Latest Butters Video RT@650

[Butterfingers]

Yeah you read right... reactive trigger at 650 PSI.

http://media.putfile.com/Low-Pressure-RT

Next in the series... Insanity@900.

[Automaggot68]

Ok so.
How many shims in your ULT?
Also, good jarb on the focus so we could see the actualy readout on the gauge.

[Butterfingers]

Sorry it was done with a digital camera with video function it dosent focus. Its a basic Air America Gauge Its between 500 and 750.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=1/1815591047.jpg&s=x11

No shims. I didnt use a ULT :lol:

[snoopay700]

Sorry it was done with a digital camera with video function it dosent focus.

No shims. I didnt use a ULT :lol:
How'd you do it?

[gibby]

How'd you do it?
He's butters...he's got the magic fingers.

[Butterfingers]

He's butters...he's got the magic fingers.

Magic Pencils Too

[snoopay700]

Magic Pencils Too
Well i was wondering if using a pencil was light enough to make it work or what.

[Butterfingers]

It works with fingers too...

To clue you in on what I did its a combination of what I did, what comapnies that have gone out of business did, and AGD parts that are no longer made.

During testing I can say that the max-flow does not flow as max as they say it does. Other products flow more maxifully :rofl:

Whats even better is this was done with a medium spring last chrono at 285. No whussy small spring low velocity rapid fires!

[snoopay700]

It works with fingers too...
I mean with that low of pressure, or did you just use a pencil because you were holding a camera?

[Butterfingers]

I mean with that low of pressure, or did you just use a pencil because you were holding a camera?


I used a pencil cause i didnt want people thinking that I was just pulling the trigger.

[luke]

Humm, no video when I follow your links..

[Butterfingers]

Humm, no video when I follow your links..

Need Quicktime

[paint magnet]

It works with fingers too...

To clue you in on what I did its a combination of what I did, what comapnies that have gone out of business did, and AGD parts that are no longer made.

During testing I can say that the max-flow does not flow as max as they say it does. Other products flow more maxifully :rofl:

Whats even better is this was done with a medium spring last chrono at 285. No whussy small spring low velocity rapid fires!

Let me guess...Z valve?

[Remington]

Nice job Butters! :clap:

[hardr0ck68]

What part (no brand name needed) happens to be the one from a company no longer around?

[Butterfingers]

Ok I guess I can reveal all since there are no ethics in paintball anymore and somehow in the course of paintball history ramping to full auto is now allowed.... So heres some clues so you can pretty easily figure it out.

1) Parts that are not made any more. There is a small diffrence in the internals of the current X-valve and the internals of the Old ReTro valve. It has to do with the On/Off chamber. The ReTro valve has one less 0-ring and is internally identical to the original RT. Some early production E-mag valves also have this feature. It is impossible to convert modern generation valves because the metal was milled away. This feature does not increase reacivity persay but it makes sure tolerances stay tight because it is alot harder to compress stainless steel than it is urethane.

2) The quad-o-ring. You put it in the afformentioned chamber. Keep in mind that the first gen e-mag used a .725 pin (aluminum topped on/off) before switching to a .712. Try both with the 0-ring to see what works.

3) The on-off pin. Centerflag used to ship a hyperstepped on/off pin with thier origninal hyperframes along with a smaller 0-ring. You can make your own out of a normal RT pin but its a pain in the arse and you need to find a super tight o-ring. Place these items in the original AGD RT on/off assy shaved to the appropriate length as mentioned above.

4) A good trigger frame.

5) Fulcrum point of the on/off assy. This does not need to be changed but it helps slightly. You will need to drill a hole for the trigger rod assy higher in the sear. You will need carbide bits. You will break steel bits, you will break cobalt bits, you will break titanium bits this thing is hard.

6) The most important thing is a high flowing airsystem. Reacitvity is not only affected by PSI but also by flow and recharge rate of your airsystem. Find a good one. The best one I have found isnt made anymore and will never be made anymore. The second best one I have played with isnt made anymore and will never be made anymore. The third best one I found is made by nazis.

[hardr0ck68]

Let me guess...Z valve?

I was gonna guess that as well, but i dont think it worked for RT style on/offs. I could be wrong however. I would really like to pick up another couple of those, i loved mine.

[WARPED1]

Damn you and your Mac. But nice.

[hardr0ck68]

6) The most important thing is a high flowing airsystem. Reacitvity is not only affected by PSI but also by flow and recharge rate of your airsystem. Find a good one. The best one I have found isnt made anymore and will never be made anymore. The second best one I have played with isnt made anymore and will never be made anymore. The third best one I found is made by nazis.

Ok we all know the one made by nazi's; cause yeah they have the patent on air. But can i guess as to the first 2?

Armageddon
and Apocolypse

Im an AA fan so yeah i was all so thinking Flatline (i think those are out of production, but can still be bought new and there is no reason more cant be made) and i also wonder if you might be a legion Air fan....those old brit regs sure worked well, darned goofy threading makes them a dying breed however.

[Butterfingers]

I was gonna guess that as well, but i dont think it worked for RT style on/offs. I could be wrong however. I would really like to pick up another couple of those, i loved mine.


You can try that with the X-valve... the metal has been removed to mimic the dimensions of the .68 mag chamber and I assume it would fit. It wont fit the Original RT valves. Might be worth a shot for ish and giggles.

[Butterfingers]

Damn you and your Mac. But nice.

My mac? I have an IBM Thinkpad :rofl:

[Butterfingers]

Ok we all know the one made by nazi's; cause yeah they have the patent on air. But can i guess as to the first 2?

Armageddon
and Apocolypse

Im an AA fan so yeah i was all so thinking Flatline (i think those are out of production, but can still be bought new and there is no reason more cant be made) and i also wonder if you might be a legion Air fan....those old brit regs sure worked well, darned goofy threading makes them a dying breed however.


What tipped you off was it the Air America Logo on the gauge or was it the Big white letters on the reg itself? :rofl:

Actually there is one more that works better than the Maxi. My 10 year old AA Raptor works good too so that should be third and the nazireg in 4th.

[hardr0ck68]

What tipped you off was it the Air America Logo on the gauge or was it the Big white letters on the reg itself? :rofl:

Actually there is one more that works better than the Maxi. My 10 year old AA Raptor works good too so that should be third and the nazireg in 4th.


You know i looked at the reg body and was confused for a bit, i havent picked up one of those new fangled apoc's. how do you like it?(compared to say a geddon) I borrowed one of the old style ones back in the day and yeah, a 5lb regulator is not something you can get used to in one game or two.

The nice thing about the old ones thought, you could put one on a vm68 and it was sooo heavy that it would make the "kick" almost unnoticable.

[Butterfingers]

You know i looked at the reg body and was confused for a bit, i havent picked up one of those new fangled apoc's. how do you like it?(compared to say a geddon) I borrowed one of the old style ones back in the day and yeah, a 5lb regulator is not something you can get used to in one game or two.

The nice thing about the old ones thought, you could put one on a vm68 and it was sooo heavy that it would make the "kick" almost unnoticable.

I like it alot, its lighter than the Raptor and id say its the same weight as the newest gen adjustble maxflow that I borrowed. They shaved ALOT of weight from the original steel brick. This reg and the Armegeddon are very comparable. I think the Armegeddon flows a little bit better but the apoc 2k has a little bit better recovery response.

[wanna-b-ballin']

can you show us a vid when its run on about 1000 psi? my mag bounces like yours on 800 psi, so i'm curious.

[Butterfingers]

can you show us a vid when its run on about 1000 psi? my mag bounces like yours on 800 psi, so i'm curious.


I will as soon as I can get a scuba fill.

[WARPED1]

Isn't the recommended input ~850?

[BigEvil]

Shortend on/off pin (very short)

[UTDragun]

What tipped you off was it the Air America Logo on the gauge or was it the Big white letters on the reg itself? :rofl:

Actually there is one more that works better than the Maxi. My 10 year old AA Raptor works good too so that should be third and the nazireg in 4th.
I thought the Conquest was pretty sweet as well as dynaflow

[Butterfingers]

Conquest wont output more than 600 psi. THe mag barely starts working at that pressure.

I have a centerflag adjustable reg it dosent like high pressures its not as reactive and the reg pins start creeping when you set them too high.

[minimag03]

Ok I guess I can reveal all since there are no ethics in paintball anymore and somehow in the course of paintball history ramping to full auto is now allowed.... So heres some clues so you can pretty easily figure it out.

1) Parts that are not made any more. There is a small diffrence in the internals of the current X-valve and the internals of the Old ReTro valve. It has to do with the On/Off chamber. The ReTro valve has one less 0-ring and is internally identical to the original RT. Some early production E-mag valves also have this feature. It is impossible to convert modern generation valves because the metal was milled away. This feature does not increase reacivity persay but it makes sure tolerances stay tight because it is alot harder to compress stainless steel than it is urethane.

2) The quad-o-ring. You put it in the afformentioned chamber. Keep in mind that the first gen e-mag used a .725 pin (aluminum topped on/off) before switching to a .712. Try both with the 0-ring to see what works.

3) The on-off pin. Centerflag used to ship a hyperstepped on/off pin with thier origninal hyperframes along with a smaller 0-ring. You can make your own out of a normal RT pin but its a pain in the arse and you need to find a super tight o-ring. Place these items in the original AGD RT on/off assy shaved to the appropriate length as mentioned above.

4) A good trigger frame.

5) Fulcrum point of the on/off assy. This does not need to be changed but it helps slightly. You will need to drill a hole for the trigger rod assy higher in the sear. You will need carbide bits. You will break steel bits, you will break cobalt bits, you will break titanium bits this thing is hard.

6) The most important thing is a high flowing airsystem. Reacitvity is not only affected by PSI but also by flow and recharge rate of your airsystem. Find a good one. The best one I have found isnt made anymore and will never be made anymore. The second best one I have played with isnt made anymore and will never be made anymore. The third best one I found is made by nazis.

Couldn't you get the same results with a stock on/off assembly and E-mag pin on any RT, Retro, Emag, or X-valve?

[Butterfingers]

Couldn't you get the same results with a stock on/off assembly and E-mag pin on any RT, Retro, Emag, or X-valve?

If you put too short a pin in the stock on/off assembly the first time you pull the trigger it will leak down the barrel profusely. A shorter pin dosent help THAT much unless it was too long to begin with.

You can do it without the centerflag pin. Thats the only part of the on/off assembly that was "modified" It will just take a little bit more finesse to get it going at that pressure.

You could do the same thing with the X-valve but the Urethane o-ring that the on/off sits on will compress over time and screw with your tolerances a little bit. Ive done it with my X-valve but it works alot better with my Retro Valve because the entire on/off assy sits on stainless steel. The very soft quad-o-ring is surrounded by steel not another o-ring.

Its more of a longetevity thing. The retro will fire like that all day long probably tens of thousands of cycles without skipping a beat or needing an 0-ring change. Ive emptied 5 scuba tanks on this valve so far without changing a single o-ring or needing to adjust anything.

[UTDragun]

Conquest wont output more than 600 psi. THe mag barely starts working at that pressure.

I have a centerflag adjustable reg it dosent like high pressures its not as reactive and the reg pins start creeping when you set them too high.
they do 650 which is what yours is set at lol, but they do have a wicked recharge rate.

Ive seen people set theirs at ~1200 and had no creeping problems on the dynaflow

what is a "fangled" apoc?


Edit*
I just read the thread over on pbn about flatlines and AA regs.
So how come you dont put flatlines up on your list if their almost identical?
/i.e. pros and cons of flatline

edit2
What about Guerilla Air regs. Isnt GA made up of ex-AA employees?

[Butterfingers]

The only reason I didnt put the flatline up there is because I have not tested one extensively enough to draw a conclusion. For the Flatline 3k I did have I can say its not as good tom changed alot of things from the original design. However The 4.5k is supposed to be much better.

I could run a conquest but then I would not have the option of cranking the sucker up to 900 and the gun wouldent be insane.

Theres no reason to run a Hyper/dynaflow at 1200. It flows great its time to full recovery leaves somthing to be desired.

At 850 the AA systems had better recovery response and reactivity than my hyperflow. The pressure literally snaps back instantaneously.

[bunkerhugger]

Is this video still around somewhere? I'd be willing to host it if anyone has a copy.