Classic 'Mag feeding problems...questions.

[JKR]

OK, I have done some searching regarding chopping in the Automag and based on what I knew already and what I could gather from numerous posts, chopping in the Automag is mostly caused by about three things...force of the bolt moving forward (enter LX), nubbin problems (incorrectly adjusted wire or worn plastic ones), and the choice of hopper.

(Went back and put my questions in bold since I rambled on for a while! ;) )

Now, I have owned my Level 7 Classic Automag for just over a year. When I bought it, I had a PF/HL body. I am used to being able to sight down the barrel, so recently I got a standard feed right stainless body. First day out with it was a nightmare. I chopped paint like there was no tomorrow. I spoke with the field owner (a long-time 'Mag user) and he is a firm believer that wire nubbin is better at keeping the ball from moving forward than a plastic nubbin. Therefore, he believes that part of my problem is the plastic nubbin I am using. Never heard that one before...usually the plastic nubbin is always preferred over wire. So, has anyone ever felt or heard from anyone else that the wire nubbin actually offers better performance than plastic?

Admittedly, part of my problem is my hopper. I am currently stuck with a non-agitated 200 rd hopper. However, with my PF/HL body, I didn't really have any problems with feeding at the BPS rate I play at using a non-agitated hopper. I realize that the standard feed body was phased out in favor of the power feed but I have also heard others say they didn't notice a big difference in feeding problems between the two. I do plan on getting another motorized hopper soon (even more priority now) so hopefully this part of the equation will soon be resolved. Again, all was well with the powerfeed body. Would "downgrading" to the standard right feed body affect the feed rate that much?

My barrel and paint choice shouldn't be my problem. I was using Marballizer that day and I have checked the paint and it is all in the .688 range. My barrel is a SP Progressive so I should have had a pretty decent paint/barrel match. The plastic nubbin seems to be doing what it should and is fairly new without any visible wear. I did note, however, that when the barrel is off the 'gun I could drop a 'ball in the breech and it would pretty easily hop past the nubbin. However, when I put my finger on the barrel to simulate the body applying pressure to the barrel and nubbin (as it would when the barrel is in place), it was a bit better at stopping the 'ball from jumping past the nubbin. However, I did note that the breech was larger than the actual barrel bore to allow for bolt travel. However, I am not sure if there was an excessive amount of room there. Does anyone know if there are different sizes between the barrel manufacturers in the area of the barrel in which the bolt travels? Do higher dollar barrels offer tighter tolerances and therefore less chance of the ball moving past the nubbin as it first drops into place?

Also, I have had the same main spring in there for a year now. I have probably put about two or three cases through it over the past year (still use my Sniper II from time to time!) It is still longer than the bolt nose but may have lost some of it's strength and does seem to be a bit shorter than when new. Will a worn bolt spring also cause feeding problems? I have read that some folks replace them monthly to avoid bolt stick but I haven't had any noticeable bolt stick so I didn't even think about it.

Sorry I rambled on but I would appreciate any thoughts on this feeding problem. I certainly don't want to take the 'Mag out another day like this last one!

Thanks,
Justin

EDIT: Sorry, I meant to put this in the Tech Forum. Moderators, please feel free to move!

[Beemer]

Well you didnt mention how it performed with the power feed body. Did you get chops with it. If not you answered this question.


Would "downgrading" to the standard right feed body affect the feed rate that much?

[JKR]

Well you didnt mention how it performed with the power feed body. Did you get chops with it. If not you answered this question.


I mentioned it in paragraph three...

"However, with my PF/HL body, I didn't really have any problems with feeding at the BPS rate I play at using a non-agitated hopper."

"Again, all was well with the powerfeed body."

Just wondering if there was more to it than just the body as I have read others say they see no difference.


Admittedly, it is hard to follow my ramblings! :eek:

[Beemer]

My bad. Still had sand in my eyes and beer on the brain.[more coffee] :tard:

Ok so you only changed one thing. What does that tell us.

Get a better hopper, and or put the power feed back on.


"Again, all was well with the powerfeed body."

Does your barrel have one or two nubbies. Do you ever double feed? Are all the o rings on the barrel to hold the nubbies

If you dont care about 16ozs and a few $$ put a warp feed body on it with I frame and Intelli it. Its the only way to go. Nice clear siteing all down the barrel. Thats my set up cause Im like you. And I NEVER chop with level 7


I am used to being able to sight down the barrel

Peace Out

_____________

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/AoIL.gif

[punkncat]

More likely you are experiencing problems with blowback. The Standard Feed body doesn't have a vent hole for air to escape so it goes back up the hopper causing the balls to bobble back up as well.

[JKR]

More likely you are experiencing problems with blowback. The Standard Feed body doesn't have a vent hole for air to escape so it goes back up the hopper causing the balls to bobble back up as well.

There is a hole in the tube for the standard feed but I am unsure if it really helps that much with blowback. If blowback is the problem, I am not sure an agitated hopper will help much with that as it will still alllow balls to be pushed back up the feed tube. Unless there is a gravity hopper out there that will not allow balls to be pushed up. I am thinking the Richochet AK might not allow balls to be pushed back up because of the sensor reed that it uses to trip the motor. I might be wrong on that, however.

The barrel just has one nubbin and both orings are present and accounted for. Beemer, do you know any barrel on the market currently that accept two nubbins? That would certainly reduce the instances I noticed of balls jumping past the single nubbin. Oh, and yes...I do have an occasional double feed. That is one reason I thought that there might some credibility to the guy I referred to in my initial post saying that the wire nubbin was a better choice--you can "tune" them a little.

Another guy I know uses the standard feed body with a Revvy and he doesn't complain. Maybe the combination of the blowback and potentially slower feed rate just magnifies my need for a motorized hopper. Perhaps the barrel breech ID, plastic nubbin, and bolt spring have nothing to do with my problem...

[Beemer]

The barrel just has one nubbin and both orings are present and accounted for. Beemer, do you know any barrel on the market currently that accept two nubbins? That would certainly reduce the instances I noticed of balls jumping past the single nubbin. Oh, and yes...I do have an occasional double feed. That is one reason I thought that there might some credibility to the guy I referred to in my initial post saying that the wire nubbin was a better choice--you can "tune" them a little.

Another guy I know uses the standard feed body with a Revvy and he doesn't complain. Maybe the combination of the blowback and potentially slower feed rate just magnifies my need for a motorized hopper. Perhaps the barrel breech ID, plastic nubbin, and bolt spring have nothing to do with my problem...

My stock AGD barrels for RT Classic and warp left E-Mag both have double nubbins. E mag is twist left and RT is twist right. Maybe talk to Rogue or Tuna about a Barrel OR put a wire nubbie in it[tune] and see what happens. All my other after market barrels only have one.

GET a BETTER Hopper :cheers:

Peace Out

[Tao]

OK, I have done some searching regarding chopping in the Automag and based on what I knew already and what I could gather from numerous posts, chopping in the Automag is mostly caused by about three things...force of the bolt moving forward (enter LX), nubbin problems (incorrectly adjusted wire or worn plastic ones), and the choice of hopper.

(Went back and put my questions in bold since I rambled on for a while! ;) )

Now, I have owned my Level 7 Classic Automag for just over a year. When I bought it, I had a PF/HL body. I am used to being able to sight down the barrel, so recently I got a standard feed right stainless body. First day out with it was a nightmare. I chopped paint like there was no tomorrow. I spoke with the field owner (a long-time 'Mag user) and he is a firm believer that wire nubbin is better at keeping the ball from moving forward than a plastic nubbin. Therefore, he believes that part of my problem is the plastic nubbin I am using. Never heard that one before...usually the plastic nubbin is always preferred over wire. So, has anyone ever felt or heard from anyone else that the wire nubbin actually offers better performance than plastic?

Admittedly, part of my problem is my hopper. I am currently stuck with a non-agitated 200 rd hopper. However, with my PF/HL body, I didn't really have any problems with feeding at the BPS rate I play at using a non-agitated hopper. I realize that the standard feed body was phased out in favor of the power feed but I have also heard others say they didn't notice a big difference in feeding problems between the two. I do plan on getting another motorized hopper soon (even more priority now) so hopefully this part of the equation will soon be resolved. Again, all was well with the powerfeed body. Would "downgrading" to the standard right feed body affect the feed rate that much?

My barrel and paint choice shouldn't be my problem. I was using Marballizer that day and I have checked the paint and it is all in the .688 range. My barrel is a SP Progressive so I should have had a pretty decent paint/barrel match. The plastic nubbin seems to be doing what it should and is fairly new without any visible wear. I did note, however, that when the barrel is off the 'gun I could drop a 'ball in the breech and it would pretty easily hop past the nubbin. However, when I put my finger on the barrel to simulate the body applying pressure to the barrel and nubbin (as it would when the barrel is in place), it was a bit better at stopping the 'ball from jumping past the nubbin. However, I did note that the breech was larger than the actual barrel bore to allow for bolt travel. However, I am not sure if there was an excessive amount of room there. Does anyone know if there are different sizes between the barrel manufacturers in the area of the barrel in which the bolt travels? Do higher dollar barrels offer tighter tolerances and therefore less chance of the ball moving past the nubbin as it first drops into place?

Also, I have had the same main spring in there for a year now. I have probably put about two or three cases through it over the past year (still use my Sniper II from time to time!) It is still longer than the bolt nose but may have lost some of it's strength and does seem to be a bit shorter than when new. Will a worn bolt spring also cause feeding problems? I have read that some folks replace them monthly to avoid bolt stick but I haven't had any noticeable bolt stick so I didn't even think about it.

Sorry I rambled on but I would appreciate any thoughts on this feeding problem. I certainly don't want to take the 'Mag out another day like this last one!

Thanks,
Justin

EDIT: Sorry, I meant to put this in the Tech Forum. Moderators, please feel free to move!


I have used a clasic mag continuously for over a year (a few years ago :P) and I definelty will say it is the NON AGITATING hopper. I could shoot fairly well but eventually I would always chop a ball since it would not feed completly. A simble Revolution 2 solve this problem for me and I never chopped a ball with it again.

[peewee]

With a standard right feed I chopped alot untill I got a revi, then I got an ak & really like that havent chopped yet.

[BigEvil]

Get some sort of motorized loader. There is a reason why AGD invented the powerfeed. Interesting enough, it was right before the motorized loaders hit the scene.

Also, you should be using lvl10. At the very least, the lvl7 foamy bolt. ESPECIALLY if you are using a vl200.

LVL 10 is by far the best investment a mag owner can make. Even if you have trouble setting it up, there are lots of friendly folks right here that can help you out.

[JKR]

Thanks guys. I have been putting off the purchase of a motorized hopper after being burned when I bought a defective Reloader II a while back. Looks like if I am going to stick with the standard feed that I should invest in a motorized hopper ASAP. No one has mentioned blowback being a problem with a motorized hopper but I think the AK is the hopper I want anyway,

L10 just isn't something I want to mess with right now. My long nose bolt did fine before and I expect if I can get the thing to feed, it will be fine again. I will be using CO2 in the 'gun during the summer months and really like the simplicity of the the Level 7 design. No carriers and such to fuss with and I don't have to worry so much about the higher pressure needed for the L10 when I decide to use my 16 ouncer.

BTW, how would foamy bolt would help me with chopping paint fed from a VL200? Slicing them is the problem, not impact? Right? Would a foamy help some way? Maybe I am missing something there.

Has anyone ever tested for the amount of blowback in a standard feed vs a power feed? Just wondering if there was any real-world data out there showing how much blowback affects the two designs.

I had contemplated using my 'Mag for an upcoming limited paint scenario game but it sounds like I should definitely stick with my Sniper II. I can just imagine the paint blowing back up my stick feeder!

Thanks again,

Justin

[Tao]

I havent had a mag blow back up the feed tube I mean something like a pirahna. Even my old power feed raptor would send chunks all the way up the power feed tube.

A zfaomy will do little to solve your current problem...it will only help on rainy/cold days or with very brittle tourney paint (if you are crazy enough to bring that think into speedball :P)

[JKR]

A zfaomy will do little to solve your current problem...it will only help on rainy/cold days or with very brittle tourney paint (if you are crazy enough to bring that think into speedball :P)


Oh, I wouldn't hesitate to use it in speedball. I frequently play rec ball (speedball included) with my Sniper II so I don't think the 'Mag is slow in comparison!