are pump guns more accurate?

[nycityinsomniac]

what is so good about phantoms?
can they really compete against semi autos?

[nycityinsomniac]

is it better to convert an autococker to a pump or just buy a nice phantom?

[FlawleZ]

is it better to convert an autococker to a pump or just buy a nice phantom?

Its personal preference. I think most will tell you here that the Phantom would be the better choice if you're solely looking for pump play with your gun. The Autococker is nice because it can be converted in a few minutes from pump to semi with the pump kit.

And you can't compare pumps to semis. Some semis are almost as slow as pumps and others do well over 30 BPS. In the end, the player is the most important part by any means, but when it comes down to it, firepower is definitely prevalent in almost all situations nowadays.

[Pyrate Jim]

I play with a pump against semi's all the time, rec and tourney.

The only advantage a semi has over a pump is ROF. However, playing at a disadvantage is what will make you into a better player. Just like a runner will use leg weights to strengthen his muscles, using a pump will strengthen your playing skills.

So it's not the marker, it's the guy using it.

[Lohman446]

No, a pump marker is not inherently more accurate than a semi.

Most pump players, however, take the time to be more accurate.

[neppo1345]

I play with my phantom against semis as well. Everyone looks at me weird until they're walking off the field.

With the autotrigger I can still shoot fast enough to lay down cover for my team if need be.

as the Pyrate said above. If you're looking for occasional pump play, convert a cocker.

Edit: As Loh said, pumpers usually take the time to AIM instead of walking paint on target.

[paullus99]

CCM makes some really good pumps. At our Pump Day a couple of weekends ago, one really good player (speedballer who loves to play pump) was able to use the Autotrigger feature to great effectiveness....he took 1st Place in our One-on-One.

[JOESPUD27]

No, a pump marker is not inherently more accurate than a semi.

Most pump players, however, take the time to be more accurate.
I agree. Pumps can definantly compete. I might have a Phantom VSC with t-stock FS/FT shortly. PM Me if you're interested...

Jay

[craltal]

One major difference is that a sniper (the official name for a pump 'cocker) will normally be heavier than a similarly setup phantom. It's also a bit difficult to find stock class feed tubes for center-feed cocker bodies. There's also the Nelson style internals vs. Sheridan style, etc...

basically, it all comes down to preference, what you already have, and are willing to spend. Unless you are playing professional level paintball, you shouldn't find yourself too greatly outgunned.

[Spinnygrass]

http://webdog.specialopspaintball.com/video/tipclip/WDR30hi.wmv

[Duzzy]

Just an FYI you can edit your original post, you don't have to make 2 or 3.

As for a Sniper over a Phantom it is all preference. Some people like the feel of a Sheridan (KPs, Snipers, Palmers, other assorted brass etc.) and some people like the feel of Nelsons (Phantoms, Carters, 007s etc.).

Both usually require tuning for optimum performance, although I think that Nelsons are better on 12 grams in the long run.

[hobbesTZ]

The problem with Snipers is that it's hard to balance the springs, and you're pneumatic setup would probably be differant from your pump setup so it's not necessarily a breeze to switch between them. Phantoms can be had cheap enough as it is. A lot of people have old Sheridans that still work very well, but the Phantom/Sniper is the best choice for being able to use barrel kits, it's a pain in the *** when your pain rolls out the barrel.

I personally like my Sterling. I don't mind that it's hard to find barrels for in that the pump stroke is very nice and it just suits me well.

[SCpoloRicker]

Yes. Yes they do.

[Carbon Blue]

watched a tourney with team blowfish i believe and they completely rolled a team full of DM5s with their pumps. :eek:

[Maghog]

Sterlings rule!

[wanna-b-ballin']

no. they are just as accurate. but they are more fun to play with.

[buzzboy]

Does anybody know who was in the pic posted on here(I think) taking down electo guys with a blade. In pumps I like the cockers/palmers over the Phantoms etc. I would say that only because of looks and I like bigger markers(yes, broad felt tip). Performance wise I don't see that much of a difference.

I also think Mag pumps are pretty sick just because they are open bolt, which is pimp.

[ThePixelGuru]

http://webdog.specialopspaintball.com/video/tipclip/WDR30hi.wmv
Wow, that video proves nothing. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell you that's not a very accurate test...

[Temo Vryce]

A single shot with a semi will be just as accurate as a single shot with a pump. Rapid firing with either marker type will start to throw off your accuracy.

[Kevmaster]

Loh hit the nail on the head.

The pumps are not more accurate than the semis, but usually the pumpERS are more accurate than hte semi-USERS.

[Target Practice]

dude pumps suk my ion it da cool3st

[Gunther_mag_user]

dude pumps suk my ion it da cool3st
Werd.

[automikey]

No, a pump marker is not inherently more accurate than a semi.

Most pumps fire when the bolt is closed and the ball is at rest; many semis are open bolt which knocks the ball around a bit and into the breech just before firing. Some people would say that this makes most pumps more accurate by design. Due to all the variables, the difference is really difficult to try to measure.

Perhaps a single-shot bench test comparison would give an answer.



Most pump players, however, take the time to be more accurate.

I think this is 95% of the answer.

Pump players often play a little differently. You may think you were hit because the pump guy was more accurate, but he's also been setting you up for a few minutes.

[bentothejam1n]

wow way to research this topic nycity

[personman]

I think pumps tend to have the illusion of being more accurate since you are only firing a single ball; when you fire fast on a semi you can see the shot grouping in the air and it looks inaccurate. The fact of the matter is that if you put pneumatics on that pump (autococker) it will be just as accurate as when you had it as a pump.

I guess pumps would be a little more accurate because they have less kick though.

[Duzzy]

Depends on the pump. A Sniper should have just as much kick firing as a Cocker (i.e. The kick caused by the ball leaving the barrel.) because the re-cocking mechanism is not part of the firing sequence.

An open bolt marker could potentially have less kick if the bolt slamming forward cancelled the kick caused by the ball leaving the barrel. Unless it has no cancelling effect moving forward and the bolt moving back only serves to amplify the force created by the ball leaving the barrel.

Or I guess I could have no idea what I'm talking about as well...

[vonort]

No to answer the title of the post.

[nycityinsomniac]

wow way to research this topic nycity

i rather just post the question in a forum, looks like i got the responses i wanted.
keep the smart a$$ comments at a rest, thanks.

[Fred]

Pump guns are not specifically more accurate. The kick issue comes up, but I don't think it has as much to do with accuracy as this factor:

pump players aim better.

[nycityinsomniac]

No to answer the title of the post.

you're quite the articulate one

[JOESPUD27]

I responded to whoever PM'd me...

Jay

P.S. It's late, OK, I forgot...

[bentothejam1n]

i rather just post the question in a forum, looks like i got the responses i wanted.
keep the smart a$$ comments at a rest, thanks.

Do not try to circumvent the cuss filters by using spaces or other characters
i think some one needs to calm down and stop making smart :cuss: remarks :D . If you take the time to search you will find a lot of posts pertaining to the accuracy of pump and semi guns.
Example a
http://automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=187335&highlight=pump+accuracy
example b
http://automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=185043&highlight=pump+accuracy
example c
http://automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=179774&highlight=pump+accuracy
I could go on but I dont want to be a smart :cuss: , now do I??
Now i'm not saying that posting is bad just use the search button
/wheres behemoth when you need him??

[usagi_tetsu]

Video for the doubters:
Show 29 - Are pump guns more accuracy? (http://webdog.specialopspaintball.com/video/tipclip/p7.html)
Show 28 - Accuracy Techniques (http://webdog.specialopspaintball.com/video/tipclip/s2/p7.html)

Those two pretty much sum it all up: pump markers are not more accurate than semi's. They players who use them tend to be more accurate because they tend to hold the markers in appropriate, stable stances when firing, and as they are usually at a ROF deficit, pump players tend to make as many shots count to level the playing field.

As for the other major question: can pump players compete with semi's? If they've got the skill, yes. I'm a decent Novice player and have had my buttocks handed to me by guys playing stock class against my rapid-fire paintflingers.

[BTAutoMag]

wow way to research this topic nycity


took the words out of my mouth

[ThePixelGuru]

Depends on the pump. A Sniper should have just as much kick firing as a Cocker (i.e. The kick caused by the ball leaving the barrel.) because the re-cocking mechanism is not part of the firing sequence.

An open bolt marker could potentially have less kick if the bolt slamming forward cancelled the kick caused by the ball leaving the barrel. Unless it has no cancelling effect moving forward and the bolt moving back only serves to amplify the force created by the ball leaving the barrel.

Or I guess I could have no idea what I'm talking about as well...
No, you're on the right track. Most semis are open bolt while almost all pumps are closed bolt. Some people will tell you that closed bolt is inherently more accurate, but there's no evidence to support that. WARPIG even did a test about open- vs. closed-bolt (http://warpig.com/paintball/technical/paintguns/balistic/closedopen.shtml) and found no difference in accuracy.

Still, all markers will have kick, and you can't "cancel it out." The hammer getting pushed around a 'cocker, the bolt popping forward in a 'mag - it all goes back and forth, but it's not like it's cancelled somehow because they make the equal forward and backward motions. That back-and-forth motion is responsible for some of the "kick" markers have when you fire. Anything moving around will make the marker feel like it's trying to move in your hands, and it's not really possible to cancel it all out. Unless you have a fully air-powered marker like the Nova... Still get some kick from the ball leaving the barrel, though.

[Duzzy]

Well, I guess I'm not a complete idiot.

:cheers:

[PumpPlayer]

Define accuracy.

Being able to put the ball on what you are aiming at with the first shot would be my deffinition. There are a number of things that lead into that ability including the stability of your shooting platform, how you aim, IF you aim and familiarity with the marker among other things.

Most people need to use two hands to cock and fire a pump. Most people are inclined to simply leave both hands on the marker. That right there adds "accuracy".
Without the advantage of firepower, you are more inclined to make your shots count. You are more likely to aim and thus, more likely to hit.

With a good barrel, good paint, a steady platform and a touch of patience, any marker can be "accurate".


A big reason for me why I'm more accurate with a pump (esp. stock class) than a semi- is because I don't have to worry about a hopper sticking out. I can adapt to a shooting stance that is more comfortable without having to worry so much about creating a small profile. A more comfortable shooting position just adds a tremendous ammount of accuracy.

[Aslan]

I used to think pumps were more accurate...but it really is about taking your time to shoot.

Pumps are fun...I disagree with the people that go on and on about how they play pump and can light the world on fire against a team of semis, blah, blah, blah... I actually think playing pump does put you at a disadvantage...but I don't mind that.

I played pump a couple weekends ago. Got two kills in two games. Gogged a guy on a snap shot...then pegged a guy in the head in the other game.

Nice thing about pumps is you don't tend to bonus ball anybody...unless you really, really try :nono: