K2 having some issues with Paintball

[StygShore]

Found this interesting article when I was looking for information on production of the Pneumag from from PTP

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20051012/news_1b12kto.html

Does anyone know all the companies that K2 has purchased? I know they own JT/Brass Eagle, Worr Game.... anyone else?


Styg

[StygShore]

actually I was curious as to what other paintball companies they own or are part of.

by the sounds of it they own the rights to some of PTPs patents also... are they the "interested party" that tippmann was speaking of last year as well?

Just wondering how big a piece of the paintball pie K2 has.

Styg




Here is a short list from hoovers.com:

"Why K2? Because the California-based company makes skis (#1 in North America with its K2 and Olin brands) as well as a top-selling line of fishing rods and reels (Shakespeare). Other sporting goods by K2 include lifejackets (Stearns), apparel (Planet Earth), snowboards (5150, K2, Liquid, Morrow, Ride), mountain bikes, in-line skates, sports apparel, casual wear (Hilton), and outdoor gear (Dana Designs backpacks). K2's industrial products include marine radio antennas and monofilament lines (used for fishing and weed-whacking). K2 sells its products worldwide, with Wal-Mart accounting for 16% of sales. The company owns snowboard equipment and apparel maker Ride and its Liquid brand."

A few other subsidiaries:

* Brass Eagle, LLC
* K2 Licensing & Promotions, Inc.
* Rawlings Sporting Goods Company

[Cow hunter]

if k2 drops PTP, might they drop their patents?

[Cow hunter]

The most interesting part of that article:

"Alan Robinson, an analyst with Delafield Hambrecht, said it is unclear whether paintball will be the earnings engine many had predicted.

"People are realizing that paintball – instead of being the next big extreme sport – may be just a fad," he said.

Last year, 9.64 million people in the U.S. played paintball at least once, down 2 percent from 9.84 million in 2003, based on the Sporting Goods Manufacturers Association's Web site.

"A lot of these paintball companies were caught by surprise when the sport's popularity plateaued," said Chris Raehl, president of the National Collegiate Paintball Association in Chippewa Falls, Wis.

With the slowing of technical improvements in paintball guns, or markers, players no longer buy new equipment annually, Raehl said."

but really, it might have several factors including airsoft as competition, cost of day of play, maybe people havent heard of it as much, and ndameless others im sure......

[RRfireblade]

Paintball has peaked as far as I can tell.

With liability getting more demanding , personal injury growth, space constraints , land costs and taxes going up everywhere not to mention operating costs especially on small business paintball can and will only get so big on a commercial level.

I believe we're real close to that right now. Here in Florida , fields are closing faster than they can open up...many of which are older established fields that just can't cut it anymore. You can't make money on paint and don't even think about retail on a local level anymore thanks to www.GetItFastAndBelowCost.com


Expect to see local "outlaw" ball making a huge come back....

[BigEvil]

Expect to see local "outlaw" ball making a huge come back....


Way ahead of ya there Jay :spit_take

[GT]

The most interesting part of that article:

"Alan Robinson, an analyst with Delafield Hambrecht, said it is unclear whether paintball will be the earnings engine many had predicted.

"People are realizing that paintball – instead of being the next big extreme sport – may be just a fad," he said.

Last year, 9.64 million people in the U.S. played paintball at least once, down 2 percent from 9.84 million in 2003, based on the Sporting Goods Manufacturers Association's Web site.

"A lot of these paintball companies were caught by surprise when the sport's popularity plateaued," said Chris Raehl, president of the National Collegiate Paintball Association in Chippewa Falls, Wis.

With the slowing of technical improvements in paintball guns, or markers, players no longer buy new equipment annually, Raehl said."


You know, before I saw your post I was going to drop that same set of text. Amazing, does AO really need me???? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[StygShore]

Yeah... I just keep waiting to get that call every spring saying " Nope ya don't need to show up, we're not opening the field this year...."

So many factors insurance, the land we rent could EASILY be sold for more profitable ventures, gettign return players, location, even getting a pack of regular walk ons that can afford to paly each week has become near impossible even with the dicounts we offer them.


I wonder why K2 waited so long to get into the paintball game, did it take the big corporate guys this long to notice our little "fad"?


Styg

[sol tank]

i know K2 bought out a lot of the Skating,skiing,biking,paintballing, fishing and other industries.
They own Liquid,fifty one fifty,debeer,Hawk shoes,morrow boards,dana designs,ride boards,Bras eagle,Viewloader,JT,WGP, Ex officio, Earth Products, Adio, Marmot, Sterns, SHakespeare, Rawlings, Worth and a few more.

[Beemer]

Amazing, does AO really need me???? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

you could ask does AO really want you :ninja: :spit_take :cheers:

[Pyrate Jim]

Only a corporation looking at 120-day profit margins would call a game that's been around for 24 years a "fad"

[warbeak2099]

Maybe if they weren't cutting costs and were allowing BE, Viewloader, etc. to improve the quality of their products, they'd sell more. I think they don't realize that the money to be made is not from the Wal Mart buyers. Even the rec players who only play a couple times a year where I live don't buy their gear at evilmart. They go to the pro shop. What'd they expect, with the exception of WGP, K2 bought out crappy brands that have been losing sales for a while now.

[Resurection]

From the October 2005 (Issue 32) issue of Facefull talking about the major business players of the industry:

K2 bought Brass Eagle, which had already bought Viewloader and JT. K2 is also in kahoots with WGP.

Also:

NPS
Conglomerates: Empire
Distributes: Diablo, Game Face, Draxxus, V-Force, Bob Long, 32 Degrees, Reloader
Owns: Paintball2Xtremes Mag & Television, 888paintball.com, 800paintball.com

Procaps
Conglomerates: VFORCE, Draxxus, Game Face Paintball (joint venture with Crossman Corp), DXS, Gelcell, Progell Inc.

Tippman
Makes markers

DYE
Range of products + Proto

Smart Parts
Range of products

Adrenaline Games
Sup' Airball, Facefull mag

PMI
Piranha, RPS, Pure Energy, Extreme Rage

Kingman
Spyder, Raven, Java

ICD
Range of Products (markers)

WDP
Range of products (Angel, etc)

Nelson Technologies Inc
Range of paintball products (Anarchy, Nelspot, etc.) and clothing

[Arstron]

I hear that quiet a few paintball fields and shops are closing down and around me paintball had died down quite a bit. This last year however, paintball has picked up quite a bit. Yesterday a lone we had 50 players at my local field. That is a pretty good turn out considering the size (2 speedball and 1 woods course). In my area, paintball has picked up considerably this past year.

[shartley]

Yes many fields are closing. But be honest folks, that has ALWAYS been the case from the beginning. It had nothing to do with paintball dying or being a “fad” it had to do with bad business practices. The good fields in my area have lasted all along while many pop up and disappear all around them.

Stores open and then close as well. In my area I give a paintball store ONE year before it closes… why? Because that has been the case all along.

Also keep in mind that most businesses FAIL (in any industry). Paintball should be different though?

I find it funny how not making “projected” sales spells doom and gloom, while the companies still are making a good profit. I find it funny how the sport is a “fad” when their growth rate plateaus out but does not die or even stop. I guess auto sales indicate that driving cars is a fad as well when the industry has a lean year.

I think the bigger companies saw easy money in a booming sport. They then tried to take advantage of that. But now they act surprised that once they saturate the market with products that they don’t see the sales they used to see. They were producing and selling at faster rates than the sport could handle over an extended period of time. The fault in my opinion is not with the sport or players, but with companies that got greedy and didn’t want to pace themselves.

The sport is fine. It isn’t going anywhere. :headbang:

[WARPED1]

if k2 drops PTP, might they drop their patents?
When the hell did K2 buy PTP?!

[GT]

you could ask does AO really want you :ninja: :spit_take :cheers:

Loved by few, hated by millions. :ninja:

Would AO be that much fun if everyone agreed? Lest you forget the drama of years past? :rolleyes:

[StygShore]

I dont think they bought PTP, but there is some kind of VL partnership going on there now.
So I am sure they are associated. In addition, I have seen throughout the web that K2 owns the patent to the Pnuemag now, so they must have bought up some of PTP's "intellectual properties"

But, like I said, I read it through the web, so until someone from PTP (or semi-formerly with them - JAY! ) makes the statement, I'll take it with a grain of salt.

PTP has recently re-opened their "pro-shop" for custom work as well, so maybe the pockets got deeper with a joining with K2? They have not posted anything in their news section on the website, but they update so infrequently on most areas there, I never know what is going on with them.


Styg



When the hell did K2 buy PTP?!

[WARPED1]

Oh, thanks Styg, I'm usually on top of industry news, thought I fell asleep. :) I love PTP Micro E's.

[StygShore]

Not sure we will see any more micro-E's from them any time soon though. They have been saying there would be a new design for at least 4 years now....and thus far... nothing

Styg




Oh, thanks Styg, I'm usually on top of industry news, thought I fell asleep. :) I love PTP Micro E's.