why are our markers anodized?

[Jotsy]

i was wondering... why are all our markers anodized? i mean, why not something like powder coated or mebe even just plain ol painted? i mean... cars are just painted, why not markers?

[SpitFire1299]

i was wondering... why are all our markers anodized? i mean, why not something like powder coated or mebe even just plain ol painted? i mean... cars are just painted, why not markers?
Anno. is strong, and very reliable. Its also cheap and rather easy if you have the tools.

[Jotsy]

ok, but if i wanted to, would i be able to just paint it? you know, for that real custom graphics look :P

like, is there some kind of extra-hard-coat durable paint or something?

[Indignant]

Some guns are powdercoated. Guns like Tippmanns cannot be annoed, I believe it is because they are cast steel or something, so they are powder coated. Anno is just more durable IMO and it looks nicer. Paint does not stay on well, but there are many ways to have graphics done, such as laser engraving.

[magman007]

there is also graphic annodizing or annotat. www.absolutefinish.com can do annotatting

[shartley]

Yes, there are many ways to finish markers. Anno (as stated) just is the easiest and most cost effective for most paintball applications where aluminum is used. But you can use all sorts of things/methods to finish markers. There is a movement now seen to use DuraCoat (a firearms paint) on markers and it seems to work great. It provides a finish as strong as powder coating but does not require baking the marker. And I have seen folks use high quality spray paints (standard rattle cans) on markers with good results as well but you have to make sure you really take your time and do it right, prep work is key as well as not going too thick.

I will be probably using DuraCoat this coming year though since it can be used on such a wide range of materials.

[skife]

Some guns are powdercoated. Guns like Tippmanns cannot be annoed, I believe it is because they are cast steel or something, so they are powder coated. Anno is just more durable IMO and it looks nicer. Paint does not stay on well, but there are many ways to have graphics done, such as laser engraving.


cast aluminium... pot metal!
its cheap.

[slade]

cast aluminium... pot metal!
its cheap.
im pretty sure its actually steel, not aluminum of any kind.

markers are ano'd mainly because the anodization process protects all surfaces, and keeps the metal from corroding or oxidizing. and it is not a coat, it is a process done on the metal, and dye can be added for color in the process. the result is it protects both the outside and the inside of the marker, and reduces wear on the internals. and it looks good. any other processes, powdercoat, duracoat, spraypaint, etc. just cover the external parts, and some (paint especially) can chip and just look bad.

[Jotsy]

hmmm the duracoat looks interesting. i might look into it.

now, i've been reading up alot on annodizing (tho everybody seems to want to be paid to reaveal how multicolored annos are done...) and i was wondering a few things.
1) does the part really have to be submerged in a vat of dye? what if the dye is just applied to the surface with a brush or an airbrush?
2) what happens if, after the acid bath, instead of using dye you use regular spray paints, and then the pores are sealed? will the oxide layer form over the paint? will the color not stick and just run off? will it just turn out a great big mess?

[WARPED1]

Anno doesn't "coat" the aluminum in a color, it "soaks" into the metal changing the metal to that color. Powdercoat uses electricity to coat the metal. Paint is just sprayed or brushed on.
Anno also will not chip off like paint or powder. Sure it can get scratched, but thats the metal itself getting scratched.
And for anno, parts do have to be submerged. It also uses an electrical charge to make it "stick".

[Army]

Tippmans are cast aluminum.

Yes they are, don't argue.

[WARPED1]

Tippmans are cast aluminum.

Yes they are, don't argue.
I knew that, or was that directed at someone else? I probably missed the post about the awesome Tippmann(my first semi was a 68 Special, before that, I had a SMG-60!)

[Ace12GA]

Have to agree with the Tippman's are cast aluminum remarks. They are.

[Jotsy]

It also uses an electrical charge to make it "stick".

oh ok, i didn't realize that. it seems the guides i was reading didn't mention it. i guess when they say they removed it from the acid bath, i assumed you had to remove the wires.

http://www.focuser.com/atm/anodize/anodize.html
http://24.237.160.4/files/Astronomy/ATM%20stuff/Anodizing.PDF

[magman007]

ok, annodization is a curing process to aluminum, baisically you dip it in the electro charged acid bath, and it creates a pourous hard oxidization layer, then pulled out of the bath, dyed(or not depending if you want a clear color or not) then the metal is boiled, which seals the color and the pores, creating a tough, metal covering, that prevents further oxidization and fatigue on the metal.

Finishes are all done before the marker touches the acid, whether polished or dust, is all dependant on prep work.

[wimag]

ok, annodization is a curing process to aluminum, baisically you dip it in the electro charged acid bath, and it creates a pourous hard oxidization layer, then pulled out of the bath, dyed(or not depending if you want a clear color or not) then the metal is boiled, which seals the color and the pores, creating a tough, metal covering, that prevents further oxidization and fatigue on the metal.

Finishes are all done before the marker touches the acid, whether polished or dust, is all dependant on prep work.


coming from a plating background that is the best way to sum it up.

[Jotsy]

ok, but can you confirm if the part needs to be connected to the electrodes during the dying (or sealing) process?

[magman007]

during the sealing process, no. not at all if you are interested in home annodization check out some tutorials online, it really isnt all that hard, i did my own e-mag, and it came out awesome, except for the gripframe, which threw us off, because it is a different grade of aluminum.

Also, i found that threading aluminum welding rod, without the white stuff on the out side, into any screwholes, was a great way to make full contact with the oart.

Also, when in the acid bath, you see air bubbles, shake them off by shaking the part lightly. this made a huge difference.

[slade]

during the sealing process, no. not at all if you are interested in home annodization check out some tutorials online, it really isnt all that hard, i did my own e-mag, and it came out awesome, except for the gripframe, which threw us off, because it is a different grade of aluminum.

Also, i found that threading aluminum welding rod, without the white stuff on the out side, into any screwholes, was a great way to make full contact with the oart.

Also, when in the acid bath, you see air bubbles, shake them off by shaking the part lightly. this made a huge difference.
i read up on ano a while ago, i was interested in it but i know its one of those things id try but itd be put on the back shelf and id never get around to learning to do it well.

did you do just a solid ano, or a fade/acid wash? do you have pictures?

[NinjaoftheNight79]

I saw someone say DuraCoat doesn't require baking. I dont know what you meant Duracoat doesn't need to be baked like powdercoat (some here are saying powder coat is get electronically). DuraCoat is baked on at high temperatures to harden it and make it durable.

As a question, someone said Anno actually changes the metal to that color. Does this mean that every bit of the metal (surface and deep inside) is changed color, of just the surface. What I am trying to figure out basically is if you scratch a annoed metal (without me actually doing it ;) ), will the color scratch, or will it always be (Insert Color). If it is surface, then I could see that after a while of being scratched up, you would eventually see metalic. If it is all the metal, even after a lot of scratching it would still look (Insert Color).

[slade]

I saw someone say DuraCoat doesn't require baking. I dont know what you meant Duracoat doesn't need to be baked like powdercoat (some here are saying powder coat is get electronically). DuraCoat is baked on at high temperatures to harden it and make it durable.

As a question, someone said Anno actually changes the metal to that color. Does this mean that every bit of the metal (surface and deep inside) is changed color, of just the surface. What I am trying to figure out basically is if you scratch a annoed metal (without me actually doing it ;) ), will the color scratch, or will it always be (Insert Color). If it is surface, then I could see that after a while of being scratched up, you would eventually see metalic. If it is all the metal, even after a lot of scratching it would still look (Insert Color).
its just the surface with type 2 (most ano). with type 3 it will be a bit deeper.

[shartley]

I saw someone say DuraCoat doesn't require baking. I dont know what you meant Duracoat doesn't need to be baked like powdercoat (some here are saying powder coat is get electronically). DuraCoat is baked on at high temperatures to harden it and make it durable.

Yeah, I said it does not need to be baked. And it does not.

Powder Coating is applied using electrostatic methods and then baked on.

DuraCoat is applied using standard airbrush methods and does NOT need to be baked. DuraBake on the other hand does need to be baked.

From the DuraCoat site itself in the FAQ area:


As an average gun owner, can I properly apply DuraCoat products without training?

Absolutely! DuraCoat is extremely easy to apply. Anyone can do it. DuraCoat was designed for the average gun owner. Preheating, baking and blasting are not required. Expensive, space consuming equipment is not needed. Simply clean and degrease the surface prior to application. If you don't have access to an airbrush, HVLP spray gun or conventional spray gun, our EZ Airbrush (#1SAB) is all the equipment needed and sells for less than $25.00.

I don’t know where you got your information but that is from the horse’s mouth. For anyone who wants to know more about this product they can visit their site at:
http://www.lauerweaponry.com/index.cfm .

[Jotsy]

ok, i think i've got an idea of how fades are done, but does anybody know how splash anno are done? i've read that one method to get two color annos is to use rubber cement to put down a design. Is that right? doesn't really sound feasible considering how intricate some of the spalsh annos are. or is this some kind of trade secret that i'm not supposed to post on the internet?

[slade]

ok, i think i've got an idea of how fades are done, but does anybody know how splash anno are done? i've read that one method to get two color annos is to use rubber cement to put down a design. Is that right? doesn't really sound feasible considering how intricate some of the spalsh annos are. or is this some kind of trade secret that i'm not supposed to post on the internet?
yeah, rubber cement is what ive heard. it seems the most plausible. ive also heard masking off the metal, theoretically if you can use rubber cement, you could coat the piece with a rubber cement layer with parts cut out. there could be other methods used.

[slade]

someone here better claim credit for this: http://forum.caswellplating.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=433&cat=503

[Cow hunter]

why is that?

[slade]

why is that?
because its an awesome ano and a mag? chances are the person who did it is here. and i want to know how the valve held up because they arent supposed to be re-ano'd (tolerance issues).

[magman007]

splash anno. from what i can tell, its done with rubber cement or hot glue. In lacrosse, if you wanted to do a splash head while custom dying, you spewed hot glue on the head, dyed the darkest color, picked off some of the glue, dyed the next darkest color, etc. if you strew rubber cement(because it isnt hot and wont seal the metal) on the piece, and decided to do 2 colors, dye the darkest color, peal off the glue, and dye the next color. darkest first, always.

[slade]

splash anno. from what i can tell, its done with rubber cement or hot glue. In lacrosse, if you wanted to do a splash head while custom dying, you spewed hot glue on the head, dyed the darkest color, picked off some of the glue, dyed the next darkest color, etc. if you strew rubber cement(because it isnt hot and wont seal the metal) on the piece, and decided to do 2 colors, dye the darkest color, peal off the glue, and dye the next color. darkest first, always.
what i dont understand is how reverse splash fades are done... unless an area is masked off, then everything else is masked off, but that seems too complex.