well on the same page. :cheers:
Yes. :)

[Troen]

i got owned by a phantom, i cried.

[NinjaoftheNight79]

That's ture, one other thing though that I think they went with the x-valve is modualrity(sp). I own a q-bow personally but once in a while I switch out the q-loader and play with the lonbow stick feed, and I also play tournaments with it and just take off the stock.

This is a big thing Spec Ops likes to do. They dont seem to like nonreverseable modifications. There are a few of these they will do, such as the origional A-5A2 Kit (where you must cut a big part out of the left reciever plate of an A-5 to put on a new tombstone that has a 90* macro elbow out of the side so the macro of their air-through stocks are completely out of the way). The thing is, even with this impossible to reverse mod, you can still use it as a stock A-5 just like any other stock A-5, but with a cut in the side. Spec Ops likes to let you put it back to stock. They ussually also like to let you put mods on, and take them off later without finding that the mod killed the cosmetics of the base marker. Its just how they are, and it prevents a lot of stress that isnt needed. Spec Ops likes to let you put it back to a stock base marker for you. Its just part of it. If they Specially ordered them with Classic valves, then people with stock Tac-Ones may feel they need a Classic Valve to use it as a consistant "sniper" marker, which as I have shown is not true. Spec Ops is a huge fan of sticking to base markers. I really dont think they like buying specially ordered markers like that.

[automikey]

This is a big thing Spec Ops likes to do. They dont seem to like nonreverseable modifications. There are a few of these they will do, such as the origional A-5A2 Kit (where you must cut a big part out of the left reciever plate of an A-5 to put on a new tombstone that has a 90* macro elbow out of the side so the macro of their air-through stocks are completely out of the way). The thing is, even with this impossible to reverse mod, you can still use it as a stock A-5 just like any other stock A-5, but with a cut in the side. Spec Ops likes to let you put it back to stock. They ussually also like to let you put mods on, and take them off later without finding that the mod killed the cosmetics of the base marker. Its just how they are, and it prevents a lot of stress that isnt needed. Spec Ops likes to let you put it back to a stock base marker for you. Its just part of it. If they Specially ordered them with Classic valves, then people with stock Tac-Ones may feel they need a Classic Valve to use it as a consistant "sniper" marker, which as I have shown is not true. Spec Ops is a huge fan of sticking to base markers. I really dont think they like buying specially ordered markers like that.


Well, Spec Ops makes ME hot cocoa, reads to me and tucks me in at night. Beat that. :D

[dahoeb]

hmmm,
i agree with all that say bps is the biggest gimmick. true that.
the one that ticks me off the most though is the closed bolt gimmick, especially when there have been numerous tests that disprove all of its claims. shame on you wgp, shame on you.

[drg]

the one that ticks me off the most though is the closed bolt gimmick, especially when there have been numerous tests that disprove all of its claims. shame on you wgp, shame on you.

another one that hasn't been a "gimmick" for years ... actually now i'm starting to see "open bolt accuracy" claims.

[electriceel125]

another one that hasn't been a "gimmick" for years ... actually now i'm starting to see "open bolt accuracy" claims.


I was told by a ref about three months ago that i needed to play back since i was shooting a cocker because it shot further and more accurate. He was a "tourney" player.

[RapidTransit]

Jerseys. Too many people have them. Whats the point? $80-100+ for a bright colored shirt that i can buy at walmart for 8 bucks. 'but the material makes you sweat less' orly? then why are you wearing 4 shirts underneath? you wouldnt know if winter hit. and i think my $8 oversized black long sleved shirt is downright sexy. maybe im the only one. kthxby
Thets a real iffy question... Alot of the PB gear is similar to MX stuff from the likes of Fox Racing. I have one of their jersies its great to wear a long sleeve that is very light weight and won't make you sweat plus extra padding in the elbows their race pants are the same way, made with good abrassive resistant material that helps you stay cool on a 90 degree day. Shoes.. I could see cleats branded by manufacturers. Lets face it how many bikers and skateboarders wear brand specific shoes? I remember I had some some airwalks that were designed to not slip on pedals they sucked in comparison to my Nike cross trainers :rofl:

[slateman]

tuned mine from when it was Beta and never touched it since, Too bad you were not mechanically inclined enough to figure it out. oh almost forgot ;)

Same with mine.

Gotta go with "paintball shoes" Dumb. Either get cleats or hiking boots

[dahoeb]

another one that hasn't been a "gimmick" for years ... actually now i'm starting to see "open bolt accuracy" claims.

are you serious? i'm not trying to be rude or anything, i just am not 100% certain whether you;re being sarcastic or not. :confused:

either way, i've played with many a cocker and have seen nothing that supports the claims of "longer range" or "accuracy". the cocker seems to do the same thing as every other paintball marker i've used; it shoots paintballs, with air, down a tube. no matter how you fancy it up, its the same basic thing for every marker. i have NEVER seen a test result to disprove my experiences. i have only seen tests that support my statements.
until i see otherwise.....

[ThePixelGuru]

I'm gonna have to disagree with BPS being a gimmick. It's probably the least gimmicky thing in paintball. Yeah, 30 vs 36 BPS is kind of pointless, but those of you who say 3 shot bursts or 9 BPS is all you need are missing the point a bit. Is it enough? Yeah, but it's not the best. If you're playing for fun, you don't have to worry about this, but recball isn't what sells the latest and greatest markers. Those markers are sold to the people who are in the game to play it well, those who are in it to win. I don't shoot a lot of paint, personally - I play mostly recball, and I play front in tournyball, so I'm not firing ropes of 20 balls a second. But you can be damn sure I want my back players pouring paint down the field as fast as they can pull and in as large quantities as our budget affords. The more paint flying at the other guys, the less time they've got to shoot me as I move up to get an angle on them.

Could we do this with less paint? Yeah, probably. But it certainly offers us a little advantage, and I'm not going to turn that down. Besides, even as a front player, it's still important. If I snap out and shoot a three shot burst at someone, it's never going to be as good as shooting 10 balls in as little time. Why would I only want 3 chances to hit someone when I could have 10? BPS isn't the end all and be all of figuring out which marker to buy, but it's not a gimmick to be disregarded, either.

"Accuracy by volume has been, and will remain, the best way to score eliminations." -TK
^ Seems like I quote that all the time...

[latches109]

an example of a huge gimmick, "The DM6" because it's, it's, um ?

[Troen]

an example of a huge gimmick, "The DM6" because it's, it's, um ?
.5 inches smaller and a few grams/ounces lighter, duh! :p

[drg]

are you serious? i'm not trying to be rude or anything, i just am not 100% certain whether you;re being sarcastic or not. :confused:

either way, i've played with many a cocker and have seen nothing that supports the claims of "longer range" or "accuracy". the cocker seems to do the same thing as every other paintball marker i've used; it shoots paintballs, with air, down a tube. no matter how you fancy it up, its the same basic thing for every marker. i have NEVER seen a test result to disprove my experiences. i have only seen tests that support my statements.
until i see otherwise.....

yeah i'm serious. that closed bolt is no more accurate than open bolt is years-old news. there are much more current gimmicks to say closed bolt is anywhere near the top of the list.

[Pyroboy597]

SmartParts putting the ion in some ugly shell and calling in a scenario gun. They even left the grips from the ion on it, and the same trigger, and underneath the plastic there is probably the same black dusted aluminum body. They deny that it is just an ion in the shell, kinda sad actually.

[FSU_Paintball]

an example of a huge gimmick, "The DM6" because it's, it's, um ?

No gimmick about that... same great performance as the previous DM series but much smaller and lighter. It's a great gun, it's not a gimmick.

[dahoeb]

yeah i'm serious. that closed bolt is no more accurate than open bolt is years-old news. there are much more current gimmicks to say closed bolt is anywhere near the top of the list.

whoops, my bad, drg. i completely misread your previous post.
the closed bolt claim is an old gimmick, but if you flip through the wgp advertisments in APG you'll see that bud orr is still pushing it to this day. but this post is not necessarily about new gimmicks though, just about gimmicks in general.

sorry about the misunderstanding.

[SPECK]

Autocockers being the most accurate markers. :rolleyes:

[drg]

Autocockers being the most accurate markers. :rolleyes:

I guess old habits die hard ... but get over it! The Mag v Cocker wars have been over for years. There is literally nothing about a cocker that would be on a current "biggest gimmick" list.

[Lohman446]

I guess old habits die hard ... but get over it! The Mag v Cocker wars have been over for years. There is literally nothing about a cocker that would be on a current "biggest gimmick" list.

Though they do currently claim, or insinuate, that closed bolt makes them more accurate.

[drg]

Though they do currently claim, or insinuate, that closed bolt makes them more accurate.

They have backed off considerably from this claim, most of their guns are simply promoted as closed-bolt, but not necessarily more accurate. They do occasionally claim "closed-bolt accuracy" as a benefit, but because of the widespread knowledge that it doesn't amount to anything, it can't really be considered a gimmick. I suspect it may be a remnant of the old marketing; it seems they have actually taken pains to NOT say closed-bolt is more accurate. Either way, I maintain that it hasn't been a true gimmick for years.

[latches109]

.5 inches smaller and a few grams/ounces lighter, duh! :p

o-o-o yoour right, i'm sorry, here's another 1400 :tard: see you next year for my DM7. :rolleyes: lol

[Troen]

o-o-o yoour right, i'm sorry, here's another 1400 :tard: see you next year for my DM7. :rolleyes: lol
rumor has it the dm7 will be so small and light, shoot fireballs, and ramp! all onlow pressure, of course!

[Baby Huey]

rumor has it the dm7 will be so small and light, shoot fireballs, and ramp! all onlow pressure, of course!

Actually on propane. But the '07 shoes will be filled with helium (spelling) and they make you run 32.546% faster.

[SCpoloRicker]

an example of a huge gimmick, "The DM6" because it's, it's, um ?

Dude, look at the pictures!!

I'm not a pro photographer, so just STFU & GBTW!!

LALALALALALALALALALALALA

*sticks fingers in ears*

/bit of an inside joke, natch ;)

[Chris]

Closed bolt = longer range

[grEnAlEins]

[insert "pro"] [owned, used, signed, touched, looked at] this "gat" so it is worth a great deal more.

Sorry, but unless the pro is someone who really matters to paintball, I am not interested. If the marker is [owned, used, signed, touched, looked at] by someone like TK, I am not interested at all. Even then, I cannot see paying too much more cash.

[NinjaoftheNight79]

[insert "pro"] [owned, used, signed, touched, looked at] this "gat" so it is worth a great deal more.

Sorry, but unless the pro is someone who really matters to paintball, I am not interested. If the marker is [owned, used, signed, touched, looked at] by someone like TK, I am not interested at all. Even then, I cannot see paying too much more cash.

Personally I could understand (hand) signed or owned by if it is a trophy marker or a promotional thing, but it has to be hand signed (not possible on a paintball gun as far as im concerned) or owned, and they probably get a new marker every game to keep the line of (insert player) used markers. Someone previously said team markers, but I disagree for it is a fun item. I would love to have a Dynasty shocker. They look cool, and they support the team.

I think the biggest gimmick is electronic fine-tuning. While it does make a marker "your marker", so does buying it, using it, keeping it maintained, and customizing it. Who needs electronic fine-tuning if you can have a custom milled body or a something of the sory.