5 WORST PB companies

[BigEvil]

Ok, so we all know that there are some really good PB companies out there. Lets see your five worst now. We all have horror stories. List whatever paintball related co you want, feilds, stores, online stores, manufactureres, whatever.

In no particular order:

888paintball/National
TAG/KM2/Devils Den
Freeflow
Smart Parts
Monteneel (Remember them? great gun, crap company)

[jdev]

good idea, bad execution.

It would be better if each person listed the companies they think are bad, and name supporting facts/arguements.

[BigEvil]

good idea, bad execution.

It would be better if each person listed the companies they think are bad, and name supporting facts/arguements.


Good idea. I just didnt want the thread to get crazy, but what the hell, its Tuesday.

[Jotsy]

i only have a couple on my list:

racegun - they stole my money! :mad: i bought some parts ($90 worth) off their site in december.... and i still haven't got them. if they're not doing buissiness, they should at least take their store site down.

getrealpaintball - all i wanted was a bottomline kit for my traccer and they are pretty much the only place i know of that still stock it... but for them to even notice me, i had to buy a $100 carbine stock as well... (which i ended up never using)

[phantomhitman]

What did tag do to you? I have seen/witnessed/talked to/hung out with/partied with/bought from TAG since I met Chris and they have been nothing but nice to me. Did they take a turn for the worse recently?

The crapiest company I can think of is action village, they never have anything in stock and somehow manage to screw up shipping every single time. The are followed closely by shady forum people, but at least I know they are shady.

[BigEvil]

888paintball/National - try dealing with the returns people. I bought 6 cases of paint that were all bad. (and I dont mean shot bad, I mean not one left the barrel of any gun intact bad). After telling me to return them and paying for the return shipping myself, they only gave me credit for ONE case. Subsequent complaint I filed with AMEX was found in my favor. I was buying 6-10 cases of paint from them (At least) a month for a few years. Not to mention the other items ive purchased. I added up the receipts that Ive saved over the years, and the total came out to $9,565. Thats not including the ones I couldnt find or remember, so basically they told someone who has spent $10k with them over the years to go F myself over six cases of cheap paint. Great way to do business.

TAG/KM2/Devils Den - Emag boards, Devil mags, need I say more? At least they still can come through. I really love their products, so im rooting for them. Great guys, great products, poor expectation managment.

Freeflow - similar situation, people paying for parts and waiting forever.

Smart Parts - Obviously the whole patent thing, but they arent without other sins. I waited for almost a month for them to ship me a Freak kit with no excuse other than the computer is acting screwy. It apparently wasnt acting screwy enough not to proccess my credit card. I had to call thema fter four weeks to "remind" them about the order, only to be told that they couldnt find it in their system.

Monteneel - Remember them? great gun, crap company. They found out I was doing trigger jobs on Z-1's and refused to sell me parts anymore. Talk about touchy. I guess bankruptcy was a better option than taking my money. Im glad they didnt find out what I was doing to their valves.

[phantomhitman]

You cannot lump TAG with Devils Den. They know each other, and Devils uses TAG boards, thats about it. I understand your point but it is not fair to lump companies together like that.

[BigEvil]

You cannot lump TAG with Devils Den. They know each other, and Devils uses TAG boards, thats about it. I understand your point but it is not fair to lump companies together like that.


I always though they were different in name only? I learned something new today. :D

[grEnAlEins]

The only place I have ever had a problem with was orderpaintball.com. I ordered an Empire 4+3 harness. They sent me a faulty 3+2 instead :mad: , because they were out of 4+3, yet they still found it in their hearts to charge me for the 4+3 :rolleyes: . I got it, and before I even played a game the thing started ripping... I called them to try and get it replaced, and they pretty much told me to FO. Horrible place, now I shop at action villiage

[phantomhitman]

They are, at least few the last few years, different companies. TAG is owned and operated by Bob Sandifer and Chris owns and operates Devils Den. Same general area but different shops. I have never heard of KM2 though.

[PirateGent]

Ok, so we all know that there are some really good PB companies out there. Lets see your five worst now. We all have horror stories. List whatever paintball related co you want, feilds, stores, online stores, manufactureres, whatever.

In no particular order:

888paintball/National
TAG/KM2/Devils Den
Freeflow
Smart Parts
Monteneel (Remember them? great gun, crap company)

In fact my brother and I both own Monteneel Designs Z-1 and Z-2. We were able to have them converted into Mega-Z's before they closed up shop. It was my first semi and a very reliable marker. In the cold you'd see the 68 specials freeze up and the ICON would be tearing things up!

It annoys me that there is another marker out there called an ICON Z!

In fact my brother and I had some similar gear we use to call ourselves "The Icon Brothers"

[st6212]

They are, at least few the last few years, different companies. TAG is owned and operated by Bob Sandifer and Chris owns and operates Devils Den. Same general area but different shops. I have never heard of KM2 though.

KM2 are the maker of the Morlock and Mini-Morlock.

[phantomhitman]

KM2 are the maker of the Morlock and Mini-Morlock.

thank you :cheers:

[ahellers]

any current brass eagle markers. besides maybe the stingray, and talon (just cause its so fun :D )
specops, i orderd the wrong size of something online and called them 5min after placing the order and they said i would have to wait, recieve to item, and send it back.
brass eagle paint, i hate it more then bass eagle guns

walmart (i know its not really the right kind of company) for selling crappy pb stuff
t

[RapidTransit]

Hybrid Paintball - Just to many complaints to list
Smart Parts - Obviously because of their patent and strong arm tactics; Received an Ion yesterday it makes me glad I'm only using it to try to make a pneumag

[Ydna]

I think it would be a better idea to designate what exactly makes a company "bad". Just becuase I had a problem returning something with whomever doesn't mean they're one of the top 5 worst paintball companies ever. Ya know?
Not to point fingers but just becuase you got a mishap order for a barrel kit from the factory doesn't really mean the company is massively defunct. Hell, I've had a couple of problems with people ordering htings from me, in my three years on the scene. It comes from all the way up, down to one-man operations like mine. But if one of the half dozen unhappy customers thinks I run one of the worst paintball companies ever as a result...well I thik you see where I'm going. It's an extreme example, but it applies.

TAG has had their share of problems (mostly due to dates and such) but most of mine are for reasons that I've not seen parrotted by anybody else. Technical issues a lot of the time.
I think if it came down to it TAG is just the retailer for the stuff from KM2. Other than that they're really just another proshop with an online store, and a few services for guns. They're the ones that sell the boards and are responsible for ordering them, but they don't design the hardware or firmware, nor do they make them.

Personally....I've had bad experience after bad experience with action village. And from what I hear from the locals...it's to be expected. I won't go into it though, I stopped ordering stuff from them years back, so it's really no longer a concern of mine.

[ne0nwalrus]

888paintball/National: ok i have to give you this one. cuase last summer i ordered a pair of dye core pants and they sent me and e-mail saying it just went out of stock so they'll ship it when they get it in the following week. mean while they still have my money. and long story short after a month of calling and e-mailing i got not money but acredit for there store. and a little genaric note saying there sorry for any problems.

Smart Parts: i can see why you put them on the list but come on. i mean i hate them to but there still some what of a good company. yes there killing the sport, but there bringing tons of new noobs in. so i can't say i'm for or against then.

Action Village: like the post before there just crappy. the only reason i go to them is to get a fill or a case of paint cuz there like 15 minutes from me. i know a guy that worked there, and he said if they didn't have something in a color they'd ship out another color without asking. or the time they kept on selling me bad noids for my 2k2 timmy.

[Nexus]

Action Village is definitely on my personal hit list. There are alot of things about them I like, but they charge you extra shipping when they ship backordered items. It doesn't sound all that bad at first, but they tend to have alot of things out of stock. I've never heard of a any company in any business that made their customers pay for their own inability to plan properly to keep things in stock.

[slateman]

Smart Parts - I'm with neonwalrus. I'm not against them, but I cant' really say I'm for them. I don't think they're destroying paintball though.

Bob Long - To expensive and not worth it. Nice name, great player, not a good company.

Shocktech - Getting parts is really hard and a lengthy process. One of the reasons I sold my cocker.

AGD - Flame away :mad: Seriously, not enough X-Mags and Z-grips :mad:

[Arstron]

Only 2 that I have dealt with within the past month come to mind. :D

paintballtrader.com and shootpaint.com... I ordered from paintball trader and did not recieve my part for over 3 weeks! From Shootpaint.com I paid extra for a quicker shipping service, 11 days latter I am still waiting on the part. I was unable to make contact with either person by email or phone.

[BigEvil]

I think it would be a better idea to designate what exactly makes a company "bad". Just becuase I had a problem returning something with whomever doesn't mean they're one of the top 5 worst paintball companies ever. Ya know?
Not to point fingers but just becuase you got a mishap order for a barrel kit from the factory doesn't really mean the company is massively defunct. Hell, I've had a couple of problems with people ordering htings from me, in my three years on the scene. It comes from all the way up, down to one-man operations like mine. But if one of the half dozen unhappy customers thinks I run one of the worst paintball companies ever as a result...well I thik you see where I'm going. It's an extreme example, but it applies.




Sure, my little ol' bad experience may not mean squat to anyone else, but it did to me. I work hard for my money, and companies need to drop the holier than thou attitudes and not only respect their customers, but also the companies and people they sell wholesale to. How many example are there of manufactureres undercutting their prices? Its tough enough to make a buck in this industry, but then to have to compete against your supplier is absurd. I also love it when they tell you that "We do not sell retail". Yet, they have two online retail outlets, and set the wholesale prices they sell to you higher than their retail price. You gotta love that.

Back in 94 or 95(If I remember right) when I first was seriously shopping for my first high end gun, I tried to get as much info as I could before making a decision. Paintball shops were scarce, and the internet was in its infancy. Other than APG and Paint-Check magazines, the only way to get decent information was to either know someone who had a gun or get on the phone and hound the manufacturers. So I started dialing. After being hung up on by one place, and being transfered through phone hell at two others, someone at AGD spent over an hour on the phone with me. I wish I knew who it was, but I was very appreciative, and that person did a good job accuaratley portraying the automag. He not only spent time telling me how great it was (and why) but also informing me of its weaknesses, which at the time was liquid co2. He also educated me as to how to overcome them. When I got my mag shortly after, I had enough knowlege to be able to use the gun with minimum issues.

Anyone who takes the time to treat their customers well like that deserve to have a degree of loyalty. Nowadays you cant even get a straight answer from places on inventory status.

[sneakyhacker420]

NPS and any company associated with them...

[stop whining buy a mag]

NPS-We all know why.
Smart Parts-Cheap products and horrible customer service.
ICD-Horrible customer service and techs.
Hybrid-They're just good at ripping people off.
Tag Sportz-Don't make promises unless you can keep them.

I have some sympathy for DevilsDen. His job must be a nightmare by now. His best bet would be to come on to the forum and ask who wants out. He should also contact everyone by email that may not frequent these forums and ask if they want out. No one can hold a grudge then.

[FSU_Paintball]

National - For squashing the little guy everywhere. They have their redeeming qualities but it doesn't outweigh the fact that they force their dealers to sell at a certain price while undercutting them by selling their gear for less on their own site.

K2/BE/JT/WGP - What's that? You're a company who says your products aren't mass produced crap? And you'd be willing to let us buy you? Let's talk.

Smart Parts - they CERTAINLY have gotten much better, and I credit them for providing good sponsorships to smaller teams, bringing paintball into a bigger mainstream market, and bringing prices lower, making upper end equipment available to more players. But I really don't think I'll ever forget them as having the first high-profile slew of frivolous lawsuits that assisted in demolishing the grassroots part of this industry and slowing innovation.

Bob Long - personal opinion, but I think they SUCK for what they are. I really don't think they shoot half as good as most guns in their price range. Talk about overpriced. Intimidators were originally released with parts that HAD to be replaced (ram caps, anyone?). They've gotten better but I always thought they were the definition of high-priced mass-produced poor tolerance "beta test" level markers.

Psychoballistics - Ripoff artists. Remember that focker that looks just like the Ultralite? And all of their stuff is crap.

Hybrid - cool gear, but come on... ever heard of copyright infringement?

[javasnot17]

Action Village is definitely on my personal hit list. There are alot of things about them I like, but they charge you extra shipping when they ship backordered items. It doesn't sound all that bad at first, but they tend to have alot of things out of stock. I've never heard of a any company in any business that made their customers pay for their own inability to plan properly to keep things in stock.


QFT. Even though I still order from 'em every now & then, their ability to keep items in stock sucks balls. Pretty sad for one of, if not, the biggest online paintball companies. Jesus, I bet they couldn't keep a bag of smashed ***holes in stock if they had to.

[Zygote]

I would make it a point not to keep smashed ***holes in stock.

[bentothejam1n]

winchester
whoever makes wild streak
Dicks (only because they underfill you like no other)
new BE
Hybrid
/i would do explanations but i'm really hungry

[ntn4502]

[QUOTE=FSU_Paintball]
Psychoballistics - Ripoff artists. Remember that focker that looks just like the Ultralite? And all of their stuff is crap.
[QUOTE]

They are the old Ultralites, they bought the excess bodies Dye had

[RapidTransit]

National
K2/BE/JT/WGP
Smart Parts
Bob Long
Hybrid
BE/JT you expect crap markers, I never liked Autocockers at all but I apreciate some of the build qualitys when I first saw the prices of those trilogys.... oh quanity>quality
Smart Parts I still can't get over the crap Ion they put out, Ions are only worthwhile built from aftermarket parts imho
Bob Long, Timmy? Spimmy? Overpriced fully electro-pneumatic spyder?
Hybrid they make Smart Parts stuff seem aerospace grade quality.

[etjoyride]

The crapiest company I can think of is action village, they never have anything in stock and somehow manage to screw up shipping every single time. The are followed closely by shady forum people, but at least I know they are shady.


I have ordered everything from paint to guns to gear from PBG and have never had a single order mess up and they always get here in a very timely fashion. It semes you have been very unlucky.

[jenarelJAM]

I too have never had a problem with actionvillage. Everything is shipped fast, I get tracking #'s. They give free(but slow) shipping over $80(even paint), and they package the stuff nicely, lots of padding. About their out-of-stock stuff, just don't buy stuff out-of-stock. It's not that hard. They have 13 different brands of ____, in 4 different colors each. I'm sure that you can find one that will work, even if it's not your absolute first choice.

My hated store is Xpaintball.com, they sold me a shoddy Xstream, I had to pay return shipping for the exchange. The replacement was shoddy, again I had to pay return shipping, this time for a return. $30 of shipping and 4 weeks later, I still hadn't used my new emag and I still didn't have a tank. Then I called Tuna and he helped me out.

And I can't remember for sure, but when I bought my Spyder Imagine around two years ago, I think I bought it off Xpaintball.com, and it took 3 weeks before they shipped it. They didn't mention it was backordered when they took my money.

[Automaggot68]

You cannot lump TAG with Devils Den. They know each other, and Devils uses TAG boards, thats about it. I understand your point but it is not fair to lump companies together like that.

They're also screwing over Logic with Pred II boards.

[phantomhitman]

They're also screwing over Logic with Pred II boards.

You can still not lump TAG with Devils Den, like I said before.

[Maghog]

SP wins my vote for the worst ever, just for being greedy bastards and ruining the game with their "me-first" attitude.

WGP-only because they sold out. It makes sense for your own personal well-being, but Bud Orr must be having a few sleepless nights after looking at what they've done to the cocker.

Brass Eagle-$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is all that matters. Remember their masks with the thin lenses that broke? When asked about them, they said they didn't believe it was enough of an issue to redesign the product. The ASTM soon told them otherwise.

Honorable Mention(disappointments)

AGD-After all they've done for the game and the products they create....they just pack it up and leave us with all the other money grabbing companies.

Triggernomics-a company with some good ideas, but not enough fuel to take off with it.

[skife]

Triggernomics-a company with some good ideas, but not enough fuel to take off with it.


you diss on your own company? :P


Actionvillage is great, my buddy's dad ordered like $300 worth of stuff from there a SS freak kit with SS back ect, they sent him 3 SS freak backs and 2 SS freak kit inserts.

[Jackel411]

Al Mollick and Porno Paintball...

Probally the worst hack of a customizer ever. Lets just say electronic cockers involved piano wire...

If you dont know who he is to bad.

[DarkMag722]

Psychoballistics

[HuD1Ni]

Bob Long, Timmy? Spimmy? Overpriced fully electro-pneumatic spyder?

Have you owned a intimidator, or several ?..

[Nexus]

I've placed at least 4-5 orders from Action Village. While they've never sent me the wrong thing, there's been a backordered item in every single order that they wanted to charge me additional shipping for. Eventually, I got the hint and started to be very careful to wait until everything I wanted to order (or at least the stuff that I didn't want to save for my next order) was in stock. Later, I got the rest of the hint and started avoiding ordering things from them altogether.

[sanity]

Anyone consider the that the likely reason action village is always out of stock is because as soon as they get some stuff it flies out in a couple of days. I would wager that they get a certain alotment with each shipment, just like other companies, but their popularity has the end result of making a lot of items unavailable until the next shipment.

Good store IMO. They are essentially standard bearer for online pricing of pb goods, and as long as what you order is in stock you will have no issues. Correct me if I'm wrong but I also think you can choose to hold shipment until the entire order is in stock and then (because they only have to ship once...) they charge you once for shipping.

[Enos Shenk]

Well I would have to say K2 just for the horrible lack of quality thats been appearing in new cockers.

And Cushman. Im sure you dont know who that is, some guy made vacuum molded plastic "dress up" kits for Tippmanns and stingrays. They looked HORRID. I mean truly and horrificly bad, imagine taking a real gun and shrink wrapping black plastic over it, thats how these plastic kits looked. He used to post on the Tippmann Forum alot and blatantly pimp his stuff. When people on the forum questioned the quality of thin plastic kits over your gun, and told him how bad they looked, he flipped out and went on a flaming rampage.

[Automaggot68]

Well I would have to say K2 just for the horrible lack of quality thats been appearing in new cockers.

And Cushman. Im sure you dont know who that is, some guy made vacuum molded plastic "dress up" kits for Tippmanns and stingrays. They looked HORRID. I mean truly and horrificly bad, imagine taking a real gun and shrink wrapping black plastic over it, thats how these plastic kits looked. He used to post on the Tippmann Forum alot and blatantly pimp his stuff. When people on the forum questioned the quality of thin plastic kits over your gun, and told him how bad they looked, he flipped out and went on a flaming rampage.


Jesus, pics?

[Mescalito]

winchester
whoever makes wild streak
Dicks (only because they underfill you like no other)
new BE
Hybrid
/i would do explanations but i'm really hungry


Dicks sporting goods... yes go get your c02 tank filled here if you want the employee to come back afterwards and ask you what kind of tank you have after the have "filled" it.... Is the 5th fill free worth your tank?

[Teamslayer76]

Walmart- Way overpriced, cheap good, lack of knowlege of the sport.

Smartparts- Horrible quality control, but decent markers.

Phychoballistics, there is nothing wrong with them. Also just to let you know they purchased a large order of Dye's UL Cocker bodies. They were then used on the Lightning autococker.
They were really Dye bodies, but they were lower quality. :)