Shiping Ports the the Arabs...? what do you guys think?

[sean33]

do you think..yes its fine no its dumb

[Ole Unka Phil]

I don't think its a real problem. They are a top notch company, and the ports now are far from secure as it is. I suspect with them holding the contract they will get even better scrutiny... so I am not going to be paranoid and racist about it. Its a global economic world. i am fairly certain there are plenty of Saudi ownerships in many companies we do business with every day.

[SCpoloRicker]

Oh, boy. Anyone want some over/under action on this? ;)

[sean33]

i think its a bit sketch... :tard:

[Lohman446]

Hmmm... My views have already been expressed in a proper forum

/Ricker - under 30 meaningful posts :)

[FactsOfLife]

Poll is flawed, we aren't letting them buy or even control PORTS. We're considering letting them manage some TERMINALS.

The difference is vast.

And the media and the jackasses demonizing this issue without even getting the basic FACTS right is laughable yet so very predictable.

Hey guess what?

There's already several DOZEN terminals in the California area that are under CHINESE management...

[SCpoloRicker]

Hmmm... My views have already been expressed in a proper forum

/Ricker - under 30 meaningful posts :)

"meaningful" is a cop-out, good sir :)

[Army]

I don't think we should ship any ports to any country. American ports should stay here!

However, UAE runs the largest port the US Navy uses outside the USA.....with no security problems at all.

This is another non-issue that has been blow out of proportion by those that have a hate America agenda.



BTW, this is SOOOOOO political, so watch your attitudes and personal crap.

[grEnAlEins]

I don't think we should ship any ports to any country. American ports should stay here!
:rofl: Agreed, I bet it is expensive to ship a port (they are awfully large I believe), in addition to the American industry should stay here thing ;)

The security "issue" is non-existant. US Customs Enforcement (and I believe the USCG is involved too) will still run security in domestic ports (and the ports are not all that secure as things are now). Even if we were to turn over full operational control to Dubai (SP?) Ports World, they could probably run things more efficiently than they are run now (yay privatization :dance: ) security included. We need to stop this fear of all things Arab nonsense. They want to manage a terminal at one of our ports and increase productivity (and therefore profitability) I say let them.

Just my thoughts (and if I am wrong, lmk),

Nick

[Recon by Fire]

UAE I believe is really trying to be a progressive Arab country. There are some past issues with them, but overall I belive the CP Abdellah (?) is sincere in the business ineterest. Problem is, will everybody working or associated with the port feel the same or harbor ill intent? What would change if the UAE controlled the port? NOt much really. Our ports are unsafe now and always have been, they still would be unsafe. There would just be more opportunity. I would just rather see and US mainland port be operated by US interests.

[Lohman446]

"meaningful" is a cop-out, good sir :)

Under 30 not including posts by members of the Thorde?

[TheAngryDrunkenRussian]

I just don't like the whole issue of it being contracted out. Sry I don't trust many people here let alone another nation.

[SlartyBartFast]

Isn't the "problem" or racist/protectionist knee jerk reaction caused because the worlds largest port operating company is buying the company that runs operations certain American ports?
The ports are already run by a private company.

Italian Mafia, Arab extremists. Same thing.... :p

[Lohman446]

Isn't the "problem" or racist/protectionist knee jerk reaction caused because the worlds largest port operating company is buying the company that runs operations certain American ports?
The ports are already run by a private company.


My reaction has nothing to do with race and a lot to do with extermism that permeates certain geographical areas. :)

[SlartyBartFast]

My reaction has nothing to do with race and a lot to do with extermism that permeates certain geographical areas. :)

You mean like Mafia in the East of the US or the Triad in the West?

The stink is just the same as the uproar over the Chinese company trying to buy a big US oil company. The terrorism angle is a convenient excuse.

If it's not convenient it's downright stupid. It's not like the ports suddenly become non-US territory and anyone can comme and work there. And it's still government agency responsibility to enforce immigration and customs.

Heck the Saudis outright own a HUGE chunk of the US, what does it matter if the UAE simply manages a portion? :p

[Lohman446]

You mean like Mafia in the East of the US or the Triad in the West?

The stink is just the same as the uproar over the Chinese company trying to buy a big US oil company. The terrorism angle is a convenient excuse.

If it's not convenient it's downright stupid. It's not like the ports suddenly become non-US territory and anyone can comme and work there. And it's still government agency responsibility to enforce immigration and customs.

Heck the Saudis outright own a HUGE chunk of the US, what does it matter if the UAE simply manages a portion? :p

No... I mean the extremism that brews in certain parts of the world that makes it acceptable to want to kill every American man, woman, and child. The same extremism that helped people justify flying two airplanes into buildings filled with non-combatants. I'm not so extreme as to call for stopping of the transfer, I understand it may work, nor am I totally oblivious to the issues with it.

[SCpoloRicker]

The same extremism that helped people justify flying two airplanes into buildings filled with non-combatants.

http://media.msnbc.msn.com/j/msnbc/2032000/2032539.hmedium.jpg

"Now you see, everything changed after 9/11..."

??

[Lohman446]

"Now you see, everything changed after 9/11..."

The idea that the middle east is not full of zealots (more so than other parts of the world) willing to martyr themselves seems pretty evident to me. Perhaps thats "racist" of me. I don't think it has anything to do with race though, I think it has a lot to do with the religous/political environment.

[frontrunner]

from my undersanding of the control of the ports is being contracted out not security the coast guard and the other branches will still be responsible for keeping them safe

[Glickman]

from my undersanding of the control of the ports is being contracted out not security the coast guard and the other branches will still be responsible for keeping them safe

Yes! THANK GOODNESS OUR OWN SECURITY FORCE WILL BE PROTECTING THE SHIPPING!

I really feel protected since we only scan as the daily show says: someodd-5% of what comes into our nation :rolleyes:


I have no problem with another country doing this. what i DO have a problem is this certain country, the UAE; have been known to have funded parts of the terrorism that involved 9/11.

Give us security from Israel. You wont see any smart talking kids on the docks anymore :p

[BeaverEater]

I just don't like the whole issue of it being contracted out. Sry I don't trust many people here let alone another nation.
you do realize that these ports in question are already being contracted out to an english company.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

you do realize that these ports in question are already being contracted out to an english company.


...and the sale undoubtedly threw a monkey-wrench into the British plan to take back their lost 13 colonies. :shooting:

[FactsOfLife]

Yes! THANK GOODNESS OUR OWN SECURITY FORCE WILL BE PROTECTING THE SHIPPING!

I really feel protected since we only scan as the daily show says:




couldn't read past this. stop watching that show and save your brain.

[SCpoloRicker]

I concede to lohman and his superior over/under skills.

:hail:

[Dharma punk]

xenophobia kills...

[Glickman]

couldn't read past this. stop watching that show and save your brain.

pretty obvious i was making fun of the show. ;) that does not say that the facts are not relatively true though. I would feel much more secure with say, and israel company protecting out shipping; even though security it not whats being changed.

[FactsOfLife]

pretty obvious i was making fun of the show. ;) that does not say that the facts are not relatively true though. I would feel much more secure with say, and israel company protecting out shipping; even though security it not whats being changed.


I know this, I was kidding too..... o_0

[matt-o]

Poll is flawed, we aren't letting them buy or even control PORTS. We're considering letting them manage some TERMINALS.

The difference is vast.

And the media and the jackasses demonizing this issue without even getting the basic FACTS right is laughable yet so very predictable.

Hey guess what?

There's already several DOZEN terminals in the California area that are under CHINESE management...
man, you just know everything, dont you? :dodgy:

This is another non-issue that has been blow out of proportion by those that have a hate America agenda.
nobody here hates america, dont try to play that card

[matt-o]

couldn't read past this. stop watching that show and save your brain.
dont get me started, the daily show gives about as many facts in a half hour as a regular news show and is no more biased. they just admit to the bias.

[BeaverEater]

dont get me started, the daily show gives about as many facts in a half hour as a regular news show and is no more biased. they just admit to the bias.
Ya but they arent there to give facts or actual news, its just supposed to be a joke on how the media is. the sad thing is, its becoming more and more factual that a regular news show. I refuse to get my news from the television at all.

[FactsOfLife]

man, you just know everything, dont you? :dodgy:




yes, unlike the VAST majority of the posters here and the MISINFORMATION they're spreading, I've done a ton of studying of this issue.

You want to debate the relative merits of allowing foreign interests to manage small parts of our ports, then debate.

I haven't made up my mind about the issue yet. I'm leaning towards not having a problem with it.

I think the unions, and specifically the Longshoremen, are more of a danger to the security of this country by not allowing updated technology, than the UAE managing a couple of terminals.

[lather]

yes, unlike the VAST majority of the posters here and the MISINFORMATION they're spreading, I've done a ton of studying of this issue.

You want to debate the relative merits of allowing foreign interests to manage small parts of our ports, then debate.

I haven't made up my mind about the issue yet. I'm leaning towards not having a problem with it.

I think the unions, and specifically the Longshoremen, are more of a danger to the security of this country by not allowing updated technology, than the UAE managing a couple of terminals.

Unbelivable-- you put your trust in a Foreign power over those of American workers. At least 40% of my union coworkers are ex-military--ALL of whom served with distinction and pride. And you know what? We still work in the civilian sector with just the same sense of professionalism. If anyone was to take you seriously, what a kick in the jewels you just gave them.

Yes get rid of all those over priced union employees and let the UAE-run company hire the best and brightest for minimum wage. By simply reducing labor costs, they can earn even bigger returns for their shareholders, all the while, highly trained and motivated minumum wage employees will be watching over our ports ever so viligantly. :rolleyes:


We have the Mexican Army coming over our borders and now this. Sadly, a profit opportunity from a foreign country has yet again taken precedence over the security of the American People.

[SlartyBartFast]

Poll is flawed, we aren't letting them buy or even control PORTS. We're considering letting them manage some TERMINALS.

The difference is vast.

And the media and the jackasses demonizing this issue without even getting the basic FACTS right is laughable yet so very predictable.

Hey guess what?

There's already several DOZEN terminals in the California area that are under CHINESE management...

Hey kiddies, no matter what you political stripe or prejudice: learn a lesson from FOL. Know your facts before engaging in debate.


I haven't made up my mind about the issue yet. I'm leaning towards not having a problem with it.

Now, if FOL and I can agree on something, there's little doubt. It HAS to be right. :eek: :rofl:

[BeaverEater]

Yes get rid of all those over priced union employees and let the UAE-run company hire the best and brightest for minimum wage. By simply reducing labor costs, they can earn even bigger returns for their shareholders, all the while, highly trained and motivated minumum wage employees will be watching over our ports ever so viligantly. :rolleyes:

Union workers are overpaid, just look at what its done to the american car companies..... Thats the reason why the jap car companies are taking over america.

[FactsOfLife]

Unbelivable-- you put your trust in a Foreign power over those of American workers. At least 40% of my union coworkers are ex-military--ALL of whom served with distinction and pride. And you know what? We still work in the civilian sector with just the same sense of professionalism. If anyone was to take you seriously, what a kick in the jewels you just gave them.

Yes get rid of all those over priced union employees and let the UAE-run company hire the best and brightest for minimum wage. By simply reducing labor costs, they can earn even bigger returns for their shareholders, all the while, highly trained and motivated minumum wage employees will be watching over our ports ever so viligantly. :rolleyes:


We have the Mexican Army coming over our borders and now this. Sadly, a profit opportunity from a foreign country has yet again taken precedence over the security of the American People.


Where to start where to start....

I give you an F for reading comprehension. And an E for effort.

I gave a SPECIFIC example that is EASILY verified and you decide to make some generalised incorrect comment about what I said.

It's painfully obvious by your kneejerk reaction that you have done ZERO homework on this issue. And fall squarely in the pile of miscreants spouting a bunch of misinformed nonsense.

Bravo. BRAVO I SAY.

edit: The Mexican Army crossing our borders is an act of war and should be treated as such. Tell Vincente Fox that the next incursion of your armed troops onto our soil will be met with A1 Abrams and enough surplus munitions to make scrap out of whatever has the balls to cross our border.

[SlartyBartFast]

Thats the reason why the jap car companies are taking over america.

Don’t be so simplistic. How do you explain the fact that so many “japanese” cars are manufacturerd in Canada and the United States by North American unionised labour? Then for the cars that are imported, there's the little fact that Japanese labour is probably amoung the most expensive in the world.

While I agree with your general opinion of Unions, your analysis of the auto industry is pathetic.

[FactsOfLife]

Union workers are overpaid, just look at what its done to the american car companies..... Thats the reason why the jap car companies are taking over america.


Union workers, and the autoworker unions in particular are mostly there for one thing these days, and that's job protection.

Yes, wages are part of the reason they exist to a lesser extent, no one likes a pay cut.

The Big Three are all strangled to some degree by auto working unions.

The assertion that Japanese car companies are taking over America due to unions though is a misleading one.

I'd say that their marketing departments are doing a much better job of VOC and responding to what customers are wanting, than what influence US unions are having on the car market.

[BeaverEater]

no unions are the reason that we cant compete with the japanese car companies that are non union. Cat was loosing a million dollars a day just like 5 years ago and transfered all of their plants to non union states. Today that benefited them greatly, the car companies could learn a thing or 2 from this.


Don’t be so simplistic. How do you explain the fact that so many “japanese” cars are manufacturerd in Canada and the United States by North American unionised labour? Then for the cars that are imported, there's the little fact that Japanese labour is probably amoung the most expensive in the world.

While I agree with your general opinion of Unions, your analysis of the auto industry is pathetic.

you do realize that most of the jap cars are made in non union plants. Yes they are made in amercian but a lot are made by non union workers.

[Army]

...nobody here hates america, dont try to play that card

You don't know me very well, do you?

[SniperSmurf]

You don't know me very well, do you?
:rofl:
Obviously he doesn't. His reply doesn't even apply to what you actually said either.

This is another non-issue that has been blow out of proportion by those that have a hate America agenda.

nobody here hates america, dont try to play that card
:confused: :confused: :confused:
Matt, please tell me... where exactly did Army say that anyone here hates America (and ya better capitalize that word next time :mad: )?

[SlartyBartFast]

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Considering it's the REPUBLICANS that are pushing this issue, who's being labelled as American haters?

[Jonneh]

For the sake of this thread and the fact that it amuses me, I now hate america! You guys are dumb and fat and rich and shoot each other with guns all day! I'm going to protest by riding my bike into a chain of ASDA! DOWN WITH CAPTIALISM!

[SCpoloRicker]

For the sake of this thread and the fact that it amuses me, I now hate america! You guys are dumb and fat and rich and shoot each other with guns all day! I'm going to protest by riding my bike into a chain of ASDA! DOWN WITH CAPTIALISM!


VIVA LA REVOLUCION!!1!1

/hey I let it hit 30

[lather]

America's management style does far more damage to our ability to compete than any union ever could.

Japan's management style/culture is far superior to ours. When a Japanese company faces financial problems, management is usually the first to be laid off, providing incentive to the remaining managers/executives to turn things around.

A funny example of American management culture, well not too funny as its close to the truth: :(


A Japanese company and an American company decided to have a canoe race. Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race. On the big day the Japanese won by a mile. Afterward, the American team became very discouraged and morally depressed. The American management decided the reason for the crushing defeat had to be found.

A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action. Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 8 people steering and 1 person rowing. So, American management hired a consulting company and paid them an incredible amount of money.

They advised that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing. To prevent losing to the Japanese again next year, the American rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area steering superintendents, and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager. They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 1 person rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the Rowing Team Quality Program, with meetings, dinners, and free pens for the rower. Even new paddles and medical benefit incentives were promised for a winner. Management believed they must give the rower the empowerment and enrichments through this quality program.

The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower for poor performance, halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the senior executives as a bonus.

[M98Punk]

Very Amusing Lather.... and I think the issue is just corruption in American, be it the Management or Unions, it's not one of the other. I for one am not a big fan of unions I work with a pathetically corrupt one myself but as much as I dislike them I dislike coporate america for being worthless and cold enough to make unions necessary.... With that said I'd rather have the people screwin the man than the man screwin the people BUT as my economics teacher said either way we are screwed

[Lohman446]

Why is it that the right to work states are undergoing economic recovery so much better than those whose antiquated laws support the unions? Why is it that those states get new auto industry (be it foreign or domestic)?

I'm all for a union of workers, but when that union becomes legally protected (ie cannot hire a non-union employee for certain jobs / all employes must join the union or be terminated by management) and self serving, rather than serving the needs of workers, its gone to far.

The classic American union has become far too strong, far too politically motivated, and has all but abandoned there purpose. I challenge the assertion that there is not someone as equally as qualified as a union employee willing to do the job for the same price.

When Wal-mart sets prices from its suppliers and tells the suppliers to basically take it or be out of luck we as Americans are alarmed. When the gas companies decertify plants, form questionable partnerships, and appear to control the supply to effect the rpice we are alarmed? When we here of price fixing we are alarmed? When we hear of industry contributing millions of dollars to politicians in an effort to get "friendly" laws passed, we are alarmed. Why do we not hold the American labor unions to the same standard of economic accountability as we do corporate America? Why do they get a free pass?

[grEnAlEins]

Why do they get a free pass?
:rofl: This one is easy ;) . It is the Mob connections. Sure there is no overt relationship today, but this is how the unions formed political ties. Thats why I love the Democratic Party, good ole Kennedy(s), Daily(s), and the illegal trade of alcohol with it's income laundered through the unions (who support and are supported by the Democrats and the Mob). Teamwork! I love the system!