Do they still sell pancake selenoids?

[RavishingEddie]

I am working on my project right now and I am wondering if they still sell the pancake selenoids or "Self Actuating" selenoids. Not valve selenoids. Thank you all in advance

[BigEvil]

www.solenoidcity.com

Call them tell them what you are looking for.

[Automaggot68]

Maybe someone should link GAdevil.

[CoolHand]

Maybe someone should link GAdevil.

They don't have a stock solenoid that will work in a Mag frame, been there, tried that. You see where I decided to go instead.

They will, however, wind a coil to match whatever wattage you need. I suggested this avenue to GADevil about a week into his troubles. Either they couldn't help him, or he didn't ask, which it is I have no idea.

[Automaggot68]

They don't have a stock solenoid that will work in a Mag frame, been there, tried that. You see where I decided to go instead.

They will, however, wind a coil to match whatever wattage you need. I suggested this avenue to GADevil about a week into his troubles. Either they couldn't help him, or he didn't ask, which it is I have no idea.

What are we gonna do about the boards for the frames, anyway? Wait on Bob?

[CoolHand]

What are we gonna do about the boards for the frames, anyway? Wait on Bob?

Gave up on Bob long ago.

Curt just emailed me yesterday incredulous that they hadn't shipped yet.

He's checking into it.

We shall see.

:argh:

[Automaggot68]

Gave up on Bob long ago.

Curt just emailed me yesterday incredulous that they hadn't shipped yet.

He's checking into it.

We shall see.

:argh:


Just give the word, and we'll have an old fashioned ditch-diggin.

[RavishingEddie]

Gave up on Bob long ago.

Curt just emailed me yesterday incredulous that they hadn't shipped yet.

He's checking into it.

We shall see.

:argh:


Ok I went to SelenoidCity.com and they have these options when I looked at their supply

select a DC voltage 03 06 09 12 15 18 21 24

select a duty cycle C, I, L, P

I am assuming I would choose 9 voltage and C, for continuous, but I am guessing on them both. I am looking at a tubular pull type as I would like to replace the stock Emag Selenoid for one that can do the same and consume less power, and therefor be able to use a smaller battery with less weight.
Does anyone know the specs on the noids used for the Devilmags or Hyperframes?

[Automaggot68]

Ok I went to SelenoidCity.com and they have these options when I looked at their supply

select a DC voltage 03 06 09 12 15 18 21 24

select a duty cycle C, I, L, P

I am assuming I would choose 9 voltage and C, for continuous, but I am guessing on them both. I am looking at a tubular pull type as I would like to replace the stock Emag Selenoid for one that can do the same and consume less power, and therefor be able to use a smaller battery with less weight.
Does anyone know the specs on the noids used for the Devilmags or Hyperframes?

If the EMag solenoid could have been replaced, used less power, and be SMALLER..



It would have been done that way.

[RavishingEddie]

If the EMag solenoid could have been replaced, used less power, and be SMALLER..



It would have been done that way.


The Emag was built in 2001 that is 5 years ago. Technology changes dramatically fast. Just look at the Emag board compared to boards on newer guns. The boards are much smaller in comparison and offer alot more features. (I am not taking into account the Xmod software) All I am looking for is a selenoid that is strong enough to pull or push the sear. Is that alot to ask? :confused:

[Automaggot68]

The Emag was built in 2001 that is 5 years ago. Technology changes dramatically fast. Just look at the Emag board compared to boards on newer guns. The boards are much smaller in comparison and offer alot more features. (I am not taking into account the Xmod software) All I am looking for is a selenoid that is strong enough to pull or push the sear. Is that alot to ask? :confused:


Listen.
If it could have been done by now, it WOULD HAVE.
Use the search feature, there are numerous threads on this subject.

[magman007]

by todays specifications, yes the e-mag is a lil old, but in retrospect to the solenoid issue, it is possible there is a smaller and "better" solenoid out there for the e-mag, but it hasnt been found yet, and if it has been found, then im sure we all would know by now.

[RavishingEddie]

by todays specifications, yes the e-mag is a lil old, but in retrospect to the solenoid issue, it is possible there is a smaller and "better" solenoid out there for the e-mag, but it hasnt been found yet, and if it has been found, then im sure we all would know by now.


I have looked around and the ideas are very different than mine. I am not trying to be an ***, but to ellaborate better, I was thinking of replacing the whole hardware all together and attempt to install a predator board. If I do this, replacing the noid is not an option. I can attempt to go the "spool" type solenoids, but that would be hard since it would require a gas through front grip, which in the case of the Emag the front grip is for a battery and not to hold air. I also do not think the E/M switch would be available if I choose that option. Yes it would work, but I would be far away from holding an Emag. So I have no choice, but to attempt a design that would benefit the use of a lower voltage solenoid, since I would not be able to power the Standard Emag solenoid. Any more suggestions? Thank you all for your replies. :)

[Rudz]

Just give the word, and we'll have an old fashioned ditch-diggin.


make room for ga next to bob..ooh wait were gonna haveour guns any day now psp is over..lol...and how many other times has this same bs beeb spun???...grabs shovel..im diggin... :mad:

[CoolHand]

Ok I went to SelenoidCity.com and they have these options when I looked at their supply

select a DC voltage 03 06 09 12 15 18 21 24

select a duty cycle C, I, L, P

I am assuming I would choose 9 voltage and C, for continuous, but I am guessing on them both. I am looking at a tubular pull type as I would like to replace the stock Emag Selenoid for one that can do the same and consume less power, and therefor be able to use a smaller battery with less weight.
Does anyone know the specs on the noids used for the Devilmags or Hyperframes?

The problem is, if it uses less juice, it produces less force. Simple as that.

It's not the 'noid's fault, it's the fact that the Mag sear takes so much force over such a long distance to actuate. Fix the linkage and you can use a smaller 'noid. Problem is that the timing of the marker is built into that sear, so you can't really change the leverage ratios (plus the stuff that needs to be actuated can't be moved around anyway).

You'll look and look and look, and then you'll realize that nothing out there will do what you want it to do without a big honkin battery pack. How do I know? I did all of this over two years ago, and came to the above conclusion. It cannot be done, and furthermore, solenoid technology will never "advance" to a point where it can be done, since a coil of wire today will be a coil of wire tomorrow. You can't change the laws of magnetics.

Sorry man, sometimes engineering is a cruel mistress. :ninja:

[Joni]

What if the on/off is replaced with a ULT? It has been shown that smaller noids can run those. You just have to make sure that the leverage is right, so that the smaller noid moves the sear enough.

[RavishingEddie]

The problem is, if it uses less juice, it produces less force. Simple as that.

It's not the 'noid's fault, it's the fact that the Mag sear takes so much force over such a long distance to actuate. Fix the linkage and you can use a smaller 'noid. Problem is that the timing of the marker is built into that sear, so you can't really change the leverage ratios (plus the stuff that needs to be actuated can't be moved around anyway).

You'll look and look and look, and then you'll realize that nothing out there will do what you want it to do without a big honkin battery pack. How do I know? I did all of this over two years ago, and came to the above conclusion. It cannot be done, and furthermore, solenoid technology will never "advance" to a point where it can be done, since a coil of wire today will be a coil of wire tomorrow. You can't change the laws of magnetics.

Sorry man, sometimes engineering is a cruel mistress. :ninja:

Well that just sends me into the thinkers penalty box. :cheers: I guess instead of updating you guys on my successes I will update you all on my recent failed attemps ah well.

[BigEvil]

What if the on/off is replaced with a ULT? It has been shown that smaller noids can run those. You just have to make sure that the leverage is right, so that the smaller noid moves the sear enough.

People have been tossing the idea around of replacing the 18v pull-type noid and using it in conjunction with the ULT. The stock emag board is made to run with the 18v battery, so I do not know how dropping that down to 9v will effect it.

I think a better noid solution, would be to convert the gun to electro pnematic. Replace the pull noid with a ram, use a noid similar to the timmy in conjunction with a LPR. THe problem then becomes how to fit everything into that space - a problem that would partially be solved if the Micro-Morlock ever comes out.

[Arstron]

People have been tossing the idea around of replacing the 18v pull-type noid and using it in conjunction with the ULT. The stock emag board is made to run with the 18v battery, so I do not know how dropping that down to 9v will effect it.

I think a better noid solution, would be to convert the gun to electro pnematic. Replace the pull noid with a ram, use a noid similar to the timmy in conjunction with a LPR. THe problem then becomes how to fit everything into that space - a problem that would partially be solved if the Micro-Morlock ever comes out.

Of course if you replace the board with the new micro morlock (that will be sweet, its about the size of a dime!) or any other board, then it wont be a problem using a pancake solenoid and ULT. ;)

If somone could find a set of gutted emag lowers with no electronics at all, cut off the battery housing, put in your own electronics and made it either all electronic or electro pneumatic, it would be worth the effort. ;)

[BigEvil]

Of course if you replace the board with the new micro morlock (that will be sweet, its about the size of a dime!) or any other board, then it wont be a problem using a pancake solenoid and ULT. ;)

If somone could find a set of gutted emag lowers with no electronics at all, cut off the battery housing, put in your own electronics and made it either all electronic or electro pneumatic, it would be worth the effort. ;)


Its on the "To-Do" list. :D Now that I think about it, its almost coming up. LOL

[Automaggot68]

Of course if you replace the board with the new micro morlock (that will be sweet, its about the size of a dime!) or any other board, then it wont be a problem using a pancake solenoid and ULT. ;)

If somone could find a set of gutted emag lowers with no electronics at all, cut off the battery housing, put in your own electronics and made it either all electronic or electro pneumatic, it would be worth the effort. ;)

I though doing just that, only using a smaller battery and putting the electronics in the Emag batteryhousing.

[Rudz]

theres plenty of room, btw any word on the mico morlock?

[luke]

I am working on my project right now and I am wondering if they still sell the pancake selenoids or "Self Actuating" selenoids. Not valve selenoids. Thank you all in advance

WHy not just use a Spyder "noid (http://store.paintballace.com/kifapa.html)?

[hitech]

I believe you can use a smaller solenoid in the eMag. First, Tom put a larger solenoid than is required. He oversized it so that it would work under far less than optimal conditions. It was also designed for a level 7 bolt. That bolt required much more force (drag of the sear on the bolt) to overcome. Even with a level 10 bolt you still need a fairly large solenoid to overcome the on/off pin pressure. The next step would be to reduce that force by installing a ULT with requires far less force to overcome. However, the ULT with it's lowered force does not have enough force to lift the "heavy" plunger in the stock eMag solenoid fast enough. Since the ULT requires less force to move and a smaller solenoid would have a lighter plunger it should work. A ULT requires about 15ozs of force to move. There is a mechanical advantage (lever) in the sear at the solenoid attachment point. Therefore we should need less than 15oz to fire the eMag.

With that information we have the stock eMag solenoid:

http://www.solenoidcity.com/solenoid/tubular/s-15-75p1.htm

The plunger weight is 0.6 oz.

This solenoid:

http://www.solenoidcity.com/solenoid/tubular/s-10-50p1.htm

should have enough force to fire the marker and has a plunger weight of 0.15 oz which should return fine (and possibly/probably even faster).

So, someone just needs to try it out. :D

:cheers:


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The only Hitech Lubricant (http://www.kercon.com)

[RavishingEddie]

I believe you can use a smaller solenoid in the eMag. First, Tom put a larger solenoid than is required. He oversized it so that it would work under far less than optimal conditions. It was also designed for a level 7 bolt. That bolt required much more force (drag of the sear on the bolt) to overcome. Even with a level 10 bolt you still need a fairly large solenoid to overcome the on/off pin pressure. The next step would be to reduce that force by installing a ULT with requires far less force to overcome. However, the ULT with it's lowered force does not have enough force to lift the "heavy" plunger in the stock eMag solenoid fast enough. Since the ULT requires less force to move and a smaller solenoid would have a lighter plunger it should work. A ULT requires about 15ozs of force to move. There is a mechanical advantage (lever) in the sear at the solenoid attachment point. Therefore we should need less than 15oz to fire the eMag.

With that information we have the stock eMag solenoid:

http://www.solenoidcity.com/solenoid/tubular/s-15-75p1.htm

The plunger weight is 0.6 oz.

This solenoid:

http://www.solenoidcity.com/solenoid/tubular/s-10-50p1.htm

should have enough force to fire the marker and has a plunger weight of 0.15 oz which should return fine (and possibly/probably even faster).

So, someone just needs to try it out. :D

:cheers:


Wow that is awesome I will definitely attempt it. I will need to get a ULT first, if anyone else tries it we can PM each other about problems encountered. But before I try it I have a question.

Would it be possible to simply switch out the stock Emag board and place this capacitor (http://store.paintballace.com/spcica6816v.html) along with a newer board and this battery (http://store.paintballace.com/kispreba9.html)?

I guess I wanna try the simplest way which is bypassing the switching of solenoids, but if not then I will attempt the other method.

[hitech]

I will address replacing the solenoid first. In addition to getting the new solenoid you will either need a new mount or a thread adapter. I bet luke here on the forums can make you a new adapter. Then you will need to re-tap the threads in the plunger or have an adapter made (assuming the threads are different). I would go with the shortest duty cycle. Paintball markers don't keep the solenoid on very long.

That cap is a little small. The hyperframe uses a 10k cap vs that one which is 6.8k. That battery will never drive the stock eMag solenoid. The circuit board needs to be able to handle at least 3 amps. However, if those are intended to power the replacement solenoid I suggested, then then I would use a 10k cap. The battey would probably work as long as the solenoid is wound for the proper voltage.