x-valve on co2, what is your setup?

[GT]

For those of you who are running your X on co2, what kind of setup are you running?

[StygShore]

x vlave to my knowledge CAN NOT be run on CO2

Styg

[Outlaw5]

The reason more people haven't responded is that the X-Valve can't run on CO2, it ruins the seals inside the valve. Whatever you do, do not use CO2 on an X-Valve. If you have an X-Valve then you need a high pressure output N2 or compressed air tank, 800 or 850 PSI preset or a nice adjustable regulator with the ability for high output. Mags like to run on anywhere from 650 to 1200 PSI. I know that seems like a large variation but every Mag is a little different that is why the 850 Preset is a great tank to have...it's inthe middle. Well Good luckand I hope you find the right tank. V/R Jerry Perkins, "Outlaw5", SF, De Oppresso Liber

[bleachit]

there have been more than one reference to folk running an X on co2... so yes, it is possible..


I believe it was Zak Vetter who had a video of his x running on a huge co2 tank via remote. and I think a few people have used 12 gram co2 cartridges on an X..


its been done.. just not recommended.

[Troen]

ask phantom, he seems to know quite abit about it

[Alpha]

Your all forgetting... Nitrogen was brought into paintball FOR the X-valve (or for whatever valve Team nitro was using.. Classic RT I think).

Nitro tanks were made for mags.

EDIT: If you use a CO2 tank on an x-valve, and it starts to leak becuase all those delecate O-rings got shot, dont come crying to AGD.

[CoolHand]

Your all forgetting... Nitrogen was brought into paintball FOR the X-valve (or for whatever valve Team nitro was using.. Classic RT I think).

Nitro tanks were made for mags.

EDIT: If you use a CO2 tank on an x-valve, and it starts to leak because all those delicate O-rings got shot, don't come crying to AGD.

Yes, of course, that INERT gas is going destroy your orings. :rolleyes: Give me a break guys. This is the same crap that circulates on the cocker forums anytime someone wants to run a cocker on CO2. "Ohhh teh noezzz the front block will corrode and your three way will explode and leak." or my personal favorite "Never run CO2, just one time is enough to destroy all your seals and corrode the body."

If the rings are clean and lubricated with a good synthetic oil, there will be zero damage. Now, that's not to say that it won't leak if they freeze, but once they thaw back out again, they'll seal right back up again, unless you take it apart and damage them while they're frozen.

I have personally run Retro Vales, RTP, EMag, and XValves on CO2. No damage, and no leaks.

That said, they just don't much care for it either. The Mag needs around 650 psi to operate correctly, but CO2 wants to go liquid at that pressure, so it's a real PITA.

You'll need to double reg it at the very least. I have found that the second gen manifold MaxFlo tank regs work very well for this. I have one with an anti-syphon tube, and it will consistently put out 600 psi without liquid. Ask more than that out of it, and you'll get a snort of liquid every once in a while.

I say try it out. You will find, as I and many other have, that its not destructive, but that it doesn't work all that well either.

That is all.

CO2 :ninja:

[REDRT]

I guess from what I read some insist that Co2 works, but I can't see it working all that great. You surely can't get the proformance out of the X-valve like it was ment to on Co2. So with that being said,"why bother"?

[Shane-O-Mac]

The o-rings in an X-valve are tougher than you think. IIRC, all the o-rings are urethane or nitrile. They are very tolerant of co2. Now, if you had your heart set on using co2 on a x-valve, I believe you can do it. Use a bottomline stabilizer, and an anti-siphon tank. set the output of the stab to 600psi. Co2 cannot stay liquid under that pressure. you wont get much reactivity for the trgger at 600psi, but the gun will run fine off 600psi. OR if you run remote, get a stabilizer and a remote line. That will be the best way to keep any liquid out of the gun. As long as liquid doesnt get in there your seals will never know a difference.

The main issue I see, is that as you shoot a string of shots, the valve warms up slightly and the velocity goes up. With Co2 in there the velocity spike may be larger. So set the velocity lower than usual. Since I have an RT Pro valve now (sames as X-valve) I may just put it togther with Co2, just to see exactly how well it works.

Shane-O

[Phantom_Mag]

Who saw my thread ;) ;)

[Chaos_Theory!]

I believe it was Zak Vetter who had a video of his x running on a huge co2 tank via remote.

It was hooked up to a scuba tank, not a giant c02 tank.

[Alpha]

Now, that's not to say that it won't leak if they freeze,


Thats what I was getting at. I know CO2 isnt an acid :rofl:

When I fill Co2 tanks, my gauge normally shows its around 1000PSI, give or take. While this may not be the exact output the pin valve is putting out, its going to be higher then usual.

Which means more reactivity.

Which means [potential for] higher ROF

Which means the risk of liquid CO2 getting into the gun, causing evaporation, causing leaks due to O-ring shrinkage. I know nothing mechanical is going to seize up or be destroyed...

But runnign Co2 or N2 can be the difference of having a great day playing paintball and a horrible day trying to hunt down an o-ring kit off the net.

[bleachit]

It was hooked up to a scuba tank, not a giant c02 tank.

yeah.. couldnt think of what it was called, didnt care much to figure it out either... but thanks for the clarification.

[CoolHand]

Thats what I was getting at. I know CO2 isnt an acid :rofl:

When I fill Co2 tanks, my gauge normally shows its around 1000PSI, give or take. While this may not be the exact output the pin valve is putting out, its going to be higher then usual.

Which means more reactivity.

Which means [potential for] higher ROF

Which means the risk of liquid CO2 getting into the gun, causing evaporation, causing leaks due to O-ring shrinkage. I know nothing mechanical is going to seize up or be destroyed...

But runnign Co2 or N2 can be the difference of having a great day playing paintball and a horrible day trying to hunt down an o-ring kit off the net.

Way to quote me out of context, while totally missing the point.

When urethane freezes, it shrinks, which can cause a static seal to leak (not always though, it just depends on how much crush the oring has to begin with).

When it heats back up again, it will seal right back up. No damage. No parts kit needed off the net.

Get it?

Also, FYI CO2 will only generate 1000 psi when it's very confined or heated or both (IE in a 95% full tank with no where to go). About all you will ever get out of an unregged CO2 tank is 850 psi, especially when you're shooting out of it. AND, everyone has said that it needs to be double regged, to bring the output down to ~600 psi anyway.

This will reduce the reactivity, and help you keep the ROF down, to keep freezing down.

Also, Shan-O brings up a good point, shoot up may be worse with CO2, so start low velocity wise.

[Alpha]

Dude I dont want to argue. Why does everything on AO have to turn into an argument?

If it was 100% fine to use with 0 risks, I'm sure Tom Kaye (inventor of the automag) wouldn't tell us to not use CO2 on it.

[GT]

Sometimes I wonder about you guys. THere are 15 posts here and only one with real information, classic.


I have found that the second gen manifold MaxFlo tank regs work very well for this.

I was thinking max flow as my shockers have all loved the co2 while being the most consistant guns I have owned.

phantom do you have a link to your post?

[REDRT]

The one time I ever tried running The rt on Co2 it frozed up and leaked. Took the Co2 of and hook up the HPA and worked fine. Didn't damage the Orings, but mine didn't like it. I have kind of always thought the rt valves/xvalves had very tiny orifices and Co2 being a dirty gas could eventually clog these passages. At least that was my theory.

[CoolHand]

Dude I dont want to argue. Why does everything on AO have to turn into an argument?

If it was 100% fine to use with 0 risks, I'm sure Tom Kaye (inventor of the automag) wouldn't tell us to not use CO2 on it.

Thanks for clarifying who invented the Automag. lol

They tell you not to use it for the same reason they tell you never to touch the sear rod, for the most part, there is no reason to, and they don't want to have to field a bunch of technical questions about it from users who have futzed themselves out of a functional marker somehow. It's a classic step from an OEM to save on technical problems (which is fine, it's a smart call on their part).

Reminds me of this TWB:

http://www.logicpaintball.com/autowb103.gif

[Shane-O-Mac]

Good one Coolhand!

one of favorite TWB's.

like Coolhand says, the manufacturers recommend things to keep them from having huge issues and returns for warranty work. Very common in all industrys.

Like Coolhand I am cheesed off at how much Misinformation is out there, thats completel;y UNTRUE. Anyone read the tech section on cockers in APG last month? That guy, Jerry something or other, doesnt know anything, but what a "Factory Training" program has told him. And they use the same policy as above, ONLY tell them what works without issues. Dont let them know the are other way/things that work. At one point in another issue, he said cockers didnt work on Co2, BS. they work better than most. He stated that the cup seals would peel out of the valve stem. HUH???????????? never seen that happen my self. not to say it cant, but........

Anyways, Not recommended, doesnt mean, not possible.

As to maybe WHY???? Well alot of people play outlaw with no access to HPA. They have to use Co2. And they want to use their Mag, that has an X-valve on it. OR the fact that you can get more shots out of CO2 than HPA, for the same size tank. But that statement will prolly start another AO-freakout.


Shane-O

[Ares9989]

remote and palmer stabilizer, my rt valved mag works fine on it setup like that

[Lohman446]

LOL - hmm, considering Palmer has stated in the past that CO2 is the best "in use" gas for a 'cocker I have a hard time understanding how people say that.

I don't think the problem with CO2 in a mag is as much about the first few shots at low rates of fire as any at high rates. Could be wrong, never tried it, never intend to.