Where does your loyalty lie?

[punkncat]

If you had to choose one marker for EVERY possible condition and cost what would you use?


This is assuming the worst of possible conditions, very little availability to parts, having to use CO2 a possibility.

[pachytriton]

c02 makes it tough... in that case probably a phantom. If I had access to compressed air but all other factors limited I'd go with an rt ule or a promaster.

[JOESPUD27]

PPS, with out a doubt.

Jay

[magman007]

i would own a dm, but you should know that by now. with a few oring changes, (change to urethane over buna n) it will shoot on co2 pretty well, sure the noid might encounter an issue or 2, but throw a palmer stab on it, and everything would be fine.

my other reccomendation is a phantom. when i was in chile, and compressed air was scarce, i played alot with my vsc phantom.

[REDRT]

If you had to choose one marker for EVERY possible condition and cost what would you use?


This is assuming the worst of possible conditions, very little availability to parts, having to use CO2 a possibility.

That is simple. A classic mag. Like a minimag. With out the internet parts for any mag would be difficult or be inconvinent for me to fix, but I'd still use them. But then again I like old vehicals that are hard to buy parts for. Finding the correct parts is almost more fun than driving them...

[bleachit]

the old tippmann 98 sitting in my closet.. non electro 140 round hopper...

its a beast, an old beast and it still works beautifully despite the years of my bro owning it and not taking care of it.

[nate2k191]

That is simple. A classic mag. Like a minimag. With out the internet parts for any mag would be difficult or be inconvinent for me to fix, but I'd still use them. But then again I like old vehicals that are hard to buy parts for. Finding the correct parts is almost more fun than driving them...

I agree with redrt -- we are on a mag forum, but i do believe classic mags/minimags are extremely rugged and would be great in poor conditions, it may work if you fall in mud/water/snow whatever, but if it doesnt a 5 minute clean will get it working. and they take co2 pretty well, I think most stock markers don't preform flawlessly with co2.

I bet tippmans are great too, i hear good things, plus they are pretty much the #1 rental gun because they are so rugged.

[usagi_tetsu]

I'm with you BleachIt - 'mags and the rest are nice and all, but when it comes down to drop-dead reliability, ruggedness, and simplicity, my Model 98 Custom (my first marker ever, still got it and use it as often as I can get it into my rotation) beats out everything else I've got in the closet. It may not be AGG, shoot 5billion misses per second, it's ugly, almost as loud as a real gun, but when I pull the trigger, it fires a paintball. It doesn't care what flavor of gas I'm feeding it that day, what brand or size of paintballs I've put in the hopper, it merely shoots all day long. I put a couple of drops of oil in the ASA every day I play with it, and only open it up for a thorough cleaning once a year. The rest of the time, I wipe the paint goo off, give it paint and air, and just yank on that trigger. And in all the years I've owned it and cycles I've put on it, I've replaced the mainspring once. Nothing else has worn to the point that I needed to replace it.

[minimag03]

Viking or Excalibur with duel PPS regs.

[buzzboy]

For ALL possible conditons I would go for a Tippmann SL-68II. I saw a pic of one that had been run over an still shot fine. The good ole tippmann tank.

[Pigpen]

Although I'm a recent conversion to the Automag family (just bought my first Tac One and I LOVE it) I have to go with my trusty 98c. With all the variables above its the logical choice. Phantoms are a wonderful marker, but my friend's 98c was literally run over by a truck, and he picket it up, replaved the crushed hopper and started firing it. They are that tough!

My 98c has performed flawlessly in driving rain, mud, dripping with paint, dried up goo in the firing chamber, you name it! It isn't nearly as accurate or quiet as a Phantom or Automag, but it's like an AK47. Fill it full of crud, point and click reliability.

My Tac One is beautiful, accurate, and quiet but my 98c can run on CO2.

Pigpen
out

[Arstron]

This is simple, becuse I just finished building that mag, it would be my zgriped, warped, minimag with a classic valve, lvl 10, and ULT. I love this new setup. :dance:

[ZEROte]

all these people who say mag have never played with one under 50 degree weather on co2. 98c all the way.

[Walrus]

My VM-Magnum. It is a tank and can handle anything and any conditions If it has to be a gun I don't have, then it would be my old 97 Cocker that I sold off years ago. Worked great on CO2 and never had any problems out of it.

[Indignant]

AKA or some kind of Matrix.

[craltal]

PPS Blazer, although the thought of double regging my Excal is quite intriguing.

Don't get me wrong, I do own a micromag with original valve (even has the spring as the powertube sizer) but all mags can get a tiny bit temper-mental on CO2 if you do something stupid.

[Dryden]

all these people who say mag have never played with one under 50 degree weather on co2. 98c all the way.I used my Minimag and a 16oz CO2 cylinder for years without any problems, whether it was a 95 degree day in July or 20 degrees in February. Some team members of mine have had Mags since '91 and I have never seen an issue with them.

Are you suggesting that the Mag elves don't like cold?

It's a mechanical marker, therefore there is nothing that can go wrong that can't be remedied with an appropriate mechanical solution. Bottle placement, orientation, siphon vs anti-siphon pin valves, hose length, velocity, amount of lube can all effect the function of the marker to achieve consistent operation at various temperatures.

As for the original question, my choice would be either a AM/MM or a VM-68.

[r-unit]

hmm....dm6 or tippmann effect 98 custom.

[craltal]

hmm....dm6 or tippmann effect 98 custom.

you'd run a DM6 on CO2?

[neppo1345]

Ummm...a tippmann C-3 DUHHHH....thats what they were made for!!!11!!11!

In reality...id bring my mech cocker. I've never replaced parts...just requires some tuning.

[GT]

you'd run a DM6 on CO2?

You can run anything on co2.

I would go with a classic mag or a mech cocker. Cocker, it easy to find parts for anywhere on the planet.

EDIT: If i have to play real man paintball, hike in hike out, I'd got with a phantom or a carter.

[magman007]

you'd run a DM6 on CO2?


read my post, i would deffinitely if i was forced to.

[MoeMag]

My old tippy procarbine, just because of the co2 thing.
Otherwise my three mags will get the job done.

[nate2k191]

pump markers?

[Arstron]

all these people who say mag have never played with one under 50 degree weather on co2. 98c all the way.

Actually I have, quite a bit with my very first classic mag. I didnt have an expansion chamber (a matter of fact, I didnt even have a foregrip), all I had was my coiled remote hose. It only froze up on me once and that was when there was snow on the ground. After I got a expansion chamber, I never had any problems with it freezing.

[etjoyride]

CO2 only, a superstocker

Compresse Air, an RT ULE custom

[REDRT]

Sounds like if many of you would jump ship if they had to use co2 to a tippmann :cry: . Not me, I'll tell ya. I'd use a blow gun or a sling shot before I'd use a tippy. If mags suddenly were to be wiped off the face of the planet and all gone. I guess then I'd quit all together. Is there no brand loyalty anymore?

[ultralight]

My VM-Magnum. It is a tank and can handle anything and any conditions If it has to be a gun I don't have, then it would be my old 97 Cocker that I sold off years ago. Worked great on CO2 and never had any problems out of it.


you beat me to it.

VM-68 magnum all the way.
that thing is such a tank it makes the 98 look like a cheap toy. i don't think there's been one part (including orings) replaced on mine since it was made, the thing just won't die! i'd be hard pressed to do any damage to it with anything less than a cutting torch or a band saw. the striker alone is one pound of solid stainless steel.
it has never quit on me (except that one time i tried to mess with the trigger assembly :eek: ) and i don't think it ever will.
and as an added bonus, at 9lb or more, it's still the only marker that you could legitimately use as a club when you run out of balls.

my second choice would be a bone stock classic mag with a remote.

[AutomagRT1483]

My trusty pumps
1st Choice: CCM Series V
2nd Choice: One of my 2 sheridan pump rifles ( I have no idea what they call them, but they look like shotguns. :D )
3rd Choice: SL-68 II

[snake_eater]

If you had to choose one marker for EVERY possible condition and cost what would you use?


This is assuming the worst of possible conditions, very little availability to parts, having to use CO2 a possibility.

Custom 98 RT with a bigshot, 20oz anti-syphon co2 tank and a pre-BE 12v revy with the xboard. If I had duct tape, an egg2.

[mr.mag218]

theres a private lable gun comin out in my area. very simple, easy to maintain, and 26 bps out of box. not to mention it weighs less then a pound. no name for it yet, but its goin to be around 800. i'll get one and show you guys, but til then i won't say crap :ninja:

[bleachit]

Sounds like if many of you would jump ship if they had to use co2 to a tippmann
its not exactly jumping ship since thats what I've been using... Ive owned 2 classic mags... and want to get one again, but still, in the worst possible conditions, I would trust that tippy to work without any problems where as the mag I would expect to have to mess around with it a bit...

not saying it wont work, but the tippy will without any issues whatsoever.

[topazpaintball]

...not to mention it weighs less then a pound.

WHOA

The lightest guns that come to mind are mags, remains, and those old reciprocating barrel things, but they are all over a pound. :tard:

[nate2k191]

theres a private lable gun comin out in my area. very simple, easy to maintain, and 26 bps out of box. not to mention it weighs less then a pound. no name for it yet, but its goin to be around 800. i'll get one and show you guys, but til then i won't say crap :ninja:

:ninja: what :ninja:


im gonna ninja loot it from you.

[REDRT]

its not exactly jumping ship since thats what I've been using... Ive owned 2 classic mags... and want to get one again, but still, in the worst possible conditions, I would trust that tippy to work without any problems where as the mag I would expect to have to mess around with it a bit...

not saying it wont work, but the tippy will without any issues whatsoever.

I differ, expecting nothing working as flawlessly as a mag even in extreme paintball conditions. My phylosophy is if you doubt your equipment it leads to doubting yourself. This sort of transference can cost you the win. I shoot mags, I'm very comfortable with mags and I never doubt their quality and abilty to be more reliable than anything else. Maybe jumping ship is a bad metaphor, but doubting is spot on. In my case don't confuse my loyalty as blind faith. I've over the coarse of many years. I have played in some wicked weather and have gotten through the day with out incident. What ever mag I choose to take into battle that day, I know it will not fail me as long as I haven't failed to properly care for it and in turn failed myself. Man and machine united. On the field I couldn't think of no other machine I'd rather be with.

Yes, Meredith that is my final answer. :D

[bleachit]

"My phylosophy is if you doubt your equipment it leads to doubting yourself"

I agree with you completely on this point.. I have no doubt that my tippy will shoot no matter what, I can chop, jump in a river, fall on it, drop it off a cliff, get hit by a hydrogen bomb, and then use it as a club if i catch someone wiping... and it will still shoot..

The tippy lets me not worry about anything but playing paintball... my spyder and mags that Ive used are not quite the same... there isnt a HUGE difference, but the difference is still there.

[REDRT]

Thats cool Bleachit. I'm not going to say anyones wrong. I'm now curious with the criteria the question from the first post presented how many abid mag users actually would stick by AGD and use their products in this scenerio? What is there now 2 of us that posted for mags? Tippmann in the lead. Sad since this is AO.

[Mescalito]

Sharpie... some dude marked 968 cds with one sharpie... http://www.cockeyed.com/inside/sharpie/sharpie1.html


A marker is a marker is a marker...

[VFX_Fenix]

If we're talking guns I owned. I'd start reaching for my A-5 or my '99 RF Cocker. If just guns in general... mmm... yeah, I'd still go for those, and probably a pump kit for the Cocker if things started getting really dicey.

[SpecialBlend2786]

my CCM Series5 cocker.

[FinchMan]

theres a private lable gun comin out in my area. very simple, easy to maintain, and 26 bps out of box. not to mention it weighs less then a pound. no name for it yet, but its goin to be around 800. i'll get one and show you guys, but til then i won't say crap :ninja:

pretty sure i've seen it. pretty slick piece of work. Sooo lightweight, so nice. :shooting:

as for what gun i would use regarless of price (on co2) probably a e-blazer. with dual stabilizers.

low availability of parts, palmers already has that. :tard:

[White_Noise]

for all of the requirements here, id either get:

classic mag with palmer stabilizer so i can play in the cold with co2

or

the mech cocker i used to have, nicest cocker ive ever shot, and it worked great on co2 in a pinch. not to mention i had it tuned/it still is tuned to have suction timing, never chopped with it with a revy on it.

[mr.mag218]

:ninja: what :ninja:


im gonna ninja loot it from you.
lol, i'll get you guys pic's when i buy one. i ran into mel from pbx not long ago, and i saw some pretty sweet stuff, and learned alot. AO will be thrilled once they see how it works.

[electriceel125]

AKA viking with dual stabalizers. Or PPS blazer with dual stabalizers.

[m-a-r-k-7]

I would have to say something from palmers. Probably a Typhoon, I've never really like the look of blazers for some reason. Palmers will run well on co2 or HPA, so it really doesn't matter.

[shortkidsrus]

VSC Phantom with 14" barrel.

[FinchMan]

lol, i'll get you guys pic's when i buy one. i ran into mel from pbx not long ago, and i saw some pretty sweet stuff, and learned alot. AO will be thrilled once they see how it works.

now i know i've seen it at the paintball expo in Pomona.

...and yes its way cool how it works.

[Death of Rats]

VSC Phantom with 14" barrel.


What on earth are you thinking. I wouldn't use that if my life depended on it.




Now if you had an 11" barrel on it kinda like my phantom then you might be alright and I might be a little bit more understanding. But fourteen inch arrghhh. Just messing with you.


I love my phantom and I wouldn't really care if I had all the air in the world or any high end super marker sitting in front of me. Love my warped fed LX Mag but it just isn't the same. As the man from the third Indiana Jones once said.


You have chosen... wisely. But, beware: the Phantom cannot pass beyond the Great Seal, for that is the boundry, and the price, of immortality.

Yeah but I really need it for this game on Saturday.

Hmmm well I guess just this once.


Couldn't trick me with some stupid cup.



Sorry, but we need a Connery quote


We named the *dog* Indiana.

[azzkikr]

prob an a5 rt or egrip, or a 98c with preaty much the same grips, just depends if the conditions allow a halo.

[Target Practice]

AR-15.

[mag_lover05]

pro/carbine or 98c. though im partial to just 98's GILLS OWN!


they work fine on co2, R/T is fast, mine NEVER/HAS NEVER/WILL NEVER BREAK. and the 12vlt.revvy (toughest loader thatll work with an R/T) mine has never broken!!!















NOTHING beats tippmann. i dont care what you say....it doesnt happen, and you know it.

[matt-o]

a classic mag, i dont care what you say about tippys. tippys are reliable and all but a mag is still more reliable in my eyes, and they outperform a tippy in almost every other way. the only thing the tippy has it beat in is efficiency and how it runs on co2. the most accurate gun i ever had was my old classic with the old unported stock barrel.

[K Wolf]

My sub 1500 s/n Tippmann ProLite I've had since I started playing eons ago. I've had to replace the ball detent twice, bolt oringsa few times, but thats it. I'm new to mags, but my new Pro Classic shoots down after a few rapid shots on CO2 (harness mounted 20oz,coil remote) (HPA, no problem). The tippmann doesn't care (velocity probably falls off, who knows? I'm busy adjusting my point of impact onto the target) I also have a 98C/rt, but it's not "proven" yet. In a few years it might be my answer to this question.

[mag_lover05]

you want accuracy....go fer phantom. it doesnt get better...i run +or-3 on unregulated co2.

[Brophog]

If you're going to use it as a hammer......I'd agree with the Tippmann crowd. I don't know about you guys, but I don't use my markers as hammers!

For that reason, I'd go with a Palmer. It's a better marker than a Tippmann, and still maintains high reliability. I've owned a Palmer for 2 years now, and I've yet to take a wrench to anything but the velocity screw.

Meanwhile......I've helped assemble many fellow player's Tippmann's that failed to work on game day.

[magbackforgood]

If you're going to use it as a hammer......I'd agree with the Tippmann crowd. I don't know about you guys, but I don't use my markers as hammers!

For that reason, I'd go with a Palmer. It's a better marker than a Tippmann, and still maintains high reliability. I've owned a Palmer for 2 years now, and I've yet to take a wrench to anything but the velocity screw.

Meanwhile......I've helped assemble many fellow player's Tippmann's that failed to work on game day.

I agree that you can shoot rocks out of tippmanns. But you give in shooting anything youi gain in a mag. I owned a 2003 Kapp reflex cocker. in fact its on ebay right now for sale. I have never owned a more accurate gun than a mag. Just my experience. i shot tippmanns and they have a load of recoil when fired versus the smooth action with my mag. GOOOOOOOOOOO MAGGGGGGGGGGGGGSSSS>!!!!! :clap:

[Aslan]

Wow...that's tough. I'd probably use my old Spyder. It's the gun I use now if I run out of HPA at an outlaw field. I struggle with whether it's more reliable than a Model 98...but I think it outperforms a stock Model 98...

As for the "brand loyalty" thing...that's silly. I don't "doubt my mag"...but I do know that it blows monkey parts on CO2. I KNOW that...because when I first got it I put a CO2 tank on it (w/a 6-stage expansion chamber) and it froze after like 6 shots. For those of us living in the North...using CO2 in months other than June, July, or August can become problematic. You can do it...certainly...but I'd hate to be on "Team Mag" in a big game in December in mid-Michigan :shooting: :wow: :argh:

The other thing is parts availability. I virtually can't use BE markers anymore...no parts/upgrades! I had a HUGe problem finding parts for my old Pro-Lite...finally found them...but it was really a pain. Now, given that AGD is slowly disappearing from the stores (at least around me)...it only begs the question...will parts availability be a problem 5-7 years down the road? And if you immediately yell "NO!"...just think about it...I have a Raptor Silver Eagle...nearly impossible to get parts/upgrades for...this is a marker made in volumes that FAR exceed that of the Mag...by a huge company that is still a big player in the business..as late as what, 3-4 years ago? Is it so far fetched to "possibly" think that maybe parts availability could be a problem in the future for a smaller company not mass distributing their product? :confused:

To counter my own point...the one thing AGD markers have going for them is that the valves and parts are virtually universally related...all mag parts fit all mags (with one or two exceptions maybe). This will help parts availability compared to BE where when they end a marker's production (and thus parts because they care little for the people that would like to own their older products) and there are no other markers with similar parts.