Its old, it must not be good right?

[punkncat]

It really seems nowdays that many players seem to think that all electronic markers more than a few years old are complete junk. Especially anything without eyes. Not talking so much about resale, as it is pretty low on most used markers, but actually percieved capability of the older markers.

Has the modern marker with its eyes, ramping, fancy milling and LCD displays made older markers less effective at shooting paintballs? Are they deserving of the trashpile in spite of the fact that most can shoot as fast as a hopper can load...? that many are very dependable...?

How many can remember when an Imp was THE marker to own? Now you can hardly give one away.
How about a Trix? The Bushmaster?


I saw a really nice older marker come through the shop the other day. It was priced well below what it was worth. Not a single person would even look at it cause it was "old junk". Totally got poo-pooed. For the price it could easily have been purchased, added a good tank, barrel and loader, and had a much better marker than anything available for the price. One that has stood up to everything thats been handed to it all these years and still works as well as ever.

Will people see this type of lasting quality with most of what is being put out today?

I bet not.

[Alpha]

I know I wont bro. :cheers:

[REDRT]

It really seems nowdays that many players seem to think that all electronic markers more than a few years old are complete junk.

If it isn't Emag/xmag in a few years most are junk if not from the factory. :eek: Go ahead strike the die hard mag guy down now. :ninja:

[WARPED1]

It's the software. Old software, like non rampers, are pretty useless to the tourney guys. I myself have a DM3 with stock board, Gun20 chip, it's fine for me. I have a few stock Tribals laying around, love those too.

[punkncat]

If it isn't Emag/xmag in a few years most are junk if not from the factory. :eek: Go ahead strike the die hard mag guy down now. :ninja:

Thats almost the bias I am talking about.

"Oh its not a ______ so it suxorz."

Easy to overlook a lot of really good equipment thinking like that.

[geekwarrior]

i still have my ole f4 illustrator that i use on the rare occasion. actually i have 2 of them. never chopped paint, never broke down. I have one converted to look like a sniper rifle, the other an m4....they both look pretty real.

[punkncat]

As a good example...

I picked up an 04 Angel Speed for a steal because a guy was convinced he needed a ramping marker. I actually gave a marker that I had less than $100 in and a board I spent $100 on for the marker, a tank, and a barrel set...in addition to many extra parts.

I took a few weeks to tune the marker, get used to using it, and learning to use a Reloader B with good batteries. I use this marker every weekend to scrimmage with players who play rookie class in PSP and CFOA. I get my fair share of eliminations. Not a single player there would say I was at a disadvantage because of it.

Is there such a difference in between my marker and theirs that make it worth the extra $500 to $1100 they spent for theirs?

[11 Bravo]

Is there such a difference in between my marker and theirs that make it worth the extra $500 to $1100 they spent for theirs?


Absolutely not. Except for the ramping software and that is easily fixed with the purchase of a new board or chip. :shooting:

[guru]

Generally, I don't see a lot of difference is markers in the past 2 years. Once eyes were available on everything, that was pretty much the last major improvement in paintball guns. Over the past couple of years, guns have not improved cycling speed significantly, accuracy, weight has improved a little but not much, dependabilty, or even speed (yea I said it!)

Mostly I believe people feel like they have to have the newest thing because it is cool, just like fashion people need to impress other w/ how much they can drop on a gun. Others actually think because it is new it is better (I would guess that these are players that have been playing <2 years), and others just like having a new gun. I myself fall into the latter group. I have never owned a gun that is worth more than 500 dollars, but I love trying different guns out.

[REDRT]

Thats almost the bias I am talking about.

"Oh its not a ______ so it suxorz."

Easy to overlook a lot of really good equipment thinking like that.

Maybe so, but even back in the hay day of AGD not a lot of E/Xmag owners sitting around at the store waiting for it to be fixed. I hang out at the store now and it seems every single marker has some kind of melt down every other week. IMPs, Ions, angels, timmies, matrix, shockers, DM/PM's ect. You name it, old or new they need extra special care or they are junk. Not build for the long haul. Most are very delicate on the inside. One oops and it is broke. I'd like to see that Samsonite Gorilla just go to town on every Emarker. In the end from what I see I'd bet on AGD.

[anomoly40]

We had a lot of "meltdowns" weekend before last. We were playing a few scrimmage games with a lot of the tourney people(I'm fairly new at the tourney scene, and I just started working at the pro-shop), nearly every marker went down. I'm talking an Angel A4 Fly went down because it had a nasty barrel break that goo'd up the eyes, Another Angel went down because of a loose wire. We had a 06 Proto that was acting wierd out of the box. We had a Kid with a Ego shooting with a Revvy and he would chop every game, so bad he called himself out for it several times. The only guns that didn't have problems were my mag (a 68 classic), the field owners mag( a hyperframe Ule) and two Ions(don't know how that happened!). I can't see why someone would spend $800+ dollars on something that isn't for sure to work when you need it. I got VERY tired of playing one game the breaking for 20-30 minutes to tech on guns. THESE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE HIGH END!

[tyrion2323]

If it isn't Emag/xmag in a few years most are junk if not from the factory. :eek: Go ahead strike the die hard mag guy down now. :ninja:

I'm confused as to why you're taking a thread about public opinion regarding older guns and turning it into a pro-mag martyr mission...

:confused: :confused: :confused:

As for older guns, I absolutely adore my 04 Freestyle. I'd love to have one of the FS7s or FS8s, mainyl because of the better software, MUCH better efficiency, and overal improved performance; however, that doesn't mean I feel that I'm at a disadvantage because I shoot an "older" marker. It's hella-fast, small, light, and I LOVE it.

[Vex]

I'm confused as to why you're taking a thread about public opinion regarding older guns and turning it into a pro-mag martyr mission...
Because it's his opinion.

[WARPED1]

Because it's his opinion.
Opinions are like buttholes, we all have them, and sometimes they stink................

[camilion705]

Old guns shoot pretty much exactly as they did years ago, but the main differences come from looks, weight, length, etc...

The Intimidator, for example, back when it first came out was a massive, long, tall, heavy, piece of not quite refined paintball technology. Now today the Intimidator series of markers is one of the smallest, lightest guns around. They shoot pretty much exactly the same, but the newer one is better simply because it is lighter, smaller, etc.

The Matrix came out as a huge boat of a gun with poor efficiency, but a new an innovative bolt design. Now the DM series improved the Matrix design and made a smaller package that is also lighter and more efficient (stock). However I can say for a fact that my LED Trix shot just as well and just as fast as my buddy's DM4... The DM series though is better than the orginal Trixes because of the size improvements.

So its not so much that the guns now shoot "better," but are easier to shoot with and run with etc, because they have shaved some pounds and become more compact.

[Recon by Fire]

The longer I stay involved in painball the more I find myself liking vintage markers better.

[Vex]

Opinions are like buttholes, we all have them, and sometimes they stink................
But it's his opinion, and you can't take that away. Neener neener neener! :p

[punkncat]

The longer I stay involved in painball the more I find myself liking vintage markers better.


I third that.


I get to thinking though that maybe its not the older markers I like so much, but the sytle of play they represent?

[RRfireblade]

I think your confusing 'desire' with percieved functionality and practicality.

Oh , and your must also be basing this on the internet alone.

Kids 'want' the latest newest thing cause it's 'cool'.

Kids aren't willing to pay much for the older stuff cause the new stuff comes out with more features for the same or less price than the older stuff sold for new.

And IMO , at the field and in real life...most of that is not true. The vast majority of the local players and walk-on don't know the difference between V. 116.xx and V 127.xx Software nor do they care.

At least in my experience. I get just as many oohs and ahhs at the local fields whether I pull a DM6 from the bag or an old Timmy. In fact this last sunday some kid with a Drenny Imp was attracting a ton of attention.

For what that's worth.

[Arstron]

As for older guns, I absolutely adore my 04 Freestyle. I'd love to have one of the FS7s or FS8s, mainyl because of the better software, MUCH better efficiency, and overal improved performance; however, that doesn't mean I feel that I'm at a disadvantage because I shoot an "older" marker. It's hella-fast, small, light, and I LOVE it.

I agree, although I still dont consider an 04 to be "old." A 04 freestyle is diffrent then an 04 in most markers though, there actualy was a ton of advancements to the freestyles between the stock 04 and the 05 and im sure the fs-8 will be a little bit better still. Although who really needs 1500-2000 shots off of a 45/4500. :tard:

I think most peoples biggest concerns when looking at used older electronic markers is what condition the electronics are in. Most people are woried that the electronics are bad and thats why the person is selling it. If you buy new, you know it will work great for awhile. True it usualy doesnt take much to fix them, but I know several people that think that way, or atleast its their excuse to spend to much on a new marker.

[etjoyride]

Even though i see a lot of people around here with the latest and greatest, i myself never have it....I always lag a few years behind, Right now i have an A4fly (witohut ramping or anything) although its possible i'm going to be trading for a DM4 :rolleyes:

[SummaryJudgement]

I really like buying great guns at crazy prices because other people don't appreciate them :D

[Aslan]

I really like buying great guns at crazy prices because other people don't appreciate them :D

I've never bought a new gun. The newest gun I ever bought was a Prodigy E-Grip...my only electronic marker. I hate electros...they've ruined the sport in my OPINION. And it's not just me...a friend of mine was telling me last week that the best time he ever had playing paintball was with Brass Eagle pumps and Stingrays in my friends large backyard.

There were no attitudes...no Agg...no people trying to dominate newbs with their Shockers or Timmys...no ex-military with A-5s having nam flashbacks...no wiping, no cheating... I know you can't go back in time and I'm not trying to say we should all just use Brass Eagle products :eek: ...I'm just saying that this attitude of, "his gun doesn't have eyes so it must be junk" is simply rediculous.

So far, early in my Mag owning career, I've been nothing but amazed by the quality of that marker. And as for history...I've used to use a very old mechanical Spyder (pre-2000) as my primary marker and did very well in woodsball as well as airball. My friend borrowed my old Pro-Lite and did better than he'd ever done last time we played.

Now, can I compete in tournaments with a mechanical Mag up against ramping DM-5s? Probably not. When someone shoots 3 balls to every one of yours...it give them alot of options as far as being able to move around and pin you down. But I've never played at the amateur level and don't plan to so I don't need to worry about that.

One prime example of old guns getting a bad wrap is the mech cocker. 5 years ago, Cockers were considered the best of the best...my friends and I use to look at them and dream about how cool it would be to have one (to replace our stingrays!). Recently, I bought a 2k (or 2003...I can't tell...don't know alot about cockers...it's a project gun) autococker for $27. Are cockers that bad now? I don't think so.

Anyways, I own old guns...and I love them!

[Lohman446]

Electros are not responsible for the attitude in paintball.

[WARPED1]

Old guns shoot pretty much exactly as they did years ago, but the main differences come from looks, weight, length, etc...

The Intimidator, for example, back when it first came out was a massive, long, tall, heavy, piece of not quite refined paintball technology. Now today the Intimidator series of markers is one of the smallest, lightest guns around. They shoot pretty much exactly the same, but the newer one is better simply because it is lighter, smaller, etc.

The Matrix came out as a huge boat of a gun with poor efficiency, but a new an innovative bolt design. Now the DM series improved the Matrix design and made a smaller package that is also lighter and more efficient (stock). However I can say for a fact that my LED Trix shot just as well and just as fast as my buddy's DM4... The DM series though is better than the orginal Trixes because of the size improvements.

So its not so much that the guns now shoot "better," but are easier to shoot with and run with etc, because they have shaved some pounds and become more compact.
QFT. Well said, and I concur..........

[Lohman446]

I think you are for the most part overstating several ounces into a few pounds, and a few milimeters here and there for inches. With the exception of the Shoebox to 03 Shocker I just don't see the massive amount of difference.

[FARMER00]

im not a big fan of eyes they slow the gun too much. I'd rather spend money to buy a really good Anti Chop bolt

[Lohman446]

im not a big fan of eyes they slow the gun too much. I'd rather spend money to buy a really good Anti Chop bolt

WHAT? What eyes have you actually experienced slowing down a marker aside from actually preventing chops?

[68magOwner]

WHAT? What eyes have you actually experienced slowing down a marker aside from actually preventing chops?

about to post the same thing, eyes dont slow a marker down in the least.

Anyway, yeah, i really probably wouldnt shoot anything without eyes in a tournament. Just because its silly to risk chops, and eyes are more pro-active than "a good anti-chop bolt" id rather my marker not hit the ball in the first place than have to "chuff" it.

[Lohman446]

about to post the same thing, eyes dont slow a marker down in the least.

Anyway, yeah, i really probably wouldnt shoot anything without eyes in a tournament. Just because its silly to risk chops, and eyes are more pro-active than "a good anti-chop bolt" id rather my marker not hit the ball in the first place than have to "chuff" it.

Eyes - see ball and fire within miliseconds (no way you are noticing a problem here with a decent marker)

Anti-chop bolt - when you pull the trigger bolt moves forward, if it hits/pinches a ball it either resets itself or takes another pull to reset. Takes more miliseconds

I don't understand how someone truly beleives that an ACB is quicker than eyes.

[FARMER00]

i got about 9 bps on my friends ion with eyes on turn them off and i go right to 16-17

[Lohman446]

i got about 9 bps on my friends ion with eyes on turn them off and i go right to 16-17

:rolleyes: Then the eyes are faulting out, the marker is going into override mode, and your getting about 12. Are the numbers confirmed over a chrono or just your guesses?

[SCpoloRicker]

Does my 2k3 Angel count? ;) It does have eyes, though.

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/2117/2k3predangelclose7jb.jpg

/now get off my lawn

[SpitFire1299]

I have an old school bushmaster (I think its like a 2003 or something), it has like pds, lcd, chaos.. etc. I used it in a tourney 2 days ago and it kept up with no problems. Its old.. but its more than good, its Amazing. I also have a 2k4 dm3 matrix. Do i need to say more? :D

[FARMER00]

:rolleyes: Then the eyes are faulting out, the marker is going into override mode, and your getting about 12. Are the numbers confirmed over a chrono or just your guesses?

big red chrono and yes the eyes might have been crapping out. i never thought about that

[REDRT]

These off brand companies (Companies other than AGD) Market the crap out of the littlest thing. Kingman for example changes the name, ano's it different and might add one part. They market the crap out of it and all the spyder kiddies jump on it like flies on crap. Same basic thing with all the big name markers. Marketing gets the sale. High end markers and the advertisement for them is directed to the 25 and under age group. Under the age of 25 alot of young people make rash decisions with out thinking things threw. I for one did many of unthought provoked things till I was 25ish. That is why we have gun whoring. These off brand markers maybe ok for what they are, but if someone like Dye says this is the new standard alot of crazed youth flock to it.

[kayvon]

yea eyes will actually speed up a gun
say if you are shooting so fast that the bolt goes forward before another ball drops in it will then keep that ball from falling in and wait till the next shot to actually fire the ball while as with eyes it will wait till that ball falls down and fire as soon as possible therefore speeding it up.
my friend wittha revi and working eye was shooing faster than i was with a eggII and broken eyes at athat time

sorry if that was settled already but i thought id add my 2 cents

also my mech mag (classic with ULT, lvl X, intelly and all that good stuff) kept upp with the other players at my field, i was actually one of the best players for a while until i fell out of practice( its a small field too) but all the people there including me played novice tourneys and i had no problems.

my buddy has an 03 Speed and he shoots like 30 balls a game and gets the majority of our eliminations

conclusion : you dont need high rates of fire and the newest stuff to keep up it is all about the snapshooting/ gunfighting skills and your overall knowledge of the game to compete.

also i now shoot a slightly upped e1 cocker (kinda old school) and i have never been the one to buy the new guns and gear