Around $250 to spend... what gun

[Corbet]

Basically I sold off my mag and I'm looking for a $200 range electro to play. I was looking at the 2k4 Bushmasters (Regular and BKO), Ion, and Impulse. I'd rather not get a smart parts, mainly because I hate what they did to the industry, but I know they are good guns for the price. Whats the difference between the BKO and regular bushmaster? Any other guns I should take a look at?

I wanna order this ASAP so I can play in 2 weeks. Also, while we're at it, whats the best mask out there right now? Back in my day it was Flex 7 ize.

[Pickle]

Basically I sold off my mag and I'm looking for a $200 range electro to play. I was looking at the 2k4 Bushmasters (Regular and BKO), Ion, and Impulse. I'd rather not get a smart parts, mainly because I hate what they did to the industry, but I know they are good guns for the price. Whats the difference between the BKO and regular bushmaster? Any other guns I should take a look at?

I wanna order this ASAP so I can play in 2 weeks. Also, while we're at it, whats the best mask out there right now? Back in my day it was Flex 7 ize.

Short answer is Ion and profiler

[master_alexander]

pickle is right.

i have had bko's and b2k's. in my opinion, the B2k was the best ICD i have shot before 04. and yet it i still one of the nicer guns i have shot.

besides that, an ion. and you can call it a tupperware death cannon. i love that.

[Corbet]

My thing is if I get an ion I'd want a new trigger (+40.00), QEV (+20.00), and a new Clamping Feedneck (+35.00). Once I spend that much I could have gotten a Bushmaster ProMaster for 80.00 more.

[master_alexander]

are you only buying new?

[Corbet]

are you only buying new?

Yes, I got burned last time I bought used. I had to replace a ton of parts.

[master_alexander]

ah i see... well if you do decide you want to buy used, see if you can do 3rd party or something, on PBN through a mod. otherwise i have been looking at prices of parts and stuff...

ion-275
--ion-190
--quv-20
--trigger-30
--feedneck-35
stock promaster-369
nerve-475
dark 06 ego- 1,695

prices from www.pbgear.com

id go with the ion. they are underrated in my opinion... but thats me and only 2 years of expierence. still, i think that it is enough to form an educated opinion. when it comes down to it, you work hard for your money and should be happy with what you get.

[Pacifist_Farmer]

Well, I've got 9 years of experience and master_alexander is 100% correct, I love my Ion. The upgrades he mentioned help, but you would likely be fine with just the qev and feedneck.

[buzzboy]

I would say probably a B2K pds. I had a BKO(very close) and it performed really well.

If you want to spend a little more(well, you had it on your list) get a vision impulse. I love those things so much. One of my favorite guns to have played with(it was a strange).

[punkncat]

I would highly suggest buying used. Let someone else take the loss.

There are some great deals out there on used markers. I am sure you could find a DM3 or an older Timmy, or similar that someone is looking to unload. I just sold an 04 Speed for $225...no eyes but super fast and reliable.

If you insist on getting a new marker, in your price range there is really only the Ion. They are $200 new right now. Thats hard to beat for what they offer. But keep in mind down the road when it starts giving you trouble that it was ONLY $200. Cause it WILL give you trouble. SP didn't start at (near) $300 and drop to $200 for nothing. Those money grubbing jerkoffs wouldn't lower the price on anything they didn't have to.


Good luck in your quest.

[peewee]

:D My son has buzz's old BKO & it is rock solid. Between the B2k, bko & Ion its really hard for me to say "get this". I've owned two BKO's ( counting buzz's) & an ion, also played with several bushies. Never had any issues with any of them. For me the bko is easier to maintain if your ham fisted you can do bad things to your ion. The ion delivers more for the money overall with a little more maintenance. I'd recommend shooting both & see what feels right.

[Corbet]

:D My son has buzz's old BKO & it is rock solid. Between the B2k, bko & Ion its really hard for me to say "get this". I've owned two BKO's ( counting buzz's) & an ion, also played with several bushies. Never had any issues with any of them. For me the bko is easier to maintain if your ham fisted you can do bad things to your ion. The ion delivers more for the money overall with a little more maintenance. I'd recommend shooting both & see what feels right.

The thing with me now is getting an eye/PDS. An ION comes with one, the BKO and alot of the cheaper B2K's do not come with them.

[buzzboy]

BKO's are like 160 new and you can get eyes from pyropb for 90. I can't remember what B2K's are new with PDS. A BKO with PDS is pretty much a B2K PDS.

[deathstalker]

If you insist on getting a new marker, in your price range there is really only the Ion. They are $200 new right now. Thats hard to beat for what they offer. But keep in mind down the road when it starts giving you trouble that it was ONLY $200. Cause it WILL give you trouble. SP didn't start at (near) $300 and drop to $200 for nothing. Those money grubbing jerkoffs wouldn't lower the price on anything they didn't have to.

Oh, for crying... You started off with some good advice and forgot to close your mouth.

I am quite proud of my marker collection. The ONLY marker I own that has never given me a problem is... NONE! EVERY single marker I own has gone down at one time or another, for one reason or another, sometimes user stupidity, sometimes just a sliced o-ring or low battery. sometimes it happens at the start of a big game (thanks, MiniMag!), sometimes it happens at the chrono, sometimes it happens if I look at one the wrong way. Go to ANY owner's group forum and there is a tech section. It's there for a reason and it's not because the manufacturer put out a POS. I applaud AGD's policy about working on stock-only markers. It minimizes or eliminates many variables, including user error.

It's difficult to place blame on manufacturers when a marker goes down. I have also never had a problem I could not fix myself. I know how to disassemble, lube, and operate all my markers. I RTFM! I take care when replacing batteries. I always try to use the best paint I can. When you look at Smart Parts' target demographic, you have a lot of young players with unrealistic expectations of what their marker can do. Many of these players are also not patient enough to sit down and learn about their gear. They also do not have the income to spend money on quality paint. They're buying a budget-minded marker; they most likely purchase their paint the same way.

Here's the part I really don't get. Smart Parts cut the price by almost a third and you call them "money grubbing jerkoffs"? Sounds to me like a company is getting rid of inventory to replace it with something else. Kind of like when ICD slashed the prices of Bushies last year before they released the Promaster. I guess they're money-grubbing jerkoffs, too. :rolleyes: Hey, how much are Wraths now?

Getting back on topic, finding a new Bushy with PDS is near impossible now. You'll also be VERY tempted to replace the regulators and board, so consider that, too. I vote for the Ion. It's tough to find a better value on a BNIB marker.

[fire1811]

well said deathstalker.

I am about tired of all of you clowns thinking your mags never go down. I had or have owned damn near every version of the mag that has been avialible and every one has let me down before. NO matter what some of you thing there is no and never will be a gun that never goes down so stop trying to act like its yours.

[punkncat]

Oh, for crying... You started off with some good advice and forgot to close your mouth.

I am quite proud of my marker collection. The ONLY marker I own that has never given me a problem is... NONE! EVERY single marker I own has gone down at one time or another, for one reason or another, sometimes user stupidity, sometimes just a sliced o-ring or low battery. sometimes it happens at the start of a big game (thanks, MiniMag!), sometimes it happens at the chrono, sometimes it happens if I look at one the wrong way. Go to ANY owner's group forum and there is a tech section. It's there for a reason and it's not because the manufacturer put out a POS. I applaud AGD's policy about working on stock-only markers. It minimizes or eliminates many variables, including user error.

It's difficult to place blame on manufacturers when a marker goes down. I have also never had a problem I could not fix myself. I know how to disassemble, lube, and operate all my markers. I RTFM! I take care when replacing batteries. I always try to use the best paint I can. When you look at Smart Parts' target demographic, you have a lot of young players with unrealistic expectations of what their marker can do. Many of these players are also not patient enough to sit down and learn about their gear. They also do not have the income to spend money on quality paint. They're buying a budget-minded marker; they most likely purchase their paint the same way.

Here's the part I really don't get. Smart Parts cut the price by almost a third and you call them "money grubbing jerkoffs"? Sounds to me like a company is getting rid of inventory to replace it with something else. Kind of like when ICD slashed the prices of Bushies last year before they released the Promaster. I guess they're money-grubbing jerkoffs, too. Hey, how much are Wraths now?

Getting back on topic, finding a new Bushy with PDS is near impossible now. You'll also be VERY tempted to replace the regulators and board, so consider that, too. I vote for the Ion. It's tough to find a better value on a BNIB marker.


well said deathstalker.

I am about tired of all of you clowns thinking your mags never go down. I had or have owned damn near every version of the mag that has been avialible and every one has let me down before. NO matter what some of you thing there is no and never will be a gun that never goes down so stop trying to act like its yours.


Thanks guys for setting me straight. I am glad that you helped me see the light. I will never put down a low priced shoddy piece of equipment again. I will never make another comment about some company cutting a third off their retail for "no" reason.

I sure am glad you guys were here to put my feet back on the ground to the realization that everything breaks at the same frequency with the same problems regardless of quality or maintanance.

I am healed!!!

:rolleyes:

[thefool]

cut the flame war, everything productive has been said. Personally i'd do used from a reliable seller.

[Bahhumbug]

Just to throw off the curve, I'd say get a rainmaker. They're fun, easily customizable, loud as heck, and uncommon markers. If you get a rainmaker for $100 and send it to mad marty for his mods ($50) get a taloc'd chip ($35) and get a nice new barrel you've got a competitive unique marker for less than $250.

EDIT: If you do get one, make sure it works, there are a few bouncing around that don't work.

My $0.02
~Bahhumbug

[Confused+Paintball=Broke]

how about a tippmann custom pro E. There only $200 brand new and now come with ACT(Anti chop technology). Im thinkin about selling my mag and picking one up, and tippmann is a proved durable marker.

[ojhspyro89]

BKO's are like 160 new and you can get eyes from pyropb for 90. I can't remember what B2K's are new with PDS. A BKO with PDS is pretty much a B2K PDS.

Oh come on, you should know better. You can get eyes for $85 :rolleyes:


Id really suggest a b2k4 w/PDS. GREAT solid markers. I like them better than the ion thats for sure. The ions plastic, its solenoid is bare and doesnt even resemble a solenoid, everyeone has 3, and they are cheaply made.

Id go with the b2k4.

[deathstalker]

I will never make another comment about some company cutting a third off their retail for "no" reason.
It needs to be asked, but what was the reason you gave? I never even saw one. If I missed it, I'm happy to be corrected. For those of you who claim the Ion is shoddy or cheaply made, the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence. I wonder how you know so much about SP's manufacturing capabiliies and processes. Oh, and all the pther manucturer's too, just so we know SP's process is so different from everyone else's.

Once you do, you can read about my out-of-the-box B2K4 with a malfunctioning HPR. I'll tell you about the two lvl X kits I had: one bolt fit perfectly into my AutoSpirit, the other one didn't and would therefore do nothing but chuff. I'll tell you about a pump kit I bought that came with a pump arm that was too short. I'll tell you about the Flatline that had a mind of it's own when I bought and decided that without about 1000psi left, it needed to "take a leak". I'll tell you about the PTP 12V mod I bought for my Warp that is so finicky it's near unuseable. I'll tell you about NIB foregrips that have had oxidation on them. You can search other owner's groups and find people who truly have had problems with a BNIB product and it's not user error. Most manuals even have a -GASP!- troubleshooting section. Sometimes the problem is fixable; sometimes people have to return them.

And you know what else? I can come up with countless examples of products outside the paintball world that might not be made to the exacting standards we expect them to be. Uh, own a car?

[punkncat]

...


You know man...you are right. I have absolutely no reason to try and change your mind/ opinion on this subject. It is your opinion and you are entitled to it. If you feel that you can outprove your position with what amounts to testimonials and hearsay, I am pretty sure I feel the same way for my own opinions and observations.

Lets agree to disagree.

[68magOwner]

best bang for the buck is the ion, no way around it

[Arstron]

What about the new Select Fire Trilogy? I havnt tried it yet, but $269 for an electronic ramping autococker isnt to bad. I would rather have one of them then an ION, but thats just me.

http://www.actionvillage.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=IZCsvpf6ZJCsItO-Y7xsFp1cnmN0JJckzoI=?ProductID=fsbAqArbgcoAAAEIxth 97NTZ#

[deathstalker]

Lets agree to disagree.
:cheers:
But it's so hard to keep my mouth shut!;)

[craltal]

to answer your initial question, the BKO uses one solenoid to actuate and a spring to return the valve stem to the closed position while a B2K uses a second solenoid to close the valve.

As most retailers have blown out both guns since it appears that ICD is focusing on Freestyle and ProMasters, it is quite difficult to find anything in stock with PDS.

[dahoeb]

hmm
i agree with what others are saying. the ion, unfortunately, is probably the only gun thats really gonna fit your demands. i don't recall how much a diablo wrath is but i've heard good things about them and maybe if they're cheap enough, you should consider one of those.

on a good note, i've seen many an ion out on the field, and i don't think i've ever seen anyone fumbling around trying to get theirs to work. and they all seemed to perform solidly.

[PnueMagger]

hmm
i agree with what others are saying. the ion, unfortunately, is probably the only gun thats really gonna fit your demands.

Why do you say unfortunate. They're 199 stock around 250-270 with qev and feedneck and trigger. They're easy on air, not to tough to maintain at all, and lay paint like a champ. 17bps ramping is plenty fast and if you need more than that then you might as well buy a very high end gun, b/c if you shoot that much paint, then the paint you shoot in one weekend will cost more than the marker (and budget shopping for a gun would make no sense). keep an extra o-ring kit on hand and if crap happens, then you'll be out like 20 mins tops.

Great marker with these basic upgrades, and upgradablity is limitless. To be honest, the stock trgger is ok and just get the autococker breach to use any Auto Cocker barrel. Or get a proto barrel offline fr like 20 bucks. Remember, if you treat any marker with care, it will take care you right back. (unless it's Brass eagle)

[dahoeb]

Why do you say unfortunate.
i say unfortunately simply because i'm bias against the ion. i really just don't like it all that much, maybe its just the look of it. maybe its the bad experiences i've had with SP. but i'm not so hardheaded that i won't acknowledge a good deal or a good marker, and i think the ion is both of those.

*just a note, i looked up the wrath on paintballgear.com, they have grey wraths for 209.50. another pretty good deal.

[Munnin]

http://www.g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=62752

oh come on, you know you wanna save up......

[fullofpaint]

I'd say an Ion, but that new S/f cocker looks interwsting, for the price prolly pretty nice especially since it comes with a Kaner barrel set but I'd wait for some reviews first.

[dahoeb]

http://www.g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=62752

oh come on, you know you wanna save up......

W O W.... you guys can keep your ramping and halos, i'll take one of those babies! i bet if i haul one of those bad boys on the field with me, the other teams won't even bother showing up! the feds on the other hand.....

[FinchMan]

W O W.... you guys can keep your ramping and halos, i'll take one of those babies! i bet if i haul one of those bad boys on the field with me, the other teams won't even bother showing up! the feds on the other hand.....

the percussion alone would pop all of the airball bunkers in the area. Nowhere to hide! :shooting:

[Asym]

One of the biggest complaints about the ion is the feedneck, at least its replacable. On all of the trilogies they have a non-clamping feedneck that can't be replaced, except by sending to someone like FBM that can remove it and press fit one of theirs in. Also everything is loc-tited down so its a pain to adjust out the back block from hitting the body, making it louder.

At $200 an ion is still a better deal than any cheap cocker.