Emag and speedball

[RavishingEddie]

Well, since me and my friends got into paintball a year ago, we started buying markers They all have cockers with Eblades and are planning to get egos or Proto Matrix. I on the other hand just started building my Emag and am almost done with it. When I grab the Emag or any mag for that matter I feel a special bond that I never felt before with another gun. The small, simplistic but yet durable and stylishness turns me on. :rolleyes: My question is simply how do Emags stand up against these extreme fast, light and weak material guns in speedball?? I really don't feel anything for those other guns, will I have to be forced to buy one? :confused:

[cowboy_00]

If you build it right, (which isnt that hard in a mag) you can make a marker that will outstrip anything those markers can do. I've used my Classic Mag in a few games against PM6 DM6 Egos. and i can still whoop *** (on occasion)
With an Emag you can hit 20+ bps easily and that is on par with the best markers and hoppers out there.

if your a good Player, it shouldn't matter what marker you have (as said in the flame thread earlier), but non the less a tricked out Emag can definately hold its own.

[Maggot6]

I half agree with the guy above. You likely wont hit +20 bps on a 3.2 software emag, with a regular tank..However, you should be able to shoot fast enough that the 15.4 bps they're shooting (or however your field rules permit ramping etc) that you wont be outgunned.


if your a good Player, it shouldn't matter what marker you have (as said in the flame thread earlier), but non the less a tricked out Emag can definately hold its own.

[fire1811]

you will be fine. I still play with a mech mag in big touraments sometimes.

[Teamslayer76]

If your not aware, the Emag/RTMag are likely the fastest guns on your field. Search Zak Vetter or Vetter tech here. Also like said above the Emag can keep up with the best. Don't forget we may have aftermarket boards and software on the way that allow for ramping/cheater modes. :headbang:

[Lohman446]

I sold my Proto Matrix and my Minion did nto come in until Monday. Sunday it left me playing with what I consider the ultimate back up marker, my fully mechanical stainless steel mag, centerfeed stainless body, RT valve, stainless boomstick.

I tend to practice at the highest level at my field and took this out without any question. I actually played a 4 on 1 down to a bunker move that would have been a refs call (a term we use at my field to admit that there is no way either player knows who shot first).

Unless you play back it is highly unlikely that a massive rate of fire is going to help you that much, though it covers a lack of skill often enough :).

[tyrion2323]

The small, simplistic but yet durable and stylishness turns me on. :rolleyes: My question is simply how do Emags stand up against these extreme fast, light and weak material guns in speedball?? I really don't feel anything for those other guns, will I have to be forced to buy one? :confused:

A few points of interest, and then an honest answer to your question.

- I'm not sure why you're criticizing the materials that other guns are made of. Depending on the model, your emag is either made of all aluminum or a combination of aluminum and stainless steel. Those other "weak material guns" that you mentioned are made out of the highest quality aluminum possible. Egos and Matrices are beautiful, wonderful markers, and just because they're light and small doesn't mean they're going to break anytime soon.

- Nobody can 'force' you to buy a new gun or piece of equipment. My guess is that, since you're still fairly new, you'll go through several markers trying to find the best one for you. Equipment change, despite some beliefs on this forum, are not only about peer pressure and hype. Guns HAVE gotten better since the Emag. In every sense. It's not as if Emags are the best guns out there, and everyone else is struggling to catch up. Modern paintball technology has created a host of superguns which are almost all awesome in their own right.

- If you don't feel anything for these other guns, that's fine. Nobody says you should. But be respectful of others and their bonds to their guns, because in the end, everybody wants to end up with the gun that works best for them and fits their personality. For some it's an Ego, a Shocker, a Freestyle, or an EMag.

Now for speedball and your emag

- I don't see why you would have any problems with your emag while playing paintball. They certainly are high-quality, reliable markers. While they are fast, they are NOT the fastest on the field. I'm unsure why Cowboy and Teamslayer said that, unless they are referring to Zach Vetter's videos in which he uses an overpressurized valve to shoot 32 balls per second. Of course, in reality, you won't be able to bring a SCUBA tank onto the field, and, of course, sweetspotting would be considered cheating.

- The current 3.2 EMag software is nice software, and you shouldn't have any problem shooting fast with it, although don't get your hopes up for hitting 20bps "easily". 3.2 software is, in paintball terms, relatively old software, and isn't going to give you the other "software advantages" of more modern boards. That being said, it should be more than enough to sustain you in speedball.

- I'd just like to break down, for a moment, any myths that seem to be affecting people's views of non-mag markers. Just as in any community or forum, there are some views that are circulating which aren't necessarily true. Here on AO, it's the idea that Mags are the ultimate gun in every way. Most people here don't believe that, but some do. I have had several mags, and have enjoyed them, but I certainly haven't fooled myself that they are "the best" for speedball:

speed : EMags use 3.2 AGD software, and are not privy to many of the 'modes' that other guns have nowadays. Even adjustments for triggers and semi-auto allow gusn equipped with these boards to fire faster for the user. Secondly, trigger technology (bearing triggers) hae also made the trigger action more smooth and quick.
weight : Obviously, EMags are not the lightest guns out there. Almost all of the 2004, 2005 & 2006 guns are lighter. Much of this has to do with the battery pack, but ESPECIALLY of you're using a stainless steel body. This doesn't necessarily mean that the other guns are made out of weak materials. Most are made from top grade materials. Remember, it doesn't have to be able to survive being run over by a car, hit by a grenade or submerged in a pot of boiling water to qualify as a 'tough' marker, since those are not realistic scenarios for most speedballers.
efficiency : People ask, 'why do we need efficiency? don't we have all-day-air?" Yes, we do have all-day-air; however, in modern speedball, you can often shoot 500-800 balls in a game. Depending on the size tank you have, some markers might not be able to sustain that. Mags don't operate unders a certain pressure (600-800psi) which means that in a 3000psi fill, you're really only getting 2200 psi for a fill. Just something to consider.
anti-chop modern guns come with powerful break-beam antichop systems, which help improve firing speed and reduce chops. Sure, EMags have Level10 and some even have InfraRed ACE; however, IR is not effective on certain paint colors, and Level10 is a reactive anti-chop system, meaning that the gun has to go through the act of firing before it can 'misfire'. This dumps air, and can lead to missed shots. Luckily, with most hoppers, this isn't really a problem.

[FSU_Paintball]

I disagree with one of the first replies which stated that an E-mag will be better than those guns. Definitely not.

Here's the way I see it. E-Mags are just fine when set up correctly (I think ULE parts - especially a vert feed body, upgraded board and lightened/adjusted trigger goes a long way). They are on par with a nice E-cocker.

They are NOT quite as nice as something like an Ego or Proto. But for all intents and purposes, if you like the E-mag, stick with it until you don't want to any more. It'll hang with any upper-end gun good enough, no question - provided you set your Emag up well.

[BigEvil]

Here is a quick video clip I did of someone's gun that I just flashed the Xmod software on.

http://www.jayloo.com/videos/show_vid/2464.html

[RapidTransit]

Does the ball comeout and arc completly sideways? No it dosn't then its fine for speedball. My expierence is those guys on the field see your Mag and they all want to shoot it and give compliments etc. because they hardly see them. I remember going onto a field one day and the other team refused to play with me who were sponsered by Brand X (not going to say which company) because they thought E-Mags were too much/unfair against their shiny new electros.

[psychowarden]

As stated, it may take you a while to find a gun that fits your correctly. Luckily for me, the first High end gun I ever bought was the right one for me, and that would be my X-mag. Its plenty fast, I can crank out around 13 bps, and for semi only tournies, thats pretty much as good as its gonna get. So, try a few markers out at a field, and see what you like best.

[FromTheBack]

Tyrion has made some very good and true points about the E-mag. After shooting one for almost a year in tournaments, recball, and scenarios alike I can say I loved the gun. The only problem I had with it was the feel of the magnets in the trigger and I couldn't walk it as well as I can the DM6 that I got at the begining of the year. As he said the air efficiency isnt that great but I used a 45/3000 tank and was fine as long as I remembered to refill after almost every game. I could use it for two if I didnt shoot a ton but the efficiency definately plays a part.
With a ramping software, as bigevil showed (I am guessing?), you could easily keep up with anyone out there and I can say the levelX has worked great for me but it has made me come in for a moment when shooting to let the valve recharge.
I still loved mine and I really want another one day but the trigger feel and I just don't get along.

[cowboy_00]

Tyrion is completely right about the old 3.2 software for E/X mags...but now that Xmod is being thrown around and everyone is trying to get it, you can really customize your shooting options.

Idk if its allowed in speedball because i've never played a tourney or anything but Hyper hybrid mode with a semi light trigger (RR fireblade or Tunablade also make this a little easier) and you can hit decent (very decent) rates of fire. with a good amount of pressure into the gun (1200psi is the most usually a tank will do) the reactive trigger bounces enough to make a slower gun really pick up the pace, and the Lvl10 + ACE system eliminates a lot of ball breakage.

Im sorry if i sound like a spokesperson from AGD but I absolutely love their products and havent found fault so far as ive been playing with it. I know they may not be the best in the Universe (as that is whatever is in your hand that you like) but for me, I will not switch markers.

[hipster]

I just use my e-mag on the speed ball field very often , my board is flashed and in psp mode it more than keeps up with any ego or matrix



as far as the trigger magnets go take both out of the frame put an o ring in the hole the add one mag back the trigger becomes verrrrrrry walkable , adding a tuna blade makes it even better

[Lohman446]

I just use my e-mag on the speed ball field very often , my board is flashed and in psp mode it more than keeps up with any ego or matrix

Whats the more in more than keeps up?

[BigEvil]

Whats the more in more than keeps up?


See my post a few above with the Xmod clip in it.

[Lohman446]

See my post a few above with the Xmod clip in it.

Gonna have to clue me in, no video capability at the shop :). Matrixes and EGOs are both capable of shooting as fast as a loader feeds, I'm wondering what more a mag can do.

[BigEvil]

Gonna have to clue me in, no video capability at the shop :). Matrixes and EGOs are both capable of shooting as fast as a loader feeds, I'm wondering what more a mag can do.

Its just a short vid of Sean33's Xmag that I put the Xmod on. Its shooting on Full (auto) with the ROF set at 20.

I played this weekend with my ROF at 20 with nxl ramping. It was wicked fast and would appear to anyone looking, that it was keeping up with just about anything. (Not exceeding, but holding its own). I have a Halo with the Victory board on its highest setting and the gun kept up with it just fine. My Eyeless E-tac did as well, but I wouldnt fire long strings at 20bps cus quite frankly I know I would run into chopping issues.

Even if I could squeeze 23 or more bps out of my mags, I dont think I would. 20 was way too much IMO. I did play more with it at 17 and it seemed more than fast enough. Then again, I dont play tournies, so I cant speak for people who do.

Even some of my other guns (Angels) that were predatored I kept on 20 or below on the feild and just used the higher settings for showing off.

I think that this debate would be more easily settled if there was a simple way to install break beams in emags. No serious speedballer is going to buy a blind marker.

[Chaos_Theory!]

I think that this debate would be more easily settled if there was a simple way to install break beams in emags. No serious speedballer is going to buy a blind marker.

That along with more modes pretty much nails it.

[Recon by Fire]

Forget the "serious speedballer" your Emag will work great for playing speedball. The "serious" guys pretty much have their heads up you know where for the most part anyway IMHO. Don't concern yourself with them.

[Rudz]

my 12v warped emag with a cheetah boarded halo can keep up with anything its met so far...and im getting a new tank so i can adjust the output psi higher...now if there were an eye option we would be set..but its still fun when peoples jaws hit the groud at the emags newfound glorious speeds..go xmod...

[athomas]

I've used my emag in tounaments for years. It can keep up to any player. If players are using artificial enhancers, then we have that available as well. Again, we can keep up with our emags. When it comes to maintenance, thats where the emag really shines. I don't think there is a marker on the market that is as easy to maintain. In tournament play, reliability is very important. You have to know that your gun is going to be there at the start of the game and at the end of the game. Emags do provide that.

I'm not knocking other guns. I do have a Predator Angel and an Intimidator, just because. I never feel quite as secure with either gun as I do with the emag.

[etjoyride]

^^^

NOt trying to start anytihng here, but as far as maintitence(sp?) goes vikings could give emags a run for their money.

[REDRT]

My take on the Emag is that it is great. Let as take for example your basic Emag sold right now on AGDs online store. ULE body, ULE lowers and light X valve. The over all weight is pretty light. About 2.7lbs to be exact minus barrel. For example a PM6 with ul frame and rail mounted asa weighs in at 2.4lbs minus barrel. Emag is in the ball park. To say it is heavy means you just don't know what your talking about. It has mech mode, hybrid mode and E modes. No other brand of markers gives you that. Some people hate the battery. Yet they still have an LPR or a gas through hanging down where the emags battery is on their markers. Nice to have something to grip. Don't like it take it off and run mechanical mode. Shaves off about 12oz for all you weight mongers. The valve is fast. no matter if you run the stock Emag valve or the lighter x valve its recharge rate with out shoot down is second to non. The valve is capable of so much more. Level 10 anti chop bolt. When fine tuned it will all but eliminate chops, when they are tuned. Many of times I have found people just didn't tune them 100% of their potential. Loads of custom parts, suppliers, AGD, AO make it one of the most customizable markers to date and friendly knowledgeable people backing you up along the way.
Now the bad. Everything has a bad. Emags are not cheap. Depending on just how far you want to go money is a draw back for some. Emags software is currently 3.2 AGD supported. It is fine for semi auto, but if you want ramping modes and so forth you have a few options to explore. Shaving off even more weight can be a costly venture depending on how far you are willing to go. Break beam eyes that have become so popular. My board supports them, but I feel they're not needed. Some differ with my opinion. More money to do them. By the time everything is said and done one could have a great deal of money invested in a total build up. That is probably why many shoot other markers that are cheaper from the get go with more modern options stock. I myself truely love the emag. It is my primary marker. I have spent alot of money building it to the point it is now and still more to come.
Conclusion. IMHO the emag is still a very fine marker even in stock form. Even for tournament level speedball. No real need to up grade much of anything playing NPPL rules. However tournaments playing PSP rules it lacks some features making it little less desirable of a marker in stock form. I say,"if you really like something stick with it". I may have twice as much in my Emag as others have in some other high end marker, but knowing I have some of the best customer support in the business, a marker that is reliable as old faithful and I know it like the back of my hand is almost priceless.

[Lohman446]

It has mech mode, hybrid mode and E modes. .

And is not legal to take on the field at say a NPPL event, even under the PSP rules having the selector switch becomes an issue.

[Vex]

And is not legal to take on the field at say a NPPL event, even under the PSP rules having the selector switch becomes an issue.
I don't understand this rule. Why is it illegal? Just because the battery dies, and you can switch it to mech mode, this is some sort of unfair advantage...?

[shades]

And is not legal to take on the field at say a NPPL event, even under the PSP rules having the selector switch becomes an issue.
I understand your point But... Tell me again WHY ramping is Legal in tourney play. Hybride mode should be then a non issue. dont you think? The rules should stay one pull, one shot.

Heres an idea i have never seen. a tourney lock out selector switch. mill off the nubbin (tenon) on the selector switch and replace it with a small slot for a small screw driver. small enough that it would be difficult to switch with a fingernail. a torex or haex maybe.

[Lohman446]

I understand your point But... Tell me agian WHY ramping is Legal in tourney play. Hybride mode should be then a non issue. dont you think?

Should be... I've considered the argument, hybrid is controllable, but not able to be capped. Remember NPPL is strict one shot one pull and PSP demands a 15BPS cap. You are not going to get either with hybrid mode available.

Phazeshifter, it is illegal because it allows you to get more than one shot per pull. You can effectively change settings while on the field and enter into the mech / electro hybrid mode.

[shades]

Phazeshifter, it is illegal because it allows you to get more than one shot per pull. You can effectively change settings while on the field and enter into the mech / electro hybrid mode.
But Ramping is also more than one shot per pull. Oh sure pull the trigger at six balls per sec
for more than a second then you go full auto at 15 balls per sec. this does not add up to one pull per shot.

[Lohman446]

But Ramping is also more than one shot per pull. Oh sure pull the trigger at six balls per sec
for more than a second then you go full auto at 15 balls per sec. this does not add up to one pull per shot.

NPPL = one shot one pull. No question that the hybrid mode does not comply.

PSP = Ramping allowed capped at 15BPS - no ability to cap.

It doesn't comply with either...

[REDRT]

And is not legal to take on the field at say a NPPL event, even under the PSP rules having the selector switch becomes an issue.
Ohh geez! Just pull the trigger rod then. I said NPPL rules not an NPPL event. I ment your adverage local tournament that alot of us play. Not everyone is the Great Lohman446 that knows all, plays all. :rolleyes: Most people outside the mag community don't even know it these features exist in the first place. It is nice to have options even if sometimes you can't have them. It is the times you can that they come in handy.

[Lohman446]

Ohh geez! Just pull the trigger rod then. I said NPPL rules not an NPPL event. I ment your adverage local tournament that alot of us play.

:D So, was I wrong to think when you said NPPL rules that you meant NPPL rules? Just curious :cheers:

I'm not trying to be a jerk, I like the E-mag for what it is, but I accept the limits of what it is as well. Mine had the trigger rods pulled. Though if I do recall one person on these ran into a jerk of a chrono ref who said the rod had to be there for the "manufacturer recommended chrono procedure". :p

[REDRT]

:D So, was I wrong to think when you said NPPL rules that you meant NPPL rules? Just curious :cheers:

I'm not trying to be a jerk, I like the E-mag for what it is, but I accept the limits of what it is as well. Mine had the trigger rods pulled. Though if I do recall one person on these ran into a jerk of a chrono ref who said the rod had to be there for the "manufacturer recommended chrono procedure". :p

You tend to be too critical! Local tournaments at least around here state NPPL rules or PSP rules. NPPL meaning semi auto only and PSP ramping to 15bps is allowed basicly what it amounts to. Maybe in a bigger venue like an accual NPPL/PSP event it may be an issue, but it normally isn't the case playing the local fields.

You do come off as a jerk most of the time. The Emag is a good marker. No matter what the venue it can be set up in a legal way not causing a stink with the officals.

[Lohman446]

Maybe I need to drink more of the AO kool-ade?

Seriously, I have not discredited the e-mag for what it is, nor have I fallen into the hype that its the greatest thing out there. It is what it is, and I think I have been reasonable in trying to point that out on both sides.

/You did say NPPL rules... I took it to mean NPPL rules. Thought that was reasonable...

[SkyBoySurfer]

I play in NPPL and PSP with my Emag in the Am/Pro lvl.
I have a shocker 05 for a backup, but it never gets used. My Emag has never failed me.

If you wanna fix your sticky trigger, just raise the single magnet all the way to the top of the rail, it will feel awsome, then from there just aject the side triger mag for the HES.

I talk to people who absolutly HATE mags, untill they fire mine.

Im useing 4.1 software, I shoot faster then almost any gun out there, and I never ever get any **** from the refs at the turnys, the trigger will survive a drop test, but I have mine so light you cant tell when the DB hits in or if you are just pulling that much. in a single snap out of .5 secs I can shoot 12 balls. Mosty others barly make 7-10.

<3 the Emag

[hitech]

PSP = Ramping allowed capped at 15BPS - no ability to cap.


If you have your ROF set at the capped level then hybrid will also be capped. I don't understand why you think it would not be...

[Lohman446]

If you have your ROF set at the capped level then hybrid will also be capped. I don't understand why you think it would not be...

Never considered the ROF cap. Won't that only limit the cycles of the solenoid though and not take any consideration into the shots that are pulled manually by the rod?

[hitech]

Never considered the ROF cap. Won't that only limit the cycles of the solenoid though and not take any consideration into the shots that are pulled manually by the rod?

Yes, but when shooting in hybrid mode you are firing the marker electronicly and letting the trigger rod bounce your finger back. You don't fire mechanically.

[Lohman446]

Yes, but when shooting in hybrid mode you are firing the marker electronicly and letting the trigger rod bounce your finger back. You don't fire mechanically.


Really, mine always seemed to get two pulls as I pulled without letting any trigger return, I always assumed it was one from the electronics and one from the rod.

[hitech]

Really, mine always seemed to get two pulls as I pulled without letting any trigger return, I always assumed it was one from the electronics and one from the rod.

Yes it is. However that is not how hybrid mode is typically used to shoot fast. I don't know how fast one could shoot that way.

[Lohman446]

Yes it is. However that is not how hybrid mode is typically used to shoot fast. I don't know how fast one could shoot that way.

I see what you are saying, but you would have a hard time making it comply to the rules. Pretty hard to have something and convince a ref you just won't use it.

I remember chronoing two e-mags at PSP a few years ago. The ref looked at the two we carried up and told us he could make any e-mag bounce. Mine the trigger rod was pulled in and he couldn't get it, my teammates had a full length trigger pull (really really long) and no battery, couldn't get it. He just laughed about it then.

[REDRT]

Maybe I need to drink more of the AO kool-ade?



Maybe you need to get lost? :clap: That would be the day. :rolleyes: The Emag is a good gun. Spend the money building it, making it even better. It can be just as good as any other marker. Maybe even better in some ways? I know in your opinion it could never be an equal to whatever it is you use on a daily bases. Fine, be a downer. You've probably done it first and done it better than anyone here. Your some kind of PB god! Who appointed you the say all, end all guy?
:wow: Sorry for blowing up on you, but sometime I get annoyed with peoples notions of the emag not being able to be MUCH better. It is like taking a muscle car and restomoding it with modern day equipment. A balance of old and new making it perform with the best of them. For the extreme overhaul it takes money no doubt, but it is possable. Not that isn't still a viable marker in the speedball arena.

[RavishingEddie]

Maybe you need to get lost? :clap: That would be the day. :rolleyes: The Emag is a good gun. Spend the money building it, making it even better. It can be just as good as any other marker. Maybe even better in some ways? I know in your opinion it could never be an equal to whatever it is you use on a daily bases. Fine, be a downer. You've probably done it first and done it better than anyone here. Your some kind of PB god! Who appointed you the say all, end all guy?
:wow: Sorry for blowing up on you, but sometime I get annoyed with peoples notions of the emag not being able to be MUCH better. It is like taking a muscle car and restomoding it with modern day equipment. A balance of old and new making it perform with the best of them. For the extreme overhaul it takes money no doubt, but it is possable. Not that isn't still a viable marker in the speedball arena.


Thanks for all the posts guys I just finished reading them all. and REDRT, you are right about the muscle car thing with modern equipment. I first started off by, buying 2 emags and switching out the parts that I wanted then sold the emag I didn't need. I then anodized the rest of the parts. I am waiting for the fireblade trigger which still hasn't arrived(5 days) :( I like the way the Emag feels and looks and it is 3/4 done. I just have to finish installing the Xmod. My friends tell me I'm crazy and why I didn't just buy a new gun with all the money I have spent and they even talk about how my gun will suck when finished, but I don't listen to them. I just tell them that a gun is like sex. They like to just get it done fast, while I prefer to juicer up and get done right the first time. :rolleyes:

They haven't seen my gun since I have kept it a secret, but when I am finished I promise that AO will see it first.

[warpspyder]

I see what you are saying, but you would have a hard time making it comply to the rules. Pretty hard to have something and convince a ref you just won't use it.

I remember chronoing two e-mags at PSP a few years ago. The ref looked at the two we carried up and told us he could make any e-mag bounce. Mine the trigger rod was pulled in and he couldn't get it, my teammates had a full length trigger pull (really really long) and no battery, couldn't get it. He just laughed about it then.

When you're bouncing it in hybrid mode you're not actually firing the gun mechnaically. The trigger rod is bouncing the trigger back to the set position, then the pressure you have on your finger is bringing it back passed the HES sensor, thus firing the marker and repeating the process. It is very unlikely if you're using bounce in hybrid mode you're pulling hard enough to cycle the marker mechanically.

[MoeMag]

I was catching up and saw this...



as far as the trigger magnets go take both out of the frame put an o ring in the hole the add one mag back the trigger becomes verrrrrrry walkable


WOW! Just did that... OMG! Never knew that, THANKS.
:cheers:

Yeah, e-mag can still hold its own in speedball!

[Lohman446]

Maybe you need to get lost? :clap: That would be the day. :rolleyes: The Emag is a good gun. Spend the money building it, making it even better. It can be just as good as any other marker. Maybe even better in some ways? I know in your opinion it could never be an equal to whatever it is you use on a daily bases. Fine, be a downer. You've probably done it first and done it better than anyone here. Your some kind of PB god! Who appointed you the say all, end all guy?
:wow: Sorry for blowing up on you, but sometime I get annoyed with peoples notions of the emag not being able to be MUCH better. It is like taking a muscle car and restomoding it with modern day equipment. A balance of old and new making it perform with the best of them. For the extreme overhaul it takes money no doubt, but it is possable. Not that isn't still a viable marker in the speedball arena.

Bite me...

Simple, really simple. I have never not acknowledged the E-mag as a great marker, but it does have its limitations. I'm sorry that I'm not bowing down as it being the greatest marker on earth and so MUCH better than everything else out there? You said it could be so MUCH BETTER than everything else. I'm sorry, how is it better?

I'm sorry that you were not able to go into your long winded rant without someone pointing out some of the things you stated as fact were simply not true. AO has never been about gathering around in a circle complimenting each other and telling each other how right we are despite being wrong. I'm sorry that I ask questions to understand others views rather than just stating my own and defending it to an extreme. Actually, no I'm not.

Even if you take that muscle car and add all the performance options to it, gain 500 horsepower, it doesn't compare to say the ZO6 Corvette which will match or exceed it in performance, get better fuel efficiency, and offer more amenities - very very poor example. Isn't even more interesting that GM has made the changes to compete with the best out there rather than just producing a '72 427 Six pack Corvette (which up through the C5 platform had a better quarter mile time than even the ZR1).

As to the rest of your attitude towards me. I'm arrogant enough to really not care what you think. :D Funny, Hitech and I can have discussions wtihout ever making it a personal attack, or trolling for a response. Funny we both seem to be able to comprehend the rules.

I think someones upset because they make blanket statements, are questioned on them, and can't get over themselves long enough to consider the possibility there are points of view that may differ from theres. Just my opinion...

[Lohman446]

When you're bouncing it in hybrid mode you're not actually firing the gun mechnaically. The trigger rod is bouncing the trigger back to the set position, then the pressure you have on your finger is bringing it back passed the HES sensor, thus firing the marker and repeating the process. It is very unlikely if you're using bounce in hybrid mode you're pulling hard enough to cycle the marker mechanically.

Never played in hybrid mode actually, played with it off field and always got the second shot (though they were on long deliberate trigger pulls). I see what your saying though, interesting, had never considered it as being legal so I hadn't actually considered its use. It makes the why isn't it legal argument more interesting, though your still going to have a hard time getting past the chrono ref who does get two shots in a single long deliberate pull. Maybe trigger stops to make it not actually fire with the rod?

[RapidTransit]

Even if you take that muscle car and add all the performance options to it, gain 500 horsepower, it doesn't compare to say the ZO6 Corvette which will match or exceed it in performance, get better fuel efficiency, and offer more amenities - very very poor example. Isn't even more interesting that GM has made the changes to compete with the best out there rather than just producing a '72 427 Six pack Corvette (which up through the C5 platform had a better quarter mile time than even the ZR1).
What the hell are you talking about? First off I've never seen a new stock Vette pull 10's in the 1/4, I'n the FAST Series a ZL1 Clone running Bias Ply tires hit the 10's. A 1972 Vette came with Tri-Power? Also don't forget in 1978 and 1979 a Truck could beat a Vette do a little search for the Little Red Express. You'll also find that a stock built 426 Hemi will produce well over 600HP. Your argument is useless. Simply put old technology dosn't always mean better case in point Analog Cell Phones, Vacuum tube Amps, Audio Records, and Film for Video and Stills. Automags have no problem outpreforming a high end electro, shockers use a similar valve design so AGD is deffinitely doing something right :hail:

[Lohman446]

What the hell are you talking about? First off I've never seen a new stock Vette pull 10's in the 1/4, I'n the FAST Series a ZL1 Clone running Bias Ply tires hit the 10's. A 1972 Vette came with Tri-Power? Also don't forget in 1978 and 1979 a Truck could beat a Vette do a little search for the Little Red Express. You'll also find that a stock built 426 Hemi will produce well over 600HP. Your argument is useless. Simply put old technology dosn't always mean better case in point Analog Cell Phones, Vacuum tube Amps, Audio Records, and Film for Video and Stills. Automags have no problem outpreforming a high end electro, shockers use a similar valve design so AGD is deffinitely doing something right :hail:

I was actually arging that the standard theory was that old technology doesn't normally mean better. Yes, GM did produce there own six pack (they were arranged in a triangle though) and used it in the 427 '72 Corvette. And for the arguments sake I was considering factory production to factory production without full consideration of aftermarket possibilities. There are not a lot of highly impressive 1/4 mile stock times until very recently. I never mentioned any of the Corvettes from 75 to 82 for a reason :). They were not impressive in comparison The point is, even though the 72 was as good as it was, they made changes, bit by bit, got better in other areas, now the 72 is obsolete. Even before the surpassed 1.4 mile times they had improved efficiency, handling, comforts, etc. Vettes are not always the best, it was an easy example I had off the top of my mind. Wht exactly is "stock built"? As it came from the factory? Or built? Is that stock, or built?

I may be off a year, it might have been the 71 that was the better of them, 72 might have been the first year of detuning, not sure actually

As to the similiarities between a Shocker and mag in the way it functions... Aside from using air and being blow forward theres not a lot.

Outperforming - this is going past being competetive to being better, in performance. how?

[RapidTransit]

When I say out perform I mean out perform the standard rules and the capped limits etc. 72 Was the detuned year even though I think Mopar released some 6 Packs supposudly. Exception of the superduty firebirds/trans ams the muscle car era ended for the 71 model year, 70 for Chevy.

[Lohman446]

When I say out perform I mean out perform the standard rules and the capped limits etc. 72 Was the detuned year even though I think Mopar released some 6 Packs supposudly. Exception of the superduty firebirds/trans ams the muscle car era ended for the 71 model year, 70 for Chevy.

With a few notable exceptions anything made since sometime in the 70s is going to outperform the 70MPH road limit :D . I was off a year (maybe two) on the 427, I got to wondering on that after I had typed it out. I have nothing against the e-mag, unless your pushing the very top edge of performance of your loader it will work well for nearly everything you could want.

[hitech]

There are not a lot of highly impressive 1/4 mile stock times until very recently.

Ever seen a cyclone or a dodge dart... ;)

[Lohman446]

Ever seen a cyclone or a dodge dart... ;)


Twin turbos and Chevy engines, always been an interesting combo. I recall the Calloway Corvettes had a nasty habit of pulling the cylinder heads from the blocks under heavy load :)

[SpecialBlend2786]

Ever seen a cyclone or a dodge dart... ;)


were cyclones those beefily awesome/fast GMC pickups :confused:

[hitech]

were cyclones those beefily awesome/fast GMC pickups :confused:

Yes. They were like that stock (from the factory, sold at normal dealerships). And they are not what I would call recent, but your mileage may vary. ;)

They were sometimes referred to as a vette with a sundeck...

BTW, A buddy of mine has one. :headbang:

:cheers:

[RRfireblade]

Not sure about the Emag but I know you can't use a Cyclone in Speedball.

[Lohman446]

Not sure about the Emag but I know you can't use a Cyclone in Speedball.

I once found my skid steer in the middle of a woodsball game. I was less than happy about it :). Yes, I was driving, yes I was working on the field.

[hitech]

Not sure about the Emag but I know you can't use a Cyclone in Speedball.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[RavishingEddie]

REDTR is cool :cool:

Anyway, I was wondering what I should get? A fireblade trigger or a Tunablade trigger for my emag. I just got to the trigger part and need some help on this.

[REDRT]

REDTR is cool :cool:

Anyway, I was wondering what I should get? A fireblade trigger or a Tunablade trigger for my emag. I just got to the trigger part and need some help on this.

Thanks for your vote.


I really liked the blade style of the fireblade, but the tunablade has more positives in it's favor. The roller bearing is smooth and no side to side play like the stocker. So I'm using the tunablade currently myself.

[JoshK]

A few points of interest, and then an honest answer to your question.

- I'm not sure why you're criticizing the materials that other guns are made of. Depending on the model, your emag is either made of all aluminum or a combination of aluminum and stainless steel. Those other "weak material guns" that you mentioned are made out of the highest quality aluminum possible. Egos and Matrices are beautiful, wonderful markers, and just because they're light and small doesn't mean they're going to break anytime soon.

- Nobody can 'force' you to buy a new gun or piece of equipment. My guess is that, since you're still fairly new, you'll go through several markers trying to find the best one for you. Equipment change, despite some beliefs on this forum, are not only about peer pressure and hype. Guns HAVE gotten better since the Emag. In every sense. It's not as if Emags are the best guns out there, and everyone else is struggling to catch up. Modern paintball technology has created a host of superguns which are almost all awesome in their own right.

- If you don't feel anything for these other guns, that's fine. Nobody says you should. But be respectful of others and their bonds to their guns, because in the end, everybody wants to end up with the gun that works best for them and fits their personality. For some it's an Ego, a Shocker, a Freestyle, or an EMag.

Now for speedball and your emag

- I don't see why you would have any problems with your emag while playing paintball. They certainly are high-quality, reliable markers. While they are fast, they are NOT the fastest on the field. I'm unsure why Cowboy and Teamslayer said that, unless they are referring to Zach Vetter's videos in which he uses an overpressurized valve to shoot 32 balls per second. Of course, in reality, you won't be able to bring a SCUBA tank onto the field, and, of course, sweetspotting would be considered cheating.

- The current 3.2 EMag software is nice software, and you shouldn't have any problem shooting fast with it, although don't get your hopes up for hitting 20bps "easily". 3.2 software is, in paintball terms, relatively old software, and isn't going to give you the other "software advantages" of more modern boards. That being said, it should be more than enough to sustain you in speedball.

- I'd just like to break down, for a moment, any myths that seem to be affecting people's views of non-mag markers. Just as in any community or forum, there are some views that are circulating which aren't necessarily true. Here on AO, it's the idea that Mags are the ultimate gun in every way. Most people here don't believe that, but some do. I have had several mags, and have enjoyed them, but I certainly haven't fooled myself that they are "the best" for speedball:

speed : EMags use 3.2 AGD software, and are not privy to many of the 'modes' that other guns have nowadays. Even adjustments for triggers and semi-auto allow gusn equipped with these boards to fire faster for the user. Secondly, trigger technology (bearing triggers) hae also made the trigger action more smooth and quick.
weight : Obviously, EMags are not the lightest guns out there. Almost all of the 2004, 2005 & 2006 guns are lighter. Much of this has to do with the battery pack, but ESPECIALLY of you're using a stainless steel body. This doesn't necessarily mean that the other guns are made out of weak materials. Most are made from top grade materials. Remember, it doesn't have to be able to survive being run over by a car, hit by a grenade or submerged in a pot of boiling water to qualify as a 'tough' marker, since those are not realistic scenarios for most speedballers.
efficiency : People ask, 'why do we need efficiency? don't we have all-day-air?" Yes, we do have all-day-air; however, in modern speedball, you can often shoot 500-800 balls in a game. Depending on the size tank you have, some markers might not be able to sustain that. Mags don't operate unders a certain pressure (600-800psi) which means that in a 3000psi fill, you're really only getting 2200 psi for a fill. Just something to consider.
anti-chop modern guns come with powerful break-beam antichop systems, which help improve firing speed and reduce chops. Sure, EMags have Level10 and some even have InfraRed ACE; however, IR is not effective on certain paint colors, and Level10 is a reactive anti-chop system, meaning that the gun has to go through the act of firing before it can 'misfire'. This dumps air, and can lead to missed shots. Luckily, with most hoppers, this isn't really a problem.


Tyrion. If you don't already, you should seriously consider writing magazine articles. haha Maybe something along the lines of "Robbie Newbie". Good job.

[RapidTransit]

Ever seen a cyclone or a dodge dart... ;)
Ah the Ol' 68 Dart and Barracuda S/S... Chrysler actually put out a warning letter, dangerous on the road and in general just dangerous. :rofl:

[tyrion2323]

Tyrion. If you don't already, you should seriously consider writing magazine articles. haha Maybe something along the lines of "Robbie Newbie". Good job.

Wow - old post resurrection on my part, to be sure.

But thanks, dude!

/sorry for resurrection :eek:

[flyingpootang]

Pred DIY board