For those that care about tournament news...

[WARPED1]

If you don't care, then don't post. And no flaming please.
http://shockerowners.com/showthread.php?p=191303&posted=1#post191303
Naughty Dogs get even better! They too have signed with Smart Parts.
Let's see:
Philadelphia Americans
Detroit Strange
Miami Raiders(Docs Raiders is now Miami Raiders)
Dynasty
Russian Legion
Naughty Dogs
Am I forgetting anyone?

[68magOwner]

I think youve got em all, Geeze SP sure is shelling out the money for 06. Then again, probably made a mint selling ions, so, theyve got it. Still dosent make me like SP products any more than i did previously though.

[WARPED1]

What I don't understand, is people on forums(not you 68, you're not complaining:)), says thier products suck, even if they've never used anything SP. They can't be that bad if so many teams use them. I know they get paid to use them, but having seen most of these teams playing in the off season(well, not RL or ND) they use these markers even when they don't have to!

[Lohman446]

Wow.. I guess they do, very nearly, have a monopoly on winning :D

[Hexis]

That's not everyone's complaint about Smart Parts. I simply don't agree with their business practices. I personally will not support them, regardless of the perceived quality of their products.

[bunny5]

Didn't they sign a big name scenario team also?

[Troen]

i dislike smart parts, lets get that out of the way.
But what they're doing is ruining the tournaments. . at the world cup smart parts teams were switching around the rosters, i dont believe they actually used the new players, but it kinda takes away any competative edge when your playing against phili americans and you read the top 3 players from dynasty are on the rosters. sure its cool that there will probably be more ion shells/kits for the teams ;), and the players are getting more money. what i dont like is the fact russian legion are smart parts now, before i like the fact they were on different team then dynasty. alot of their fans loved/obsessed over the next time the 2 teams will play. eh, im probably ranting right now, i think im ganna start supporting infamous or trauma.

[68magOwner]

What I don't understand, is people on forums(not you 68, you're not complaining:)), says thier products suck, even if they've never used anything SP.

I never had any problems with my shoebox shocker, or impulse, actually, liked both alot back in the day, but, the newer shockers (which, i concider to be the biggest representation of SP markers in tournament paintball today) i have never been impressed with, Ive owned 2, neither of which performed great for me, i kept them maintained properly, so, there wasnt a huge breaking down issue (although, ive seen that for some players) but, just in general, the quality of the markers seemed a bit second-rate (not a fan of my marker being made from recycled aluminum that cant even hold ano). They just dont suit my taste, so, not a big fan.

But, yes, a absolutley know where your comming from saying that people diss their products without even trying them, because, that happens alot.

Im just hoping that Trauma ends up winning cup again next year so i can laugh about SP picking up all these teams and still not winning.

[WingMan13]

Wow, just wow. They do claim to have a patent on winning.

[WARPED1]

That's not everyone's complaint about Smart Parts. I simply don't agree with their business practices. I personally will not support them, regardless of the perceived quality of their products.
I totally understand that. But I use and love thier products. :)

[paint magnet]

I never liked Smart Parts all that much even before the lawsuit...all they ever did was rip off of (or buying the rights to) someone else's design, or hype up a crappy product.

Cases in point:

The "Magic Box" mod

The "Boss" Nelson-based clone

The Shoebox shocker (bought from PVI)

The 03 Shocker, essentially a Matrix

...and many more.

Just because pro players shoot their guns does not mean that they make quality products, it simply means they were paid more money by Smart Parts do do so.

[Muzikman]

What I don't understand, is people on forums(not you 68, you're not complaining:)), says thier products suck, even if they've never used anything SP. They can't be that bad if so many teams use them. I know they get paid to use them, but having seen most of these teams playing in the off season(well, not RL or ND) they use these markers even when they don't have to!

I watched three teams back in 98 I think it was who were sponsored by SP hand each of their shockers to a SP tech that was sitting in the staging area after each game because of problems. That and the fact that every time (except the time I dropped $900) I went to SP, the people were rude as hell.

Back years ago (mid 90's) I played rec ball with a lot of the AA II's (the All American am team). They were all really cool guys. Wonder what ever happened to them. :)

My dislike for SP goes back a long way. And the reason I think their stuff sucks is becuase for so long it had. Besides, everyone knows that crap tastes bad, do you actually have to taste it to know?

[Muzikman]

The Shoebox shocker (bought from PVI)




Bought?

[Hexis]

I totally understand that. But I use and love thier products. :)

Nothing wrong with that. To each their own.

[Muzikman]

I know they get paid to use them, but having seen most of these teams playing in the off season(well, not RL or ND) they use these markers even when they don't have to!


You also have to remember. Most goo players like to play with one o two guns that they will be playing with for the season. There are some people out there that want to get to know their gun and how it shoots. With ramping though, it doesn't make much difference these days.

[Baby Huey]

I have two shockers ('03 vision, Ton Ton), around 1 1/2 playing 3-4 times a month and one problem (I broke). Sp fixed and had back to me really fast. And that was even more impressive since most of the techs were at a Chicago event.

RPG Paradigm from Rogue, about 9 months with one problem (I broke, maybe I should stop messing with my guns :D ). Rogue fixed fast and had back to me in time for a scenerio that was coming up quick.

I dont think the pro thing sways any adult from buying one gun to another. Just kids. Like when we were kids looking up to our favorite athletes and using the same gear (nike Shark cletes, neumann football gloves, etc).

Love my Shockers and I love my mag. You must have the right tool for the job. Have a great day and God Bless.

[pachytriton]

There are way way too many private label shockers already, lol. But I still wanna see an rl shocker.

[Cow hunter]

jeez, SP is turning into a SUPER COMPANY, but if they buy all the pro teams, whos gonna compete against them?

i predict that like all great empires they will fall, maybe when they dont get enough to pay all their teams, or when china's economy crashes......

[Banshee23]

Wow, in the last three years they've gone from cockers to timmies to freestyles to shockers. Just make up your minds & pick a damn gun already...

[magman007]

the real wonder is if national is suffering so much that they cannot pay the teams as much as they really want to, therefore sp, who is not suffering, is scooping em up.

[SCpoloRicker]

I'm also surprised that National is dropping in status. Maybe they overextended?

Also, what about the idea that having multiple manufacturers participating in a league is an important thing? Will one series be dominated by SP, one by National, one by K2, etc? Will the fans follow is there aren't manu' rivalries?

[ThePixelGuru]

I'm also surprised that National is dropping in status. Maybe they overextended?

Also, what about the idea that having multiple manufacturers participating in a league is an important thing? Will one series be dominated by SP, one by National, one by K2, etc? Will the fans follow is there aren't manu' rivalries?
If companies don't have their teams compete, there isn't much point to sponsoring teams. If SP proves that team X with Shockers can beat team Y with Shockers, it doesn't prove to anyone that the Shocker is a good marker. But if Dye gives team Z DM6s and they kick the crap out of team X, that influences what people buy, and therefore it's a good investment for them.

[warbeak2099]

I personally don't like SP because of a couple reasons.

1. Partly because of their business practices. Now, I don't claim to know everything that went on, but from reading through the court cases (I'm a law junky), the Gardner bros really seem like a couple of idiots. The way they speak and act makes them seem like people you'd like to kill if it weren't illegal. They come off as pompous, arrogant, and downright ignorant.

2. There always seems to be a better deal on the market. Shockers are fine markers, but not for $800. There are several alternatives that are the same price or less and are better. Ex. Proto Matrix or Defiant II. I'm sure with SP's size and power, they aren't paying that much money to crank those things out. It's just common sense business-wise. Yet, they are going past just trying to make a buck and are really just ripping people off. That goes for most of their other products as well. There are just as good barrel kits out there as the Freak and they cost substantially less than ~$200. The Ion is an exception. It is quite a nice marker for what you pay. I've been looking at college paintball as I am doing my college searches and many are SP sponsored. If I played on one, I would absolutely pick the Ion over their other markers just to save money. I would never buy a Shocker though. The Nerve has also come down in price, so that's good too. But the majority of people are paying $800 for a gun that isn't worth it. That's beyond uncool, it's unethical.

3. I have considered buying SP products in the past. Whenever I've called them up, they were always rude, snotty, and nasty. I don't appreciate being treated that way as a customer, nor would I endorse a company who treats me that way.

So, those are my reasons for disliking SP. I'm not just being a mindless SP basher / AGD worshipper. In fact, most of the people that I encounter who support SP come off as ignorant and "groupy-ish". Most, not all. Warped1 is one of the few who doesn't make arguments totally devoid of facts. Most others that I speak to are mental weaklings who are easily swayed by advertisements and shiny things.

[Baby Huey]

I'm not just being a mindless SP basher / AGD worshipper. In fact, most of the people that I encounter who support SP come off as ignorant and "groupy-ish". Most, not all. Warped1 is one of the few who doesn't make arguments totally devoid of facts. Most others that I speak to are mental weaklings who are easily swayed by advertisements and shiny things.


Its too bad that you are surrounded by those types of people. You might want make better decisions about who you spend time with.

That was a very well thought out post until the end.

[Teamslayer76]

hooooorrrrayyyy for Smart Parts! Another winning team under the SP belt!
I'm really looking forward to the upcoming season. :)

[skife]

Wow.. I guess they do, very nearly, have a monopoly on winning :D


they've got a patent on winning, it was in one of their past adds.

[SCpoloRicker]

If companies don't have their teams compete, there isn't much point to sponsoring teams. If SP proves that team X with Shockers can beat team Y with Shockers, it doesn't prove to anyone that the Shocker is a good marker. But if Dye gives team Z DM6s and they kick the crap out of team X, that influences what people buy, and therefore it's a good investment for them.

I think we both just said the same thing. :)

[WARPED1]

hooooorrrrayyyy for Smart Parts! Another winning team under the SP belt!
I'm really looking forward to the upcoming season. :)
Amen brutha man! :clap: :clap: :dance: :dance:

[WenULiVeUdiE]

I wonder if this will come back and bite them next year. Can they sustain such a large stable of such great teams? Then again, they will get so much income from team markers and people buying SP stuff because so many teams use them. We'll see how this one pans out...

Edit- By the way, Smart Parts is sponsorring a team in Scotland I believe. Not a major team, but still one more for the list.

[minimag03]

I wouldn't like if if AGD signed all these teams. It just makes the whole tournament scene alittle more boring thatit has already become.

The only thing I see positive coming out of this is new Shockers. Maybe some of the teams like RL or ND will make both external and internal changes that improve the performence and durability of the Shocker.

[Mind'sEye]

Nice pick up by SP. I guess they figure Rocky will do anything to win. ;)

[warbeak2099]

Its too bad that you are surrounded by those types of people. You might want make better decisions about who you spend time with.

That was a very well thought out post until the end.

I am so sorry that my personal experience contradicts with your opinion. I'll try not to make statements based on observations or facts in the future. Hold on, maybe we could all go back to before Galileo, Newton, and Brahe and produce "theories" based solely on conjecture and speculation.

My post did not lose its well thought-out value. I stayed objective through the whole thing. I am not in any way trying to bash SP supporters. Like I said, I have encountered those who are not ignorant such as Warped1. I am simply stating what I have observed. Progress is made when everyone pools their observations and uses the collective data. I did not swerve from that ideal, please do not attempt to deny my right to express my own observations.

[nastymag]

i guess if ND got a better deal then good for them.

i personally don't like SP products to much, and i have owned many of their products.


I loved my old V-sport shoebox killa !

i pretty much hated my impulse.

hated my Maxflo

Hated my Freak.

what keeps me from buying any of the PL guns is how fast the anno wears off on many of them. my buddies Nerve is just a year old, with moderate use, but its already pink in some sections.

[WARPED1]

I give SP a minimum of at least 5 solid years.

[tyrion2323]

What I don't understand, is people on forums(not you 68, you're not complaining:)), says thier products suck, even if they've never used anything SP. They can't be that bad if so many teams use them. I know they get paid to use them, but having seen most of these teams playing in the off season(well, not RL or ND) they use these markers even when they don't have to!

- low quality components
- low quality control standards
- infamously bad customer support

There's a difference between teams who are given gun after gun to use when theirs break down and someone who can only afford one gun.

[AGD]

I thing what we are seeing here is not so much the continuing expansion of SP but the retraction of other big sponsors. Its no secret that National is in trouble so the first expense to go will be sponsorships. I think SP is playing on the fact they were a big winner with ION sales last year and are picking up the pieces cheap.

I bet on more sponsorships by SP coming soon.

AGD

[WARPED1]

- low quality components
- low quality control standards
- infamously bad customer support

There's a difference between teams who are given gun after gun to use when theirs break down and someone who can only afford one gun.
Never had any of these problems. Have owned 3 pre 03 Shockers, 3 03 Shockers, 2 Impulses, and an Ion. It seems to me, with any gun, that the only people that have problems with thier guns are the ones that instantly when they get it, they start replacing vital parts. Like valves and springs or bolts. Or even regulators on some guns.
Every time I call SP for support, I get straight through to a tech. Thier service at big events, like World Cup, leaves alot to be desired. I like thier customer support, but they certainly aren't AGD(at least the way they used to be).

[Teamslayer76]

Edit- By the way, Smart Parts is sponsorring a team in Scotland I believe. Not a major team, but still one more for the list.

I also heard this. It's mainly a secenario team...SP!

As for the products...

Quality Controll has always been a problem with SP.
The actual quality of the good products...is well outstanding. I love my Nerver to death...but guns get old...

About customer service. It isnt too great but its not bad. The only problem I had was with the part for my Nerve the new LPR, my marker was to have it put on before shipment but it didn't happen. So I tried to obtain the part but they said no my gun already had one...well long story short. I sent a couple emails and pictures they sent the part priority mail and even offred to install it for free. But I did it and its all fine!

thx,
Teamslayer :)

[WARPED1]

I also heard this. It's mainly a secenario team...SP!
SP8! I can see that.

[Baby Huey]

I did not swerve from that ideal, please do not attempt to deny my right to express my own observations.


I made no attempt to deny your right to express your opinion, I was simply stating mine. Have a great day and God Bless.

[Lohman446]

I compare the new Shocker to the old V12 Jaguars.

Sleek, sexxy, and can perform with anything out there - as long as they are working right, and if you intend for them to be working right you better be planning on fixing it... often

Im thinking about getting another one...

[WARPED1]

I compare the new Shocker to the old V12 Jaguars.

Sleek, sexxy, and can perform with anything out there - as long as they are working right, and if you intend for them to be working right you better be planning on fixing it... often

Im thinking about getting another one...
I used to just relube with Dow 33 after every day of play I was done. And wiping any paint that might be on it of course.

[luke]

I found this humorous>



“It's a real pleasure to have so many top professional teams choosing Smart Parts for their guns, barrels and air systems--

--Adam Gardner, President, Smart Parts, Inc.

I think he meant to say "It was a real pleasure to "buy" top professional teams.... :rolleyes:

[WARPED1]

I found this humorous>




I think he meant to say "It was a real pleasure to "buy" top professional teams.... :rolleyes:
ANY sponsor buys teams. Empire bought thier teams, so what's your point?

[WenULiVeUdiE]

I think he meant to say "It was a real pleasure to "buy" top professional teams.... :rolleyes:

Well, I'm sure some of the teams went to Smart Parts first. They saw that they were offering more money and thought it would be a good decision.

But, I am just playing devil's advocate...sort of.

[Lohman446]

I found this humorous>




I think he meant to say "It was a real pleasure to "buy" top professional teams.... :rolleyes:

So, those teams had no choice in it? They were simply there with a price tag on them and did not have the option of saying no, or going to someone offering less.

Fact of the matter is, SP put an offer on the table, it was the team that accepted it and chose SP.

[WARPED1]

So, those teams had no choice in it? They were simply there with a price tag on them and did not have the option of saying no, or going to someone offering less.

Fact of the matter is, SP put an offer on the table, it was the team that accepted it and chose SP.
Amen to that! Well said. :clap: :dance:

[Baby Huey]

I used to just relube with Dow 33 after every day of play I was done. And wiping any paint that might be on it of course.


yep :clap:

[magman007]

I thing what we are seeing here is not so much the continuing expansion of SP but the retraction of other big sponsors. Its no secret that National is in trouble so the first expense to go will be sponsorships. I think SP is playing on the fact they were a big winner with ION sales last year and are picking up the pieces cheap.

I bet on more sponsorships by SP coming soon.

AGD


tom hit it right on the nose.


Also, sp doesnt use crappy aluminum, its just a different type of aluminum that is much easier to machine, less gumming, less wear and tear on the machines etc. and when you are producing as much as sp does, it matters.

I am in no way a fan of sp, and you all know this. You know i stand by dye as my marker mfg.

[WARPED1]

tom hit it right on the nose.


Also, sp doesnt use crappy aluminum, its just a different type of aluminum that is much easier to machine, less gumming, less wear and tear on the machines etc. and when you are producing as much as sp does, it matters.

I am in no way a fan of sp, and you all know this. You know i stand by dye as my marker mfg.
I like DYE, I used to hate them. They're still overpriced, but have nice stuff.

[luke]

ANY sponsor buys teams.

Did I state anything to the contrary?
No.


Empire bought thier teams,

Yea, what does that have to do with my comment? Nothing. Gardner made the statement, not Empire. So what’s your point?



so what's your point?

My point is the implication of his comment. Do you REALLY think they are choosing the product or the ride? If you do, then Gardner is a wise salesman. :rofl:

[luke]

Well, I'm sure some of the teams went to Smart Parts first. They saw that they were offering more money and thought it would be a good decision.

But, I am just playing devil's advocate...sort of.


So, are you saying they are choosing a product or a "ride"?

[Lohman446]

So, are you saying they are choosing a product or a "ride"?

They are choosing the offer that best suits them. What value they place on what portions of that offer (money, equipment used, length of contract, exclusivity, duties, royalties, etc) none of us know. Regardless SP made them an offer that they felt best suited them. They chose that offer, I doubt it was the only offer on the table.

[luke]

So, those teams had no choice in it? They were simply there with a price tag on them and did not have the option of saying no, or going to someone offering less.


Gardners statement is 100% propaganda, if you can’t see it for what it’s worth the man is a genius.

[Lohman446]

Gardners statement is 100% propaganda, if you can’t see it for what it’s worth the man is a genius.

People who beleive that there is not a choice in modern America in signing a contract to play a sport for money are idiots :) .

Do I doubt for a moment that the SP offer involved a large amount of money that was not matched by anyone? Not a chance, I understand that.

Do I beleive that RL still made the choice? Of course I do...

[WenULiVeUdiE]

So, are you saying they are choosing a product or a "ride"?

Much more so a ride than the product. Sure, you may give up shooting what you like, but that is a small price to pay to get $50,000 a year. However, that is not to say that they do not like the products either. I'm sure quite a few of the newly sponsored teams/players like their Shockers.

[paint magnet]

tom hit it right on the nose.


Also, sp doesnt use crappy aluminum, its just a different type of aluminum that is much easier to machine, less gumming, less wear and tear on the machines etc. and when you are producing as much as sp does, it matters.

I am in no way a fan of sp, and you all know this. You know i stand by dye as my marker mfg.

Did you ever see the photo of the bent Shocker grip frame?

[Baby Huey]

Did you ever see the photo of the bent Shocker grip frame?

ya, I have seen the picture of that one. If you come across a second example you let me know.

[peewee]

I think that ND will still maintain some interest in the Freestyle. Most of them including Rocky have made a great impact with aftermarkets upgrades etc & they truly seem to like the Freestyle. Sp has to invest that money from the Ion somewhere. Its kind of sad because you wont be able to see super marker A showcased against super marker B etc.

[luke]

People who beleive that there is not a choice in modern America in signing a contract to play a sport for money are idiots :) .

Do I doubt for a moment that the SP offer involved a large amount of money that was not matched by anyone? Not a chance, I understand that.

Do I beleive that RL still made the choice? Of course I do...

LOL!

You’re kidding right; you really believe that BS.? I'm a little disappointed in you; I thought you were sharper than that.

Ask any 12 year old what he meant, my money says the kid will get it right. :D

I bet for the right amount of money I could get you to agree with me. :)

[Lohman446]

LOL!

You’re kidding right; you really believe that BS.? I'm a little disappointed in you; I thought you were sharper than that.

Ask any 12 year old what he meant, my money says the kid will get it right. :D

I bet for the right amount of money I could get you to agree with me. :)

I have no doubt it was in there financial best interest to take the SP offer.

That being said I have equally no doubt that they had the right to fully turn it down.

Thats not that hard to grasp.

[paint magnet]

ya, I have seen the picture of that one. If you come across a second example you let me know.

All it takes is one...they're all made out of the same metal.

[luke]

I have no doubt it was in there financial best interest to take the SP offer.

That being said I have equally no doubt that they had the right to fully turn it down.

Thats not that hard to grasp.


This is an argument of semantics which is a complete waste of time. The idea behind sponsorship is simply for selling products, I doubt we disagree on that. (Or perhaps we will, it’s hard to say at this point) Gardner made a simple statement which I think was a play on words for the kiddies. I don’t really have a problem with it, I simply find it humorous.

I think the real problem is a few of you here are trigger happy to come to SP’s defense. For the record, I think they have every right to enforce ownership of a legitimate patent, even though I don’t think it’s in the best interest of the sport as a whole. I think it will ultimately smother out smaller companies and slow down growth as we have already seen.

But like I said, they have every right to do it. Ultimately it holds absolutely bearing in my world, I couldn’t care less if every kid on the field is shooting a ramping SP marker and I’m the only on the field with a Mag as it’s been for years. I still play tournament PB with my mech. Mag against the so called “super electro’s”. I still take the field with only a hopper of paint as I have for over 10 years and yes my favorite game is speedball. So don’t mistake what I find humorous as a dig on SP, because it’s not...

:)

[Mind'sEye]

SP is making a hard push to dominate the industry by any means at it's disposal. This must be costing the company some big money. If they fail or if there is a continued slow down in the industry their business plan might just self-implode.......

[mastershake44]

well, i think the expansion will cause Nationals downfall, and National sells most companies products. I think if SP continues this expansion, all if not most gear in the future, will be made by SP. lets hope Dye, K2, and WDP can hold on...it will be a bumpy ride..ill tell ya that

[warbeak2099]

well, i think the expansion will cause Nationals downfall, and National sells most companies products. I think if SP continues this expansion, all if not most gear in the future, will be made by SP. lets hope Dye, K2, and WDP can hold on...it will be a bumpy ride..ill tell ya that

Palmers will always be around :headbang:

Say, they should sponsor a tourny team shooting E-Blazers. E2'd Blazers with Zero B boards would be great in PSP/NXL tournies. I don't think anyone wouldn't like to see an E-Blazer toting Palmers team.

[Lohman446]

SP is making a hard push to dominate the industry by any means at it's disposal. This must be costing the company some big money. If they fail or if there is a continued slow down in the industry their business plan might just self-implode.......

I think there depending on the continued industry slow down and contraction to take care of some of there main competitors actually, or make them purchaseable at a loss from the conglomerates that are not seeing the return they want from them.

[paint magnet]

For the record, I think they have every right to enforce ownership of a legitimate patent, even though I don’t think it’s in the best interest of the sport as a whole.

Yes, they do have the right to enforce a legitimate patent.

[Mind'sEye]

I think there depending on the continued industry slow down and contraction to take care of some of there main competitors actually, or make them purchaseable at a loss from the conglomerates that are not seeing the return they want from them.

Could be, but with a glut of used Ions on the market that spectrum might not do so well for SP. Entry level Ion sales don't necessarily translate into a Shocker sale when the time comes to upgrade. There's a tendency to do more research in magazine reviews, opinions at the shop and field, etc. I'm not so sure that dominate pro tournament results will have the effect that Smart Parts is banking on. Did Camaros dominate the performance car market when the IROC was a field of the same boring Chevy products driving around the circuit? The kids in my area talk a lot more about DM's, Egos, Angels and Cockers as "dream markers". The SP strategy is calculated and aggressive. Time will tell how powerful it really is.