Try to be unbiased and help me out

[punkncat]

This is another one of those one of a million posts, but I am going to try anyway.

Good buddy of mine has been playing for a LONG time. He started off with some pump gun, went to Stingrays, Spyders, Tippys, a mag, a cocker, and an original Trix. He has had exceptional luck with his Trix and it has served him long and hard for many years totally trouble free with a severe lack of routine maint. In all this time the only markers he has had as long or longer, and still has in working condition are his Tippys.

At the end of last winter the original LED board in the Trix blew up. Since then we have been all through the marker having to replace worn out parts. In essense its a new trix inside an old body, but refuses to be reliable. If its not one thing its another. He owned an Xvalved RTP for a short time, had a good deal of trouble tuning the LX and didn't like it. He had problems short stroking the trigger on his cocker and didn't like it. He is convinced that any other Electric marker he gets is going to cause him trouble because of what has happened with the Trix.

He has been looking at getting an A5 RT with a "stealth" kit. This thing is going to run him $425 !!! I have been trying to convince him that there are WAY better markers available to him used for a good deal less money. A freaking 98C RT with a Halo is a more reliable marker for about half the money...if it was new.
He generally plays woodsball and scenarios. It would take an act of congress to get him back into a serious speedball game. He has access to HPA as well as CO2. Given the reliability that Tippmanns are known for and his previous experiances what marker would you suggest as a used model for under $425 that will stand the test?
Please don't suggest something just because "Tippys suck". What makes other suggested markers better ?

Not only am I trying to convince him, I am trying to convince myself. Maybe a Tippy is the best choice, but I just can't see going from a Trix to a A5 and being happy with that choice down the road.

[nippinout]

Why try to change what he likes?

Would you like someone telling you to buy a different gun? It seems like the A5 offers him what he wants. It is also very popular for scenario games because of the accessories available for it. If he wants, he can even get an electro frame for it should the need arise.

Tippmanns work.

[punkncat]

Why try to change what he likes?

Would you like someone telling you to buy a different gun? It seems like the A5 offers him what he wants. It is also very popular for scenario games because of the accessories available for it. If he wants, he can even get an electro frame for it should the need arise.

Tippmanns work.


I dunno man...I just keep thinking about all the A5 RT flatlines out there with paint dripping out the barrel, not being able to hit target on a good day. Other than being able to shoot a ball a few yards further than anyone else(before the first barrel break) its got nothing going for it. Its big and heavy. The Cyclone feed is nothing but trouble, coupled with an RT a flatline ...its just a blender waiting to happen.

I fully believe the 98 to be about the toughest most reliable marker on the planet. The A5 has not come close, and I hate to see a good buddy make a bad choice that will probably cost his intrest in playing.

[punkncat]

I guess what I am trying to say is that the A5 has all the gimmicks and bells and whistles he thinks he wants. He is basing the reliability on a marker that the A5 isn't.

He used to talk about how he didn't like the weight and size of the Trix, but he did like the effortless speed and quiet operation. So he is going to replace it with something bigger and heavier, louder....and slower.

[bleachit]

dont put a flatline barrel on it :P

tell him to pick up a used 98 custom and buy one of those cyclone feed add ons for it. should be much cheaper, and the 98 will last a lifetime.. even if it was abused.

[peewee]

If he's tippy bound I'd say 98 Custom pro E , gives him the fire power he is use to having with a little better reliability over the A5. Nothing worse than soup in your A5 can. Plus he can do all kinds of tinkering with out doing much damage.

[Cow hunter]

DO NOT use the flatline for 3 reasons....
1;curve like mad
2;breaks happen and cleaning that is hell
3;the whole marker must be taken apart to get it off.....

but other than that tippy's are good, just dont pull too fast or you chop......
this is unbiased, ive used tippy's since i started playing, they're great, but theres better out there

obviously people will tell you to get mags, i suggest it too, nothing better IMHO
for electro's.... problems are inevitable...... same as any other, but more prevelant an issue in anything with a battery..... not only that, but you cant throw them around and clean them in the sink

[geekwarrior]

http://store.airgun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.catalog&categoryID=81

[electriceel125]

He could pick up a used viking. all the speed in the world and very reliable. but if he is stuck on a tippy. Then well he is just stuck on what he likes.

[personman]

Well maybe a tippmann is for him, but make sure he trys it before he buys it! Tippmanns, because of their inline blowback design, tend to be pretty long, and the gun will balence differently and have a different feel than his old trix, not to mention the RT will take some getting used to.

[SniperSmurf]

The Cyclone feed is nothing but trouble, coupled with an RT a flatline ...its just a blender waiting to happen.
Now, I'm not a fan of the flatline myself, but what issues are there exactly with the Cyclone feed and RT? I've got 2 A5s and haven't had a lick of trouble with either one! I love the cyclone - loads balls as fast as I can shoot, and with the RT running good, that's pretty dang fast... 1 trigger pull = 1 ball loaded.

[cdacda13]

E-bolt'd 98c. Get it centerfeed too.
Very reliable, very customazible.
And, pretty cheap used.

[RRfireblade]

Honestly it sounds to me like your the most biased of opinoins.

IMO, an A5 is very little of what you think it is besides perhaps somewhat heavy.

Cylone feed works as advertised and as very trouble free.

Very little 'blender' like qualities.

Very dependable , reliable and maintainance free.

Capable of more than adaquate ROF.

That's in my experience of building, assembling and selling like this many custom Tippys....

http://store1.yimg.com/I/proteam_1857_705286

Anyone else wanna compete with that stack of empty boxes?

:D

[slade]

http://store1.yimg.com/I/proteam_1857_705286
thats... rather impressive. im jealous.

i agree though, my friend has an A5 which is completely reliable, and he never has problems with it. Then again, i hate it because its a woodsball gun, and he doesnt care too much for it anymore since hes moved more towards speedball. actually, hed probably sell it, and it has a lot of what a woodsballer would want, or it sounds your friend would want.

also vikings would be a good choice, personally i dont like them too much but their fast, cheap, and very reliable. much better than a tippmann for even woodsball IMO.

on a different note... ill take the matrix as it is for $50 :p

[punkncat]

Honestly it sounds to me like your the most biased of opinoins.

IMO, an A5 is very little of what you think it is besides perhaps somewhat heavy.

Cylone feed works as advertised and as very trouble free.

Very little 'blender' like qualities.

Very dependable , reliable and maintainance free.

Capable of more than adaquate ROF.

That's in my experience of building, assembling and selling like this many custom Tippys....


Anyone else wanna compete with that stack of empty boxes?

:D

You are right. I love the 98's but have seen quite a few of the A5's giving problems in the field. The Cyclone drive mechanism seems prone to breaking.
Also very common to see barrel breaks which are nearly impossible to clean on field.

[Pyroboy597]

I know I am going to get flamed to the ground for saying this, but get an ion. ::Gets up and hides under a rock :ninja: ::

[personman]

I know I am going to get flamed to the ground for saying this, but get an ion. ::Gets up and hides under a rock :ninja: ::
ha, he's paranoid about electro guns breaking and you're telling him to get an ion... thats comedy right there :)

[GT]

If he has problems with levelX and a previously running just find trix, I would highly recomend a 98 custom(or whatever new tippy thing they make now). I thought you had to be *special* err.. *talented* to cause a mag not to run correctly, or a cocker.

[11 Bravo]

You can not use brittle paint in a Flatline. Other than that it is a great barrel and if you do break a ball you just run a squeegy down it (not a swab). Also the cyclone feeder is not a problem it is a great feeder up to about 18 bps. Also the cylcone feeders ratchet is designed to wear out at about 20,000 shots. So if people are having that problem they should have been prepaired and had another ratchet. It takes 5 minutes to replace. A5 s are great they are easier to take apart than a 98 and has a better feed system - unless the 98 has a Halo.
I would recomend the A5 with the Egrip w/WAS board. If he is stuck on getting the rt, I would go with the 98. The rt works better on the 98.

Opinions like the ones I have read on this thread about the A5 remind me of what probably happened to the reputation of Mags. People running around talking Krap about things that are not true and definately inacurate.


You have seen paint dripping out of Flatline barrels :eek: Have you never had paint dripping out of your barrel? Has that old Matrix never had paint dripping out of it?

Also an A5 or 98 is not going to weigh more than on old Martix - guaranteed.

[punkncat]

You can not use brittle paint in a Flatline.So basically you can't use paint that will actually break on target , especially not at the extended range the flatline is known for


Other than that it is a great barrel and if you do break a ball you just run a squeegy down it (not a swab). Also the cyclone feeder is not a problem it is a great feeder up to about 18 bps. Also the cylcone feeders ratchet is designed to wear out at about 20,000 shots. So if people are having that problem they should have been prepaired and had another ratchet. It takes 5 minutes to replace. A5 s are great they are easier to take apart than a 98 and has a better feed system - unless the 98 has a Halo.
I would recomend the A5 with the Egrip w/WAS board. If he is stuck on getting the rt, I would go with the 98. The rt works better on the 98.So in essense you say that for this application the 98 would be better


Opinions like the ones I have read on this thread about the A5 remind me of what probably happened to the reputation of Mags. People running around talking Krap about things that are not true and definately inacurate.By no means have I said anything that I haven't observed with my own eyes. To be fair I play more speedball. I commonly see people using this marker for a purpose it wasn't really designed for.



You have seen paint dripping out of Flatline barrels :eek: Have you never had paint dripping out of your barrel? Has that old Matrix never had paint dripping out of it?
I have to admit, I have seen plenty to markers chop paint, even my own. To be fair at the cost of a FSDO the trix can be set up not to chop paint at all. About all I have seen out of his Trix was barrel break due to incorrect sizing until it just wore out.


Also an A5 or 98 is not going to weigh more than on old Martix - guaranteed. I believe the 98 is lighter, but I would have to weigh the A5 against the Trix.

[11 Bravo]

NO normal paint breaks just fine at the long distance. The Flatline is not only for distance. It has a flat tragectory for longer than other barrels. This allows you to shoot gaps between limbs and things like that, that would normally not allow you to lob the ball.

And yes if he is stuck on an RT he should go with the 98 and a Halo.

[SniperSmurf]

I would highly recomend a 98 custom(or whatever new tippy thing they make now). I thought you had to be *special* err.. *talented* to cause a mag not to run correctly, or a cocker.
:rofl: Yeah... "talented"... :rofl:
The "new tippy thing" would be the C3. Sounds like it would be perfect for him! ;)

[RRfireblade]

You are right. I love the 98's but have seen quite a few of the A5's giving problems in the field. The Cyclone drive mechanism seems prone to breaking.
Also very common to see barrel breaks which are nearly impossible to clean on field.

I disagree.

Cyclone works perfectly as designed. There was a short run of ratchets that were made too soft and wore somewhat prematurely (1-2 years of use...maybe) but it was a comparitively small number and rectified very quickly and easily and is no longer an issue.

Barrel breaks are no more comon than any other marker , perhaps even less so since the flatline barrel is excessively oversized in bore. Now it does require quality paint to maintain decent accuracy but that's pretty common across the board as well. And should paint get broken in it it does need to be thoroughly cleaned before continued use.

[GT]

:rofl: Yeah... "talented"... :rofl:
The "new tippy thing" would be the C3. Sounds like it would be perfect for him! ;)


I just checked there website, I meant the custom pro. I knew they came out with some kind of uber 98, just wasnt sure what it was called.

[VFX_Fenix]

Cyclone works perfectly as designed. There was a short run of ratchets that were made too soft and wore somewhat prematurely (1-2 years of use...maybe) but it was a comparitively small number and rectified very quickly and easily and is no longer an issue.

Barrel breaks are no more comon than any other marker , perhaps even less so since the flatline barrel is excessively oversized in bore. Now it does require quality paint to maintain decent accuracy but that's pretty common across the board as well. And should paint get broken in it it does need to be thoroughly cleaned before continued use.

I've owned my A-5 basically from the day they were released and I've yet to come across a problem with it (even before the cyclone update was installed). Screw the tank in and run with it. Cyclone works as advertised, all around solid gun. The gun's solid, heavy, but solid.

Learning curve on the Flatline can be pretty steep, there are issues of paint to use, ideal velocities to chrono at, etc. that can be frustrating for people who just want it to work. Once it's figured out though, the Flatline's a peach. Paint of choice seems to be Evil or Marbs/All Star/Slam/etc. for the Flatline.

And for the record, my Mag has given me more headaches in the year-ish period I've owned it than my A-5 ever has.

[slade]

Cyclone works perfectly as designed. There was a short run of ratchets that were made too soft and wore somewhat prematurely (1-2 years of use...maybe) but it was a comparitively small number and rectified very quickly and easily and is no longer an issue.
my friend had one of those, he just called tippmann, gave them his address, and they sent him one. very good customer service.

[Cow hunter]

i realize why people see the cyclone as a blender, because it has a blender like function of spinning the wheel thing, and that looks like a blender....... and the cyclone is a good system, everyone on AO is just jealous......

[nippinout]

To be fair I play more speedball. I commonly see people using this marker for a purpose it wasn't really designed for.

For what purpose, besides sending paint downfield? Is it because Tippmanns are not used in the PSP or NPPL? The gun shoots paint just like any other gun. Owning a particular gun does not force you into any sort of special purpose use.

You have fallen for the hype and the marketing. If you are dead set on keeping him away from Tippmanns, you should fix the Matrix, or have it teched professionally.

[slade]

For what purpose, besides sending paint downfield? Is it because Tippmanns are not used in the PSP or NPPL? The gun shoots paint just like any other gun. Owning a particular gun does not force you into any sort of special purpose use.

You have fallen for the hype and the marketing. If you are dead set on keeping him away from Tippmanns, you should fix the Matrix, or have it teched professionally.
sure you can use a tippmann for speedball, but its a woodsball marker. A5s are home in the woods, theyre huge and cumbersome... and need i mention the cyclone feed and hopper? id take a spyder over a tippmann on a speedball field any day... unless maybe it was a C3 just for the hell of it :p

[nippinout]

sure you can use a tippmann for speedball, but its a woodsball marker. A5s are home in the woods, theyre huge and cumbersome... and need i mention the cyclone feed and hopper? id take a spyder over a tippmann on a speedball field any day... unless maybe it was a C3 just for the hell of it :p

Have you ever held an A-5? It is in no way 'huge and cumbersome'.

[slade]

Have you ever held an A-5? It is in no way 'huge and cumbersome'.
yes, i have shot and played with one a number of times, and they are large compared to other markers, and just plain not a speedball marker.

[Wizzman]

DO NOT use the flatline for 3 reasons....
1;curve like mad
2;breaks happen and cleaning that is hell
3;the whole marker must be taken apart to get it off.....

but other than that tippy's are good, just dont pull too fast or you chop......
this is unbiased, ive used tippy's since i started playing, they're great, but theres better out there

obviously people will tell you to get mags, i suggest it too, nothing better IMHO
for electro's.... problems are inevitable...... same as any other, but more prevelant an issue in anything with a battery..... not only that, but you cant throw them around and clean them in the sink

I owned an A-5 since the day it came out with the flatline and never had a problem with the flatline. You don't have to take apart the whole gun to get it off. All you do is twist it and it pulls right off. Breaks rarely happend with me even whith the reactive trigger. The cyclone is wonderfull and if I can remember correctly I had maybe like 2 balls break in it bc I was using crappy paint. The gun is extremely reliable and has never broken down on me even treating it like ****. Though I do love my mag and it is also very reliable as well. A-5 is great but $425 is a lot for that marker...

-Wizz-

[punkncat]

For what purpose, besides sending paint downfield? Is it because Tippmanns are not used in the PSP or NPPL? The gun shoots paint just like any other gun. Owning a particular gun does not force you into any sort of special purpose use.

You have fallen for the hype and the marketing. If you are dead set on keeping him away from Tippmanns, you should fix the Matrix, or have it teched professionally.


LOLOLOLOL!!!! :D :rofl: :D :clap:

Oh yeah. Gotta love using a marker as long as an extention ladder on the airball field. I think a rail mounted scope would be awesome for sweetspotting off the break......mmmm I can see it now.......


Oh and I am not particualrly dead set on keeping him away from a Tippy.....just exploring other possibilities.

[bleachit]

Oh yeah. Gotta love using a marker as long as an extention ladder on the airball field. I think a rail mounted scope would be awesome for sweetspotting off the break......mmmm I can see it now.......



yeah, Tippys are friggin long... so long infact, that my 98 is shorter in length than both my spyder and the automag I had...

the only reason a tippy is any longer than any other marker is if you put a big freakin barrel on it... nippinout was correct when he said

"You have fallen for the hype and the marketing."

[Ace12GA]

Half the guys I play with use 98C's and A5's. I have had to fix a couple of the 98C's at the field a few times. Never had to work on one of the A5's. The 98C that gave me the most headache was the one with a flatline barrel. What a pain in the *** that thing was to get apart. The owner knew how to take it apart, and it still took forever to take it apart. That said, there is nothing wrong with the Tippmans, they're good markers. I have serious issues with the flatline barrels, but thats my experience with only one.

That said, why not try to get him into a Pro Classic. Nice and cheap, LVL7 bolt, no buggering around. Both my mags are still LVL7, and they don't chop. Well, thats not true, one of them chopped some ****ty brittle old paint I was just using up one day. We're talking 0 bounce paint. Drop it from 5 feet onto the concrete floor and watch it explode; even with that crap paint it still only chopped one out of roughly 60 balls. I walk all over Tippman owners with my 2 classic mags.

It would be fair to say I am somewhat biased too.

[11 Bravo]

Leave your friend alone and let him get what he wants.

Tippmanns do fine in psp. Tippmann effect isnt too bad. They came in second in their division at World Cup. I saw them in action....not too bad. :shooting:

[slade]

Leave your friend alone and let him get what he wants.
friends dont let friends spend $425 on a mech A5 :ninja:

[11 Bravo]

I missed the 425 part. Imo that is rediculous, but he wants the gimmicks that come on the Stealth and its his money. So let him do it.

[Automaggot68]

Have you ever held an A-5? It is in no way 'huge and cumbersome'.

You're forgetting that Martha (slade) sits down to pee.

[SniperSmurf]

friends dont let friends spend $425 on a mech A5 :ninja:
Damn, slade! Where are you lookin' at A5s?!? ;) For a mech (no RT or Flatline) A5, you can pick one up for around $225 brand new. I've seen packages WITH the RT and Flatline for as little as $330.

[slade]

Damn, slade! Where are you lookin' at A5s?!? ;) For a mech (no RT or Flatline) A5, you can pick one up for around $225 brand new. I've seen packages WITH the RT and Flatline for as little as $330.
you might want to ask the thread starter, or next time read the whole thread...

[Magman99]

Well I Own a 98c and and A-5 (won one)(<--woah) anyway I can list a few pros and cons...



98:PROS

Amazing Relabilty
Solid Metal Parts
Efficient
Many Parts availible for upgrades
Fairly acurate depending on barrel
Good Tippmann quality

98: Cons

Most ANNOYING GUN EVER TO PUT BACK TOGETHER!!!
stock barrel is pretty crappy
the feed neck shakes because it is collapseable sp?
They arent that fast (incase thats a concern)
recoil (which can actually be kinda fun)



A-5: Pros
Amazing reliability
mostly metal but some parts are plastic
Cyclone feed makes it pretty fast
MANY Upgrades
With the RT or E-Grip you can make a painthose
stock hopper can hold 220 rounds
Great Tippmann Quality
You can DISASSEMBLE IT IN 60 SECONDS!

A-5 Cons:
Bad Stock Barrel
With a 14inch barrel and a combat stock, It can be pretty long and bulky, not so great for speed ball :(
some parts are plastic
Gas Hog
Cyclone Feed prevents regular hoppers, No Halo's Boys :(

Well those are my impressions, take it or leave it :cheers:

[SniperSmurf]

you might want to ask the thread starter, or next time read the whole thread...
I might, but I was asking you. And I did read the whole thread, but since you posted that 36 down from the original, I wasn't thinking about the original post at that particular time... Silly me!! :tard:
In case you didn't notice the ;) at the end, I was just jokin' with you man. Sorry to offend.

[slade]

I might, but I was asking you. And I did read the whole thread, but since you posted that 36 down from the original, I wasn't thinking about the original post at that particular time... Silly me!! :tard:
In case you didn't notice the ;) at the end, I was just jokin' with you man. Sorry to offend.
im not offended, i was just referring to the origional poster. i dont look at A5s, and if i were to look at a $425 A5, it would just be to laugh at it... or at potential buyers.

[VFX_Fenix]

For what it's worth, the plastic bits on the A-5 aren't in "high load" sorts of applications and serve generally to make the entire gun lighter than it would be if it were entirely cast aluminum alloy like the M98/C.

All around I'd take an A-5 over an M98 except for a few select, highly specialized, applications. Taking an M98 apart is about the worst of the pits.

[PumpPlayer]

As long as you don't loose the parts, install something backwards (that little rubber detent, for example) or otherwise mess it up, 98s are great guns. A5s are great guns.

Both are more firepower than you should need for woodsball.

While I agree that topping $400 for an A5 is a little bit overpriced, I'm of the opinion that it's best to get exactly what you want the first time because it'll save you buying expensive "upgrades" in the long run. If you buddy wants an A5, let him get an A5.

Personally, it sounds like there's a lot more issues here than marker selection on his part.
If you want to be a real friend, don't badger the guy about how uncool his marker selection is and instead try to teach him how to take care of his gear. I know there's some people you just can't help. (I had a 'friend' that kept his gear in a saltwater tacklebox and the aluminum and steel galvanicaly corroded and the body turned to powder. People like that ya can't help.) But this guy sounds salvageable. And don't get on him just because he plays woodsball and doesn't want to play in "serious" games like speedball.

Let him play the game he wants with the gear he wants. The A5 is a fine choice as long as he takes care of it.