Old Minimag and Freezing Valve

[Minigun]

Background:
Well I have taken about a six year break from paintball and I still have my minimag in its original box sitting up on my closet shelf. I broke it out the other day to see if it would still fire, but disappointingly it just leaked air. Originally I quit playing because I spent $350.00 on this gun and every time I went to go and play the valve would freeze on me and allow me to get massacred by the opposing team. I eventually got tired of this and put the gun on the shelf. However, I must say the minimag is one of the most accurate paintball guns I have ever owned even with its short barrel. Just to let you know I usually play in 85 to 100 degree weather down in Texas so freezing is definitely still a problem in warm weather and obviously I run CO2 through my minimag. I haven’t done one upgrade to the minimag because I thought it would perform after paying $350.00, but obviously that is not true.
The Meat:
Now I have spent the past few days doing some research on what I need to buy to get back into the game and get my gun working properly. From the previous paragraph I of course need a $20.00 O-Ring kit and I have a completely stock six year old minimag. I also assume from reading previous posts that if I want to run CO2 reliably I need a CO2 regulator and an anti-siphon tank (only if I convert to bottom line). I also read that the palmer stabilizer was the best regulator for CO2, but what is the exact name of the palmer stabilizer that I need to get for the minimag. I would also like to ask if buying a cheap $69.00 HPA system would be worth it and if it would give me what I am looking for which is no freezing (obviously) and reliable pressure +/- 4PSI. Overall, I am looking for the cheapest set up that will get my gun working reliably. I would also like to know if frequent freezing of the valve due to running CO2 through the minimag would hurt anything besides the O-Rings. Please give me all your opinions and suggestions.

[peewee]

Hi , nice to see another old timer return. :D
First what kind of access do you have for compressed air?
where do you play (woods ball or speedball /organized field)?

Do you have real love for CO2? If so the Palmers is the way to go, you want the basic stabalizer. https://palmer-pursuit.com/ecom/product_info.php/cPath/22_23/products_id/28?osCsid=77900ce8d361eca716f401c0adcebd5e

I run mags on both but they run much better & require less maintenance on N2 / compressed air & I'd fully recomend getting a tank. check out where you would be getting your fills, most places cant fill over 3000 so a 4500 tank is kind of a waste. You can usually get a 68, 71/3000 pretty reasonable off ebay. If weight isnt an issue look into a steel tank they are usually pretty cheap. the 45/3000 can ruin low if you really get on the trigger.

[Minigun]

Hi , nice to see another old timer return. :D
First what kind of access do you have for compressed air?
where do you play (woods ball or speedball /organized field)?

Do you have real love for CO2? If so the Palmers is the way to go, you want the basic stabalizer. https://palmer-pursuit.com/ecom/product_info.php/cPath/22_23/products_id/28?osCsid=77900ce8d361eca716f401c0adcebd5e

I run mags on both but they run much better & require less maintenance on N2 / compressed air & I'd fully recomend getting a tank. check out where you would be getting your fills, most places cant fill over 3000 so a 4500 tank is kind of a waste. You can usually get a 68, 71/3000 pretty reasonable off ebay. If weight isnt an issue look into a steel tank they are usually pretty cheap. the 45/3000 can ruin low if you really get on the trigger.

Access to compressed air should not be a problem and I mainly play woods ball because I hate speedball. I also think a crossfire HPA system would be in my price range but it seems they have a recall out on all their composite tanks because of some defect. I really want to stay away from steel HPA tanks because the minimag is already damn heavy. I also found PMI Pure Energy tanks but it seems they are alittle more expensive. The math, to go CO2 it would be $100.00 (Palmer Stabilizer) + $15.00 (anit-siphon) + $ (bottomline) = $115.00 and to go HPA it would be $165.00 (Crossfire 68CI 3000PSI) its a tough choice since you could still have freezing with the CO2 it might be worth the extra bucks to go HPA.

[REDRT]

HPA is the way to go over CO2. I have a 68/3k AGD Flatline with AGD drop that I have been thinking of selling. Works great on my minimag, but to be honest sucks on my Emag. The bottle is still in hydro, but only till September of this year. It is a 3yr hydro. The take has always been covered so it looks like new. The reg has some light marks but nothing serious. The drop has some ano rubbed on the edges. Two mini guages. 1x dye and the other I'm unsure of, but both work well. It was rebuilt By AGD in the fall of 04. If this is of interest to you just pm me. I'm sure we can work out a deal to get you in to HPA reasonable.

[kopfjaeger]

I have an 88/3000 tank for $100 plus shipping. The tank is excellent condition, but I am not sure of the brand of regulator. I believe it is ANS. I am a small guy so this tank is a little long for me. It was freshly hydroed last year. The tank is preset @ 800 and works well for mags.

LMK :)

[dave p]

the one upgrade that will make 100% improvement over the way your minimag performs is compressed air. its night and day. you will be amazed. that and the aforementioned oring kit and you will be good to go.

[Aslan]

Your two options are:

Buy an expansion chamber and some fittings and macroline. It would also be best if you ran it remote from a harness...but not absolutely necessary. Price: $75-$85 new. $15-$35 used.

OR

Buy an HPA tank. You can get a PMI 47/3000 brand new for $79.99. You can pick up a larger tank used for $125-$165. Or you can go top of the line and get an adjustable flow reg and tank for around $300.

I know what you mean about expecting to get a complete package that works greatt out of the box...but remember, had you had an air tank instead of a CO2 tank...you wouldn't have had a problem at all. :)

I wouldn't wate money on the stabalizer. More money than a 6 stage expansion chamber, probably not as effective (or the same) at keeping the liquid CO2 out of the gun, and "possibly" something that could choke your flow to the valve a bit.

If you're really in a bind, let me know. I took the ANS Phase II expansion chamber, ASA, and duckbill off mine when I got HPA so I could probably let you have them pretty darn cheap. If you're not crunched for money, go the HPA route as long as you are in a place that has access to paintball stores that can fill it. I mean, you can use the HPA on your other guns as well.

[rb211]

I felt the same way when the HPA craze started, but I'll tell you, it's one of the best things I did for my mag, aside the X-valve. It costs more, but in the long run it's well worth it. You might find that a 68/3000 might be a little small, especially if you are as trigger happy as I am. You'll be going to the fill station often. You might want to consider a 4500psi 68 if you are dead set on the size of the 68. Personally I run an 88, but as much as I fire, I need it.

Where I am, air fills run cheaper for HPA than CO2,I dont have to worry about pressure drop when it is cold, I don't have to worry about getting liquid in the gun and killing O-rings, and I dont have all that extra weight of an expansion chamber on the gun.

Trust me, HPA is worth it.

[bleachit]

if you are playing woodsball and shoot a lot of paint, an hpa tank may not have enough air to last you the day.. a few CO2 tanks and a palmers will. You really dont need an anti siphon with the palmers anyway, just a standard co2 tank will do.

[Aslan]

if you are playing woodsball and shoot a lot of paint, an hpa tank may not have enough air to last you the day.. a few CO2 tanks and a palmers will. You really dont need an anti siphon with the palmers anyway, just a standard co2 tank will do.

I have no idea why you'd recommend a Palmers over an expansion chamber in this situation. He has no need to regulate pressure going into his valve, just needs to keep the liquid CO2 out. A palmers, even if "as" effective (which is debatable) as the 6 stage expansion is twice the cost. :confused: :spit_take

[Walrus]

I have no idea why you'd recommend a Palmers over an expansion chamber in this situation. He has no need to regulate pressure going into his valve, just needs to keep the liquid CO2 out. A palmers, even if "as" effective (which is debatable) as the 6 stage expansion is twice the cost. :confused: :spit_take


Well, I would have to agree with Bleachit instead of Aslan. Direct from PPS, "The STABILIZER will not be harmed by liquid and it will control pressure even if liquid is present. Although, best results in velocity consistency will always be achieved with anti-siphon tubes installed into your CO2 tanks. except vert. mount tanks)"

The point of a Stabilizer is to control pressure when using CO2. Actually some fields will require you to regulate CO2 just so you will not have the hot shots that can be harmful. An expansion chamber just does what the name states. It allows CO2 to expand from its compressed liquid state into a gas. This is great, but it only allows the gas to expand so it will not harm your valve. It does not regulate the pressure coming in and dual regulated pressure is more consistant than only regulating it once. If you don't think that a secondary regulator is important, then why does a HPA tank have a built in reg? It is uneccessary to use another regulator between a regulated HPA tank and the Mag valve becuase you are triple regulating the air and it is just not needed.

If you would like my $.02 on your setup, I would go with a screw-in preset HPA tank. You will not need another regulator or expansion chamber, bottomline (unless it won't fit on the VA because of your trigger frame), extra hose, anti-siphon tank, etc. If you are a fan of CO2, then I would suggest finding a used male Stabilizer, bottomline, and braided stainless steel hose. I would not suggest using CO2 with macro or micro line.

Remember it is nice to buy new, but you can also buy used and save a lot of cash!!


EDIT: I almost forgot the main point of this. Your valve is freezing because of the CO2. If you want to eliminate this, get rid of the CO2 and go with HPA. The tanks are lighter and you won't have a frozen or sweating valve.

[Aslan]

Well, I would have to agree with Bleachit instead of Aslan. Direct from PPS, "The STABILIZER will not be harmed by liquid and it will control pressure even if liquid is present. Although, best results in velocity consistency will always be achieved with anti-siphon tubes installed into your CO2 tanks. except vert. mount tanks)"

That actually proves my point. By saying "best results in velocity consistency will always be achieved with anti-siphon tubes installed into your CO2 tanks." you are saying that the bulk of consistency from CO2 is converting the liquid CO2 to a gas. People using straight CO2 don't see spikes (for the most part) because of varying gaseous CO2 pressures, they see spikes because the CO2 gets into the gun in liquid and gas form.



The point of a Stabilizer is to control pressure when using CO2. Actually some fields will require you to regulate CO2 just so you will not have the hot shots that can be harmful. An expansion chamber just does what the name states. It allows CO2 to expand from its compressed liquid state into a gas. This is great, but it only allows the gas to expand so it will not harm your valve. It does not regulate the pressure coming in...

The CO2 pressure once in a gas form should be fairly consistent. A reg WILL stabalize it further...but I guess my point is that I'd be FAR more concerned with turning it into a gas before worrying about trying to set it at 745psi vs 730psi.


...and dual regulated pressure is more consistant than only regulating it once. If you don't think that a secondary regulator is important, then why does a HPA tank have a built in reg? It is uneccessary to use another regulator between a regulated HPA tank and the Mag valve becuase you are triple regulating the air and it is just not needed.

I'm not sure I understand this one. Are you talking about the preset regulated HPA tanks or the adjustable regulated HPA tanks. This is off-topic, he's asking about CO2...obviously HPA would be an easy solution and the most effective. But to answer your question...if there was no regulator on an air tank, it would deliver 3000-4500psi directly into your gun which would probably absolutely destroy your marker and might hurt you as well. The adjustable regulators are for markers that require finer tuning...like the Mag valve liking a slightly higher input pressure or other high end markers that like less. Technically, the adjustable reg is like having the stabalizer down at your tank.


If you would like my $.02 on your setup, I would go with a screw-in preset HPA tank. You will not need another regulator or expansion chamber, bottomline (unless it won't fit on the VA because of your trigger frame), extra hose, anti-siphon tank, etc. If you are a fan of CO2, then I would suggest finding a used male Stabilizer, bottomline, and braided stainless steel hose. I would not suggest using CO2 with macro or micro line.


My advice is the same regarding HPA, but even used HPA tanks are often expensive. If you stick with CO2, you probably would get by with a remote line and an expansion chamber. I would go the HPA route just so you don't have to risk that liquid CO2 freezing your valve and messing up your o-rings on some cold day...but I would say in normal weather with a remote and an expansion chamber you won't have any problem. My $.02.

[Army]

Co2 can indeed spike over its normal 800psi, especially when the weather is warm/hot. The Palmers will keep the pressure at a constant 800-850psi.

However, if HPA is available, it is much more recommended for better performance and less hassle.

[klutz]

when i went to compressed air on my classic mag, about 5 years ago, all the old freezing and velocity problems just disappered, it was amazing.
if you do get HPA your gona need an agitated hopper to keep up.

best 2 upgrades i ever made in paintball (been playing 16yrs)

[ghost flanker]

Nobody in their right mind screws that poison into their mag. I started playing with my 68 Classic back in the day using Co2. It caused SO many problems... everything from shooting super hot to firing all by itself while literally lying down on a table! Plus I was going thru o-rings like a mofo in a riot cuz the Co2 just shreds them up like a razor. I had an expansion chamber and anti-siphon, but liquid Co2 always seemed to find a way to get inside the valve.

HPA is so much gentler on your gun as well as more consistant (velocity wise) than Co2 will ever be. The difference really is night and day. The metal HPA tanks ARE heavy though, but a remote line works extremely well for this.

[MoeMag]

Day 1.
I got my classic68. $170
I got a CO2 tank for it$30

Gassed up and I had a set up worth $0, because I could only get THREE shots off before the gun was frozen solid.

Day 2.
Sold the CO2 tank for $20
Got a PE 72/3000 HPA for $124

Shot like a million bucks and still does years later. :cool:

Get the HPA. Its cheaper and better in the long run.

Also...
Crossfire>PE, always will be.