Dan Tiljack Cheats with WALK-ONS?

[gmp211]

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?p=19051250#post19051250

Well, read it. I would recomend watching the video also.

Just amazes me..

[FSU_Paintball]

1. The guy behind the net who alerted Tiljack is an assclown
2. Tyger.... how about you overreact a bit more? :rolleyes:

[mag88888]

Yeah seriously what do you expect, Tod just let himslef get bunkered? The guy behind the net shouldnt had said anything. And whats tyger's problem? Cant he just chill out a bit? I love his vids about balling and tsuff but he made himslef look like a real *** in that vid. Made me think of my 8th grade detention guy. And whats wrong with a pro playing walk on? Are they not allowed to?

[ramennoodles]

I don't think he overreacted. I don't know how your fields work, I honestly don't, but at mine there is probably fifteen minutes of down time between games if not more, in addition to that are the high prices I pay to play and the fact that I can only play once a week. So, with all of that combined, when I get on the field to play, I want a good clean game. If I screw things up and get out off the break, man that sucks, and I understand. But I don't want to get out prematurely, or get lit up because some jerk is cheating. I think the point tyger is trying to make is that no one should be breaking the rules, least of all pro players. They should be setting examples, especially if they are playing at walk-on levels, there is no need. He isn't saying that pro players shouldn't play walk-on.

On the other hand, I agree that that get behind the net is an *** clown.

-Isaac.


EDIT: I really liked the part where the kid was shouting for a pod, and tyger whips out a ten round tube.

[Halliday]

Cheating in paintball? Say it isn't so.

[NeoApollo]

I think some of the problems lie in the fact Dan didn't act like a pro player should. Professional players represent the sport they play. Dan should have told the dead player to be quiet, and ended the conflict between Tyger and the dead player.

Also, Dan should have acknowledged that he played professionally. It's not a crime to play with walk-ons, but it's bad to act like you're just a John Doe when you're good enough to get paid to play.

Getting mad about the battleswab instead of a barrel bag was just Tyger stressing the small stuff. When people get mad at each other online, you see them attack each other's spelling and grammar. It's just a way to get a few easy shots in while knowing relatively little about the person you're attacking.

All in all, I think Dan should have acted more professional, and Tyger shouldn't have gotten so mad. Yelling at the dead player just made him get defensive, and act like he didn't care. If he had calmly told the dead player he wasn't allowed to coach from the dead box, I'm sure he would have apologized and stopped. The quote goes something like, "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar."

[Lohman446]

In Dan's defense - doesn't Dynasty play X-ball format, which allows coaching from the sidelines and the teams "coach". Reacting to coaching as if on the field may be second nature. One cannot blame him for doing it. If there was a rule on the field about side line coaching, then obviously the dead player should have been quiet. But that is not Dan's fault, nor was he at fault for acting on that information, as he likely practices doing from time to time.

[wanna-b-ballin']

so how did tyger get the guys name?

or did he just recognize who it was.

[BigEvil]

I have a real problem when someone with a hidden camera has to do the job of the refs and field owner.


BTW, do they EVER wipe down the bunkers at that place? They looked like a drop cloth from a porno shoot.

[elbobo_the_pimp]

i diddnt know you could cheat in paintball. this is apualing :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :sarcasium:

[Lohman446]

Wait a minute, so this pro player that was "playing hardball" against the walk ons was playing a rather laid back game staying in the back. And when he became aware of someone trying to bunker him he went all out. Now I am far from a pro player, but I do play a lot of mixed groups. If you are new player at walk on, you get cut slack, I am not going to push your side of the field, I am not going to bunker you, and I am going to offer you surrender options if I get close. That being said, you play hard, come into my bunker, regardless of your level of skill or equipment I am going to make every effort to "school" you for it. If you get in my face over someone elses actions about it, I am going to get right back in yours. I had an argument once about "coaching" on field, where I did receive some justified coaching. We then got over it and get along just fine. To have someone walk around after me, and feel the need to call me on anything I might do wrong, because I have annoyed them, isn't going to fly. I personally think that Danny handled the situation as well as he could have, considering the aggressiveness of Tyger.

I get the feeling that Tyger went out looking for problems... and he found a dishonest player (ok, spectator).. Anyone surprised? Anyone else notice Tyger advancing on a player being checked by the ref?

[gmp211]

Tyger did that so he could get more footage. And maybe get either to swing :p

He just wanted good feedback to what happened.

[p8ntball72]

I applaud Tygers efforts and hope he does more hidden camera videos.

on the "coaching" incident,
an honorable player would have been just as mad as tyger.. told the coach to STFU and gave tyger a "do over".

Barrel bag... If it is the field policy for "barrel bags" ONLY, then the offending player should not have even been on the field. I'm sure that the only reason he was allowed was because he's on dynasty.

Ref smoking on the field... wow this field is a classy place.

Fields owners and refs that don't enforce posted rules are the major contributor of the decay of recreational paintball.

[GT]

I personally think that Danny handled the situation as well as he could have, considering the aggressiveness of Tyger.

I get the feeling that Tyger went out looking for problems... and he found a dishonest player (ok, spectator).. Anyone surprised? Anyone else notice Tyger advancing on a player being checked by the ref?

You might be wrong. Why would a pro player lie about his playing status? Simple, he knows he did something wrong and was trying to avoid confrentation about his lack of ethical fortatude. All he had to do is own up to it, stand up and be a man.

There are two dishonest guys, the player and the dead man.

In all honesty I think Tyger scared the hell out of him. Who takes a pump and bunkers a pro? :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:

[gmp211]

Tyger owns. Period.

As far as fault- There a BIT equal, but Tyger wanted the footage, you would too!

And if I were a field, I would hire Tyger to watch the refs and such.

[Lohman446]

You might be wrong. Why would a pro player lie about his playing status? Simple, he knows he did something wrong and was trying to avoid confrentation about his lack of ethical fortatude. All he had to do is own up to it, stand up and be a man.

There are two dishonest guys, the player and the dead man.

In all honesty I think Tyger scared the hell out of him. Who takes a pump and bunkers a pro? :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:

If I was a pro trying to play walk on... well I would likely not admit it, though I may say I played some tournaments. The man wants to play, not be bombarded by "fans" of the team that could not know he was on it unless he stated it. Perhaps saying no he did not was a defense.

I don't know... I don't think any of the three people there are clean in this deal.

[punkncat]

Tygers posting of this video was total crap.

When was the last time you played walk on and didn't have people yelling from off field? And when it did when did it become the self righteous mission of the player to point out the rules? Thats the Refs job.

Tyger should have brought it up to the ref...if at all. Its a walk on. Next game was in a minute. What was he playing for that was so important to be an asshat from that point afterward?

I am unsure what axe Tyger has to grind with the guy, but I see nothing more than sour grapes for having the hammer dropped on him. Even if buddy off field hadn't coached there was a good probablility that he would have been eliminated.

I see no reason why "Mr Dynasty" should have to reveal that he is a semi famous paintball player. I see no reason why he shouldn't be able to play an anonymus(sp?) game in the off season.

I say this video should be retracted , reedited, and rereleased w/o the bias. I agree with the above post that Tyger made himself look bad. His video, his perogative.

[Cow hunter]

most of these problems are solved where i play, becuase the nets are so think you cant see through them, also many refs dont enforce rules at all, i saw a ref freak out, like (edited for the family hour) for ramping, and accindently pointing iti at the ref for literally a split second, and he was using a full auto mag the next game, with a squeegee in the end of it

[Recon by Fire]

Who cares if a pro plays recball. But talking after you are dead or coaching from the sidelines is just gay, wether it is in Xball or not. Next will they allow shooting from the sidelines also aka Salm style?

Sorry, I cannot name one loser on Dynasty. They could show up to play and that's fine but don't expect no worship here. You play a GAME.

[gmp211]

Thats not me in the video, READ BEFORE YOU POST!!!!

It is a friend of mine. Yeah, no One is clean, yeah. But this does show you, Pro's aren't 'Teh Leet I pwn your Momzorz' Greatest.

[tyrion2323]

As little respect as I have left for most pro players, I think that a lot of this was just another one of Tyger's witch hunts. He ALWAYS brings controversy with him, no matter where he is. Self-righteousness is his trademark.

That being said, that dude on the sidelines is the ultimate kind of douchebag. GAD I hate those guys - they're just punks.

[The Action Figure]

First off Tyger is awesome, Second of all what kind of players have thier whole team sitting at back center and shooting off the break. I mean that field was huge someone could have run off the break

[gmp211]

Actaully, Tyger never told anyone(Except 2-3 people) that he had a camera on him. So, danny did that on his own.

[Lohman446]

Tyger went with a purpose, and got it. Look at the lead up of the video "everyone becomes honest when they know about the camera". I'm sorry, but look for problems long enough, your going to find them. Don't act surprised when you do.

[gmp211]

Man, I love this forum! No flaming! Unlike PBN :(

[BD_Paintball]

I have a real problem when someone with a hidden camera has to do the job of the refs and field owner.


BTW, do they EVER wipe down the bunkers at that place? They looked like a drop cloth from a porno shoot.
i know 2 refs that work there and they clean it every day when ppl are done playing, and since it was all pump im sure they did not clean it after a few games.

[slateman]

i know 2 refs that work there and they clean it every day when ppl are done playing, and since it was all pump im sure they did not clean it after a few games.

I'm not sure everyone was playing with a pump. Some guy asks for a pod

Yea thats weak. I don't care that the "pro" player was playing walkons. Anyone can play. I do think its weak that the guy helped him out. Completely jerk move

[GT]

Tyger went with a purpose, and got it.


Doesnt look like it was all that hard for him to "find it" whatever that means. I can remember a time, maybe 3-4 years ago, where you rarly even heard a story about someone cheating. I am sure it happened but it was dam rare at the rec level.

[GT]

I say this video should be retracted , reedited, and rereleased w/o the bias.


Ok so take out the intro, music, and the text commentary and you still have the same facts.

[wanna-b-ballin']

of all people to need to be told that they are going to be bunkered. jeez.

i could understand a noob accepting the help, but a pro?

[The Action Figure]

of all people to need to be told that they are going to be bunkered. jeez.

i could understand a noob accepting the help, but a pro?

but its Dynasty lol

edit: Im kidding Dynasty is a good team, just should have stuck with WDP

[cioeboy]

haha i play thats the field i play at and they do allow sideline coaching there

and he wasnt playing to hard against walkons 70% of walkons there play tournys (and 90% of players there bonus ball and use illegal ramping)


PS i know the ref that was smoking on the field and the whole place is dirty (the players have gotten used to it)

[Archangel Kid]

PS i know the ref that was smoking on the field and the whole place is dirty (the players have gotten used to it)

Wow, that really sad. I'm starting to get back into playing again after about a 2-3 year break, and I really hope I don't go to my local field and it's like this place.

[Baby Huey]

That video is funny.If I had the $$$ I would wear one when we play.

[Eatem Alive]

i think the title of this thread is ignorant. i doubt he knew the guy and if some random person on the sidelines told me i was about to get bunkered i sure as hell wouldn't ignore him. also, who is to say danny even heard the guy... he may just have happened to look over that side of the bunker...a pro isn't going to stay posted on one side.

[Skoad]

Well, i read the flames and just watched the video....

First off, yea that was really lame for a spectator to do something like that. I don't know if the guy was with Dan or not, but its hard not to react when someone says theres a guy coming right up on you. I really doubt myself or anyone else would just sit there like they didn't hear it.

Two, if I were 'pro' I would probably get sick of all the kids and people asking questions, sign this, blah blah...or whatever people do around 'pro' players. You either want the attention or you don't, obviously he didn't so he said he wasn't a pro player. I really doubt his objective was to sneak into a rec game just to blast some newbies.

Three, Tyger's barrel sock schpeal was a little over the top but I don't blame him. Everyone's had a time where someone got the better of them either honestly or they got screwed....if your pissed you'll start making critical (yet sometimes borderline silly) observations/arguements just to get every single piece of dirt on them. It's human nature.


Anytime I've ever played with someone who was a real hardcore tournament player, pro, think-they-are-pro, etc on just open play at a field for a saturday afternoon they seem think they are above all the other players. Sometimes they will cheat, sometimes they will just be arses. I've seen multiple times where a 'pro' player will get shot by some walk-on then the 'pro' player will start talking smack or start taking cheap shots at that guy, in once instance the pro player challenged the walk on to a 1 on 1...the walk on declined so the pro shot him in the leg.

I'm sure not all pro's or seasoned adult tournament players are like this, but it often is the case.

[Vex]

The quote goes something like, "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar."
Who the hell wants to catch flies?

Two comments:

1. Battle swab as barrel plug - Unacceptable. What could happen if that swab were blown out of the barrel and hit someone in the safe area? The stated rule, as verified three times by the ref, was that the ONLY barrel-blocking device to be used is a cover/condom/sock. It's a field rule, therefore, it should be adhered to. NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE...

2. Smoking ref - Unacceptable. Posted rule states "No Smoking" on the field. The last person to EVER break a field rule should be an employee for Christ's sake! Also, who in the hell wants to inhale someone's nasty smoke while they're running around and exerting themselves like a cheap hooker on $1 Wednesdays?

[Beemer]

Looks like they nuked the thread over there. Here is the link to the page with the vid. FPS 5 is the one you want.

http://webdog.specialopspaintball.com/video/fps/

Dam Tyger, when ya going back there? Let me know so I can go with ya :spit_take
And remember its a BBD[barrel blocking device]

I liked the "Now You Have My Attention" Part.

Looked to me like Tyger Had at least a fifty fifty chance till the dead guy talked. Allowed or not lets just call that part a wash.

But now you have my attention and I see you cant even respect MINE and Other Players SAFETY and follow the only KNOWN BBD RULE[plug or bag at some fields] NOT A SWAB.
Its not a Joke, never will be.

Get the crap outta here. Any player worth there salt knows this to be unacceptable and UNSAFE. Let alone a Pro out for some rec fun.

I dont know about the rest of ya but I have no less then four BBDs in my bag and if I dont have my bag I have five bucks or so to BUY one. The gun dont come out if I cant follow the safety RULES. Somebody Thank that guy for respecting our SAFETY. :wow:

Thats my rant.

Rock on Tyg

Peace Out

___________

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/AoIL.gif

[Recon by Fire]

in once instance the pro player challenged the walk on to a 1 on 1...the walk on declined so the pro shot him in the leg..


He wouldn't be too much of pro player with a broken leg :) As ridiculous as that story sounds I have no doubt it is true :(


Just a few things:


1. Those bunkers pretty disgusting, I wouldn't want to pay to play there.

2. I don't blame the player for shooting Tyger because somebody yelled to him. It is the sideline players fault completely for being such a wonderful player and great sportsman.

3. Sidline coaching is still heterosexually impaired.

[Tyger]

so how did tyger get the guys name?

or did he just recognize who it was.

I don't keep track of "who's who". I recognized the "World Cup" USA X-Ball jersey (VERY rare to see), and the Dynasty Shocker, and the "old pro" method of barrel swab in the barrel as a BBD. But I had no clue who he was. So I asked an employee, who happily told me that it was Danny T. Hardly "undercover" work, just asking quesitons.


I get the feeling that Tyger went out looking for problems... and he found a dishonest player (ok, spectator).. Anyone surprised? Anyone else notice Tyger advancing on a player being checked by the ref?

(posted later)

Look at the lead up of the video "everyone becomes honest when they know about the camera". I'm sorry, but look for problems long enough, your going to find them. Don't act surprised when you do.

I went out to play first, and film second. I go out filming hoping NOT to catch cheating, but I know that if I film long enough I will. That's the reality. Knowing I will, I also know that I'm not going to edit it out when I've got something that I feel is important for people to see.

I make my comments because people's reactions bother me. I get done playing and put the camera away, and I hear about something that happened away from the "camera guy". I heard about blatant wiping and overshooting going on at the first scenario game I filmed at, and people saying they wouldn't do that if the camera wasn't there. And honestly, that bothers me. People shouldn't be honest because someone is watching. They should be honest because it's the right thing to do.

So am I going out LOOKING for cheaters? No. I'm looking to go out and play. Then secondary I'm looking to get decent footage that I can share. Then I'm looking for all the other stuff that goes on around the actual game. Look at FPS 4 if you want to know what I'm talking about. But if I catch cheating, I'm not going to flinch. I'm not surprised to catch bad behavior, but I'm also not going to bury the footage. It's not my primary goal in this series of videos. My primary goal is to share paintball games from the unique postion that I'm in, and show people locations they wouldn't normally get to play.

To address Lohman specifically, I advanced on that player AFTER I hit his hopper AND he shot me after I hit him. Hit is hit, out is out, I was out of the game either way. I wanted to get the break on camera, yes. Am I instigating? No. I'm getting proof of what I've been saying for a long time. 'Yall flamed my shorts off when I told you the crud I deal with when I play. Now that I show you I'm still getting flamed for getting my proof.

As for the swab issue. For the record, "Chicagoland Paintball" is the new name for "Country Club Paintball". In 2004, CCP lost a lawsuit (http://www.mnlawoffice.com/new_develop.htm) when a child was blinded in one eye because of a barrel sock mishap. (In the link, look on the date May 21, 2004) From all I've been able to gather about the incident, the rental barrel sock failed when a player pulled the trigger in the staging area. So when I play at the location, I'm watching EVERYONE'S barrel.

I saw Danny's barrel swab in his gun BEFORE the game in the video, and AFTER the game as well. The footage I shot of his barrel was from BEFORE that game. It was going into the final reel as it was, the fact it was on a player's gun that should know better was incidental at the time. Plus the smoking referee was before that game as well. I was a few seconds too late to film the referee lifting his goggles to take a drag from his cigarette on the field of play.

For the record, after I asked the referee about it, Danny did put a barrel sock on his marker. A rental one.

-Tyger

[Lohman446]

I personally think there are two sides to this story. While I understand the point Tyger was trying to illustrate I think he did attempt just that. Walking towards a neutral player (or eliminated) serves either looking for a confrontation or attempting to eliminate him if he is not already out.

There was no purpose in chasing down Dan and asking if he played tournaments, other than looking for a confrontation. Personally one coudl argue there is a problem with any player that would take a problem they had on field off field directly with the player rather than to the ref / owner. That being said, I have often enough dealt with problems player to player. Its not the right way to do it.

Personally, the second side of this is simple. If my picture was used without my permission, and published to the web in an attempt to harm my reputation, I would seek a remedy that included at least its removal.

There are remarkably no clean hands in this pissing match we have seen, at least in my opinion. What a surprise... We have even seen the assertion (though even I question it) that sideline coaching is in fact allowed at this particular field.

[rifleman wi]

cool vid tyger :headbang:

[Tyger]

There was no purpose in chasing down Dan and asking if he played tournaments, other than looking for a confrontation.

Honestly, he was in front of me as I left the field. Hence, why I asked him. No "chasing down" of the man, just asking him a question that I basically already knew the answer to while walking off the field of play. Plus I watched him put a barrel swab down his barrel before leaving the field, which is something that tournament players have been doing for a long time.

If I was looking for confrontation, I would have asked him "So why are you beating up on renters?" or "Why aren't you practicing with Dynasty?" or "Why do you feel it necessaary to play against pick-up players when you're on one of the top X-Ball teams on the planet?" or "Is it really necessary to shoot your Shocker against players with Spyders?"

Or I could have easily hit him with any of a dozen questions that would have specifically inflamed him to get a violent verbal or physical reaction from him or his friends. Or I could have rolled camera on him and him alone for the remainder of the night trying to catch him doing anything. I didn't. The incident happened about mid session, and I saw no purpose in following him around like a lost puppy.

I did "meet" him one other time on the field, the last shot of the video. Between the humidity on the field and the gas fumes from the compressor, the camera fogged and rolled water down the lens. But I will say this. He was running up the side shooting into the middle and not looking at my position. I shot one ball from my corner at Dan. I hit him, the ball broke. He checked, raised his hand, walked off the field.

I let the video say the rest.

And you are right. There *are* two sides to the story. But unfortunately, the only reply from a Dynasty player has been to flame my sliding technique on 'Nation before the thread got deleted. If they hold a grudge, then it's a sad thing. I'm "just" a rec-baller with a video camera, or so I've been told. I would LOVE to hear Dan's side of things, but I don't think I will. And for what it's worth, it's not even worth his time.

If a video like mine causes the collapse of Dynasty, or the removal of a player from Dynasty, then something is VERY wrong with that team, or player, in the first place. One internet video does not a "linchpin" make.

-Tyger

[BigEvil]

Im torn on this one....

On one hand, you have someone running around with a hidden camera.

On the other, you have blatant cheating, safety violations, and some punk smoking.

I dont think that we should shoot the messenger... I also dont think we should disregard what was on the tape just because we all know that these things happen frequently.

Its crap and attitude like this that gives tha game a black eye. Every player has a responsability to enforce safety rules when playing. It is also everyones responsability to play fair and by the rules. If someone is doing something that can cause injury to another player then by all means people should speak up. If someone is cheating, then you should follow the chain of command
-go to the ref, if he does nothing then go to his supervisor.- then go to the field owner/manager if you still arent satisfied.

[shartley]

Okay, I read everyone’s comments here and went and saw the video. For me it was pretty much ado about nothing. Or should I say it was about a couple things but in my opinion blown out of proportion.

Barrel Bags
If you know it is against the rules to NOT use one (and instead use a swab), you don’t need to get conformation of the rules. And you certainly don’t need to get conformation of the rules and then NOT do anything about it. I personally would have approached the player and quietly explained the rules and asked for my protection as well as anyone else’s that they use an approved barrel blocking device. If they didn’t, I would THEN tell a staff member and have them take care of it.

”Pro’s” playing with rec players
I don’t see the problem with this. It was not like he was out with his TEAM and mopping the floor with “newbe’s”. Let him play and leave him alone about it. Only if he is swaggering around bragging about his “pro” status should it even be an issue.

Lying about being a tournament player.
That was just silly IMHO. All he was asked is if he played tournaments. I know LOTS of people who play tournaments, that does not make them “good” players or even a different “level” of player. It just means THEY PLAY IN TOURNAMENTS. LOL But I do admit that asking the question was pretty much a moot point if you KNOW the player does or who he/she is.

Calling player moves from the dead box or viewing area.
Some fields allow this, others don’t. I personally think it is poor form in a rec situation or where it is not a stated “can do” rule for a particular game format. The guy who called the position was indeed being a jerk… BUT I think the way he was confronted contributed to that a great deal. Often times people will act differently if they don’t feel they are being confronted in public in front of their friends and other players. They will then react to the perceived attempt to “scold them”. And then continuing it after the game was just poor form in my opinion. He admitted he did it, he was told it was wrong, he thumbed his nose (figuratively speaking), and that is that.

Using footage online
The only issue I have with this is the insinuation that Dan cheated. I didn’t see him cheat. Can anyone point out to me where he cheated? Sorry, listening to someone who without prompting shouted out another player’s position from the dead box is not cheating. In fact, aside from the barrel swab issue I don’t think Dan did ANYTHING wrong (aside from maybe lying about playing in tournaments… but that is a silly thing, not something that I put a lot of weight in).

Smoking on the field
What can I say…. Lax control of unprofessional staff. If it was my field he would no longer be staff.

OVERALL
I think it makes Tyger look like he simply has a beef with the “pro” player. He didn’t actually seem to want to correct any issues, only point them out for his footage, and even make some issues/non-issues seem way more important than they are . I feel that some issues were dramatized in typical Tyger fashion, but it is nothing that I would get upset about or want to flame him for. He is who he is.

For my customers as well as my business however, I would from this point on ask Tyger if he is filming and if so ask that he does not. Many fields have rules about cameras on the field anyways, and I can’t say I would allow a random person to film at my business or even home. I understand the “hidden camera” concept and admit that it does come in handy many times… I would just not leave myself open to that chance as a business if I knew someone specifically did that.

I also don’t feel that we should disregard the tape because we see these things all the time (as stated by BigEvil). But I do question the motives for the tape since it is clear that it was not to fix problems but to get footage folks could “talk about”. Well, that sure happened. And I believe that is Tyger’s intent. I am not saying this is good or bad, only saying that anyone who knows Tyger knows he tends to be on the dramatic side and often appears to want the attention or to stir the pot for the sake of stirring the pot.

Good footage though, I enjoyed watching it. I tend to ignore commentaries though and watch what is really happening, not what the producer wants me to think. All in all I think Tyger came off looking as bad as those he wanted to make look bad, for whatever reason. There is a difference between hidden camera footage aimed to find fraud, cheating, or unsafe acts, and that which looks more like an excited dog sniffing around for controversy… even if the dog has to create it. A spark not a big enough story, sit and blow on it until it is a roaring fire… then claim you are just filming what you see. ;)

[luke]

#1
Yes, the guy on the sideline should have kept his mouth shut, but it just as easily could have been a team mate. Expect to get lit up if you approach a bunker like that, regardless of the situation, or don't do it.

#2
I think you play "over the top" of your bunker too much. :p

#3
I loved the part where the kid is screaming for a pod and out comes the 10 round tube. :rofl:

And as Forrest, Forrest Gump would say "and that's all I have to say about that".

[luke]

Wait a minute, so this pro player that was "playing hardball" against the walk ons was playing a rather laid back game staying in the back. And when he became aware of someone trying to bunker him he went all out. Now I am far from a pro player, but I do play a lot of mixed groups. If you are new player at walk on, you get cut slack, I am not going to push your side of the field, I am not going to bunker you, and I am going to offer you surrender options if I get close. That being said, you play hard, come into my bunker, regardless of your level of skill or equipment I am going to make every effort to "school" you for it. If you get in my face over someone elses actions about it, I am going to get right back in yours. I had an argument once about "coaching" on field, where I did receive some justified coaching. We then got over it and get along just fine. To have someone walk around after me, and feel the need to call me on anything I might do wrong, because I have annoyed them, isn't going to fly. I personally think that Danny handled the situation as well as he could have, considering the aggressiveness of Tyger.

I get the feeling that Tyger went out looking for problems... and he found a dishonest player (ok, spectator).. Anyone surprised? Anyone else notice Tyger advancing on a player being checked by the ref?


Well said, excellent post, I agree completely. :cheers:

[thecavemankevin]

i have to say i agree with shartley on this. It seemed more to me like tyger was upset because he was excited that he (pump) was going to own a likely good player running a massively upped gun. But that bunker attempt was thwarted by neither party involved, by some side line idiot and tyger got his feelings hurt. So he like most of us looked for someone to lash out at, regardless if it was pointless or not.

I did not see a single thing that Tiljack did wrong except the very petty "everyone look, he's not using the proper BBD :cry:" I mean come on, thats pathetic to sit there and point it out over and over again like he is responsible for the demise of family values in today’s society.

Moreover, Tyger, do you mean to tell me that if someone on the sidelines just blurted out "someones coming for you" that you would not actually utilize that information and just sit there and wait? Weather you would jump out like Tiljack with a strong offense or weather you'd prepare for it with a tight tucked defense waiting for the first signs of the pursuer to round the corner and then pounce. You know damn well you and everyone in the world would utilize that info in some fashion, regardless if it was asked for or not!

so he didn’t want to fess up to the fact that he plays on Dynasty, big whoop.

There were three guys that did something wrong here:

The guy that started this thread stating Tiljack cheats with walk-ons and not having any evidence of that statement
The loud mouth that blurted out from the side lines giving Tyger away
and Tyger for making that video in the sensationalistic style of stupid fat Michael Moore


Get over it and quite ruining my life!!!


[/rant]

[gmp211]

Actaully, I came here because PBN deleted the thread, so Dynasty will not get a badder image. I just thought I would share it with you, not have a flame war.(Unlike PBN. I should be paid to be a firefighter :p) I can see some are mad. And Im not blaming Tiljack. Better yet, I just dont know why the field is like that, and people do, do that stuff.

[Steelrat]

I did not see a single thing that Tiljack did wrong except the very petty "everyone look, he's not using the proper BBD :cry:" I mean come on, thats pathetic to sit there and point it out over and over again like he is responsible for the demise of family values in today’s society.




It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye.

Nothing is more important than safety in the game, NOTHING. And pro-players, who really are the primary ambassadors of the sport, should go above and beyond to show the correct way to do things. Throwing a swab, AKA potential projectile, down the barrel, while "cool" and "old school," is just stupid and dangerous. Personally, when I saw someone at a field doing something unsage, I made sure it was resolved.

And yelling from the sidelines is a cheap and sleazy tactic. I don't care if they do it in XYZ tournament series, its just unsportsmanlike. It should be my sill (or lack thereof) versus yours, without any outside interference.

[gmp211]

Woah, That wasn't a rant nor flame! On PBN, all they did was flame. And the reason Tyger gets made and did all that, is because he wanted to show, that speedballers think it's 'OK' to do stuff like that.

[Steelrat]

Woah, That wasn't a rant nor flame! On PBN, all they did was flame. And the reason Tyger gets made and did all that, is because he wanted to show, that speedballers think it's 'OK' to do stuff like that.

This is no longer a sport where good sportsmanship and courtesy are valued attributes. Aggressive behavior, in-your-face antics, and thuggish attitude seem to be the norm, at least in speedball.

[shartley]

Actaully, I came here because PBN deleted the thread, so Dynasty will not get a badder image. I just thought I would share it with you, not have a flame war.(Unlike PBN. I should be paid to be a firefighter :p) I can see some are mad. And Im not blaming Tiljack. Better yet, I just dont know why the field is like that, and people do, do that stuff.

About the field, I got a PM from Tyger last night.

"gmp211 wrote:
Send E-mails to fields.(Like the one you were at with Tiljack) And do the FPS, but notice on the refs. Like say to the field you were at. That you would sell some footage, of there refs not supporting rules, and even braking some.


Just an Idea."
__________________________________________________ ________________________________________
Tyger wrote:
"That field won't care. They've already had an eye injury in the staging area, and lost. They're under new management, and from all I see they don't care.

Besides, they'll see it. I know they will."
First of all, the eye injury was cased by faulty equipment, not the lack of using it. That is a huge distinction between the two.

As for under new management and they would not care…. That is weak excuse not to do the right thing yourself. The fact that they may see the footage at some point is one of the poorest excuses I have read so far for not doing the right thing. Sorry, but out of good form you (Tyger) should have notified the staff immediately of any rules violations or staff behavior. Then they can decide what to do about it, or not do about it. But taking that option away only makes yourself look bad.

I for one would be very upset if someone saw something at my business that was not right (and FILMED it) but REFUSED to let me know about it in favor of posting it on the internet to create drama. I don’t know… I might even ban that person from my business, at least for a while.

The more I see of this issue, the more I am convinced Tyger is not truly interested in stopping cheating or even unsafe actions, but creating controversy for the sake of controversy.

[thecavemankevin]

It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye.

Nothing is more important than safety in the game, NOTHING. And pro-players, who really are the primary ambassadors of the sport, should go above and beyond to show the correct way to do things. Throwing a swab, AKA potential projectile, down the barrel, while "cool" and "old school," is just stupid and dangerous. Personally, when I saw someone at a field doing something unsage, I made sure it was resolved.

And yelling from the sidelines is a cheap and sleazy tactic. I don't care if they do it in XYZ tournament series, its just unsportsmanlike. It should be my sill (or lack thereof) versus yours, without any outside interference.

i never said what he did was right. In fact i specifically said what Tiljack did was wrong. However, what's even worse is that Tyger saw it, recognized it, and sensationalized it. Moreover, he did nothing to resolve the problem...only point it out and yell from his high horse...."hey everyone look at the pro player breaking the rules"

He's no better than someone that complains that XXX won an election, yet he did not vote so he should not have a let to stand on.

[Steelrat]

i never said what he did was right. In fact i specifically said what Tiljack did was wrong. However, what's even worse is that Tyger saw it, recognized it, and sensationalized it. Moreover, he did nothing to resolve the problem...only point it out and yell from his high horse...."hey everyone look at the pro player breaking the rules"

He's no better than someone that complains that XXX won an election, yet he did not vote so he should not have a let to stand on.

Well, if you go back and re-read your post, you said it was "petty," whereas I believe there is nothing more important out there than safety, not only to prevent injuries, but to promote the long-term viability of the sport. I'm glad he sensationalized it. That guy is a pro, yet he can't cough up $2 for a barrel bag? I have 5 of the damn things in my kit I bring everywhere. Thats basic safety 101 right there.

Personally, I think the whole pro team scene needed to be taken down a notch or two. Some of the posts I saw from Dynasty members were juvenile in the extreme, and all their fanboi's and their idle worship makes me ill.

[tribalman]

Who the hell wants to catch flies?

Two comments:

1. Battle swab as barrel plug - Unacceptable. What could happen if that swab were blown out of the barrel and hit someone in the safe area? The stated rule, as verified three times by the ref, was that the ONLY barrel-blocking device to be used is a cover/condom/sock. It's a field rule, therefore, it should be adhered to. NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE...


from what i've heard, someone did get shot in the eye at this field. i would think this would be the number one rule at their field, over enforced in fact. but ccp used to be my favorite field, but it got too dirty. the field almost always has as layer of paint on the ground. and the comment about ramping/cheating, it is in effect there.

[gmp211]

Yes, that field is messed up. The refs show it all.

As far as this conversation. It turned out better then I thought. Atleast it didn't get deleted! I started 2 at PBN, both got flamed and deleted.

[Furby]

That's some funny stuff, I don't care what anyone says.

Tiljack wasn't doing anything wrong as far as I can see...even the best players in the world still love to play, and if the guy wants to play, then no problem on this end.

The douchebag at the net calling out that Tyger was coming is just that...a douchebag.

Tyger is one of those guys you either love or hate...personally, I applaud him for doing this, and I think he should do it more often. It takes a brave man to #1, walk out onto a field today with a stockgun, and #2 videotape the experience and show it publicly. Seems to me that Tyger is willing to put his skills on display for everyone to see, good or bad. Hell, I wouldn't be willing to do that...but I suck!

Sadly, what Tyger documented is status quo for quite a bit of the walk-on community these days...it's about time it was shown for the world to see. If a field op has a problem with someone filming/taking pictures, it makes you wonder what they're worried about. So long as the photographer/videographer wears a mask and signs the field waiver, then there's no real excuse for it other than the field op has something to hide, or is just flat out overly sensitive.

Hell, I'll have to get up his way sometime and play some 'ball with him...

[gmp211]

Tyger is the man! I know that. I talk to him over the 'net.

If you watch the other FPS videos he makes. He made 2 barrel tags in a ROW!

[behemoth]

I NEED A POD!!!

"need 10?"

[gmp211]

Yeah, That was funny. The kid left it too. But that shows you who Tyger is.

[Steelrat]

Tyger is one of those guys you either love or hate...personally, I applaud him for doing this, and I think he should do it more often. It takes a brave man to #1, walk out onto a field today with a stockgun, and #2 videotape the experience and show it publicly. Seems to me that Tyger is willing to put his skills on display for everyone to see, good or bad. Hell, I wouldn't be willing to do that...but I suck!



Well, to be absolutely fair, we are only seeing the footage he wants us to see. If I was making a 5 minute tape out of a whole days play, chances are I'd only include my brilliant/lucky moves, and leave out the falls, stupid eliminations, and embarassing mistakes.

[gmp211]

If you would watch the FPS were it was all pump. He sucked. He didnt edit that out. He got hit on the break 3 times in a row or something like that. He would show when he does bad, trust me.

[Cow hunter]

If you would watch the FPS were it was all pump. He sucked. He didnt edit that out. He got hit on the break 3 times in a row or something like that. He would show when he does bad, trust me.
agreed, it was fps 4, and the whole time he was saying "i suck" cause he kept getting hit....
/i love the music in all the fps vids

[Tyger]

Well, to be absolutely fair, we are only seeing the footage he wants us to see. If I was making a 5 minute tape out of a whole days play, chances are I'd only include my brilliant/lucky moves, and leave out the falls, stupid eliminations, and embarassing mistakes.

No, I try to put it in. Good, bad, ugly, beautiful, if it happened, and it looked good, it's in. Even if it's me getting pasted because I'm too dense to use a bunker right. I'm waiting for a shot of the camera getting hit, THAT'S going in. Even better if it's a longball that you can see the ball in flight. I'll put that one in slow motion and enhance the hell out of it.

In all honesty, paintball is a BORING sport to film, and even more boring to edit. You may not realize it, but out of a 5 minute game there's about 4 minutes of "sit and shoot". You have no idea how DULL that is when you're editing. The "raw" footage for FPS 5 was 45 minutes, plus about 10 minutes of audio when the video feed cut out becasue I yanked a cord. I bring it down to the highlights. And not all highlights are "good".

And I'm mad about that cord yank too, becasue the last game of the night I had a WHOLE BODY to shoot at and I couldn't hit the guy to save my life! It would have been good stuff for the final edit.

I do realize that everyone here is putting thier own spin on what I put out there, and that's fine. I'm used to that by now. But since no single person has asked me what my "agenda" is, or what my "angle" is, or even why I do the things that I do, nobody has the right to speak for me or claim they know what I'm doing. I haven't recieved one e-mail, PM, or any form of communication asking me "Why are you doing that?" Especially not from every person on this thread who has claimed to know my angle, and my "agenda".

'Yall put words in my mouth routinely. How about asking me for some of my own for a change?

[punkncat]

I do realize that everyone here is putting thier own spin on what I put out there, and that's fine. I'm used to that by now. But since no single person has asked me what my "agenda" is, or what my "angle" is, or even why I do the things that I do, nobody has the right to speak for me or claim they know what I'm doing. I haven't recieved one e-mail, PM, or any form of communication asking me "Why are you doing that?" Especially not from every person on this thread who has claimed to know my angle, and my "agenda".

'Yall put words in my mouth routinely. How about asking me for some of my own for a change?


Well allow me to be the first. What were you thinking? What was your "adgenda"? Whats your "angle" ?

Why did you set out to make such a big situation out of a simple walk on game floob?

*note the made up word*

[Beemer]

Well, if you go back and re-read your post, you said it was "petty," whereas I believe there is nothing more important out there than safety, not only to prevent injuries, but to promote the long-term viability of the sport. I'm glad he sensationalized it. That guy is a pro, yet he can't cough up $2 for a barrel bag? I have 5 of the damn things in my kit I bring everywhere. Thats basic safety 101 right there.

I like that, Basic SAFETY 101. You see the big pic as I do and I agree with the rest of your post. I still wanna be able to play ten years from now some where at a legal field.

If you read the thread you would see that he put on a bag. A rental one at that. :rofl: :rofl:
What a lack of class and style on top of no respect for Safety. Five bucks for a new one right from the start and hes golden. What WAS he thinking.

The question is, why is a BBD the first defense and not the last. Its uninformed, uneducated players on PROPER GUN Safety thats why.

Peace Out

_____________

http://home.comcast.net/~beemer2/respect.gif

[shortkidsrus]

Cool idea, but I have a question...

This is for everybody that was bagging on Danny Tiljack:

What did you expect him to do when the guy on sidelines coached him?

The only other thing he could have done (besides shoot Tyger) was let himself get bunkered. I don't think I know anybody who would let themselves get bunkered...

[shartley]

I do realize that everyone here is putting thier own spin on what I put out there, and that's fine. I'm used to that by now. But since no single person has asked me what my "agenda" is, or what my "angle" is, or even why I do the things that I do, nobody has the right to speak for me or claim they know what I'm doing. I haven't recieved one e-mail, PM, or any form of communication asking me "Why are you doing that?" Especially not from every person on this thread who has claimed to know my angle, and my "agenda".

'Yall put words in my mouth routinely. How about asking me for some of my own for a change?
I truly mean no offense, and I have no ill feelings toward you, but this is hogwash. YOU took the footage. YOU edited the footage. YOU put in comments to guide the viewer to your though process. And then when the viewer takes what YOU do and points out what is clear to most people, you claim they have no right?

None of us has to e-mail or PM you and ask you why you did it. I for one simply looked at what you did and can see the reasons clearly by simple deductive reasoning. Anyone who knows you knows you are a drama driven individual who not only likes to create controversy but be right in the middle of it. I don’t say this to be mean though, only to point out what people have seen for years. Most of us though just chalk it up to Tyger being Tyger, neither getting upset nor overjoyed about it.

But I do notice though that you didn’t try to say anyone was WRONG about your motives or intent, only that no one specifically asked YOU what they were. It comes back down to YOU, and YOU not getting the chance to be the center. Tyger, you had all the chance in the world when you MADE the movie. YOU were in total control. We see what YOU wanted us to see, so don’t act all upset or hurt now when we say exactly what we see.

But okay, here is your chance… what WERE your motives? Why didn’t you notify the field of safety and staff issues immediately if you were truly concerned about it? And don’t try to pull any of that “they would not listen anyways” garbage like you did in the PM posted above. Why did you take such an aggressive stance toward a player who was simply out to have a good day of playing paintball? Jealous? Upset because you didn’t get a chance to bunker him? Why?

You have the floor…..

[thecavemankevin]

I do realize that everyone here is putting thier own spin on what I put out there, and that's fine. I'm used to that by now. But since no single person has asked me what my "agenda" is, or what my "angle" is, or even why I do the things that I do, nobody has the right to speak for me or claim they know what I'm doing. I haven't recieved one e-mail, PM, or any form of communication asking me "Why are you doing that?" Especially not from every person on this thread who has claimed to know my angle, and my "agenda".

'Yall put words in my mouth routinely. How about asking me for some of my own for a change?


as shartley basically pointed out, your actions clearly speak louder than your words. You tried to make Tiljack look like a fool and your motives be damned....its clear to see that is what you were doing. all the while the true fool was the one in the editing room.

[phantomhitman]

as shartley basically pointed out, your actions clearly speak louder than your words. You tried to make Tiljack look like a fool and your motives be damned....its clear to see that is what you were doing. all the while the true fool was the one in the editing room.

ding ding ding, we have a winner, give this man an item of his choice.

Look, Tiljack wasnt being an ***, his friend was. Of course he is going to say he doesnt play tourneys if you ask him, especially after the "scene" that was caused. Tiljack is not a starter on Dynasty or even close to a star player, that is a moot point anyways. You should have told the manager about the bbd and not repeating it over and over to the ref if that was an issue. He should have had a bbd and he was wrong for not having it. You should have spoken to the manager about the kid smoking also. Why do you and your guys play with walk ons and rec players? You said you and the some of the best pump players in the region were there, what is the purpose of lowering the skill around you? Or am I just looking at different clips of different days? If you would have asked the owner/manager about the rules or just complained to them more would have happened. I also do not see teh point of not confront Dan in person rather than going behind his back to post a video of him on the net.
You point was to show that people are not as honest when you hide the camera and even cave monkeys know that. When you point a camera at people you will see things change wethers its your family or a game. This footage shows nothing about pro players or speedball players at all. I have seen more cheating in rec woodsball games than all of your videos combined. If I had a camera I would prove this but alas I am poor. I understand you want a good clean game but that has to do with the person holding the gun, not what type of game he plays.

[JOESPUD27]

I applaud Tygers efforts and hope he does more hidden camera videos.

on the "coaching" incident,
an honorable player would have been just as mad as tyger.. told the coach to STFU and gave tyger a "do over".

Barrel bag... If it is the field policy for "barrel bags" ONLY, then the offending player should not have even been on the field. I'm sure that the only reason he was allowed was because he's on dynasty.

Ref smoking on the field... wow this field is a classy place.

Fields owners and refs that don't enforce posted rules are the major contributor of the decay of recreational paintball.
QFT Took the words right out of my mouth.

Jay

[Tyger]

as shartley basically pointed out, your actions clearly speak louder than your words. You tried to make Tiljack look like a fool and your motives be damned....its clear to see that is what you were doing.

I caught him in a lie. If he's casually lying about playing in tournaments, then it opens the door to ask what else he's lying about, or being mistruthful about.

[Tyger]

None of us has to e-mail or PM you and ask you why you did it. I for one simply looked at what you did and can see the reasons clearly by simple deductive reasoning. Anyone who knows you knows you are a drama driven individual who not only likes to create controversy but be right in the middle of it. I don’t say this to be mean though, only to point out what people have seen for years. Most of us though just chalk it up to Tyger being Tyger, neither getting upset nor overjoyed about it.

But I do notice though that you didn’t try to say anyone was WRONG about your motives or intent, only that no one specifically asked YOU what they were. It comes back down to YOU, and YOU not getting the chance to be the center. Tyger, you had all the chance in the world when you MADE the movie. YOU were in total control. We see what YOU wanted us to see, so don’t act all upset or hurt now when we say exactly what we see.

But okay, here is your chance… what WERE your motives? Why didn’t you notify the field of safety and staff issues immediately if you were truly concerned about it? And don’t try to pull any of that “they would not listen anyways” garbage like you did in the PM posted above. Why did you take such an aggressive stance toward a player who was simply out to have a good day of playing paintball? Jealous? Upset because you didn’t get a chance to bunker him? Why?
So you're saying you have an agenda yourself, proving my point? 'Put the bad spin on Tyger's video', or simply just bash the guy with quasi-fame? Or just mad that i've managed to get a foothold in the sport through my own hard work, and not through piggybacking on somoene else's fame?

The FPS Series goal is simple. To show people what's going on in paintball. The good, the bad, everything. As stated before, you all flame me when I tell you what I see, now you flame me when I SHOW you too. It's like I'm fighting a wall of disbelief. "Well, he edits the footage" or "Well, he's just showing us what HE WANTS US to see." I could provide a mountian of video evidence of what I've been talking about for years and you still wouldn't believe it because of your personal agenda!

I have no anger twords Dan, in fact I could care less who he is except he lied. If he would have said "Yeah, I play in some tournaments" there would be no problem. But if you lie casually it questions everything else that you do. What else is a lie, or a mistruth? What esle would you casually drop to feed your own purposes?

As far as "Agenda", I have none other than to show what's happening through the unblinking eye. If you believe me or not is your problem. I did mention the safety problems to the field staff, they blew me off, so that proves to me they didn't care. Is it an "Aggressive" stance if fun involves overshooting other customers? If I showed up to your field, and lit up people saying "It's how I play" You'd throw me out. IF a pro player does the same, do you give him preferential treatment? Apparently, some fields do.

You say you "don’t say this to be mean", but I'm finding that your attacks are unwarranted and VERY personal. It's almost like I hit a nerve, like I could show up at your field and film something bad happening and publish it JUST to hurt you. Believe me, I'm not gunning for any person, place, or subset. I'm an equal opportunity bastard. But when you're on the recieving end, it seems, everyone persecutes you and you alone.

I also find it amusing that you hide behind "We've seen it for years" as your defense. That's weaker than attacking me for "not reporting" safety issues becasue the field doesn't care. "Well, expirence tells me this is the way things are." Didn't you flame me for saying the same thing in a PM about a field owner? You flame me for publicly airing a problem without talking to the proper sources, then turn around and do the same thing yourself! You, sir, are a hippocryte.

And on a final note, you say actions speak louder than words. Then I tell you to look at my actions. Did I yell at Dan? Did I challenge him to a fight? Did I get in his face? No. I caught him in a lie, and I caught his friend saying he would "come after" me on the field. Was the video edited? YES, becasue I don't think people want to see 35 minutes of sitting in a bunker aiming a paintgun, or walking to the start area.

And due to the nature of this post, and with laws being passed, I will sign this :

-Rob Rubin AKA : "Tyger"

(That's my REAL NAME, for those keeping score at home. Now you can't report me to the government for being annoying.)

[shartley]

You would have done better to just keep your mouth shut, but since you want to keep digging….

So you're saying you have an agenda yourself, proving my point? 'Put the bad spin on Tyger's video', or simply just bash the guy with quasi-fame? Or just mad that i've managed to get a foothold in the sport through my own hard work, and not through piggybacking on somoene else's fame?
I didn’t have an agenda per se. I only point out that you yourself are as much at fault for what you made and showed as those in the video who you are trying to show are so bad. And I didn’t bash the video, I actually said I LIKED the video itself, not its message. But I guess you can’t read?

As for your “fame” remarks… LOL Too grand. Truly you think more of yourself than is truly there. I like the insinuation that I am not famous or that any notoriety I may have is because I piggybacked off of someone else. LOL Point of fact, I have not piggybacked off of anyone. Folks who know me know me for MY work or at least from things folks have claimed I have done or said.

If that was not what you are saying, I am sorry… but it looked like it to me. LOL


The FPS Series goal is simple. To show people what's going on in paintball. The good, the bad, everything. As stated before, you all flame me when I tell you what I see, now you flame me when I SHOW you too. It's like I'm fighting a wall of disbelief. "Well, he edits the footage" or "Well, he's just showing us what HE WANTS US to see." I could provide a mountian of video evidence of what I've been talking about for years and you still wouldn't believe it because of your personal agenda!
Hogwash. You say you just wanted to show what goes on, but then make it into a grudge video against Dan. You made WAY more of his actions than needed to be. I admit he was wrong with the barrel swab, but you didn’t address the issue immediately as you SHOULD have since it was such a safety violation. That my friend is just as bad as if you had done it yourself.


I have no anger twords Dan, in fact I could care less who he is except he lied. If he would have said "Yeah, I play in some tournaments" there would be no problem. But if you lie casually it questions everything else that you do. What else is a lie, or a mistruth? What esle would you casually drop to feed your own purposes?
He didn’t lie “casually”, he was simply trying to avoid any confrontation with you and chose the wrong thing to say. That does not make every action of his “questionable”. To think so is not only silly, but ignorant.


As far as "Agenda", I have none other than to show what's happening through the unblinking eye. If you believe me or not is your problem. I did mention the safety problems to the field staff, they blew me off, so that proves to me they didn't care. Is it an "Aggressive" stance if fun involves overshooting other customers? If I showed up to your field, and lit up people saying "It's how I play" You'd throw me out. IF a pro player does the same, do you give him preferential treatment? Apparently, some fields do.
That is NOT what the video showed, sorry. And that is YOUR fault. It is also not what the PM posted above showed either, sorry. And that too is YOUR fault. So you either lied in the video, or in the PM… should we now question everything you do? Same standards as you are now trying to pass on to Dan, right? But it is funny how you make claims to HIS agenda for playing with “rec-players”. I see how it is….


You say you "don’t say this to be mean", but I'm finding that your attacks are unwarranted and VERY personal. It's almost like I hit a nerve, like I could show up at your field and film something bad happening and publish it JUST to hurt you. Believe me, I'm not gunning for any person, place, or subset. I'm an equal opportunity bastard. But when you're on the recieving end, it seems, everyone persecutes you and you alone.
I need not say any more on this, you did just fine yourself. Good job. The only thing I will say is that I never attacked you. I pointed out that your video was far from being what you are now claiming it was. We have eyes. We can see things for what they are. And I have time and again stated that I don’t dislike you, but that does not mean that I can’t point out when you are piling on the fecal-matter.


I also find it amusing that you hide behind "We've seen it for years" as your defense. That's weaker than attacking me for "not reporting" safety issues becasue the field doesn't care. "Well, expirence tells me this is the way things are." Didn't you flame me for saying the same thing in a PM about a field owner? You flame me for publicly airing a problem without talking to the proper sources, then turn around and do the same thing yourself! You, sir, are a hippocryte.
Nowhere did I hide behind “we’ve seen it for years” as a defense for what I saw in the video, only your actions. You may be confusing me with what others have said. And I have not flamed you once in this thread. Anyone who knows you knows you DO have a propensity for the dramatic and then when folks dislike something you say or do you kick it up another notch. Do you deny this is true?

Also saying I don’t agree with you and what I feel your purpose is, is FAR from flaming you. Yet you call ME a hypocrite and use examples that don’t even reflect what I think or even posted?

And I DID come to you. Right here on the forum. YOU posted here. YOU read what people wrote and engaged in dialogue. So I posted openly TO you here. How much more direct do you want it? Privately? Heck you posted your video publicly and seemed to welcome discussion about it. But I see you only want fan-boy comments or those who agree with you. Fine, but at least be honest about it. And that is FAR from not contacting a field about issues when you have the chance… as you said you would not do in your PM.

Here sir, let me take that shovel you are using to dig yourself a deeper hole with so you can rest a while…..


And on a final note, you say actions speak louder than words. Then I tell you to look at my actions. Did I yell at Dan? Did I challenge him to a fight? Did I get in his face? No. I caught him in a lie, and I caught his friend saying he would "come after" me on the field. Was the video edited? YES, becasue I don't think people want to see 35 minutes of sitting in a bunker aiming a paintgun, or walking to the start area.
No, you didn’t. You made a video and in it attempted to belittle him and ridicule him. And now you try to deny it and act like you were simply on some holy paintball crusade. Yes Tyger you are a martyr and didn’t do anything wrong. Everyone who sees it the way I do are wrong and just making things up out of some need to attack you. We are so unworthy and jealous of your paintball fame and only wish we could be half as righteous as you….. or maybe not.


And due to the nature of this post, and with laws being passed, I will sign this :

-Rob Rubin AKA : "Tyger"

(That's my REAL NAME, for those keeping score at home. Now you can't report me to the government for being annoying.)
Now THAT is true comic relief. No, seriously. While the rest is laughable, this is actually “funny”.

But let me guess, you will now try to come back and try to prove that I am at fault here and make the issue one about me. Tell you what Tyger, next time you post a video for the world to see you might want to edit it better or more to what you were trying to do. Because it is clear that if your intentions were as noble as you are trying to claim they are, you sure missed the mark in the editing room…. as well as in your defense here in this thread.

So take my comments as just another person typing online and let them go…. I neither have the time nor desire to mix words with you any longer. Folks have eyes, they can read, they can make up their own minds. What I say should not matter, right? I am nothing………..

[Tyger]

But let me guess, you will now try to come back and try to prove that I am at fault here and make the issue one about me.

No need. You did a better job than I ever could.

[Tyger]

I have seen more cheating in rec woodsball games than all of your videos combined. If I had a camera I would prove this but alas I am poor. I understand you want a good clean game but that has to do with the person holding the gun, not what type of game he plays.

And when I film cheaters on the woods fields, they will be on the web in 48 hours or so. At Paintball Sams, after I took the camera off for the day, a player on my team wiped a hit in front of me. I was torqued off that I missed that shot, as I would have put it in online for you to see.

Again, I'm an equal opportunity bastard. Right now it's winter, so I'm limited from filming outdoor games. But once Spring comes back, I'm SURE I'll catch my share of jerks in the woods. When I do, you'll see it.

[Lohman446]

My opinion, and my advise to field owners / managers / refs is that Tyger has just made it harder for those of us who do not try to stir the pot. I make no judgement on if that is right or wrong...

That being said, there would be an explicit rule at any field I ran that stated there would be no filming or photography without written permission. I will trust Tyger when he says he did not do it, but I do not need someone, in the future, editing a video in a disparaging way towards where I work / play.

[TDonovan]

The thread on pbn died, they don't like heated debate. I don't agree that Tiljack was really trying to cheat or lie, like it was said, he seemed a LOT like he just wanted to avoid confrontation (which IMO is a good thing). The guy coaching was a punk, and people like that really do ruin games. It's INCREDIBLY tough to be a rec player, and one credit to this video is that it shows that. It shows the low quality of the reffing in many cases (smoking on the field), the lack of enforcing of important rules (nobody wants to go blind because of a lack of a barrel condom), and the lack of respect for rec players. I feel bad for the guys that pay a $25 field fee, $75 case of paint, and $20 rental fee to have some punk coaching from the sidelines and ruining their experience. It's why I avoid playing rec at all costs...

I also like the FPS video footage itself. What kinda camera setup are you using to do that Tyger? I'd love to hook one of those up and catch the game from my perspective.


And when I film cheaters on the woods fields, they will be on the web in 48 hours or so. At Paintball Sams, after I took the camera off for the day, a player on my team wiped a hit in front of me. I was torqued off that I missed that shot, as I would have put it in online for you to see.

Again, I'm an equal opportunity bastard. Right now it's winter, so I'm limited from filming outdoor games. But once Spring comes back, I'm SURE I'll catch my share of jerks in the woods. When I do, you'll see it.

Why film a cheater on your team when you can just shoot them in the back until they leave? :D

It's almost more fun shooting cheaters than shooting at the other team. I nailed this one dude in the butt like 3 times before he finally caught me shooting at him. I was rolling around laughing because he jumped about a foot and grabbed his cheeks. THATS when the hit he wiped off his goggles reappeared when the other team lit him up. I just got sick of seeing the guy cheat ALL day and decided it would be fun to do my own vigilante-style reffing.

[punkncat]

I caught him in a lie. If he's casually lying about playing in tournaments, then it opens the door to ask what else he's lying about, or being mistruthful about.

What was so bad about this guy wanting to play a game of paintball w/o people hounding him about who he was? Have you never ever told a little white lie in order to smooth over a possible situation? Did his neglecting to tell people who he was honestly affect anyone?
Were you forthright about the fact that you were filming everyone? Is a lie of omission better than a spoken one?



... 'Put the bad spin on Tyger's video',...

You created the video with a bad spin. No one had to do that for you.


I did mention the safety problems to the field staff, they blew me off, so that proves to me they didn't care.

Is there a big safety issue with using a barrel cleaner over a barrel bag? Was the barrel not effectively blocked? Making an issue of that was like splitting hairs. I can see no reason why that wasn't as safe if not safer than using a cover.
On top of that who made it your job to say or do anything about it? Once it was mentioned to a ref that should have been the end of it. Although to be honest I cannot see where it warrented such attention. The owner didn't think so, the ref didn't think so, and none of the other players thought so. Were we looking for some sort of moral high ground? Just trying to create a situation for the sake of your own amusement?



and I caught his friend saying he would "come after" me on the field

I think we can all see that this was not meant as a real threat. I am not really seeing how anyone can spin it into coming off like one.


And my question still goes unanswered. Why did you set out to make such a big situation out of this? Were you playing towards a goal unknown to the other players? Why did YOU choose to make this into such an ordeal?

I think the problem involves the fact that you were unable to film yourself eliminating a "big tourney player". That would have been real nice huh? The brass ring? Another notch in the belt.....You acted like a jilted schoolgirl. Made a big deal out of something that should have been brushed off. It meant nothing. The spin was for nothing more than your own ego.


Beyond this particular video I must say I have enjoyed watching many of the ones you have made in the past. I think it would come across much better in the future if it would remain along the lines of an impartial documentary and allow the audience to draw their own conclusions rather than being steered towards yours.

[p8ntball72]

FYI,
Any field Insured by PBA, NSERA, or the APL REQUIRE a barrel condom to even have Insurance.

any field owner, Ref, or player that thinks otherwise is not only jepordising our safty but is also VOIDING insurance coverage in case of catastrophic accident.

requirments that MUST be met to even have insurance..
Per the NSERA.
5. BARREL BLOCKING DEVICE REGULATION: The mandatory use of industry-approved Barrel Blocking Devices
[BBD] must be strictly enforced at all times in all non-playing areas. Barrel plugs are no longer considered adequate
protection due to differing barrel sizes and increased rates of fire. Operators must provide barrel covers for all rental
equipment and also for customers to buy if necessary. (Towels, socks, or stick squeegee’s are not considered a BBD!)

Per the APL.
9) PROPER BARREL PLUG REGULATION...
All players are required to have paintball marker barrels blocked or plugged with a device
specifically designed for blocking the ball if the marker is accidentally fired, at all times other than
while in game areas, target range, or at the chronograph area.

[hitech]

I caught him in a lie.

It sounded to me like he was avoiding a confrontation. Considering what he had just witnessed it seems like a reasonable action to me.

[Tyger]

And my question still goes unanswered. Why did you set out to make such a big situation out of this? Were you playing towards a goal unknown to the other players? Why did YOU choose to make this into such an ordeal?

I think the problem involves the fact that you were unable to film yourself eliminating a "big tourney player".

Again, I didn't know who he was 'till he decided to lie. Then I asked one question to one employee, and found out. If I want video of eliminating a "Big tourney player", there are fields I could go to for that. And I could EASILY do it. If tht were my goal.

Funny thing is EVERYONE else is making a big deal out of the situation. Not once have I screamed "HE CHEATED!", You all put that in my mouth, saying what I wanted to do. I've already said the goal over and over, but again. It's what happened. No editing, no BS, it's what happened. This is the goal of the series. To put out there what's happening, not what other people claim is happening.

I highlighted that situation because of many reasons, it was the best footage, for starters. It was a big deal in the night, as many people commented to me that the guy calling my spot out was "BS" WHILE I was still there. In post I had good footage, with some clarity, so it goes in. Look, it would not have mattered WHO it was, it happened. It was good footage, and it's controversy won't make me balk at the situation. You all can claim to know my "true motives" and what I'm "really" up to, but the reality is that you're putting your own spin and bias on the work to fit your own agendas, whatever they are.

And, again, let me restate that I had NO clue who was behind the bunker. He was the last guy in, I had the field position to make the move unseen, so I did. The field setup is such that from the center back you can't look up the middle but you can suppress both sides. So I made the move, a move that was called out by a spectator and tipping off the player behind the bunker. My plan was to make it to his bunker, listen for which side he was shooting out of, then move to the other side for a 1-ball shot. And if it worked, good. If it didn't oh well. Wouldn't matter who was there, it was a move to eliminate the last guy on the field.

No ammount of explanations will convince you folks tho, it seems. I can't state things any more plainly without being condecending.

[lather]

Tyger,

Why didnt you give Tiljack the benefit of the doubt and offered him one of your BBD's? If he refuses then bring it up with the field reps. If he decided to curse or fight with you instead then perhaps you have something worthy of posting on the internet.

When you asked Tiljack if he was a tourney player would you have been more sastified if he said "none of your frickin business?"

Other than the jerk on the sidelines, all this video reveals is that there is a drama queen with a pump.

[Beemer]

Is there a big safety issue with using a barrel cleaner over a barrel bag? Was the barrel not effectively blocked? Making an issue of that was like splitting hairs. I can see no reason why that wasn't as safe if not safer than using a cover.
On top of that who made it your job to say or do anything about it? Once it was mentioned to a ref that should have been the end of it. Although to be honest I cannot see where it warrented such attention. The owner didn't think so, the ref didn't think so, and none of the other players thought so. Were we looking for some sort of moral high ground? Just trying to create a situation for the sake of your own amusement?

Are you for real? A safety rule is a safety rule, period. this guy knew it and didnt Care.
Are you one of those uninformed, uneducated players I keep talking about. Split hairs my butt, you dont see no reason because you are not informed and educated in Paintball safety.
Will you think it warrents attention when somebodys eye gets shot out?????

What ever.............Tyger got burned for sure and as an ex SemiPro player all I can say is you NEVER would catch me breaking a MAJOR safety rule. Thats the whole problem, players today have no respect for SAFETY or The RULES.


As for the rest, the pot is already stirred. To bad you dont like what ya see. Welcome to paintball 2006

____________

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/AoIL.gif

[Tyger]

Why didnt you give Tiljack the benefit of the doubt and offered him one of your BBD's? If he refuses then bring it up with the field reps. If he decided to curse or fight with you instead then perhaps you have something worthy of posting on the internet.

When you asked Tiljack if he was a tourney player would you have been more sastified if he said "none of your frickin business?"

1) I didn't have any to spare, as I was traveling "light" that night. I had the one for my paintgun.

2) Actually, yes. That would have been a better answer. Or "Yes" would have sufficed. Or even "I have." or "I really don't want to get into that." or just raw silence.

And let me ask this. When a pro player goes berserk on a referee (yelling, shooting them, having to be physically manhandled off the field) for missing a call or making a call against them, why is that "ok", but when I take offense at someone interfering with the game, that's being a "Drama Queen"? And why is it that when another famous person goes :dance: on a ref on film, that's overlooked? Double standard, or a case that they don't talk so they're no fun?

[Lohman446]

And let me ask this. When a pro player goes berserk on a referee (yelling, shooting them, having to be physically manhandled off the field) for missing a call or making a call against them, why is that "ok", but when I take offense at someone interfering with the game, that's being a "Drama Queen"? And why is it that when another famous person goes :dance: on a ref on film, that's overlooked?

I don't recall anyone here saying such an action was "ok" or even saying the actions of the spectator were ok. Aside from one person who said it was within the rules and I have already stated my question of that assertion.

[thecavemankevin]

I have no anger twords Dan, in fact I could care less who he is except he lied. If he would have said "Yeah, I play in some tournaments" there would be no problem. But if you lie casually it questions everything else that you do. What else is a lie, or a mistruth? What esle would you casually drop to feed your own purposes?

"Let he who without sin cast the first stone." So do you mean to tell me you have never told a lie? It seems fairly clear to me that TilJack was simply trying to defuse the situation. he saw how you confronted the sideline jerkoff and likely thought it would be better to do all he could to simply stay away from you and possible physical and verbal agression.
Did he lie to you? Yes, but who are you that he has to tell you the truth. Was he sworn in a in a court of law? No

did he cheat? (and i know you never said he did tyger). NO



I did mention the safety problems to the field staff, they blew me off, so that proves to me they didn't care. Is it an "Aggressive" stance if fun involves overshooting other customers? If I showed up to your field, and lit up people saying "It's how I play" You'd throw me out. IF a pro player does the same, do you give him preferential treatment? Apparently, some fields do.

Did he do anything wrong? Yes, He didnt use the proper BBD. You say you told the staff, and perhaps you did, perhaps you didnt. But we certainly never saw you inform the staff that Tiljack was violating the rules. But you were also a party to it because you noticed it and as far as we saw in your video you did nothing about it. Therefore, its similar to if you and a buddy rob a bank and your buddy kills a teller in the process. you are also responsible for that tellers death.



And on a final note, you say actions speak louder than words. Then I tell you to look at my actions. Did I yell at Dan? Did I challenge him to a fight? Did I get in his face? No. I caught him in a lie

I am looking at your actions and i still see you as being a sensationalistic quasi journalist. No you didnt yell at him, but you did briefly confront him. Again, you caught him in a lie, so what are your feelings hurt or something? Whats the big deal?

[thecavemankevin]

Again, I didn't know who he was 'till he decided to lie. Then I asked one question to one employee, and found out.

And, again, let me restate that I had NO clue who was behind the bunker. He was the last guy in, I had the field position to make the move unseen, so I did.

you know that if he were just joe blow player this thread wouldnt exist right now. Your video would, but you certainly would have not made such an issue of "he lied to me, oh poor me, what will i ever do?" :cry:

hey, he's a dude, he's going to lie to chicks like you like all of use guys do.

so why don't you stop crying and instead take the time to get the sand out of your vagina?

[Steelrat]

you know that if he were just joe blow player this thread wouldnt exist right now. Your video would, but you certainly would have not made such an issue of "he lied to me, oh poor me, what will i ever do?" :cry:

hey, he's a dude, he's going to lie to chicks like you like all of use guys do.

so why don't you stop crying and instead take the time to get the sand out of your vagina?

Whoops, this thread just jumped the shark.

[Lohman446]

Personally... Tyger, and I have nothing against you

After seeing you and your aggressiveness with the sideline coach, if you had asked me if I had played tournaments I would have told you, without hesitation that I did... and I would have, considering the tone of voice and previous actions, expected the situation to escalate. I would have been ok with that... Dan attempted, it seemed to me, to difuse a situation, through a lie. Can one really fault him with that?

[punkncat]

Are you for real? A safety rule is a safety rule, period. this guy knew it and didnt Care.
Are you one of those uninformed, uneducated players I keep talking about. Split hairs my butt, you dont see no reason because you are not informed and educated in Paintball safety.
Will you think it warrents attention when somebodys eye gets shot out?????

What ever.............Tyger got burned for sure and as an ex SemiPro player all I can say is you NEVER would catch me breaking a MAJOR safety rule. Thats the whole problem, players today have no respect for SAFETY or The RULES.





Mmm, I suppose to the letter of the rules I must agree with you. I am "informed" and a very safety conscious person. I regularly ref at my local field and have never had a problem with anyone getting their eye shot out.

Now, aside from the "letter of the rule" which says you must use a barrel cover....lets use common sense for a moment. You take a very experianced player who knows how to TURN OFF an electronic marker(I have to admit I am guessing this). You take that same marker and stuff a barrel swab all the way up the barrel and it has become a safe marker. The only thing he could have done with that marker was beat someone with it. I have seen barrel condoms be shot off the end of a marker within a few shots. It would have taken quite a few shots to remove that swab from the end of the barrel as well, if it would have come out at all. We can see him hold that marker by the snatch grip. He isn't dry firing it or pointing towards someone. With the number of hours that fellow has a marker in his hands I think I would trust him to be safe with it in spite of the lack of a "proper" barrel blocking device than I would many number of other less experianced players.


Would I have allowed it on my field while reffing? Well probably not.

Would I have mentioned it to a ref? Meh..not really sure, but the point is that even if I had, once it was done that would have been the end of my involvement with it.

I have a policy about field safety where I am not reffing. If I don't like it or think that something extremely lax is going on I have the ability to pack my stuff and go. I do not have to get self righteous and make an ordeal about it. Throwing people up on the cross while secretly making a film wasn't neccesary. I am pretty certain that you could go to any number of fields and find things wrong if you looked hard enough.

[Crazy]

Anyone care to post a link to the video here?

[thecavemankevin]

Anyone care to post a link to the video here?

there already is a link about 1/2 way down the first page if i recall correctly

[Crazy]

there already is a link about 1/2 way down the first page if i recall correctly

I can't for the life of me find it on the first page... I scanned through the other 3 also.

[hitech]

Here you go...


Looks like they nuked the thread over there. Here is the link to the page with the vid. FPS 5 is the one you want.

http://webdog.specialopspaintball.com/video/fps/

[jfreak]

Mmm, I suppose to the letter of the rules I must agree with you. I am "informed" and a very safety conscious person. I regularly ref at my local field and have never had a problem with anyone getting their eye shot out.

Now, aside from the "letter of the rule" which says you must use a barrel cover....lets use common sense for a moment. You take a very experianced player who knows how to TURN OFF an electronic marker(I have to admit I am guessing this). You take that same marker and stuff a barrel swab all the way up the barrel and it has become a safe marker. The only thing he could have done with that marker was beat someone with it. I have seen barrel condoms be shot off the end of a marker within a few shots. It would have taken quite a few shots to remove that swab from the end of the barrel as well, if it would have come out at all. We can see him hold that marker by the snatch grip. He isn't dry firing it or pointing towards someone. With the number of hours that fellow has a marker in his hands I think I would trust him to be safe with it in spite of the lack of a "proper" barrel blocking device than I would many number of other less experianced players.


Would I have allowed it on my field while reffing? Well probably not.

Would I have mentioned it to a ref? Meh..not really sure, but the point is that even if I had, once it was done that would have been the end of my involvement with it.

I have a policy about field safety where I am not reffing. If I don't like it or think that something extremely lax is going on I have the ability to pack my stuff and go. I do not have to get self righteous and make an ordeal about it. Throwing people up on the cross while secretly making a film wasn't neccesary. I am pretty certain that you could go to any number of fields and find things wrong if you looked hard enough.


punkncat, your very responses are enough to prove that your safety consciousness is suspect. As a ref myself, I often play at other facilities, and would never hesitate to point out a safety violation such as that. In just about every case, the refs are greatful for the extra help(especially with newbs and the whole 'mask on' thing) True, I could also leave for the night, but my consciense(sp) would forever be scarred if someone got hurt after I left. A barrel swab/squeegee is designed to fit snugly yet move freely through the barrel, and while it may be able to hold back a dozen shots before it flies out, as a truely safety minded person why would you take a chance on it? And by the way, Tyger had to share a staging area with said marker. Was it worth his eye or anyone elses just for one guy to be cool?


BTW, Tyger I support what you did, just next time, try to be a bit less confrontational, 'K? If I was Tiljak I would have figured you were looking for a fight and probably blew you off too and avoid a confrontation.

[1stdeadeye]

My take:

Tyger you are a whiney little child.

I guess we are so lucky that you are honest, so lucky...... :rolleyes:

First off, why doesn't a pro player have the right to play for fun? Why does he have to answer your question? Did you ever stop and think for a moment he was trying to stay undercover? Maybe he was just playing for fun with some friends. Maybe he said no because he did not know that you were an equally "famous" paintball personality who could understand him not wanting to be bothered and just have fun.

Your choice of music clearly shows you agenda.

I love the comparrison in this thread to Michael Moore. You sit your fat little but behind the computer and edit the footage to suit your point of view. You add commentary and music. Then you claim to be stating just the facts.

Sorry you are Michael Moore (right down to the "Husky" on your jeans) and not Joe Friday!

Tell you what, I'll let Albinonewt chime in and you can threaten him again and then deny that too.

You Tyger are pathetic. :mad:

[mobsterboy]

yeah yeah, and the sky is falling
who gives a crap. I mean really. He cheated, he prob cheats all the time, and why do we need a 96 post count thread on this?

[tyrion2323]

yeah yeah, and the sky is falling
who gives a crap. I mean really. He cheated, he prob cheats all the time, and why do we need a 96 post count thread on this?

How did he cheat? No, really - what was his offense?

[PissedGodzilla]

How did he cheat? No, really - what was his offense?
Personally I think that douchebag behind him was probably telling him throughout the day. I like how the little fifteenyearold mexican with the mustache things he's all big.

You talk like that to the wrong person, your gonna get jumped.


The plain fact of the matter is that field has seriously crappy refs, who frankly don't give a crap about the rules. I won't be going there anytime soon.


And a dynasty player accused of cheating??? like that's never happened before...

[1stdeadeye]

Personally I think that douchebag behind him was probably telling him throughout the day. I like how the little fifteenyearold mexican with the mustache things he's all big.

.

If that was the case, you know Tyger would have edited the film to show multiple instance throught an ENTIRE day of play. Not a one time occurrance.

[PissedGodzilla]

it doesn't matter how many times somebody cheats... one cheat is too many... I can't believe you are arguing FOR cheating deadeye wtf is wrong with you?

[1stdeadeye]

it doesn't matter how many times somebody cheats... one cheat is too many... I can't believe you are arguing FOR cheating deadeye wtf is wrong with you?

I am not advocating cheating. You saw one side of the story. Ask Nick about AO SC II! I know about being accused of cheating when you did not do it. Even Nick said I was in the right.

If anyone cheated, it was the little jerk in the dead box. I am no fan boy of dynasty, but I know better then to take Tyger's unbiased word. Ask Newt about him.

[tyrion2323]

Personally I think that douchebag behind him was probably telling him throughout the day. I like how the little fifteenyearold mexican with the mustache things he's all big.

You talk like that to the wrong person, your gonna get jumped.


The plain fact of the matter is that field has seriously crappy refs, who frankly don't give a crap about the rules. I won't be going there anytime soon.


And a dynasty player accused of cheating??? like that's never happened before...

Speculation doesn't mean squat. How was Danny Tiljak cheating? That's the name of the thread, and that's what's being insinuated by both Tyger's videos and subsequent posts. He's being lambasted for what? Playing paintball? He didn't cheat, and he has every right to play with walk ons. It didn't seem from the video that he was overshooting, acting like a jerk or treating other players wrongly. I've seen plenty of jerks shout out from the sidelines. I've also seen parents and girlfriends do it as well.

So the question is: how was Danny Tiljak cheating?

I'm not a particularly big Dynasty fan, nor do I even really care much about American Pro Paintball. I simply think this thread and that video are purposefully inflammatory for the sake of being inflammatory. Trouble seems to find Tyger wherever he goes, which makes it sort of apparent to me that he's far different from a whistleblower. His actions are more like that of a drama-queen - he's always looking for a fight. This is just like his old threads about cheating, ramping, etc - meant to stir controversy.

[Shane-O-Mac]

Tyger:

You wanna be a "Crusader"? Ok, lets say you are really concerned with the sports condition. How about showing some POSITIVE footage? You, or someone else, posted that he was using a BBD later on right? Well how about filming that and putting a POSITIVE spin on your video? How about after the game, you went and discussed the use of a BBD with him and got some REAL footage with a pro player, maybe he would even admit his mistake, and attempt to help you out. Or film the ref saying that a swab is ok, and why they dont make them use the proper BBD? If you are a journalist, then maybe try the UNBIASED route, or do you want your videos to be the "National Enquirer" of paintball?

Now, the reason alot of people react the way they do to you and your posts, is that in MANY peoples opinions/views, you are being a hypocrictical drama queen on a crusade! And IMHO thats the way I see it also. Realize that criticism ISNT always a personal attack. For quite awhile now, every post that has ANY critical words in it, you immediatley attack and/or defend. You let everything get to a personal level, and you attack like a cat backed into a corner(pun intended). How about you step back, take a trip out of your own brain and see that maybe your opinion/ideals may not agree with everyones? Are you so passionate about paintball, that it hurts to have someone not agree with you? I can almost see a Don Quixote personality here. Are you so interested in tilting at windmills, that you are forgeting the big picture? You're in posesion of a powerfull device that could do great things, think about what I am saying, PLEASE.


Tyger, do you enjoy paintball anymore? Do you? how about promoting how much FUN paintball is? How about curbing your anger more, be the ambassador that you seem to wanna be. I could never be an ambassador of attitude or rules compliance. I realize that and TRY and curb that side of myself, but it does come out sometimes. Realize that you may overreact, or react too strongly, which makes it harder for people to take you seriously. I have seen you carry a bad attitude on the field, because you felt justified that the other player/players were chaeting or carrying a bad attitude. Thats the reason some consider you hypocritical. If you're gonna make a stand, then you MUST follow your own ideals of the way it should be. My personal opinion is that you should get off your soap box, quit bringing up anything about your "Fame", nobody wants to hear ANYTHING about how you think your fame has to do with ANYTHING at all. Get over yourself. If you rethink your attitude and direction, you could do the things you are setting out to do.

Also, did you stop to think that covertly filming, may make things bad for the sport? You must realize that there will always be doubters to the purity of the video. Many will think that you are putting a spin on it for personal reasons, or that you left out important footage so that you skew the overall result, to follow your "Crusade"? Remember there are TWO sides to the story. Show them both. Also, the morals of hidden video and the possible ramifications are of great importance. How about the fact that many people do not want to be filmed and published in video, on the web. What thought have you put into that? Have you gotten releases for them after shooting? What about the fact that once word gets out about your hidden video, NO field is going to want to let you play there? Mistakes can be made and you have the power to show them in a negative light and hurt someones business. What is your thought about that? Are you going for the "Geraldo" style journalism, or do you want to be known for factual and fair journalism? If you're really going for the hardcore type "Guerilla" crusade, be honest and tell someone who doesnt agree that. Tell them, "Hey this is my thing, dont like it, pack your toys and leave". Dont try and defend the video or even explain it, let it stand for itself, no explaination needed. And again SHOW BOTH SIDES of the freaking story.

For everyones sake, be a positive influence or none at all.

Shane Kinzel aka Shane-O
(real name used for govermental reasons also....lol)

Edit: Excuse my ignorance, I hadnt checked out the other videos, so some of the above was said before I had all the facts myself. D'oh! Just wanted to add, when you are faced with the issue such as Tiljack, give the accused a chance make a statement or an apology. Try to put a positive spin on a bad situation.

[Shane-O-Mac]

Upon further review of the video, I see a few problems.

One:
you call Tiljack a "liar" right? How about the remark from you? I'm just here to play. WRONG! And when confronted by a Ref, you done deny, but you dont admit you are wearing a camera. Thats as good as lying in my book.

Two: No where in the video does it show you actually tell a ref about proper BBDS being used. And it doesnt show any mention to the manager on duty, or owner. When making accusations, your word is not golden. prove your claims with footage.

Three:
You shot a guy in the hopper and advanced on him WHILE being paint checked. 'Nuff said.

Four:
Again did you consider the harm it could do to the paintball field? The paintball business is not in good shape, do you think that burning a field in video form, will HELP the industry? Or do you not care as much as you want people to believe?

Five: Is the clwn telling the last guy your coming all that bad? Is it really? So freaking what, he told him you were coming, did he eliminate everyone else, and "Win"? When you heard the clown say that, maybe you shoulda just played with it, made it work to your advantage

Six: Who cares if he doesnt want to let people on to who he is? Really, what harm is in that? You even said he didnt cheat, so why worry him about him wanting to be somewhat anonymous. And why didnt you talk to him on camera? any good reason not to? Geez, whatta PSA (Public Service Anouncement) that coulda been for your video series.

This video looks to be a vendetta against a single player, and that particular field. It does more harm than good. To you and as well as anyone else. And it makes you look bad IMHO.

Shane-O

[Lohman446]

Three:
You shot a guy in the hopper and advanced on him WHILE being paint checked. 'Nuff said.


I mentioned that earlier, and this is my opinion on it. Tyger went looking for controversy... why did he advance to that bunker? It wasn't to use it for cover as he actually went past it towards the "neutral" player. I have a feeling had that person been called clean with a smudge on his hopper there would have been a Tygeress blow up right then and there with a new focus. Look in the beginning when Tyger is talking in his car - what did he go to get?

I hear complaints that Tyger is "just playing" and all this bad stuff happens to him. I don't buy it anymore, and I have a video of why I don't. Frankly, if I was trying to start a physical fight, I would very much use the words Tyger did. Off field coaching... is it Tygers place to try to single out an individual for it or is the field staffs to "remind" people of the rules. You don't know that the people on the sides were players. How often does a parent, friend, girlfriend coach from the sidelines and have to be reminded of the rules? When I play mixed groups I have, often, asked the sidelines if a move I intend to make is against an experienced player or a newer player. Perhaps if you showed up with a pump I would offer you the same courtesy?

I still think, that you went looking for a good controversial video, looking for cheating, and when you found it were happy with it. I think you looked for an "in your face" controversy, and I think you look for them more than not. I reiterate this point... if I was looking for a physical fight with someone, I would act much the same way you did in the video. Frankly, I'm surprised you did not find it.

[Crazy]

Personally I think that douchebag behind him was probably telling him throughout the day. I like how the little fifteenyearold mexican with the mustache things he's all big.

You talk like that to the wrong person, your gonna get jumped.


Maybe you should watch the video again, the so called "ittle fifteenyearold mexican" is not fifteen at all... and is at least 6' 2" and 230+. Is he gonna get jumped by a group of whiney recballers such as tyger?

[68magOwner]

seriously, the "cheating" that went on was NOT a big deal, and i didnt like tyger acting like an elitest cockwad throughout the whole thing either. Its paintball, go play, have fun, more often than not, your going to get cheated against, big deal, you should be able to deal with it in a non-contraversial matter and not be a big baby about it.

[chefstevie]

tyger needs to chill...yeah it was wrong but i mean its no likt the dynasty player is gonna let u shoot him up. its just a game...

[bentothejam1n]

this makes me really wish I played with some pumps instead of me vs. ions :cry: fps 4 that is

[phantomhitman]

And when I film cheaters on the woods fields, they will be on the web in 48 hours or so. At Paintball Sams, after I took the camera off for the day, a player on my team wiped a hit in front of me. I was torqued off that I missed that shot, as I would have put it in online for you to see.

Again, I'm an equal opportunity bastard. Right now it's winter, so I'm limited from filming outdoor games. But once Spring comes back, I'm SURE I'll catch my share of jerks in the woods. When I do, you'll see it.

That is all I ask. From my standpoint you have targeted the tourney bastards for quite a while, I would enjoy seeing the other bastards of the sport as well. Carry on :hail:

[Albinonewt]

Not needed comments from an issue well past it's sell by date...do not repeat

[MarkM]

My personal take on this is a little mixed. the thread title I have looked at the title a few times and considered changing it but any change would gain accustations of dilution, that said the thread title is a bit strong. Incidently the thread wasn't named by Tyger, although the video was made by him.
Take a Camera to a field and with it hidden you will see stuff.
I would say the same thing when asked about being in tournament play, as I wouldn't want to get into it with someone I didn't know (or at that time didn't want to know)

The player didn't cheat per se, he did by reacting but then with refs as lax as these ones seem to be they wouldn't have made the call to remove him from play. in the great tradition of pantomime "he's behind you"..who wouldn't react?

Barrel Blocking devices, yes a no no but again with the refs as lax as they appear to be what the hell will be done.

When under previous management this field had a lawsuit against them that they lost...poorly maintained equipment was at fault not the player doing something unsafe. But then is it truely under new management? I have played at this field and I found it good but then it was a tournament event when I was there.

Tyger does have some agenda...he was looking to find cheating (in any form) and found it, so that's it he found elements that were bad so story over.

The slights against Tyger for his perceived status etc....who is making those claims? The other people posting in this thread not Tyger! So all of you including Tyger Chill out!!

Much as I would love to close this thread I feel it needs to die a natural death not an enforced one.

[NinjaoftheNight79]

I wanna ask all of you a serious question. How many of you personally talk to this "Lying Idiot" Tyger very much? How many of you talk to him? For the record, I have, and I have learned a lot from him. A lot of you are making him seem like all his videos are about catching cheaters. For those of you who havn't noticed, he did that because he has seen a lot of cheating. He sees it all over. Not just in tourney ball players and speedballers. For the sake of all holy he is the one thats tired of recball players saying only speedballers cheat. Maybe if a few more of you would get to know the guy.

Rob "Tyger" Rubin is a great guy, and many of you should be ashamed. All of WebDog Radio is great. Look at his tip clips. All of them helping people toward a better, more skilled game of paintball. They also give saftey tips and such. Also, his other FPS series, which he just started, to show people what a game is like. I am sorry, but those of you who say Tyger lies and edits his videos are pathetic. Get some glasses and a hearing aid, your are almost beyond help.

While I dont think Danny cheated personally (in my own educated opinion), we dont know that, and few do. Even if he did we would never find out. What he does do is press some saftey issues, which he has the right to do. We all do. Its our saftey, and if your not concerned of your sorry, I am very sorry to hear that.

I really think all of you should get to know this guy before you start talking crap to him. He never started this thread, and I blame this on the one who did. It was an obvious flamefest waiting to happen. Tyger never wanted a bunch of publicity over it, he wanted to make a video where he caught some people doing bad things on camera to prove that people cheat. I can almost guarantee that he will film a scenario or woodsball game without telling people, and show his results there too.

Tyger is the guy who runs Web Dog Radio. He knows a lot more about paintball than many. He is a very good player, and I think many of you owe him an apology.

[Lohman446]

I wanna ask all of you a serious question. How many of you personally talk to this "Lying Idiot" Tyger very much? How many of you talk to him?

Umm... aside from Newt who has attacked Tyger personally. And Newt has plenty of reason. Many of us have questioned the purpose of the video, Tygers attitude in it, and other factors, but I doubt many of us have referred to him as a "lying idiot". If your going to defend a friend, defend him from what is actually being said, not your overactive imagination. I think a lot of us prefaced a post or two with respect, or no disrespect intended, but... well I think many of us wonder the agenda.

[NinjaoftheNight79]

Umm... aside from Newt who has attacked Tyger personally. And Newt has plenty of reason. Many of us have questioned the purpose of the video, Tygers attitude in it, and other factors, but I doubt many of us have referred to him as a "lying idiot". If your going to defend a friend, defend him from what is actually being said, not your overactive imagination. I think a lot of us prefaced a post or two with respect, or no disrespect intended, but... well I think many of us wonder the agenda.

Ok, we can agree on that. I guess while not everyone called him one of the names, and nobody called him both, I think I should rephrase that. How many of you have actually got to know this person, who some of you speak of as though he was an insignifigant fool?

[MarkM]

I wanna ask all of you a serious question. How many of you personally talk to this "Lying Idiot" Tyger very much? How many of you talk to him? For the record, I have, and I have learned a lot from him. A lot of you are making him seem like all his videos are about catching cheaters. For those of you who havn't noticed, he did that because he has seen a lot of cheating. He sees it all over. Not just in tourney ball players and speedballers. For the sake of all holy he is the one thats tired of recball players saying only speedballers cheat. Maybe if a few more of you would get to know the guy.

Rob "Tyger" Rubin is a great guy, and many of you should be ashamed. All of WebDog Radio is great. Look at his tip clips. All of them helping people toward a better, more skilled game of paintball. They also give saftey tips and such. Also, his other FPS series, which he just started, to show people what a game is like. I am sorry, but those of you who say Tyger lies and edits his videos are pathetic. Get some glasses and a hearing aid, your are almost beyond help.

While I dont think Danny cheated personally (in my own educated opinion), we dont know that, and few do. Even if he did we would never find out. What he does do is press some saftey issues, which he has the right to do. We all do. Its our saftey, and if your not concerned of your sorry, I am very sorry to hear that.

I really think all of you should get to know this guy before you start talking crap to him. He never started this thread, and I blame this on the one who did. It was an obvious flamefest waiting to happen. Tyger never wanted a bunch of publicity over it, he wanted to make a video where he caught some people doing bad things on camera to prove that people cheat. I can almost guarantee that he will film a scenario or woodsball game without telling people, and show his results there too.

Tyger is the guy who runs Web Dog Radio. He knows a lot more about paintball than many. He is a very good player, and I think many of you owe him an apology.

I think you need to take the advice in my last reply and chill a little bit yourself.
I have both met and spoken with Rob on several occaisions. I have told him exactly what I thought of his videos (the training type ones) and he both agreed with what I was saying and disagreed both in a nice way and we both agreed to disagree....confusing that sentence but that's how it was.

Of course Rob wanted publicity for his action, if not then why pst them on the net for all to see? There is NO answer to this as it is a simple matter of facts as can be quite clearly seen from previous and current Webdog Radio stuff...if you don't want dialog or anything else you don't post it on the net.

The player reacting to outside verbal warnings IS cheating..it sucks to get removed from play like that but it is cheating by association (reacting). However the refs didn't remove the player.
The lack of barrel sock IS an infringment that should have been dealt with by the field management and Tyger had every right to bring it up, more so with the particular field due to the historical events that had happened at this venue before, though in this case if an accident had happened the player would have been liable since he had chosen to ignore the standing field rules.

[Albinonewt]

Not needed comments from an issue well past it's sell by date...do not repeat


Considering all the "Tyger's a great guy posts" I think this bears relevance: Also, since Tyger is going after a pro-player I think his hypocrisy is pretty relevant.



Nothing here now


Go ahead and ban me Mark. I'd love to see me get banned for reposting something that the original poster didn't get in trouble for...

[Lohman446]

Ok, we can agree on that. I guess while not everyone called him one of the names, and nobody called him both, I think I should rephrase that. How many of you have actually got to know this person, who some of you speak of as though he was an insignifigant fool?

I judged him by the actions I saw. The actions he chose to put online. Its not like I'm judging him by footage that was edited in a way to make him look worse than he was. And I am only judging him for these acts. Most of us have reserved judgement beyond that. Thats like saying you or he does not know the guy behind the net, so you are out of place for calling his actions...

[thecavemankevin]

Considering all the "Tyger's a great guy posts" I think this bears relevance: Also, since Tyger is going after a pro-player I think his hypocrisy is pretty relevant.



Go ahead and ban me Mark. I'd love to see me get banned for reposting something that the original poster didn't get in trouble for...

i too feel that this older post bears relavence in this thread.

[Shane-O-Mac]

Mark M:

I somewhat agree with your last post. BUT do you think that Tiljack deserves the moniker and treatment the vides gives him? I feel the whole "Liar" thing is way too much and uncalled for. That is really my take on it.

Albinonewt,

Sorry, your posts do not do anything for this thread. Your personal issues are with him and shouldnt be brought in here, to this thread. IMHO, Tyger has done some good things with webdog and other things. I dont agree with many of his views or actions, I.E. this video. your posts in this thread are not a discussion of the video is it? then take it to Pm's or let it be, Please.

Look the video COULD have been made better. it isnt clear and it APPEARS to be vindictive, but realize that that is an opinion. Some people think that the video is good and well made. You see what I am saying? It is an OPINION, take it as that. we all wont agree, but does EVERYONE always agree? Nope thats why we have HOLY wars, and such. But this isnt a war, it is a forum that used to be able to have intellegent threads wihtout resorting to PBN flames and other crap.

Alot of people on this forum board need to grow up and try to post like thoughtfull, intellegent humans. Not sniveling, whining, finger pointing kids. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and everyone, including Tyger, needs to realize that.

Shane-O

[Albinonewt]

Mark M:
Albinonewt,

Sorry, your posts do not do anything for this thread. Your personal issues are with him and shouldnt be brought in here, to this thread. IMHO, Tyger has done some good things with webdog and other things. I dont agree with many of his views or actions, I.E. this video. your posts in this thread are not a discussion of the video is it? then take it to Pm's or let it be, Please.


I've explained exactly what the relevance is AND any personal issues I may have have nothing to do with my repost of his own words. No matter how I feel about him his words are his words and they stand on their own.

[Beemer]

I've explained exactly what the relevance is AND any personal issues I may have have nothing to do with my repost of his own words. No matter how I feel about him his words are his words and they stand on their own.

Shane-O and MarkM are right. Your post is irrelevant to this thread. To repost a Mod edit shows you arent the shiniest dime in the pile. Nice Deadeye brought this to your attention so you could post OLD trash after four and a half months of no posts. Welcome back. You were always such a Perfect poster youself.[not]

[SCpoloRicker]

I'd love to see me get banned for reposting something that the original poster didn't get in trouble for...
..

ill hurt u physically, ill hurt u lyically
cuz this fight already done
cuz son i already done won
better get up off the ground and ask some 1

ill play u like a pawn
and when im done..poof ur gone
so go ahead and bring it on

im comin from the west coast
better believe im gonna brag and boast
cuz one wrong move and ur toast

[thecavemankevin]

..


thank you for turning PBN mode on :tard:

[MarkM]

Considering all the "Tyger's a great guy posts" I think this bears relevance: Also, since Tyger is going after a pro-player I think his hypocrisy is pretty relevant.



Go ahead and ban me Mark. I'd love to see me get banned for reposting something that the original poster didn't get in trouble for...


Ok as you asked so nicely, plus reposting something I had already editted, something which had no relevence to the subject in hand and something I publically warned you not to repeat. It wasn't simply a repost you also included your own comments which the edit was enough as a punishment (as far as I was concerned) but as you seem so intent on wanting a reaction.

The issue you are complaining about is something well in the past and that I was not party to, my take on this subject is limited to this thread and it's subject matter nothing else, no hidden agenda's. Two wrongs may not make a right nor can i deal with something that was overlooked or not dealt with prior to my becoming a mod. In this case you went against part of the mod team when expressly warned not to.

[MarkM]

Mark M:

I somewhat agree with your last post. BUT do you think that Tiljack deserves the moniker and treatment the vides gives him? I feel the whole "Liar" thing is way too much and uncalled for. That is really my take on it.

Shane-O

That's the part that makes for me having mixed feelings since it boils down to the answer of "yes" or "no" not "ah but because", harsh but well there it is.

[punkncat]

Mark....I know you have already posted your desire to see this thread die a natural death, but as it is reluctant to do so and has certainly passed its useful shelf life.....

kill it..kill it!

[Lohman446]

Oh no... theres debate on AO. We don't all agree. Rather than dealing with individual posters that get out of hand, lets just kill the whole debate.

:rolleyes:

[punkncat]

Oh no... theres debate on AO. We don't all agree. Rather than dealing with individual posters that get out of hand, lets just kill the whole debate.

:rolleyes:


Its not about the debate. Its about the fact that we have seen pages and pages of the same things being said and is now resulting in people just getting nasty and banned. Thats not a debate. Its degraded beyond that.

What intelligent observations could be made to further this thread? I say none.

[SCpoloRicker]

I don't know. I posted over at the bar that I thought this was one of the better debates lately.

Theres been some name-calling, but it feels like theres a cosensus/agree-to-disagree about a few key issues.

[Shane-O-Mac]

We are all gonna have to Agree to Disagree. The problem is we all have diferent views, and most people are not willing to change their view (no matter how persuasive/true the argument is) or acknowledge the POSSIBILITY that we can both be right. Tyger is guilty of this himself. He and I have been debating this video and how it is viewed by the mass public, in Pm's. My conclussion is that Tyger is not will to compromise or cave in and agree to anything other than his view/opinion. Which is OK in all honesty, as long as Tyger can admit that others may see it differently and accept that, that doesnt make anyone right or wrong. This thread has degraded to 'Nation 'tudes and stupidity. I am outta this one from this point on. And I say lock it up and throw away the key.............

Shane-O

p.s. anyone wants a mature, adult debate about anything, p.m me........

[SummaryJudgement]

I like....pie...

[RusskiX]

I like....pie...

I lol'd :rofl:

Thanks for injecting some excellent comedic timing into the rancor. :dance:

[mobsterboy]

can we lock this...
its inevitable that cheating is going on in any sport. We dont need 100 something random crappy posts on who what where why how, morally right, indecently wrong, pie is really good.


on a side note, i dont keep up with paintball teams, because its really not necessary, i play for fun, whether it be woods ball or tourney ball. Should I know who the H3ll Dan Tiljack is? It sounds like a degrading 5th grader namecalling title...

[gmp211]

Dang, This thing is still here?

LOL

Well, Glad he got a good discussion out of it.

[hitech]

If the original poster no longer thinks he cheated, then in all fairness "he" should change the title (or ask a mod to do it). I don't think he (Dan) did anything wrong. He certainly did not cheat, IMO.

:cheers:

[SCpoloRicker]

If the original poster no longer thinks he cheated, then in all fairness "he" should change the title (or ask a mod to do it). I don't think he (Dan) did anything wrong. He certainly did not cheat, IMO.

:cheers:

Reasonable, if the thread deserves to continue. Personally, I think you've got a good idea.

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

tyger you think that's bad? check it out thursday nights :)

[Rudz]

saw em practicing today at sc village..even saw danny t walk by a couple times...i so wanted to ask him about this video..but i had better things to do...

[1stdeadeye]

Old threats...

Remember that Past Performance is an indicator of future behaviors.

The ban is out of place. Of course Newt should not have asked for it either.

[chemical x]

simply put. I would have done the same as tyger. I know i've done it before.

I will help do anything I can to stop cheating in paintball. I did not put 16 years into a game only to let the so called idols trash it for me and further generations of players.

[shartley]

simply put. I would have done the same as tyger. I know i've done it before.

I will help do anything I can to stop cheating in paintball. I did not put 16 years into a game only to let the so called idols trash it for me and further generations of players.
Plenty of us do good things for the sport each time we go to a field, but don’t bring a hidden camera or go looking for trouble. Tyger clearly went out of his way to confront people after events simply for the footage. When you see a problem or an issue you take care of it on the spot, and if you don’t, in favor of footage or trying to blow a spark into a roaring fire, I have to question the actual intent.

Would I have confronted the player who was coaching from the dead box? Sure. Would I then confront him AGAIN later? NO. Why? Because the second confrontation was for confrontation’s sake only. Simply put it only had footage value, but no real value concerning the game or protecting the game.

Would I have asked the Ref for a clarification of the BBD rules if I truly didn’t know them? Sure. But I would then have pointed out the player who was not following the rules, not simply keep asking the Ref time and again what the rules were. One action helps the sport and players, the other is simply for video footage.

Would I have noticed the Ref smoking on the field and that it was against Park rules? Absolutely. But then I would have either approached that staff member personally or went to someone who was clearly in a supervisory position and told them. One is to correct a problem, the other is to FILM a problem for video footage only.

And would I have approached a “pro” player off the field and asked them if they played “tournaments” or not? No. Why bother? What would it matter? Oh yeah, it makes for more video footage.

So you are saying that you would do the same thing as Tyger did? Really? You would make a tape that actually did more harm to the sport (IMHO) than any good some folks are claiming it was intended to do? You would not have addressed each issue as they came and then let them go? You would have actually NOT taken care of issues as you saw them in favor of making a hidden camera video pointing them out and even exaggerating some of them?

Please don’t confuse confronting issues with what was shown by that video.