Jabronies on SI

[BigEvil]

--------From todays NY post-------------

Staten Island

Three teenagers were arrested after they fired paintballs at a school bus in Eltingville, police sources said yesterday.

Michael Venanzini, Nicholas Malgieri and Michael Schulmann, all 17, were in a white SUV near a school bus at the intersection of Petrus and Wainwright avenues at 3:15 p.m. Wednesday, the sources said. At least one of the teens allegedly used an air pistol to fire the black paintballs, several of which hit the bus.

The driver called police and gave a description of the SUV and its plate number. Police stopped the SUV and spotted the barrel of a paintball gun jutting from a knapsack inside, sources said.


My first reaction was that this was young children, but then I realized that they were old enough to drive. I hate kids. Now the cops where I live will flip-out at the mere mention of paintball.

To the three assclowns involved, you have now managed to:
-bring much un-needed negative attention to the game
-make life for the SI outlaw-ball groups more difficult (especially the bunch that play at the Ward)
-make all SI ballers look bad
-and make yourselves look like ***holes.

Congratulations.

[Lohman446]

And everytime a crime is committed with a baseball bat everyone associates it with the game of baseball...

/Or not

[BigEvil]

And everytime a crime is committed with a baseball bat everyone associates it with the game of baseball...

/Or not

If they called baseball bats baseball-guns then it sure would.

SI is a small place. There is a harmony between the paintball community and the NYC police that took 14 years to develope. Not only on the Island, but throughout NYC. It wasnt until a couple of years ago, that ANY type of paintball business could even legally sell markers. Any store that was paintball related was regularly paid visits by the police checking up on them. Operation Stingray in brooklyn, which is a scuba shop that also deals PB gear, was cited a few times for various reasons.

There is a fairly large outlaw movement on SI as well. Over the years, the number of places that we could play quickly shrank. We are down to 2 or 3 now, the "Mental Ward" being on of the biggest and most well known. To this point, the cops have been cool with anyone playing there. Crap like this will QUICKLY lead to unwanted attention.

Not to mention the one and ONLY field in NYC that is on SI. If these schmucks bought the gear and paintballs they used there, then the cops will be all over them like white on rice. (especailly if they are under 18)

So please do not make such ridiculous comparisons.

[marpat]

If they called baseball bats baseball-guns then it sure would.

SI is a small place. There is a harmony between the paintball community and the NYC police that took 14 years to develope. Not only on the Island, but throughout NYC. It wasnt until a couple of years ago, that ANY type of paintball business could even legally sell markers. Any store that was paintball related was regularly paid visits by the police checking up on them. Operation Stingray in brooklyn, which is a scuba shop that also deals PB gear, was cited a few times for various reasons.

There is a fairly large outlaw movement on SI as well. Over the years, the number of places that we could play quickly shrank. We are down to 2 or 3 now, the "Mental Ward" being on of the biggest and most well known. To this point, the cops have been cool with anyone playing there. Crap like this will QUICKLY lead to unwanted attention.

Not to mention the one and ONLY field in NYC that is on SI. If these schmucks bought the gear and paintballs they used there, then the cops will be all over them like white on rice. (especailly if they are under 18)

So please do not make such ridiculous comparisons.

Man that sux... I play at the ward! BigEvil is right when he said it's a delicate relationship between us outlaw ballers and the cops there. We keep the paint on the field and they leave us alone. Unfortunately the area surrounding the ward is being developed and the size of the playing fields is slowly and surely decreasing. Hopefully we'll have 1 or 2 more years before it all goes to residential / commercial development. Other than "The Ward" S.I paintball is super overpriced.

Stupid kids.

[Rudz]

For every idiot like this, they should have posters showing the pb community how dumb they are..and post em everywhere..so we all know who theyy are, and they look rediculous..

[SummaryJudgement]

Jabronies!

[BigEvil]

I play at the ward!

How come I dont know you? We must have played together at some point?

**Edit: btw, The Seaview Farm Colony, which we lovingly refer to as "The Mental Ward", was declared a historical landmark by NYC. When the little leauge field was built, activist groups flipped out. Basically, everything is supposed to be 'hands-off' until some kind of deal can be made to actually preserve the buildings and grounds. There was a group that wanted to level everything and build condos, which fortunately, didnt happen. Whomever is going to do anything on the site will be required to preserve the existing structures. Which is why it has been so difficult for anyone to build anything there.

I havent been over there in a few months, I hope nothing else was demolished recently.

If anyone is curious, there are pics in my Jayloo gallery of the Ward.
Here (http://www.jayloo.com/photo_gallery/gallery.html?pUID=111&pPAGE_NUM=8&pGROUP_ID=13&pSHOW_ME=user&ob=desc&o=1&pLTR=)

[Lohman446]

I don't think its a ridiculous comparison.

I'm sure when you play you have express permission to play wherever you are playing and are not just "sneaking" onto federal/state/private land and hoping to get away with it. Assuming that is the case you really have nothing to worry about from the police.

If you do not have permission, well... thats a whole new ball game and I would cautiously suggest you need to look at your own actions.

[BigEvil]

This could have wide spread impact on the paintball community here, not just the outlaw players . Bad publicity makes people start to look at things closer. Non-players see kids running around with 'guns shooting things'. PERIOD. All I can say is I am extremely grateful that no one got hurt. Kids will be kids, and we all did stupid things when we were young, but the anti-gun movement in NY is absurd to begin with. All it takes is something like this to get blown out of proportion to give them a reason to start 'regulating' changing laws, or whatever it is those freaks do.

Isolated incident or not. The SI golf driving range went through hell to get a permit to open SIPB. I know for a fact that the police used to keep a close eye on what was sold over the counter there. There is also a small scuba shop nearbye that fills paintball bottles, and rents scuba tanks. Paintballers are a nice peice of his business, so much so that he said he was going to start selling paint.

If those kids purchased their guns, paint, or air from either of these places, and someone got hurt in the incident, then they would be sued. While it may nto be my problem, I certainly dont want to see the pb businesses in the area affected.

In the 14 years I have played outlaw ball on SI, I have hed 2 run-ins with the cops. Once on an easter Sunday when someone saw us "with guns" and the other time when we got pulled over because we were 'a car full of people wearing camoflage''.

Of course, we all should be cautious of our own action. Duh. But all it take is one retard to screw things up for the rest of us. Im not sure what part of the country you live in, but here its different than in most of the real world. Myself, and many other players that I know go out of their way to make sure things do not get ruined in our little corner of the world. Whether by buying the chrono, bringing extra barrel plugs or goggles, helping the new guys, enforcing safety to our best extent. It also has meant that sometimes we have to police ourselves.

There was also an incident about two years ago where some 10 year old shot out his neighbors kids eye. That is still fresh in everyones mind. When my friend called me this morning to tell me about the post article, he even mentioned that , and he lives in NJ.

Staten Island used to be largely wooded. That was 25 years ago. THere are still large parts that are wooded, out of the way, and publicly owned. No one really has to go 'sneaking in' anywhere. We drive right in and set up camp. As long as no one does anything stupid, no one bothers anyone.

and if anyone talks about 'sneaking in' to places, then im sure that they never played baseball, football, or freeze-tag when they were kids in places they werent supposed to be in.


So im sorry if I am up on my peddistal today, but I dont want crap like this to **** things for me or the rest of us.

[usagi_tetsu]

For every idiot like this, they should have posters showing the pb community how dumb they are..and post em everywhere..so we all know who theyy are, and they look rediculous..

It's usually not the players from the paintball community who commit stupidity like this. Oh, I'm sure one or more of these kids has played rec-ball at a local field, but nothing like on a regular basis. It's people outside of the community that make us inside the community look bad. It's our job as the players inside the community that we fling paint on fields against other players (or at targets on enclosed target ranges), and everyone involved is there of their own free will and said people are also using all the required safety features: masks, barrel blocking devices, and chronys. Even after we show 'em how we play, people are still going to associate our sport with violence. What can we do about this, ultimately? We're never going to rid ourselves of the image that paintball is inherently violent in some peoples' eyes. You can't please everyone. All we can do is to keep putting out the truth of our sport, and maybe they'll start listening to us.

[marpat]

How come I dont know you? We must have played together at some point?

**Edit: btw, The Seaview Farm Colony, which we lovingly refer to as "The Mental Ward", was declared a historical landmark by NYC. When the little leauge field was built, activist groups flipped out. Basically, everything is supposed to be 'hands-off' until some kind of deal can be made to actually preserve the buildings and grounds. There was a group that wanted to level everything and build condos, which fortunately, didnt happen. Whomever is going to do anything on the site will be required to preserve the existing structures. Which is why it has been so difficult for anyone to build anything there.

I havent been over there in a few months, I hope nothing else was demolished recently.

If anyone is curious, there are pics in my Jayloo gallery of the Ward.
Here (http://www.jayloo.com/photo_gallery/gallery.html?pUID=111&pPAGE_NUM=8&pGROUP_ID=13&pSHOW_ME=user&ob=desc&o=1&pLTR=)

Well I go there irregularly.. i'm usually there with a couple of friends of mine decked out in the MARPAT gear. we may have played a couple of times. Good thing to know about it being a land mark. everything is pretty much the same.. except more gated areas. probably to keep the animals out of the open buildings.

[Lohman446]

. Even after we show 'em how we play, people are still going to associate our sport with violence. What can we do about this, ultimately? We're never going to rid ourselves of the image that paintball is inherently violent in some peoples' eyes.

Because it is inherently violent. In the end we are "shooting" at each other. Have we taken steps to make it as safe as possible? Of course we have. But that does not make in "non-violent". Don't get too worried about tags, what we do is violent.

[11 Bravo]

I hope Charles Schumer doesnt hear about this.. :(


....I hate him.

[LS1 WS6]

Jabronies!

I don't mean to sound like some west coast fool, but, what does Jabronies mean?

[BigEvil]

I don't mean to sound like some west coast fool, but, what does Jabronies mean?


You never watched WWE and saw the Rock do one of his famous promos?

[usagi_tetsu]

Because it is inherently violent. In the end we are "shooting" at each other. Have we taken steps to make it as safe as possible? Of course we have. But that does not make in "non-violent". Don't get too worried about tags, what we do is violent.

No, I'd say what the Army has taught me to do to others before they do unto me is violent, while paintball is merely a sport. I like my friends, and yes, I do shoot them with paintballs, but I get to have beers with them after the game. Kind of hard to do that with the guy you just let walk into your overlapping fields of fire and let him have it with machinegun fire, mortars, claymores, and possibly even direct fire from armor. Violence is not defined by the act, but the intention.

[Lohman446]

No, I'd say what the Army has taught me to do to others before they do unto me is violent, while paintball is merely a sport. I like my friends, and yes, I do shoot them with paintballs, but I get to have beers with them after the game. Kind of hard to do that with the guy you just let walk into your overlapping fields of fire and let him have it with machinegun fire, mortars, claymores, and possibly even direct fire from armor. Violence is not defined by the act, but the intention.

Violence does not necessarily mean deadly. Is paintball consensual? Of course. Still violent? Most decidedly

[shartley]

While I hate seeing things like this on/in the news they don’t really worry me any more. Why? Because we have seen them for YEARS and paintball is still going strong.

All the same arguments about baseball bats, golf clubs, and other sporting equipment keep coming up with the same results. Crimes committed with any of these are reported just like they are with paintball markers. The Public Perception folks keep worrying about seems more in the minds of some paintball players than in the general public’s.

This is not minimizing the problem of using paintball markers in illegal and improper ways, but it shows that since these very same things have been happening for 15 years (if not longer); and the sport is not only still being played but is growing; they don’t have the huge affect some people would like to claim they do. It seems some paintball players are making more of these things than the general public is…..

[WingMan13]

I don't think we have aything to worry about on S.I. or in the city as long as your careful. They were under age and brought the attention onto themselves. Most of the attention will be on where they got the paintball marker from, and of course mommy and daddy bought it for them. Now we run a risk playing outlaw but the cops that patrol the area of the Ward are very aware of what goes on in there and of course its all up to the officers discretion.

[BigEvil]

Violence does not necessarily mean deadly. Is paintball consensual? Of course. Still violent? Most decidedly


Maybe "Aggressive" is a better word. "Violent" implies the intent to cause harm.

[tyrion2323]

Because it is inherently violent. In the end we are "shooting" at each other. Have we taken steps to make it as safe as possible? Of course we have. But that does not make in "non-violent". Don't get too worried about tags, what we do is violent.

vi·o·lent
adj.
1. Marked by, acting with, or resulting from great force: a violent attack.
2. Having or showing great emotional force: violent dislike.
3. Marked by intensity; extreme: violent pain; a violent squall. See Synonyms at intense.
4. Caused by unexpected force or injury rather than by natural causes: a violent death.
5. Tending to distort or injure meaning, phrasing, or intent.

No, paintball is not inherently violent.

Perhaps you mean aggressive.

[hitech]

While I hate seeing things like this on/in the news they don’t really worry me any more. Why? Because we have seen them for YEARS and paintball is still going strong.


But not on it's own. It took a lot of work on many peoples part. Paintball has been BANNED in ENTIRE states before.

And NYC seems like it is much more sensitive than most other places. While this ONE incident won't likely change things, another one in the near future might just be enough.

[shartley]

But not on it's own. It took a lot of work on many peoples part. Paintball has been BANNED in ENTIRE states before.

And NYC seems like it is much more sensitive than most other places. While this ONE incident won't likely change things, another one in the near future might just be enough.
Please point out what states have BANNED paintball for the entire state. I have seen legislation which at first glance LOOKED as if it banned paintball but in fact did not. I have seen folks make claims online that states have banned paintball but in fact they did not.

I am not trying to be rude, but I would like to see fact as to what states actually banned paintball for the ENTIRE state. Not proposed legislation, but actual laws which banned the sport completely for the entire state.

I know certain cities and towns that have restrictions on paintball and even have it banned within the city limits, but I know of no state that has actually successfully banned the sport for the entire state.

[hitech]

Please point out what states have BANNED paintball for the entire state.

If I remember correctly it was either Illinois or Wisconson. Email Jessica Sparks and ask. I'm sure she remembers.

[cioeboy]

If I remember correctly it was either Illinois or Wisconson. Email Jessica Sparks and ask. I'm sure she remembers.
there was a bill in the illinois legislature that could have possibly affected paintball but it was changed so it dosnt affect paintball at all

[shartley]

there was a bill in the illinois legislature that could have possibly affected paintball but it was changed so it dosnt affect paintball at allCorrect. And it has happened a few times over the years with other states but never actually put into law from what I can remember.

[hitech]

there was a bill in the illinois legislature that could have possibly affected paintball but it was changed so it dosnt affect paintball at all

BTW, I'm talking about the 1980s. Are we in the same time frame?

[Lohman446]

Give it time....its a slippery slope that has to start somewhere :ninja:

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2002/01/01-10-02tdc/01-10-02dnews-09.asp


The law states it is illegal to carry a loaded or operational paintball gun on a public highway, meaning the gun must be unloaded or disarmed.

Whats wrong with that? It serves a purpose without infringing on play (assuming its not worded badly). There are laws for carrying of firearms in your vehicle. People still hunt and participate in shooting sports.

[BigEvil]

Give it time....its a slippery slope that has to start somewhere :ninja:

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2002/01/01-10-02tdc/01-10-02dnews-09.asp


Look at Rogue jumping in with the goods. :cool:

Actually, we got pulled over once by a PA state trooper coming back from Skirmish. He basically said the same thing that the article says, but that was 5 years ago. The troopers "prefered" they be dissasembled and locked in a case.

[shartley]

BTW, I'm talking about the 1980s. Are we in the same time frame?No. But I am interested in seeing documented proof, not just hear say or vague memories. I don’t say this to be rude, but honestly.

[Lohman446]

First off I agree entirely with you on the negative ramifications of the historic New Jersey issue.

The recent Illinois one was never intended to target paintball, though the wording was poor, and it was good to have changed.

The idea that having to take markers apart to travel would hurt the sport.. come its a valid argument. There are problems on the roads from people using paintball markers, forcing a more secure form of transport is not unreasonable.

[shartley]

The law described in this legislation could have been detrimental.

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/articles/news/020306_illinois_bill.shtml

Paintball is still going strong because of people like Gretchen Shay that have been fighting for this recreational sport.
And anyone who actually followed that (as I did) knows that there was really no real threat. It was first draft verbiage which was shot down rather quickly. This is how laws are drafted and the process they take.

Here is some history.This is going waaaaaay back, but some here may rememeber the ramifications of this legal battle. Can you imagine New Jersey without paintball?

http://www.topgunpaintball.com/History_of_Paintball.html
This is about the closest I have seen so far concerning banning paintball. But in this case it was not really banning paintball, but because of how the laws were written paintball would fall under statutes that would make playing the sport illegal. That of course is much different than setting out to ban paintball.

I thank all those who have done their part (to include myself) for standing up for paintball and making sure the sport stays strong. Many of us have done our part over the years with letter writing campaigns, phone calls, e-mails, and other things which have helped keep the sport from becoming illegal for one reason or another.

But with that said, I still don’t think that every time something comes up that folks need to act as if the sky is falling or that the sport is in eminent peril. It is though rational and calm vigil that keeps things on track. And I don’t think the sport is in any danger of being banned in any state as it stands now. Sure, things were a bit touchy 15 years ago, but paintball is not a fledgling sport/activity any more IMHO.

First off I agree entirely with you on the negative ramifications of the historic New Jersey issue.

The recent Illinois one was never intended to target paintball, though the wording was poor, and it was good to have changed.

The idea that having to take markers apart to travel would hurt the sport.. come its a valid argument. There are problems on the roads from people using paintball markers, forcing a more secure form of transport is not unreasonable.
I agree.

[RogueFactor]

Here is some legislation from townships. Cedar Grove, NJ classifies paintball markers as firearms:

http://www.generalcode.com/samples/04Spr_1.html

[RogueFactor]

The recent Illinois one was never intended to target paintball, though the wording was poor, and it was good to have changed.

If the law once it is enacted could be interpreted to include paintball markers, it would effect it--regardless of its intentions.

Unless of course we believe that politicians never word legislation ambiguously to include things that arent specifically outlined :eek:

[Lohman446]

If the law once it is enacted could be interpreted to include paintball markers, it would effect it--regardless of its intentions.

Unless of course we believe that politicians never word legislation ambiguously to include things that arent specifically outlined :eek:


I agree it was horrendous wording, and it was only good that it was changed. But there is a massive difference between a legislator aiming to take out paintball and "accidentally" including it in poor wording. Look how readily that was changed to not include paintball. Yes we need to be aware of such things, but we also need to know the difference between an "attack on paintball" and reasonable legislation. Legislation insisting that markers are not in operable condition (and defining such) is certainly not an attack on paintball. Its common sense legislation to deal with a problem that has occured in the past. Chicken little syndrome, everytime paintball, intentionally or otherwise, is mentioned in legislation too many people run around screaming about the sky falling.

[Lohman446]

Easy for you to say, since your livelihood doesnt depend on this industry.

When an industry has a 15-20 year history of attempts at legislation that could threaten its livelihood, I think those most affected have a right to run around and scream.

They see the ramifications of such legislation, the slippery slope that exists, and recognize that history repeats itself.

If you dont think that politicians change tactics, re-read the New Jersey story from the Top Gun link provided.


Ehh... the "ease" of me saying it is based on a logical evaluation, at least in my opinion (your mileage may vary).

Paintball is illegal in MI if one reads the firearm laws to the letter. They are defined as firearms, thus there use comes under, at best, the dueling statute.

If a politician sets out to ban paintball, its not going to be through some backdoor effort with new legislation (perhaps old legislation being applied). If it is new legislation that bans paintball its going to be far more direct about it.

15-20 year history of a few local attempts, one state attempt that was ended, and a few errors that were corrected when found does not make the great conspiracy to end paintball that some seem to want to find. Is vigilance needed to make sure that mistakes don't cause a problem? Sure, and I applaud such efforts.

That being said, I just don't see the "slippery slope" of the PA wording. If we fight reasonable attempts we may find ourselves fighting less reasonable attempts as well. That wording encourages safe handling of equipment, discourages reckless activity using equipment improperly, and would take minimal effort on our part. I frankly think it may be in our interest to support it.

[Lohman446]

Are you suggesting a slippery slope yourself? :eek:

I don't deny the existence to some. Should we act in a way that allows the government to set base rules for our sport it would no doubt be a step in the wrong direction. However, this is not that, this is a consideration of the transport of something that has been used in the past wrongly on the road. No problem.

[Lohman446]

The reason why the PA law is now changed...


This is why "chicken little" is necessary at times(paraphrased):




http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/trib/westmoreland/s_405319.html

Interesting that it was the Gardners, and SP that stepped up in defense of all of paintball isn't it? One has to keep there eyes open, but these early drafts, or even laws that harm paintball, or not intended to, and are readily changed by the legislators when they find they have unintentionally harmed the sport.

[Lohman446]

So, this PA law addressing transport of paintball markers. Whats your stance on it? I have no doubt there are issues that need addressed, but I surely do not see this as one.

[RogueFactor]

So, this PA law addressing transport of paintball markers. Whats your stance on it? I have no doubt there are issues that need addressed, but I surely do not see this as one.

My stance is that the transportation of paintball markers should not be treated the same as the transportation of firearms.

To have to disassemble and carry the marker unloaded for transportation is an attempt to treat a paintball marker like a handgun. That requirement is nearly identical to the transportion of a handgun in California. Hence, I understand the "slippery slope" mentality.


"The bill also specifies that a marker must be disabled and empty when it is in a vehicle. The paintballs must be in a sealed container and the gun in a secure wrapper, be inaccessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle or have a barrel-blocking device installed.

Every effort should be made to disassociate a paintball marker from a firearm.

An elephant can only be eaten one bite at a time.

These little steps are attempts to create enough of a similarity between paintball markers and firearms so as to regulate them as such. And enough of these little steps can add up to one big step in the wrong direction.

[Lohman446]

My stance is that the transportation of paintball markers should not be treated the same as the transportation of firearms.

To have to disassemble and carry the marker unloaded for transportation is an attempt to treat a paintball marker like a handgun. That requirement is nearly identical to the transportion of a handgun in California. Hence, I understand the "slippery slope" mentality.



Every effort should be made to disassociate a paintball marker from a firearm.

An elephant can only be eaten one bite at a time.

These little steps are attempts to create enough of a similarity between paintball markers and firearms so as to regulate them as such. And enough of these little steps can add up to one big step in the wrong direction.

Had they said "a paintball marker must be treated and transported asa firearm" you might have something. They did not say that, they did go through and treat a paintball marker similarly to a firearm, but in actually writing the law specific to it, rather than including it in the firearm statute I would argue they actually helped that disassociation. I have no problem with the transport system they propose here, or the reasoning behind it.

And it is very similar to the federal regulations for a handgun in "transport" mode, so likely covers most every state if you were talking firearms. Though I see the similarities I don't see the attempt to combine one with the other in definition.

[hitech]

No. But I am interested in seeing documented proof, not just hear say or vague memories. I don’t say this to be rude, but honestly.


I don't have any. I just remember it. As I remember Jessica was instramental in getting the las repealed.

[Lohman446]

My opinion. Your stance is not based on why such a transport method would be overly burdensome or unreasonable. It is based on "it makes a paintball marker seem like a firearm". Don't take it as an insult, but it makes you sound paranoid