on/off questions and ideas

[Jotsy]

first off, sorry if this has been asked, but searching for on/off or ULT brings up more threads than actually exist on AO (ok not really, but it does bring up a lot). also, i'm not entirely sure if this belongs in the tech forums or not....

i was wondering how the ULT works. i mean, what is the theory behind it? how does it reduce the pressure on the on/off pin? are there any cut-away diagrams or animations of it working?

also, has anybody actually ever thought of putting a return mechanism in the on/off itself? like a spring built in that helps shut the on/off. now of course it won't be strong enough to actually close the on/off but it should help reduce the force needed to close it. this way you got lighter trigger pull but still get to keep the reactivity.

alternatively, you could have the on/off pin magnetically charged and have another part of the on/off magnetically charged and aligned so that the pin wants to shut the valve. (works like a kila magnetic detent)

another idea i had would be to divert some of the air in the chamber to the outside of the on/off so that it equalizes the pressure on both sides of the on/off pin making it alot lighter to pull the trigger. so when the chamber is empty, there's a lot of pressure on the pin and thus a lot of reactivity. then when the chamber is full, there's no overall force on the pin and it moves freely. but this would require drilling into the valve tho....

so what do you guys think? good ideas? or does everybody just think that the ULT is "good enough"? at this point i'd like to make it clear that i've never had any experience with the ULT. :p

[MoeMag]

alternatively, you could have the on/off pin magnetically charged and have another part of the on/off magnetically charged and aligned so that the pin wants to shut the valve. (works like a kila magnetic detent)

another idea i had would be to divert some of the air in the chamber to the outside of the on/off so that it equalizes the pressure on both sides of the on/off pin making it alot lighter to pull the trigger. so when the chamber is empty, there's a lot of pressure on the pin and thus a lot of reactivity. then when the chamber is full, there's no overall force on the pin and it moves freely. but this would require drilling into the valve tho....

Magnetic assisted on/off... COOL. Use the magnet to assist in lightning the pull.

The outside air chamber thing would probably really resemble a pnumag by the time you are finished.

Good thinking.

here is one disassembled if that helps...
http://www.pbportal.de/files/techres/AGD/ULT-Explode.jpg

[Automaggot68]

Magnetic assisted on/off... COOL. Use the magnet to assist in lightning the pull.

The outside air chamber thing would probably really resemble a pnumag by the time you are finished.

Good thinking.

here is one disassembled if that helps...
http://www.pbportal.de/files/techres/AGD/ULT-Explode.jpg


I'm sorry, but for the size that would be needed to do that ( Tiny) I dont think there's a magnet in the world (read: affordable) that would assist you in activating the on/off.
I don't recall the number offhand, but alot have no idea how much pressure it takes to do this, and a magnet would do little to nothing.

[Automaggot68]

alternatively, you could have the on/off pin magnetically charged and have another part of the on/off magnetically charged and aligned so that the pin wants to shut the valve. (works like a kila magnetic detent)

another idea i had would be to divert some of the air in the chamber to the outside of the on/off so that it equalizes the pressure on both sides of the on/off pin making it alot lighter to pull the trigger. so when the chamber is empty, there's a lot of pressure on the pin and thus a lot of reactivity. then when the chamber is full, there's no overall force on the pin and it moves freely. but this would require drilling into the valve tho....





If there was air on BOTH sides of the on/off, how would you depress it? It would just be another overcomplicated part on a marker.

[Z-man]

I don't recall the number offhand, but alot have no idea how much pressure it takes to do this, and a magnet would do little to nothing.


The pressure on the on/off pin is the input pressure you give the valve. If you have a preset tank set at 850psi then that is your pressure. If you cranked up the input pressure to 1200psi then that is your input pressure.

[Automaggot68]

The pressure on the on/off pin is the input pressure you give the valve. If you have a preset tank set at 850psi then that is your pressure. If you cranked up the input pressure to 1200psi then that is your input pressure.

Thanks for the correction, Zak.


I read it as:

The pressure IN the valve
And
The area of the pin where youre sear depresses the pin itself.

Guess I got lost in it.

Also: In a month or so I'll hopefully have a new toy for you. Keep an eye on your PM's.

[neppo1345]

You won't find a magnet strong enough.

Adding a spring would slow down the return onf the trigger, lowering your ROF.

The ULT effectively lowers the area on the top of the On/Off, therefore lowering the force of the trigger pull. Once it opens, the lower half of the ULT takes over, frocing the trigger back allowing the trigger to reset with force. It's kinda hard to explain it...

[Automaggot68]

I personally don't see a problem with the stock on/off, or shooting my Xvalved Dallara with no bounce. I use an intelliframe and a Logic Vert frame and well.

I shoot fast enough with both, they're both easy to shoot with. I don't know how to stress this more.

I even prefer shooting WITHOUT a ULT kit, it jsut feels better to me.

Is the on/off really that bad?

What woudl you hope to achieve with these ideas?

[Jotsy]

What woudl you hope to achieve with these ideas?

i dunno, its just in my habit to try and think of ways to squeeze every ounce of peformance out of everything i own :D

to be honest, i came up with the equalizing pressure idea first in an attempt to find a way to make the on/off seal itself without relying on the trigger (my original idea involved also having a spring in there to seal it once the pressure had equalized). then, in an attempt to try and make it more easier/cheaper to manufacture, i came up with the other ideas.

alternatively, you could install an "on/off assist assembly" in the trigger frame and keep the valve stock. basically, it would just apply constant pressure on the on/off. you would need a modified sear tho. and maybe if you tap into the chamber it could even apply pressure only when the chamber is full (i guess thats almost pnuemag territory)

[Automaggot68]

i dunno, its just in my habit to try and think of ways to squeeze every ounce of peformance out of everything i own :D

to be honest, i came up with the equalizing pressure idea first in an attempt to find a way to make the on/off seal itself without relying on the trigger (my original idea involved also having a spring in there to seal it once the pressure had equalized). then, in an attempt to try and make it more easier/cheaper to manufacture, i came up with the other ideas.

alternatively, you could install an "on/off assist assembly" in the trigger frame and keep the valve stock. basically, it would just apply constant pressure on the on/off. you would need a modified sear tho. and maybe if you tap into the chamber it could even apply pressure only when the chamber is full (i guess thats almost pnuemag territory)



If the pressure was equalized, why would you need a spring to seal it?

[Jotsy]

well my understanding is that equal pressure on both sides of the pin just means that there is no dominant force acting on the pin and therefore it doesn't move anywhere. so it needs just a small "nudge" from a small spring to push it into the "off" position.