Whats the most over rated gun?

[DarkMag722]

What is the most over-rated gun? Explain if you want. :dance:

[warbeak2099]

Shockers. There are better guns for the same price if not less.

[BD_Paintball]

i love when noobs say "omg you have an Angel, those are like the best guns ever".

[neppo1345]

You need to add the NERVE...

But since it's not on there...I went with the Angel

[buzzboy]

I don't know why people think shockers are overrated. From what I have seen, I shot a stock 04 vision shocker and a stock DM5, the Shocker shot a lot better. The eyes on the DM were better but that was about it. It was louder(barely but still), rougher(and better taken care of) and the trigger was a lot smoother, crisper, lighter, shorter and faster(the DM had a great trigger job and the shocker was on stock settings. This is enough for me.

[Automaggot68]

Stop making polls, it's annoying.

[ramennoodles]

Timmy's. They are spyder's with better milling (don't talk to me about facts, that's how I wanna feel).

[tyrion2323]

Timmy's. They are spyder's with better milling (don't talk to me about facts, that's how I wanna feel).
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[camilion705]

Shocker gets my vote. Shoots fast like all the rest. Has all the same features as the rest. And has crappy anno and is unreliable. Their popularity is due to hype... and maybe good marketing... ;)

Angel - Every one I have shot, shot very nicely. (Super hyped up back in the day, not so much now)
Timmy - I have used a Dark Timmy and it was impressive (Was super hyped, now just known as great markers)
DM - One of the smoothest guns ever (What are people everywhere saying? If you have 600 buy a Dm4? Why? Because its an excellent gun)

[Teamslayer76]

You need to add the NERVE...

But since it's not on there...I went with the Angel

What a joke. The Nerve is a high quality gun.

I voted angel, every new player or even people who don't know or even play paintball think angels are the best. I think this was brought up before. :cool:

[slade]

a lot of those are overrated to some extent.

but wheres e-mags? theyre overrated on AO.

[Phantom_Mag]

Nothing but DM problems round these parts.

[Lohman446]

What a joke. The Nerve is a high quality gun.

I voted angel, every new player or even people who don't know or even play paintball think angels are the best. I think this was brought up before. :cool:

Being overrated does not mean something is not high quality. Many of the markers up there are high quality. Not a mutually exclusive thing...

[firebanex]

Everything that uses a battery is over rated.

[slade]

Everything that uses a battery is over rated.
that reminds me... phantoms are overrated :ninja:

[snoopay700]

that reminds me... phantoms are overrated :ninja:
Haha, not so much, because they are great pump guns, just expensive, and i hope to own one some day.

[Lohman446]

Haha, not so much, because they are great pump guns, just expensive, and i hope to own one some day.

The idea that the phantom is overrated has merit to it. When I used to pull mine out everyone got the "so accurate" idea... it was all the gun :rolleyes: I had one person flat out tell me that the phantom was the most accurate marker ever made.

[snoopay700]

The idea that the phantom is overrated has merit to it. When I used to pull mine out everyone got the "so accurate" idea... it was all the gun :rolleyes: I had one person flat out tell me that the phantom was the most accurate marker ever made.
Yeah i know, it does have merit to it, but you have to admit, they're damn good markers. Anyway, they're overrated yes, but still probably the best stock class gun (well the only one i'd use)

[Jackel411]

Angels hands down.. the cost a ton of money , for some nonsensical functions that youll never use. That and in its price point it is one of the heavier , bigger guns.

Although they shoot nice.. not 1500 bucks nice though. I had an Ir3 fly that I bought new and it never worked right at all even with going to an angel tech to get looked at. The thing was an absolute dog. And I see it happening again to a friends a4 fly

[magman007]

Shocker. Spooler with no LPR, why would you even create that?

[DarkMag722]

i love when noobs say "omg you have an Angel, those are like the best guns ever".
Hellz Ya I say we smack everyone who says it even if they dont no paintball :D

[DarkMag722]

a lot of those are overrated to some extent.

but wheres e-mags? theyre overrated on AO.
Hey Hey hey hey stfu

[punkncat]

The idea that the phantom is overrated has merit to it. When I used to pull mine out everyone got the "so accurate" idea... it was all the gun :rolleyes: I had one person flat out tell me that the phantom was the most accurate marker ever made.


That can't be....the cocker and sniper pumps hold that award. We all know cockers are more accurate and shoot farther than any other marker.....


I voted Shocker. Its a decent marker, but well overpriced with an inflated used price as well. Its using eyes that should have been upgraded to break beams years ago. Requires much attention and breaks quite often.

[snoopay700]

That can't be....the cocker and sniper pumps hold that award. We all know cockers are more accurate and shoot farther than any other marker.....
I sure as hell hope you're joking.

[slade]

I sure as hell hope you're joking.
:confused:

everyone knows cockers shoot farther cause theyre closed bolt.

[AGDlover]

Timmys because they're just spyders witha a new board and lower OP.

[punkncat]

I sure as hell hope you're joking.


Why would I be joking.....I quote...

"

everyone knows cockers shoot farther cause theyre closed bolt.
Today 05:11 PM"

[snoopay700]

:confused:

everyone knows cockers shoot farther cause theyre closed bolt.
Oh my god, i'm just not even going to try.

[slade]

Oh my god, i'm just not even going to try.
what?

you should see me with my cocker, it shoots lazers!


Timmys because they're just spyders witha a new board and lower OP.
...except for the fact that timmys are electropneumatic and ram driven, have less kick, much better quality control (although im not going to say its great...) they shoot much smoother, have a better frame and internals, and MUCH better trigger... and did i mention quality control?

i dont know why timmys get picked on so much about that, there are a lot of other ram driven poppet valve electropneumatics.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

Shocker. Spooler with no LPR, why would you even create that?

I have heard from various Airsmith's, such as Punisher, that an LPR does nothing for the Shocker. It's not needed.

Most overrated gun- DM series, especially the DM6. Everybody loves it and raves about the "new technology" when it is just a 5 year old design revamped several times.

[snoopay700]

Ok, that whole closed bolt thing makes no sense. Phantoms are closed bolt too, but supposedly cockers are more accurate. The cocker really isn't different than any gun, and accuracy comes from the consistency of the marker and the barrel, how far a shot goes depends on your velocity. My mag, at the same velocity as my friend's cocker, went as far if not further than his cocker, and it was more accurate with the crown point barrel. Each and every gun pushes the ball out of the breech into the barrel, just like the cocker, then releases it's gas to shoot the paintball. The cocker does the same thing, only it loads the ball and shoots it in two actions, where as other guns do it in one. With each and every gun you get blow back after each shot, cockers included, it varies how much, but you do get a bit, mags and cockers have a lot less than others. Now, let's review, each and every gun loads the paintball into the barrel BEFORE releasing it's gas to shoot the paintball, the difference with the cocker is it loads then releases the gas, in two different actions. This makes no sense why they should be any more accurate when all other guns do the same exact thing.

[/hijack]

EDIT: By blowback i mean the air going up the feedneck when the bolt goes back, it's very miniscule in good guns like mags and cockers, and is more prominient in markers like spyders.

[ThePixelGuru]

Gotta say the Angel... Nice markers, but they have such a good rep that they're still overrated.

[Troen]

i voted ego. i think dms have a MUCH nicer feel (4s, 5s, and proto matrix's) and are alot cheaper. i think egos are more of a name, too much bounce we couldnt get rid of on the gun i shot.

[slade]

I have heard from various Airsmith's, such as Punisher, that an LPR does nothing for the Shocker. It's not needed.

Most overrated gun- DM series, especially the DM6. Everybody loves it and raves about the "new technology" when it is just a 5 year old design revamped several times.
matrices arent too overrated. they are nice markers. the DM6 is slightly smaller and has a nice frame, but that definately isnt worth $500+ extra to me.

then again, just about every high end electro is overrated to some extent. and the ion, thats not really high end.


Ok, that whole closed bolt thing makes no sense. Phantoms are closed bolt too, but supposedly cockers are more accurate. The cocker really isn't different than any gun, and accuracy comes from the consistency of the marker and the barrel, how far a shot goes depends on your velocity. My mag, at the same velocity as my friend's cocker, went as far if not further than his cocker, and it was more accurate with the crown point barrel. Each and every gun pushes the ball out of the breech into the barrel, just like the cocker, then releases it's gas to shoot the paintball. The cocker does the same thing, only it loads the ball and shoots it in two actions, where as other guns do it in one. With each and every gun you get blow back after each shot, cockers included, it varies how much, but you do get a bit, mags and cockers have a lot less than others. Now, let's review, each and every gun loads the paintball into the barrel BEFORE releasing it's gas to shoot the paintball, the difference with the cocker is it loads then releases the gas, in two different actions. This makes no sense why they should be any more accurate when all other guns do the same exact thing.

[/hijack]

you may know how markers work, but you sure cant pick up sarcasm. :ninja: :p

/usually the join date and 2k+ posts are a tipoff

[snoopay700]

matrices arent too overrated. they are nice markers. the DM6 is slightly smaller and has a nice frame, but that definately isnt worth $500+ extra to me.

then again, just about every high end electro is overrated to some extent. and the ion, thats not really high end.



you may know how markers work, but you sure cant pick up sarcasm. :ninja: :p

/usually the join date and 2k+ posts are a tipoff
I wasn't responding to only you, and it's hard to tell when someone's sarcastic on a message board, which is why they ususally make it obvious with a smiley. Oh well, i'm just sick of people not using logic when they say that cockers are the most accurate because they're closed bolt.

[Teamslayer76]

Also Timmys arent spyders. While they might be blowbacks, and you can mess with them doesnt mean they are the same. For example the spyder has a mechanically driven ram while the Timmy's have a Air Driven ram.

Another overrated guns are yes, cockers. They "shoot farther and with more accuracy".
Damn those elves... :nono:

[punkncat]

Another overrated guns are yes, cockers. They "shoot farther and with more accuracy".
Damn those elves... :nono:


Sorry bud....AGD has the patent on Elves.....cockers use Gnomes.

[snoopay700]

Sorry bud....AGD has the patent on Elves.....cockers use Gnomes.
Could've sworn it was pixies, or maybe it was sprites...

[slade]

Also Timmys arent spyders. While they might be blowbacks, and you can mess with them doesnt mean they are the same. For example the spyder has a mechanically driven ram while the Timmy's have a Air Driven ram.
umm, timmys arent blowbacks, and spyders dont have rams...

blowbacks use some of the air used in firing to "blow back" the bolt/hammer. timmys have a solenoid that diverts air from the LPR both to fire and recock the marker. thats why its not a blowback or a sear tripper. spyders have a spring push the hammer and bolt forward, and when the valve is opened some of the air is diverted to push the hammer back.

...unless you were joking...

/shrug

[SCpoloRicker]

Ok, that whole closed bolt thing makes no sense. Phantoms are closed bolt too, but supposedly cockers are more accurate. The cocker really isn't different than any gun, and accuracy comes from the consistency of the marker and the barrel, how far a shot goes depends on your velocity. My mag, at the same velocity as my friend's cocker, went as far if not further than his cocker, and it was more accurate with the crown point barrel. Each and every gun pushes the ball out of the breech into the barrel, just like the cocker, then releases it's gas to shoot the paintball. The cocker does the same thing, only it loads the ball and shoots it in two actions, where as other guns do it in one. With each and every gun you get blow back after each shot, cockers included, it varies how much, but you do get a bit, mags and cockers have a lot less than others. Now, let's review, each and every gun loads the paintball into the barrel BEFORE releasing it's gas to shoot the paintball, the difference with the cocker is it loads then releases the gas, in two different actions. This makes no sense why they should be any more accurate when all other guns do the same exact thing.

I work for Closed-Bolt Markers.

So I am really getting a kick out of most of these replies. Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like you know what you are talking about.

But trust me.... You don't.

I think you just want to make yourself sound smart, when in reality you don't know what you are talking about. This is how bad info gets passed around. If you don't know about the topic....Don't make yourself sound like you do.

Cuz some people will believe anything they read.

/jus trollin
//YA RLY

[camilion705]

I work for Closed-Bolt Markers.



Im confused... How do you work for "Closed-Bolt Markers?" Don't take offense or anything, Im just curious.

[SpitFire1299]

a lot of those are overrated to some extent.

but wheres e-mags? theyre overrated on AO.
You do realize this is an automag forum. :)

I think Angels are very good.. reliable too. I dont see the ion and impulse being high end.

Angels- Not over-rated (You can get an LCD for like $250, and they are so worth it!)
DM's- Not over-rated (They are simpley good guns.)
EGOs- I have never seen/shot/owned one before. :tard: lol
Shockers- All i see is people with a problem. The gun is good, but only when it works. :D Dont try and tell me wrong, ive seen and heard enough. Shockers=the most over-rated.
Timmy- Not over-rated (Its like a spyder built to perfection. Well, then its not like a spyder at all) :)

[Banshee23]

I work for Closed-Bolt Markers.



http://sonicwhammy.20fr.com/pb/whoarly.jpg

[MicroMiniMe]

I work for Closed-Bolt Markers.

So I am really getting a kick out of most of these replies. Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like you know what you are talking about.

But trust me.... You don't.

I think you just want to make yourself sound smart, when in reality you don't know what you are talking about. This is how bad info gets passed around. If you don't know about the topic....Don't make yourself sound like you do.

Cuz some people will believe anything they read.

/jus trollin
//YA RLY



http://sonicwhammy.20fr.com/pb/whoarly.jpg

He also works for Chuck Norris, The Dali Llama, Woody Allen and Bill Gates.

Though I think he still sells ice to Eskimo's in the offseason.


Most overrated marker is ANYTHING brand new off the shelf at retail pricing.

[slade]

You do realize this is an automag forum. :)
...which would explain why emags are so overrated here ;)

sorry, but they really are.

[snoopay700]

I work for Closed-Bolt Markers.

So I am really getting a kick out of most of these replies. Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like you know what you are talking about.

But trust me.... You don't.

I think you just want to make yourself sound smart, when in reality you don't know what you are talking about. This is how bad info gets passed around. If you don't know about the topic....Don't make yourself sound like you do.

Cuz some people will believe anything they read.

/jus trollin
//YA RLY
Ah, see, but i do know what i'm talking about. And if you have a different explanation, try me, go ahead, try to act like you know what you're talking about.

[slade]

Ah, see, but i do know what i'm talking about. And if you have a different explanation, try me, go ahead, try to act like you know what you're talking about.
didnt you hear him?

he works for closed bolt markers.

that means he knows more than you.

[Automaggot68]

Ah, see, but i do know what i'm talking about. And if you have a different explanation, try me, go ahead, try to act like you know what you're talking about.

You haven't been here that long.
That's ok.
Just don't make an enemy of Ricker man.
That guy is crazy.

/he kills all' the hookers

[snoopay700]

didnt you hear him?

he works for closed bolt markers.

that means he knows more than you.
Haha, oh, and i'm not trying to make him an enemy, i just want him to explain what was wrong with what i said.

[Automaggot68]

Haha, oh, and i'm not trying to make him an enemy, i just want him to explain what was wrong with what i said.

I see you can't be helped.


Rick, I tried to stop him man.
I tried.



/porch?

[slade]

I see you can't be helped.


Rick, I tried to stop him man.
I tried.



/porch?
/KITCHEN!

[snoopay700]

I see you can't be helped.


Rick, I tried to stop him man.
I tried.



/porch?
Hey, i'm just saying, if he's trying to call me an idiot he better put up or shut up. Besides, it's the internet, what can he do?

[slade]

Hey, i'm just saying, if he's trying to call me an idiot he better put up or shut up. Besides, it's the internet, what can he do?

He also works for Chuck Norris, The Dali Llama, Woody Allen and Bill Gates.

Though I think he still sells ice to Eskimo's in the offseason.
i guess you missed that, like you missed all the other threads.

and dont forget nextel.

[Automaggot68]

He sells FRIDGES to Eskimo's, not Ice.
Morons.

[snoopay700]

He sells FRIDGES to Eskimo's, not Ice.
Morons.
Oh crap, he's that guy, well i guess i'm screwed next week when he delivers it.

[SCpoloRicker]

Banshee23 wins all of teh internets. And I am being completey owned in this thread. ;)

/I don't work for Nextel, the agency has them as a client.

[Boski51]

Yeah i know, it does have merit to it, but you have to admit, they're damn good markers. Anyway, they're overrated yes, but still probably the best stock class gun (well the only one i'd use)


The phantom is not even close to the best stock class marker! Try the Carter Buzzard or the CCM SS5 or J5 or whtever he is calling it now.

The phantom is an good marker, but far from great!

[snoopay700]

The phantom is not even close to the best stock class marker! Try the Carter Buzzard or the CCM SS5 or J5 or whtever he is calling it now.

The phantom is an good marker, but far from great!
Note i said the only one i would use, but i also don't believe in dumping ****loads of money into a gun.

[slade]

Note i said the only one i would use, but i also don't believe in dumping ****loads of money into a gun.
a CCM S5 is around $300.

[nippinout]

Ion.

Why? Imagine if it wasn't Smart Parts that came out with the Ion, but Brass Eagle.

Everybody would be calling it the biggest piece of plastic crap since the Stingray.

[Wizzman]

Everything that uses a battery is over rated.

That and anything that cost $1000...

-Wizz-

[snoopay700]

a CCM S5 is around $300.
Exactly, i am a poor boy. I am lucky hough because the only reason i have an rt now is because i lucked out and got it and an intelliframe and level ten for only 200, oh, and the intelli's hooked up to a revy.

[craltal]

I;m going to have to say Timmy. The only differences between most of them is milling and anno. That doesn't excuse the price tags.

SP is almost as bad with all of the private label Shockers.

[snoopay700]

Banshee23 wins all of teh internets. And I am being completey owned in this thread. ;)

/I don't work for Nextel, the agency has them as a client.
I guess you are, and just for anyone who thinks that cockers or any other gun can shoot farther than any other gun, look at this and you will see you're wrong: http://www.vm68.com/stuff/physics_and_the_real_world.html (i know this is dead, but i finally found what i needed, and this is where it came up so i figured i'd rather not make a whole new thread)

[slade]

I guess you are, and just for anyone who thinks that cockers or any other gun can shoot farther than any other gun, look at this and you will see you're wrong: http://www.vm68.com/stuff/physics_and_the_real_world.html (i know this is dead, but i finally found what i needed, and this is where it came up so i figured i'd rather not make a whole new thread)
tippmann w/ flatline shoots farther than any other normal barreled gun :ninja:

do you really think anyone here actually thought cockers shoot farther?

[Aslan]

Ion.

Why? Imagine if it wasn't Smart Parts that came out with the Ion, but Brass Eagle.

Everybody would be calling it the biggest piece of plastic crap since the Stingray.

Totally agree! :cheers:

You can't talk about overhype without mentioning the Ion. Mags and Cockers may get undue hype...but at least they are quality products. Angels and Shockers may be overpriced...but they are good guns. The Ion's only redeeming quality, once you get past the hype, is that it's cheap. Ironically, the same arguement used by Brass Eagle..."they aren't the best guns, but the best for the money..." Not to mention Ion owners are annoying in general. :shooting: :bounce:

A better poll would be the most "under-rated" gun. I'd vote the Rainmaker. Many people that still use them say they are excellent guns and Brass Eagle never should have stopped that line. On the other hand, I've heard they're higher maintenance than Cockers, constantly breaking...never owned one...so I don't know...just going on "word of mouth." :ninja:

[FlawleZ]

Timmy's by far. It's kind of area specific, but usually all I hear is timmy this timmy that. I don't care if they do perform well, there's nothing special about the marker whatsoever. It's just a Spyder with a fast board and makeover. They cost about the same to produce as well only they get to rape you with 10 times the MSRP.

[REDRT]

I'd say a mech mag. Many people have been quoting BPS figures that are a tad high over the years. What a mag really can do has been spun so one might think the bps of what a person can expect to achieve is much higher than what is possible. This has been exaggerated greatly over the years. The markers on the list gets hype for a year or so and it is over. So I'd say reguarding the spin of how much BPS an adverage person can achieve using a mech mag has made it one of the, "most over rated guns".

[Lohman446]

I'd say a mech mag. Many people have been quoting BPS figures that are a tad high over the years. What a mag really can do has been spun so one might think the bps of what a person can expect to achieve is much higher than what is possible. This has been exaggerated greatly over the years. The markers on the list gets hype for a year or so and it is over. So I'd say reguarding the spin of how much BPS an adverage person can achieve using a mech mag has made it one of the, "most over rated guns".

I would argue that a mech mag is both the most overrateda nd underrated marker out there. To those who overrate them there is this beleif that they are every bit as good as an e-marker and can do everything they can. Couple this with a few videos of "evidence" of mags in uncontrolled runaway and they point and argue this point to death.

Then there are those that underrate them as blenders, ancient, and unuseable. Many players may be well suited to a mag in there pack, in fact I have one for the ultimate backup marker. It is enough that I do not feel hopeless with it, I know it will work when I pull it out, and does not put me out on the field worrying about electronics, or sticking valves when it gets cold.

[REDRT]

I would argue that a mech mag is both the most overrateda nd underrated marker out there. To those who overrate them there is this beleif that they are every bit as good as an e-marker and can do everything they can. Couple this with a few videos of "evidence" of mags in uncontrolled runaway and they point and argue this point to death.

Then there are those that underrate them as blenders, ancient, and unuseable. Many players may be well suited to a mag in there pack, in fact I have one for the ultimate backup marker. It is enough that I do not feel hopeless with it, I know it will work when I pull it out, and does not put me out on the field worrying about electronics, or sticking valves when it gets cold.

My point is when people of lesser minds quote ridiculous bps higher than humanly possible and it has been going on for as long as I can remember. I'd say, "mech mags" in general have been highly over rated by many. Under appreciated by even more.

[mackin4u1202]

i went with angel only cause i always hear people saying

omg i want to be shot by an angel they hurt like hell!!!!

and im like wow is it me or are the velocity on most guns the same :confused:

[Automaggot68]

i went with angel only cause i always hear people saying

omg i want to be shot by an angel they hurt like hell!!!!

and im like wow is it me or are the velocity on most guns the same :confused:


Wow.

[okiTony]

My 2 cents.....ION's.

[magman007]

I have heard from various Airsmith's, such as Punisher, that an LPR does nothing for the Shocker. It's not needed.

Most overrated gun- DM series, especially the DM6. Everybody loves it and raves about the "new technology" when it is just a 5 year old design revamped several times.



how the hell did i let a terrible claim like this slip under my radar? Clearly you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and you should sit down and shut your lips.

Im assuming you have the slightest amount of knowledge on how the spoolvalve works, and if you think about it, you will see why an lpr is completely and utterly advantageous over a spooler running without an lpr. ALso, why do you think the origional airtech matricies started incorporating the lpr, then re tooling the body to accept an lpr easier.

solenoid drives the bolt. On a dm, the air going to the solenoid, has been brought down to 70psi(factory standard, many dm6's are running much much lower, 45-50psi range after break in) then it drives the bolt forewards and backwards.

on the shocker, the pressure is all the same. the pressure driving the bolt, and the pressure firing the marker, which i believe is the imput pressure of about 150 psi. double the amount of force the bolt has on the ball. its why when it is cold out, and shockers are breaking everything, that dm's will see alot less breakage.


Second off, the dm6 being a revamp of a 5 yearold design. What the hell are you thinking? there are so many differences between the dm6 and a gen e lcd matrix, or matrix of that body style, that you would have to have the mental capacity of a 2 yearold not to notice.

The dm6 is running an imput pressure of about 145psi. it used to be 170 on the other dm series, and 180-200 on the lcd body.

We all know about the body, which just progressively gets smaller and smaller.

Efficiency. Efficiency has been rising with each revision, on my 70ci penut, i can get 8pods and a hopper. thats timmy and ego territory, still not as good, but no where near as bad as an led, or an lcd with the stock, or the image/red/blue bolt kits.

eyes.. the self cleaning eyes work wonderfully, tested the dm6 on stock settings, with a 9volt revvy, and i had 0 issues.

ul frame. Different, comfortable, great idea.

different trigger from the previous series, more adj points, more customizability.

Heads up display. just a little more dye innovation.

also, the dm line has the front on off, some argue its useless, i like it and think it was a good idea.

the FUSE BOLT. biggest difference in this "5 yearold design" much easier, less friction from less contact points. KISS keep it simple stupid. thats what dye did with this bolt, and it just keeps getting progressively better.

SO it is a new revision to the design, not just some repackaging.

If knowledge is power. than i am your god.

[minimag03]

on the shocker, the pressure is all the same. the pressure driving the bolt, and the pressure firing the marker, which i believe is the imput pressure of about 150 psi. double the amount of force the bolt has on the ball. its why when it is cold out, and shockers are breaking everything, that dm's will see alot less breakage.

So are you saying all Shockers would work better with and LPR or SP needs to redesign the Shocker to use an LPR to the full potential? An LPR would ower the pressure about 10 PSI on the current Shocker design.

SP does hype their markers a lot. The people that are dumb enough to buy into the hype are usally dumb enough not to take proper care of their markers. I believe this is what causes a lot of the problems with their markers. The is not only true with SP, but many more markers.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

It was just my opinion, even though you think it may be a bit misguided. Quite honestly, I feel the basic design of the current generation line of Dye markers is very similar to the general design of that of the very first Matrices. If you can show me that the DM6 contains no operational and mechanical similarities between it's much older counterpart, then I will agree with you that my original post was wrong. However, that is not the case. Essentially, that is all I was saying about it in my first post.

Also, the statement that the DM6 is a "5 year old design that was revamped" isn't exactly a completely false statement. Has the Matrix not, from year to year, turned into the DM6? Hasn't all of these improvements led us to the DM6? Keep in mind that tgis is not necessarily a negative conotation. Essentially, all I meant by my orginal statement was that all this "new technology" (yes, there is some with the DM6) is being overhyped.

If an LPR is so vital to the function of a modern Shocker, why is it that they are on such a small percentage of the Shockers out there today functioning without them?

I'm not out to get into an arguement here. I completely understand your point of view and what you are saying. All I am trying to do is back up my statements while trying to understand even more your points.

[jenarelJAM]

Wow, I hate to be the one to defend the ion...

For the record, I don't own an ion, but a couple of my friends do.

For under $300, new, you really can't beat the ion for a new player's second gun. New kid buys a $50 first gun, sees the ion with eyes, electro, etc., wants it for his birthday. It gives him a chance to practice walking a trigger, trying to shoot lanes, and to get into the whole speedball thing. And it's affordable. It isn't overhyped, most of the hype on it is because it is such a great first or second gun, and it fulfills that. One thing I don't think everyone realizes on the "overhyped" thread is that spending less money on a gun is an Advantage, not a reason to bash it.

[Lohman446]

Wow, I hate to be the one to defend the ion...

For the record, I don't own an ion, but a couple of my friends do.

For under $300, new, you really can't beat the ion for a new player's second gun. New kid buys a $50 first gun, sees the ion with eyes, electro, etc., wants it for his birthday. It gives him a chance to practice walking a trigger, trying to shoot lanes, and to get into the whole speedball thing. And it's affordable. It isn't overhyped, most of the hype on it is because it is such a great first or second gun, and it fulfills that. One thing I don't think everyone realizes on the "overhyped" thread is that spending less money on a gun is an Advantage, not a reason to bash it.

$300 high end marker? While the Ion is a good marker for the price I would not put it in the category of other high end markers (Shocker, DM line, Angels, etc.) There was a lot of hype on the thing. Hype does not mean a marker has no redeeming qualities, it just indicates that the marker is overstated.

[RusskiX]

$300 high end marker? While the Ion is a good marker for the price I would not put it in the category of other high end markers (Shocker, DM line, Angels, etc.) There was a lot of hype on the thing. Hype does not mean a marker has no redeeming qualities, it just indicates that the marker is overstated.

Read it again...nowhere does the writer above call the ION a "high end" gun, nor does he specifically compare it to high end markers. He does a good job of indicating it a progessive gun choice that steps up from entry level only. It fills a niche.

[SCpoloRicker]

how the hell did i let a terrible claim like this slip under my radar? Clearly you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and you should sit down and shut your lips.

Im assuming you have the slightest amount of knowledge on how the spoolvalve works, and if you think about it, you will see why an lpr is completely and utterly advantageous over a spooler running without an lpr. ALso, why do you think the origional airtech matricies started incorporating the lpr, then re tooling the body to accept an lpr easier.

solenoid drives the bolt. On a dm, the air going to the solenoid, has been brought down to 70psi(factory standard, many dm6's are running much much lower, 45-50psi range after break in) then it drives the bolt forewards and backwards.

on the shocker, the pressure is all the same. the pressure driving the bolt, and the pressure firing the marker, which i believe is the imput pressure of about 150 psi. double the amount of force the bolt has on the ball. its why when it is cold out, and shockers are breaking everything, that dm's will see alot less breakage.


Second off, the dm6 being a revamp of a 5 yearold design. What the hell are you thinking? there are so many differences between the dm6 and a gen e lcd matrix, or matrix of that body style, that you would have to have the mental capacity of a 2 yearold not to notice.

The dm6 is running an imput pressure of about 145psi. it used to be 170 on the other dm series, and 180-200 on the lcd body.

We all know about the body, which just progressively gets smaller and smaller.

Efficiency. Efficiency has been rising with each revision, on my 70ci penut, i can get 8pods and a hopper. thats timmy and ego territory, still not as good, but no where near as bad as an led, or an lcd with the stock, or the image/red/blue bolt kits.

eyes.. the self cleaning eyes work wonderfully, tested the dm6 on stock settings, with a 9volt revvy, and i had 0 issues.

ul frame. Different, comfortable, great idea.

different trigger from the previous series, more adj points, more customizability.

Heads up display. just a little more dye innovation.

also, the dm line has the front on off, some argue its useless, i like it and think it was a good idea.

the FUSE BOLT. biggest difference in this "5 yearold design" much easier, less friction from less contact points. KISS keep it simple stupid. thats what dye did with this bolt, and it just keeps getting progressively better.

SO it is a new revision to the design, not just some repackaging.

If knowledge is power. than i am your god.

Must... resist... giggles... ;)

[Lohman446]

Read it again...nowhere does the writer above call the ION a "high end" gun, nor does he specifically compare it to high end markers. He does a good job of indicating it a progessive gun choice that steps up from entry level only. It fills a niche.

I took it as a defense of the Ion, claiming it not to be overhyped. The Ion fills a great niche (which was a lot bigger of a niche when it was released). But, part of the hype was that it was a high end gun. The Ion was decidedly overhyped, does not take away from what it actually was.

[getyourgunn]

angel= my gun is $500 shinier than yours (idont have one)
shockers= are sweet i have to admit get one for 600 fully upped (used)
ions= self explanatory
impulse= big heavy but was sweet at the time it came out
ego= nice
dm's= nice
timmys= spyders on steroids

[FSU_Paintball]

Overrated over here? Mags.

[WARPED1]

You forgot Devil Mag.................

[UTDragun]

gold plated ir3's

[11 Bravo]

You forgot Devil Mag.................


They dont exist...Only in GA's mind. :rolleyes:

[WARPED1]

They dont exist...Only in GA's mind. :rolleyes:
Very true, I thought 1 or 2 made it out to the real world.

[SCpoloRicker]

That number is a bit low. And I'd have to agree with you; a lot of people have hyped them as the be all, end all solution.

Owners (myself, lohman, and a few others) have been far more realistic.

[usagi_tetsu]

I'm thinking it's not so much which marker is the most overrated (though I did vote for the Ion... come on, if they were really so great, why is everyone selling used ones online?), so much as what features are overrated. My vote, over all the other silliness out there, is ramping. If we're going to have the electronics do the work for us, why not just have it go full auto, and cap it at the ROF you are pretending is safe? You're not controlling it any more by fluttering your fingers instead of merely holding the trigger, you've merely reduced the playing field further so that everyone can fire high rates of speed no matter their skill or fast-twitch muscle response times. That, and making the paint manufacturers a ton of money.

[azzkikr]

yeah wait a sec, i instictivly voted timmys cause i would n..... forget it, i'm not getting into it again.

but where are the emags in that poll?

[PumpPlayer]

Carters

I own one and it's nice... but very over-hyped.
Phantoms are hyped more by the people that don't own them than by those who do.
My three Phantoms all shoot great, but it's not going to make you a better player.

I would add Palmer's as well, but since it's a very cult following, I can't think that it counts.

I voted Angels.

[paintman1234]

i voted shocker, because its an ion with anodizing, and a fancy firing chamber

im suprised ion is number one, how can it be overrated if its cheaper then any of the other guns on the list.... sure its not the best but people know that. People buy it because of the price not because of the quality

timmy is right up there just because it is a spyder on steroids, and we all no what steroids did to baseball...

[WARPED1]

PE's Ego. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay overrated.

[r-unit]

intimidators are nice, but not 1250 dollar nice.

mechanically, they are pretty much spyders with an air pushing it forward. face it.

whoever said "one is ram, one is hammer"......same thing, eclipse calls it a rammer.

they are just very nice spyders........would that stop me from buying one? no..i just think they are over rated.

[WARPED1]

intimidators are nice, but not 1250 dollar nice.

mechanically, they are pretty much spyders with an air pushing it forward. face it.

whoever said "one is ram, one is hammer"......same thing, eclipse calls it a rammer.

they are just very nice spyders........would that stop me from buying one? no..i just think they are over rated.
You can get 2k5's now used for like $500............

[slade]

intimidators are nice, but not 1250 dollar nice.

mechanically, they are pretty much spyders with an air pushing it forward. face it.

whoever said "one is ram, one is hammer"......same thing, eclipse calls it a rammer.

they are just very nice spyders........would that stop me from buying one? no..i just think they are over rated.
that statement is far overused. an intimidator is a spyder body milled to higher tolerances (although still not all that high by other standards) with a HPR, LPR, solenoid, ram, and slightly different bolt. it has different threads, different feedneck, and completely different frame. so whats the same? it has two tubes. it has a poppet valve. it has a (somewhat) similar bolt. its open bolt operation. ...those are things many markers share. it would probably be more accurate to say that a phantom is just a "very nice talon", or "talon on steroids". i think they actually have more internal similarities.

[yingyang]

I voted Angel also, I just remember when I started and asked what was the best gun, everyone said Angels, because they shoot thr furthest and most accurate and fastest. And I wanted one so bad back then, but now I play pump! HA!

[dahoeb]

I voted Angel also, I just remember when I started and asked what was the best gun, everyone said Angels, because they shoot thr furthest and most accurate and fastest. And I wanted one so bad back then, but now I play pump! HA!
haha thats the irony of paintball nowadays.