PSP reacts to events at Texas open

[Lohman446]

I found this letter in my e-mail today, and considering it was addressed to me by name had some concern (good automated system apparently). Considering I was not at the Texas Open, nor had anything to do with the following teams, I was rather relieved. Anyways, figured I would post it here... in its entirety


Dear Robert,

Several incidents at the 2006 PSP Texas Open have put a black spot on the sport of paintball. The conduct of teams and players may have reached an all-time low in and around this event.

Based on the number of incidents and the damage caused, both financially and to the reputation of paintball tournaments in general, I have decided to take unprecedented action in hopes of deterring players and teams from making the same mistakes in the future. These intolerable incidents affect the outcome of tournaments as well as the finances of the PSP and ultimately the finances of all teams, vendors, and sponsors involved in the tournament. They also affect the reputation of the sport of paintball and the ability of the PSP and other tournament organizers to find and secure desirable venues.

I feel it is time to hold people accountable for their immature, selfish, and irresponsible actions.


Over the past 5 months, PSP had been engaged in ongoing talks with the Marriott Corporation about future involvement with tournament paintball. The talk had progressed slowly, but steadily. Significant efforts on both sides were destroyed by the actions of teams staying in Marriott hotels in the Austin area during our Texas event.
Include strong call-to action links to various pages of your website to drive traffic and open up additional possibilities to convert browsers into buyers.The day after our staff returned from the event, we were contacted by Marriott and advised that they were not only uninterested in any additional talks, but that they were also letting their hotels in the area of our future events know not to book rooms for paintball teams or players.

This loss of a possible huge outside sponsor and hotel partner was brought about by the selfish acts of several teams who stayed at various Marriott hotels during the event. I have a list of names of people who booked the rooms that were damaged. I have cross referenced these names with the ID system. Until the teams provide the names of those specific individuals who caused the damage, every player on the roster of these teams will be suspended from PSP events.

Members of Team Demolition, Choppapb.com, Anarchy, Infinity, and Montage will be suspended for various lengths of time ranging from 1 tournament to a lifetime ban from PSP events. These suspensions stem from various degrees of damage done to the rooms and facilities of a Marriott hotel in which they were guests. Some of the people on these teams are responsible for the breaking off of talks between PSP and the Marriott Corporation regarding future rate deals, sponsorship, and additional involvement between the two companies.



Team Clutch won the Division 3 Xball tournament. They did so with an illegal roster. This was not simply an oversight, but was a deliberate act of manipulating the ID system, and submitting misleading information in order to have members of the team’s classification dropped. Part of this problem stems from the staff believing the stories told to them and consequently dropping players’ classifications. The other part of this problem was the deliberate and intentional misrepresentation of identity in order to have a team compete below its rightful level. At no point in the future will any player’s classification be changed regardless of circumstances. There is no need for any player to contact anyone in PSP with a request for classification change from this point on. It will not happen.
While I am certain that not all members of the team had prior knowledge of the scheme, I am left with no reasonable choice but to hold all accountable to some degree. The team has been stripped of all points from the Texas event. Several members of the team will be suspended from PSP events for 3 events. Others will be suspended for 1 year. Two individuals will be suspended for life. Adjustments will be made in terms of payout of prizes and distribution of tournament seed points toward year-end standings for the other teams in their division.

On Sunday, Todd Martinez decided to take a PSP-rented golf cart for a joy ride through the awards ceremony. He crashed the golf cart into the guide wires anchoring one of the tripod poles, which hold the net up on the NXL field. The tripod pole was bent and is no longer usable. The golf cart was damaged and PSP has been billed for the repairs. He will be suspended from play for 1 year. He must reimburse PSP for the damages to the golf cart before he will be allowed on the property of any future PSP event.

Here is the list of suspensions handed out to players/teams from the Texas event.

Billy York – probation
Trent Wilson – probation
Grover Srader – probation
Michael Fitzpatrick – probation
Jesse Babb – 1 year suspension
Tanner Russell – Lifetime ban from PSP events
Daniel Orren – 1 year suspension
Adam/Donald/DJ Thomsen – Lifetime ban from PSP events
Todd Martinez – 1 year suspension and reimbursement of costs for damage



The following is the list of players whose teams caused considerable damage and disruption to one of the hotels. PSP has no way of determining specifically which of the individuals on these teams who rented the rooms is ultimately responsible for the unacceptable actions. We are aware of the particular rooms that had damage, as well as the acts of outright stupidity that occurred. Thus, we are holding all members of the teams on which the players who rented the rooms are rostered accountable for the actions of their teammates.
At this point in time, the following players are suspended indefinitely. As more specific information becomes available, there may be changes made in regard to the duration of suspensions for individual players.

Team Demolition

CJ Botsalas
Travis Arango
Chad Bustere
Ryan Currie
Ramzi El-Yousef
Graydon Gesner
Dana Klibanoff
John Ossian
Daniel Riney
Arroldo Silva
Alex Spence
Erik Taylor

Choppapb.com

Josh Harper
James Harwood
Corey Jones
Andrew Macaluso
Aaron McCorkle
Robert Mcleod
Corey Neal
Zack Piper
Myles Vann
Richie Wade
Travis Walsh
Daniel Watson
Duane Watson

Anarchy

Adam Hagar
Mason Kane
Devin Peithmann
Cody Rich
Dan Riha

Infinity

Christopher Bobell
Robert Hamski
Pete Montero
Nick Sandalena
Robert Signor
Domencia Steele

I hope this message gets to the teams and players in the vein that it was intended. I would be remiss in my duties as the head of the world’s largest tournament league if I let these types of actions continue unpunished. The result of the misdeeds of players at this past event goes far beyond the scope of most players’ knowledge. We are losing sponsorship. We are losing respect. We are now losing the ability for teams to stay at hotels of their choice simply because they are related to the sport of paintball. If we decide to have another event in Texas, the PSP will not be able to rent equipment from the most reasonable vendor, making production of the event much more difficult. Other Texas paintball events may have to face these same issues. It is a very real possibility that no paintball players will be able to stay at Marriott Hotels in the future.

This is a simple message – players and teams competing in PSP events will be held accountable for their actions and the actions of their teammates and others involved with their team. Heed the warning!

Lane Wright CEO/President Paintball Sports Promotions

[SummaryJudgement]

Good....I'm glad that they are actually holding people accountable for their actions. It's bad that anything negative had to happen at any event, but if it does there should be consequences that reflect the severity of players actions. It's not too difficult to act civilized. It actually takes more effort to be a complete idiot.

[etjoyride]

Somehow, even though i live in texas, i hardly hear of any of this previously ti this thread. I heard there were some problems at PSP, but nothing definite. I am very glad that PSP is taking it in to their hands to deal out suitable punishment to the players involved, however iam also worried that tournaments in texas might star getting harder and harder to play. I only hope that this all works out. Oh and i'm guessing that you got this message because there was an email sent to everybody on the PSP mailing list(just a thoguht)

[RusskiX]

Looks great on paper...

Now let's see how the actual enforcement / longevity of these punishments will be handled. Lets not forget how promoters are prone to changes of mind...

[ultralight]

russki:
this may have permanently ruined their chances at securing a partnership with an outside company, i doubt they'll take it lightly.

i hate seeing this more than i hate seeing vandals shooting at pedestrians. with vandals paintballers can at least say, "well, they didn't actually play the sport, they were just misusing the equipment.". but we can't disavow these people. they are our professional players. they are supposed to be our shining example that we hold up to the world and say, "see? we're not a bunch of rambo caveman warmongers! we're responsible athletes!" they have shamed the sport and burned bridges that may never be rebuilt. they should be ashamed of themselves. i know i am.

:( :mad:

[Steelrat]

With the thug-like behavior that is common, and even encouraged, in the sport, is this really a surprise? You gotta love the fact that Todd Martinez is getting suspended for a year, though. Remember, he is supposed to be one of the primary ambassadors or the sport.

What a joke.

[nippinout]

Glory boys.

[BobTheCow]

Anybody know what exactly happened? This thread is entirely too short on quality gossip.

[Evintos]

Look at the first post...

[peewee]

:D Damn happy to see it. The "attitude" needs to be removed from the sport. I have been to a few tourneys as of late & noticed that they no longer have a sportsmanship award. Whats up with that?

[Carbon]

"pro players"

:rofl:

[geekwarrior]

:clap: that their getting punished
:cry: for the name of paintball

[cowboy_00]

And this my friends is the Reason Sprye Bane and I are strictly scenario players.
the only time you will see us playing speedball is with pump markers.

Its just shameful the way players of speedball behave these days, we go to the local field for some rec-ball and this is all you see. Sure their is some cheating out in the woods, but honestly, in comparison at least im not worried about getting my butt kicked.

:nono: on speedballers, especially those mentioned.

ill go back to this now. :shooting:

:ninja: (ninja stab the icky bad mouthing speedballers)

[AGD]

I am SHOCKED!! For so many years pro players have been terrific role models for our sport, thats why they get all the sponsorship isn't it????

AGD

[cowboy_00]

I am SHOCKED!! For so many years pro players have been terrific role models for our sport, thats why they get all the sponsorship isn't it????

AGD


Tom, We love you and your sarcastic remarks.

Actually we just want you for your markers but I didnt say that.

[MoeMag]

Good, about time

Hopefully that will filter down to local fields, and the “Attitude” will start to go away.

[pachytriton]

It's great to start seeing promoter's take action, hopefully promoters will start taking a harder stand against cheating. I think this is a wake-up call against the whole agg gansta attitude.

[tyrion2323]

And this my friends is the Reason Sprye Bane and I are strictly scenario players.
the only time you will see us playing speedball is with pump markers.

Its just shameful the way players of speedball behave these days, we go to the local field for some rec-ball and this is all you see. Sure their is some cheating out in the woods, but honestly, in comparison at least im not worried about getting my butt kicked.

:nono: on speedballers, especially those mentioned.

ill go back to this now. :shooting:

:ninja: (ninja stab the icky bad mouthing speedballers)

It's a good thing that you didn't miss the point completely.

[Aggravated Assault]

This kinda crap dosen't suprise me at all. the only thing that does, is the apparent line drawn in the sand by psp. Then again, their hand was forced. Hopefully they will stick to their guns. If the psp (or whoever) wants to "break out" into the "mainstream" like they claim, they neet to take more hard line stands. With everything.

This could be a good trend....

:cheers: Heres to more suspensions by the end of 2006!

[FSU_Paintball]

Wow @ all the biting remarks directed towards speedballers. Even Tom.

It's a good thing that all woodsballers/scenario players are angels :rolleyes:

Most of the people on that list are on there simply because they had one or two teammates cause trouble. So out of THOUSANDS of participants.... THOUSANDS of 15-25 year olds... that's probably 10-20 people causing the trouble detailed here.

Am I to believe that woodsballers are statistically any better behaved than that? Please.




On a side note, I'm getting crucified on PBN for saying this.... the players were VERY wrong with what they did, but I think the PSP is overreaching their bounds by punishing players for actions that happened OUTSIDE OF THE TOURNAMENT AND OFF THE FIELD. Mariott should take it up with the players, not the PSP. How were the players supposed to know that the PSP was making a deal with Mariott?

[Tao]

Hey I might even want to play in a psp event. Those players would most likely make up most of the cheaters on the field, it takes that kind of mentality.

[Automaggot68]

Tom, We love you and your sarcastic remarks.

Actually we just want you for your markers but I didnt say that.


Who were you again?

[Lohman446]

On a side note, I'm getting crucified on PBN for saying this.... the players were VERY wrong with what they did, but I think the PSP is overreaching their bounds by punishing players for actions that happened OUTSIDE OF THE TOURNAMENT AND OFF THE FIELD. Mariott should take it up with the players, not the PSP. How were the players supposed to know that the PSP was making a deal with Mariott?

There actions off field violated PSP rules. Punishment by PSP is to be expected.


http://www.pspevents.com/uploads/PSP2006RulesGeneralRev3.pdf)][/url]
8. Miscellaneous
8.1. Decorum
8.1.1. Persons attending an event will refrain from wearing or otherwise displaying offensive
pictures, words, logos or other materials at the event. Persons displaying such offensive
materials may be instructed to remedy the situation and/or be assessed a minor penalty.
8.1.2. Persons attending an event shall refrain from engaging in any conduct that would bring the promoter, the tournament or any sponsor into disrepute, including, but not limited to, trashing hotel rooms, discharge of markers in an area not designated as a playing or chronograph area, the willful destruction of private property, engaging in physical altercations except in defense of one’s person against an unprovoked aggressor, or the commission of a criminal act.
8.1.3. An ultimate judge or other authorized official may assign a minor or major suspension toany person who violates decorum.

I would say the rules are pretty clear

[rabidchihauhau]

1. whether scenario gamers have ever behaved in the same manner is beside the point: the actions at PSP Texas tar ALL of paintball.

2. FSU - you're dead wrong. The LEAGUE contracted with the hotel and the LEAGUE is therefore the 'go to' guys when it comes to dealing with the BS.

Since you obviously don't know: its very important for any organization that deals with hotels, convention & visitor bureaus, tourist boards & etc., first, to appear to represent a large organization so that they can get lower rates, and secondly, to look as if they can control the behavior of their membership.

3. This is at least partly the responsibility of the entire industry for getting into bed with the 'bad boy' culture; now that we're there, its going to take a looong time and concerted effort to change it, something I'm sorry to say I don't think the industry is capable of doing

4. Tom, stop laughing so hard, you;re gonna hurt yourself.

[Maggot6]

..Seeing as how I have never been to any big events such as this one, well, I am kinda appalled at how stupid and irresponsible some of these people are..

[geekwarrior]

um...tom said pro players, not speedball.....oh, becuase you though the only important paintballers were speedball players..i get it now

the reason people are lashing out at the speedballers is because they are in the public eye so to speak, and they are the ones acting like retards....






Wow @ all the biting remarks directed towards speedballers. Even Tom.

It's a good thing that all woodsballers/scenario players are angels :rolleyes:

Most of the people on that list are on there simply because they had one or two teammates cause trouble. So out of THOUSANDS of participants.... THOUSANDS of 15-25 year olds... that's probably 10-20 people causing the trouble detailed here.

Am I to believe that woodsballers are statistically any better behaved than that? Please.




On a side note, I'm getting crucified on PBN for saying this.... the players were VERY wrong with what they did, but I think the PSP is overreaching their bounds by punishing players for actions that happened OUTSIDE OF THE TOURNAMENT AND OFF THE FIELD. Mariott should take it up with the players, not the PSP. How were the players supposed to know that the PSP was making a deal with Mariott?

[dahoeb]

Who were you again?

Who were you again?


oh wait, its a public forum and shouldn't matter..... ;)

but it is good that they're at least cracking down the "thug" behavior. it wouldve been a shame if they did just let it pass, that would send the completely wrong message. paintballing doesn't need a boat party scandal like the vikings do. :cheers:

[skipdogg]

Good for them... Bunch O Losers. See ya!

[shartley]

As pointed out above, the “industry” (not all however) promoted this type of player and behavior. Now they are paying for it. They wanted a little heat, now they have a fire…. good luck.

[Steelrat]

As pointed out above, the “industry” (not all however) promoted this type of player and behavior. Now they are paying for it. They wanted a little heat, now they have a fire…. good luck.

You must be quoting me, because this has been my mantra for a while now ;) .

[CrimsonGhost]

Dang folks Don't you read PBN ?

Don't you know being BANNED is cool now?
You can put it in your sig now...and be the envy of all the little snap heads everywhere.

Makes you an outlaw .... kinda puts you into the bad boys niche.
50 c , Scarface , etc.

All that is HOT now.

Didn't some guy get hung out on terror charges for doing the car through a crowd of people routine a few weeks back?

I know its a golf cart but...Damn he is cool !!
To bad no one got hurt or more property wasn't damaged.
You wouldn't be able to touch the guy then.
Sponsors out the WAAAAHHHZZZZOOOO!!!
He could have a Bently cart next year!!

All kidding aside. :rofl:

Dumb Dumb Dumb.

All that realy needs to be said.

That and ...hehe, See you next year. :rofl:

[shartley]

You must be quoting me, because this has been my mantra for a while now ;) .
Nah... but I have been saying it for a good long time as well. Maybe this is where we once again say... "I told you so..." ;)

[Steelrat]

Nah... but I have been saying it for a good long time as well. Maybe this is where we once again say... "I told you so..." ;)

Indeed. Chickens come home to roost.

[Recon by Fire]

Nice to see someone trying to enforce some "reasonable person" standards on this run amok brats. Yes, taht is exactly what that type of behviour represents. Let's just hope they actually do enforce the punishment and don't retract it after some brats cry to their parents loud and long enough. Be a firm parent PSP!

FSU; I wouldn't say all woodsball/scenario players are angels. But when is the last time you heard of mass hotel damage at a scenario game?

Hopefully Marriott persues these individuals themselves for compensation and criminal charges if need be.

Police your own :cheers:

[bleachit]

so, what I have gotten out of this... its ok to be a complete tool, as long as you dont cost PSP any money?

edit: maybe this will result in stricter standards across the board.... or maybe everyone will forget in 4 months and it will happen again

[50 cal]

This will be a huge black mark against the sport and will make other major corporations think twice about sponsorships.
Thanks boneheads. :mad:

[MntlHazrd]

...hmm, could this increase my chance to achieve higher standings in a PSP event? :rolleyes:

[warbeak2099]

In a way, this is great. We finally have a precedent set for what will happen to players that tarnish our sport's name. Although, if you make a mistake that big, your punishment should be a lot more severe. Anyone who ruins that big of a deal, or who maliciously cheats should be ridiculed in front of the entire paintball community and banned for life. If the punishments were harsher, people might start to realize that acting like a moron isn't worth it. We need a black list lol. Any player that screws our image up gets black listed at every field and store across the country. That would be hilarious.

[GT]

I can't be the only one that can see the big picture? AS TK has quoted below I am sure this hasnt been predicted or happened in the past. Lets think about what is going on in the industry. If you guys have been reading lately it sounds like sales are taking a decline in the last six months.


So if PSP was making the coin do you think they would bother to discpline thier glory boys?

When I was in college I had the opertunity to host a few confrenecs. If your making good money you just right a check for the damages and send a nasty gram to the offender. Hotels, typically, don't care if you trash their place as long as you pay for the damages. Rest assured you are not paying for replacement cost on damages, so they are making money on the back end.

The only time you negotiate is when you cant come to terms with the current contract, e.g. you cant deliever on your side of the table. PSP is in trouble.


I am SHOCKED!! For so many years pro players have been terrific role models for our sport, thats why they get all the sponsorship isn't it????

AGD

I am as shocked as you are.

[Beemer]

Isnt this the same tourny lasoya point blanked a guy to the back of the head on the field, while said guy was conversing with a ref?

Wouldnt that fall under this rule?

8.1.2. engaging in physical altercations except in defense of one’s person against an unprovoked aggressor, or the commission of a criminal act.

I know the team took action against him but did the PSP?

[Rudz]

Isnt this the same tourny lasoya point blanked a guy to the back of the head on the field, while said guy was conversing with a ref?

Wouldnt that fall under this rule?

8.1.2. engaging in physical altercations except in defense of one’s person against an unprovoked aggressor, or the commission of a criminal act.

I know the team took action against him but did the PSP?


friggin exactly...no nothing happned to him..but no.. the marriot costs them money..so its bad...

[Maghog]

Warbreak's idea of a blacklist is actually a really good one. With the right amount of publicity, it might achieve something. There are a bunch of "pro" players who are known for cheating, and actions like Lasoya's border on assault. We need to make our community aware of cheaters and people who purposely use their guns to inflict pain on others.
Would you want to be on such a list? I wouldn't.
If there would be a collective site that listed individuals and displayed video footage(there's enough out there)of wipers, gun tossers, rule breakers and tantrum throwers, then some of us would have a place to go and vent.
A lot of us a fed up with the attitudes of others, retreating into the woods with a few honest friends or quitting the game altogether. There is no accountability from those who tarnish the image of our sport, because they just don't care. We are left to worry about where things are headed and pick up the tatters they leave behind.
Complaining is better than doing nothing, taking action is something that might change things.

[hitech]

friggin exactly...no nothing happned to him..but no.. the marriot costs them money..so its bad...

And that is the bottom line. Nothing changes until it costs someone enough money...

[SummaryJudgement]

Warbreak's idea of a blacklist is actually a really good one. With the right amount of publicity, it might achieve something. There are a bunch of "pro" players who are known for cheating, and actions like Lasoya's border on assault. We need to make our community aware of cheaters and people who purposely use their guns to inflict pain on others.
Would you want to be on such a list? I wouldn't.
If there would be a collective site that listed individuals and displayed video footage(there's enough out there)of wipers, gun tossers, rule breakers and tantrum throwers, then some of us would have a place to go and vent.
A lot of us a fed up with the attitudes of others, retreating into the woods with a few honest friends or quitting the game altogether. There is no accountability from those who tarnish the image of our sport, because they just don't care. We are left to worry about where things are headed and pick up the tatters they leave behind.
Complaining is better than doing nothing, taking action is something that might change things.

Here, here!




And that is the bottom line. Nothing changes until it costs someone enough money...

Unfortunately, yes.......

[SlartyBartFast]

And that is the bottom line. Nothing changes until it costs someone enough money...

Or someone dies. :(

[hitech]

Warbreak's idea of a blacklist is actually a really good one.

Actually it is not a new idea. Way back when Lively Productions started a list of penalties with the team and individuals names. Unfortunately it didn't get very far. In my opinion tournaments took many steps backward after Lively quit doing tournaments.

[hitech]

Or someone dies. :(

But that will cost someone money... :wow:

[Arstron]

Warbreak's idea of a blacklist is actually a really good one. With the right amount of publicity, it might achieve something. There are a bunch of "pro" players who are known for cheating, and actions like Lasoya's border on assault. We need to make our community aware of cheaters and people who purposely use their guns to inflict pain on others.
Would you want to be on such a list? I wouldn't.
If there would be a collective site that listed individuals and displayed video footage(there's enough out there)of wipers, gun tossers, rule breakers and tantrum throwers, then some of us would have a place to go and vent.
A lot of us a fed up with the attitudes of others, retreating into the woods with a few honest friends or quitting the game altogether. There is no accountability from those who tarnish the image of our sport, because they just don't care. We are left to worry about where things are headed and pick up the tatters they leave behind.
Complaining is better than doing nothing, taking action is something that might change things.

I would be willing to take care of hosting and a domain name if somone wanted to design a site just for this. :cheers:

[Recon by Fire]

Or someone dies. :(


That's it then, we kill the wipers.....nuke 'em from orbit, only way to be sure...

[rabidchihauhau]

Oh jeez, now we're going to throw lively in there as a role model? Come on. Game screwing through field/flag station assignments, inadequate number of refs on the fields, poorly trained refs (never even heard of paintball before today...)

Let's put it this way: in 1992, Lively Productions had an opportunity to become THE tournament production company at his Texas Open. All they had to do was: 1. give all teams 8 prelim games instead of 6 (which was scheduled so that doing so did not cost extra money) 2. schedule games so that teams did not play the same teams on the second day (which was possible to do without adding any extra cost) and 3. provide balanced field layouts - (we had a volunteer crew of knowledgable people ready to do this).

Lively Productions originally agreed to provide those changes and then failed to implement a single one of them. That fact, and that fact ALONE led directly to the meeting that created the NPPL.

Blacklist? Please tell me what above-suspicion-no-conflict-of-interest-no-hidden-agendas-no-monetary-interest person or group is trustworthy enough to maintain such a thing?

Videos? Are you kidding me? So the guy is playing with a visible hit on him. The camera doesn't show the ref telling him to keep playing, nor does it show the player who shot him after already being eliminated. But there's your Watergate - you can see it. Let's run through the video and find the guy's name. (The video also doesn't tell you that the player in question is wearing someone else's jersey this game)

Puh-leaze! The ONLY thing that stands half a chance of working is if this sport had a central governing body that had some real teeth behind it: Not going to happen this year. When leagues themselves can reclassify players willy-nilly to suit their own needs, when players can circumvent the registration system by signing up 'late', when players who are under punishment can jump to another league; forget it.

You guys are attacking this thing like it was a sport and finding fault because it doesn't match your picture of a 'sport'. Well, guess what? Its not a sport. When the rules themselves create a situation in which the officials are unable to enforce the rules, you have a game, that only works so long as everyone agrees to go along for the sake of going along. And I don't see too many people going along anymore.

[hitech]

Oh jeez, now we're going to throw lively in there as a role model? Come on.
Sure. I would say that tournaments are no better run today than his were. That was 16 years ago.


Game screwing through field/flag station assignments, inadequate number of refs on the fields, poorly trained refs (never even heard of paintball before today...)

Well, when I played the masters with Constant Pursuit back in the stoneage we got screwed out of first place in the final game by exactly those thlngs. And while the speedball format has fixed the flag placement issue, other issues have filled in. If you saw that game you know just how bad we got screwed. If after that I still think it was run as well as todays, it should tell you something.



Let's put it this way: in 1992, Lively Productions had an opportunity to become THE tournament production company at his Texas Open.

I wasn't there so I cannot really comment. They were beginning to implement some very good ideas. Regardless of their faults they were implementing good ideas that are still NOT part of tournament ball today. And that is very sad.


Lively Productions originally agreed to provide those changes and then failed to implement a single one of them. That fact, and that fact ALONE led directly to the meeting that created the NPPL.

While I am sure it had a big impact, teams wanting to us there own paint was a big factor, whether they admitted it or not.


Blacklist?

I wasn't suggesting a blacklist. Simply a listhg of penalties per team and per person. Cheaters would stand out. Now, what one does with that information is highly debatable.


:cheers:

[IcantBelieveit]

all this stuff is exactly why i got out of tourney play....politics politics politics.....is there anything you can do today without politics.....jeezus!!! It just makes me mad..how a few sours apples ( and they are a few compared to the large number have to ruin something fun....i HAD fun playing tournies....it got old....there were always a bunch of whiner *****ers and complainers that did not like the refs call....or though he was unfairly tagged...always wanted to blame something other then his play....screw it...i play rec ball.....more fun that tournies in my opinion

[Shykicker]

Well, here's the part I thought was kind of funny and uncanny...


The following is the list of players whose teams caused considerable damage and disruption to one of the hotels. ...

Team Demolition

(spit-take) Wait, WHAT? Team Demolition.... demolished stuff? :D :D :D

[CKY_Alliance]

Wow @ all the biting remarks directed towards speedballers. Even Tom.

It's a good thing that all woodsballers/scenario players are angels :rolleyes:

Most of the people on that list are on there simply because they had one or two teammates cause trouble. So out of THOUSANDS of participants.... THOUSANDS of 15-25 year olds... that's probably 10-20 people causing the trouble detailed here.

Am I to believe that woodsballers are statistically any better behaved than that? Please.




On a side note, I'm getting crucified on PBN for saying this.... the players were VERY wrong with what they did, but I think the PSP is overreaching their bounds by punishing players for actions that happened OUTSIDE OF THE TOURNAMENT AND OFF THE FIELD. Mariott should take it up with the players, not the PSP. How were the players supposed to know that the PSP was making a deal with Mariott?



QFT

Thats what makes no sense to me, the fact that they will punish them for something that happened outside of the tournament...it's like me getting suspended from school for fighting someone at my house...ftw?? Doesnt make much since to me...i can understand that the PSP has to keep its name respectful and these people may have made them look bad, but people who witnessed this behavior didn't neccesarly know they played paintball in the PSP...and for the behavior of players to dettour(sp) buisness indeavors between two major companies or corporations whatever they may be considered is riddicolous in its own right...(once again i cann see marriot may not want their name to be used in the same sentence as the naughty speedballers...)ehh you get my point..i see both sides but it's still riddiculous....

[robnix]

Thats what makes no sense to me, the fact that they will punish them for something that happened outside of the tournament...it's like me getting suspended from school for fighting someone at my house...ftw??

I think it's more like going to a conference for your company, getting drunk, and puking all over the General Manager of the hosting hotel while stumbling throught the the lobby. The fight you get into at your friends house is on your own time, going to an event/conference and acting as a representative for your sport/company is on their time.

[CKY_Alliance]

I think it's more like going to a conference for your company, getting drunk, and puking all over the General Manager of the hosting hotel while stumbling throught the the lobby. The fight you get into at your friends house is on your own time, going to an event/conference and acting as a representative for your sport/company is on their time.


i could understand each teams sponsor getting upset at them but not psp whom they pay to play in their series...so i dont see it's anything like repersenting your company because its not, the players are more of customers to psp then employees...make sense? I think..

[CoolHand]

Yes, the PSP shouldn't have done anything at all. (<--- Sarcasm, in case you can't tell)

The hotel should have had them all arrested.

Actions have consequences people, this is how the real world operates.

Do something stupid, pay the price.

IMO, a night in jail, and an arrest on their record would have been a lesson well learned, as well as payment for all the damage caused.

I'd like to see how "gangsta" or "rock-n-roll" they are after a night in the tank with slappy the crack dealer. :rofl:

[behemoth]

Yes, the PSP shouldn't have done anything at all.

The hotel should have had them all arrested.

Actions have consequences people, this is how the real world operates.

Do something stupid, pay the price.

IMO, a night in jail, and an arrest on their record would have been a lesson well learned, as well as payment for all the damage caused.

I'd like to see how "gangsta" or "rock-n-roll" they are after a night in the tank with slappy the crack dealer. :rofl:

I smoke rocks.

[robnix]

i could understand each teams sponsor getting upset at them but not psp whom they pay to play in their series...so i dont see it's anything like repersenting your company because its not, the players are more of customers to psp then employees...make sense? I think..

I've worked at trade shows for that were hosted by my previous company. We expected nothing less from the employees of the companies that came to see our product than what was expected from our own employees. I'm sure the other companies felt the same way, even though they paid to send their employees there. If the PSP was embarrased by people that attended thier event, then they have every right to tell them that they're not welcome to come back.

When I was a kid, I used to pay to be in swim meets, if it was an overnighter, we were expected to behave no matter where we were for the duration of the meet.

[CKY_Alliance]

I've worked at trade shows for that were hosted by my previous company. We expected nothing less from the employees of the companies that came to see our product than what was expected from our own employees. I'm sure the other companies felt the same way, even though they paid to send their employees there. If the PSP was embarrased by people that attended thier event, then they have every right to tell them that they're not welcome to come back.

When I was a kid, I used to pay to be in swim meets, if it was an overnighter, we were expected to behave no matter where we were for the duration of the meet.


If i pay to play in a series and i pay for my hotel room then whatever i wanna break should be my buisness and i will have to suffer the consequences given by the hotel...but im not going to be kicked out of a series i payed to play in and have commited no infraction in...see what im saying...i just don't see why PSP got involved other then to make them look better so they could salvage their deal with Marriot...

[geekwarrior]

If i pay to play in a series and i pay for my hotel room then whatever i wanna break should be my buisness and i will have to suffer the consequences given by the hotel...but im not going to be kicked out of a series i payed to play in and have commited no infraction in...see what im saying...i just don't see why PSP got involved other then to make them look better so they could salvage their deal with Marriot...


that seems like a contradiction...you said the players had nothing to do with psp while at the hotel, they were on their own time, yet you noted that psp was losing out on a deal because of the players actions...hmmm......

[phantomhitman]

You gotta love the fact that Todd Martinez is getting suspended for a year, though. Remember, he is supposed to be one of the primary ambassadors or the sport.

What a joke.

when was he ever remotely close to being a paintball ambassador? He is the biggest flunky on dynasty.

I am glad they are handing down fines, suspenions, and rules changes. I have seen a ton of immature behavior myself but nothing was ever done about it. They get what they deserve. But everyone try to focus on the bad issues, ok? That way the other %90 of the teams with common sense go un-noticed.

[CKY_Alliance]

that seems like a contradiction...you said the players had nothing to do with psp while at the hotel, they were on their own time, yet you noted that psp was losing out on a deal because of the players actions...hmmm......


I assume that much, if it wasnt for that they may have just let them be...so i dont know..my point is i dont see why they are being punished by psp when they did not commit any punishable offense within a psp event...but instead on their own time in a hotel room they paid for...honestly its not anyones buisness, but the players and hotel, what they do in the room...I dont know doesnt much matter because its not my problem..

[hitech]

...but instead on their own time in a hotel room they paid for...honestly its not anyones buisness...

When ones actions reflect negatively on a group of other people, those people are going to take action to stop it if they are able. Do something entirely on your own time and have it reflect negatively on your employer. If it's bad enough you wont be working there much longer...

An example. You are on a business trip and stay in a hotel. You trash the hotel room in the same manner as the teams did at the PSP event. The hotel calls the client you were working for and tells them that because of your actions the client will no longer get special pricing, nor will they be allowed to stay at the hotel. How long do you think you will work for your company?