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RogueFactor
04-28-2006, 04:02 AM
http://www.pbnation.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=21709637

It appears 5 of the 10 NXL teams are boycotting a SP-Controlled event. :rofl:


This is a little long but worth reading


The NXL was originally started with the existing Pro Division Teams in the PSP in an attempt to create a League that would be able to be shown on TV just as any legitimate sport show and be able to create careers and pay players as professional players with actual Salaries.
This could be done by legitimizing the League and having a Network that would be interested in promoting such a format.
We set up rules and structure much like the NHL and began the process of seeking interest..We also in an attempt to make sure that whoever came around that may have an interest in putting this league on TV would be clear to move without baggage.. This is the reason that initially there was no filming and the like so that this party would see that they had exclusive rights to the filming and would not have a dilution factor that pre-existed. In Hind site this was a bad move with good intentions.

The Gardners had some influence and connections with in the Television Industry or at least made efforts to make contacts and they managed to get the ear of Dick Clark.
He had an interest in trying to take the NXL to a Televised League on TV and was willing to use his resources.

The NXL and Dick Clark entered into an agreement.

In general it was outlined like this.

Dick Clark would get the NXL on TV within a two year period and for this Dick Clark Productions would get 20% of the revenue generated by the production. He would further get the rights to the products generated by the league. This means the Products generated by any team and the souvenirs sold Dick Clark Productions would also get 15% of the income from these items.
It was also written into the agreement that this would after I think three years be reduced to 15% of the revenue to Dick Clark Productions and this was for any thing world wide and forever that the League existed.. It seemed a fair trade if indeed Dick Clark Productions could do what he said he could do.

Well after the first show Dick Clark had a Heart Attack/Stroke…This also meant that he was in default of his Key Man clause of the agreement because he could not represent any longer.. His entire operation was no longer interested in Paintball. This initial airing of the TV show extended his agreement and is suppose to end based on non performance in June of 2006..

This is where it gets kinda murky. Understand that the entire time the NXL had existed that Jerry Braun had acted as legal council for the NXL.

There was talk that the Gardners wanted to pursue things along with Jerry Braun and we all Oked this effort.. We were thankful they showed so much interest and expended their personal time in this effort to continue moving forward.

We heard at the 2005 World Cup that they had found the person that Dick Clark had to go to to actually get the TV time and that they were contacting him.. This persons name is Stan Moser.. They told us that things were going well and that they were making progress..

After World Cup the NXL had a meeting the first part of December in Las Vegas and we all voted to place the NXL in the PSP in an attempt to allow the teams to compete for money as prizes in a tournament format.. The NXL had always played a League format.. Nothing was mentioned about Dick Clark or anything about TV except that the Gardners and Jerry were working on it. Oh Yeah ( it was close)

We then are asked to go to New York after Texas for another meeting This was to meet with the ESPN people and the production people to put the NXL on TV.

We get there and to our surprise we have the Gardners..Jerry Braun & Stan Moser along with the Smart Parts CFO and a couple of other Lawyers on one side of the room and the rest of the NXL owners on the other.
We find out that these individuals have formed another group/company with intentions of taking the place of Dick Clark Productions.. In other words instead of allowing the agreement to become dated they wanted to revive it but with them in its place! They were going to now take the Dick Clark %’s This was our Partners & our Legal Council who are now saying they are our partners but now taking on a another role but actually have cut themselves into a larger piece of the pie!

They said they had a production budget and that a date was set to film a tournament.

This was to take place in Connetticut at the Mohegan Sun casino Resort! Taking place on May 22nd..23rd..24th

Over a three day period we would have a shoot /tournament with 10 teams and this would be aired in the fall.. Sounds good but!

What about that 20%/15% deal with Dick Clark.. If we waited this would go away and there would be more $ for the league.. Oh no! The new company they were putting together would take the place of that… How can that be if we get on TV because then Dick Clark Productions will just say they were responsible for getting us on TV because after all Stan Moser is a personal friend of Dick Clarks and the NXL would have never contacted him without Dick Clark
So there is this possibility that if we agree then we are obligating ourselves to the 15% to Dick Clark and another 15% to this new company MGB.
We refused this deal

The Gardner also wanted the NXL to guarantee their money back because they had fronted the $800,000.00 the cost of the initial production at this event. They mad a proposal that goes like this.

The Gardners would get the first $800,000.00 that came to the league.. Jerry Braun would get the next $100,000.00 and then Stan Moser would get the next $400,000.00 after this was completed the Gardners would then get the next $800,000.00 which was now $1.6 million! We do not think that Gardner should not get their money back but not in this manner.

We reminded them that the League was originally set up so that 20% went to Dick Clark..20% went to the Administration of the NXL and then the 60% balance was to be divided amongst the Franchise Teams to be paid out as the owners wanted. Most of the owners were going to pay this $$ to the players in the form of a Salary!

Now because of this new “Circumstance” this was no longer possible! We told them that it would take somewhere between 10.3 Million to 13.3 Million dollars or Revenue befor any money would reach the players. We told them that if the players found out that this existed and that they were making $$ and the Teams/Players were not that we would have a mutiny!

We wanted no part of this deal but would rather let the Dick Clark deal pass and then start on our own looking for other avenues…

This new Company consisting of Jerry,,Gardners and Moser wanted to continue and they said if we did not want to sign the new deal that they would form their own league and continue themselves..

This Film shoot at the Mohegan Sun has been fronted by the Gardners and even up till the Vegas event they were trying to get the NXL to go.. They gave us each a contract that had to be signed in 72 hrs while at the PSP Vegas Event! We refused to sign.. Aftershock Refused! Ironmen Refused! Trauma Refused! Legacy Refused! Assassins Refused! This is five of the ten that refused to sign such a deal and extend an agreement that was not necessary and would end the agreement if they only waited another 30 days and also we would not sign a agreement that basically made it impossible to get any money to the Teams & players!!!! The Boston Legion had already told the League they were not going to the event because there was not budget to go there
Then at Vegas they said they were going to form another league if we did not sign! We asked if they were going to have these other Teams sign such a deal and we were told no! That with the new league they would have 100% control.. We asked who they were inviting..

And again were told.. Dynasty..Philly..Strange..Miami..New York..Naughty Dogs..Boston..XSV THESE ARE ALL SMART PARTS TEAMS! They were going to pay for all the teams! This is not a tournament this is a Smart Parts Advertisement with XSV in there for appearance sake..Boston is going because now someone is paying for them to attend…

Again I have to say.. It is really easy to get on TV.. You just purchase it but this was never a goal of the NXL.. We want it to be a legitimate league with legitimate Teams and players who are getting a salary…just as the NFL..NHL..AFL..XFL or any existing professional League has..

I might also add that this production taking place has no performance agreement! There is no contract for airing the Event in the Fall! We asked to see the contracts and they could not produce them…

We asked why would they not ask these teams to sign an agreement that they have asked their partners to sign?

There is much more to this story that is just not being told…

The NXL is still moving forward as part of the PSP’s and from the last event in Vegas is stronger than ever with the best competition in the World taking place..

So in Summary.. 5 of the 10 NXL teams are not attending this “Smart Parts Event” for the above mentioned reasons…

long but worth reading

slateman
04-28-2006, 06:06 AM
When they said Dick Clark . . . did they mean THE Dick Clark?!?

FreakBaller12
04-28-2006, 06:16 AM
When they said Dick Clark . . . did they mean THE Dick Clark?!?
yup, he's been tyring to get his hands into paintball alot lately(as you can see)

minimag03
04-28-2006, 06:27 AM
Wow. So what happens if XSV wins the event?

Lohman446
04-28-2006, 06:32 AM
Poor pro players, not getting any money until they put out a profitable product, and pay back the investments made to get there by others. I feel so bad for them :rolleyes:

Baby Huey
04-28-2006, 06:37 AM
Good post, good read. I am so happy that I am not on the business side of anything that I do (sales rep/preacher/ paintball player) Have a great day and God Bless.

paullus99
04-28-2006, 06:58 AM
I smell litigation!!! :cuss:

phantomhitman
04-28-2006, 09:10 AM
tourney players always ruining everything for all paintballers... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

BigEvil
04-28-2006, 12:09 PM
Rogue, that link to pbn is dead. I wonder if they canned the thread.

RogueFactor
04-28-2006, 12:28 PM
Rogue, that link to pbn is dead. I wonder if they canned the thread.

Its quite possible. Thats why I copied/pasted the body of it here.

RogueFactor
04-28-2006, 12:29 PM
Poor pro players, not getting any money until they put out a profitable product, and pay back the investments made to get there by others. I feel so bad for them :rolleyes:

Yeah, cuz thats what the post said :rolleyes:

phantomhitman
04-28-2006, 12:46 PM
Yeah, cuz thats what the post said :rolleyes:

You know that logic, common sense, and actual real world knowledge of anything is what dominates any paintball discussion, especially if its on the internet. How ya been man?!

etjoyride
04-28-2006, 04:30 PM
Wow, so smart parts really is planning to DOMINATE the paintball world....

I guess we'll have to wait and see how this unravels.

RogueFactor
04-28-2006, 04:43 PM
You know that logic, common sense, and actual real world knowledge of anything is what dominates any paintball discussion, especially if its on the internet. How ya been man?!

Yeah, its a'plenty here on the internet :tard:

Been good, just busy. What rock you been hiding under?



Wow, so smart parts really is planning to DOMINATE the paintball world....

I guess we'll have to wait and see how this unravels.

Yep, thats what it sounded like to me too. Glad to see some pro-teams arent happy about it either.

Funny how that works :dance:

Lohman446
04-28-2006, 04:52 PM
Guess I read too much into this...


And again were told.. Dynasty..Philly..Strange..Miami..New York..Naughty Dogs..Boston..XSV THESE ARE ALL SMART PARTS TEAMS! They were going to pay for all the teams! This is not a tournament this is a Smart Parts Advertisement with XSV in there for appearance sake..Boston is going because now someone is paying for them to attend…

Again I have to say.. It is really easy to get on TV.. You just purchase it but this was never a goal of the NXL.. We want it to be a legitimate league with legitimate Teams and players who are getting a salary…just as the NFL..NHL..AFL..XFL or any existing professional League has..

The thing is, NFL players are paid out of the TV deal, the other pro players are paid out of money from the TV deal, merchandising, on field sponsorships (as well as some getting off field sponsorships). And the owners, make money (I was going to say all, but someone will come up with a 1972 counterexample or something). Once you put out a profitable product then one can discuss salary. I have no problem with the owners wanting there investment, and return on investment back before handing it out to the players.

RogueFactor
04-28-2006, 05:06 PM
The thing is, NFL players are paid out of the TV deal, the other pro players are paid out of money from the TV deal, merchandising, on field sponsorships (as well as some getting off field sponsorships). And the owners, make money (I was going to say all, but someone will come up with a 1972 counterexample or something). Once you put out a profitable product then one can discuss salary.

How do you explain these Pro Leagues(NFL, MLB, etc) say they are operating at a loss, and the Pro Players still get paid?


I have no problem with the owners wanting there investment, and return on investment back before handing it out to the players.

I do have a problem with it. Those players are spending their time working, in large part, for the betterment of the owners, and should be compensated for it regardless if it turns a profit. There isnt a business model I can think of where the "employees" must assume the risk of the owners loss.

In essence, the players are employees. No employee should work for free.

And I think the point that the original poster was making is.....Smart Parts is controlling an event under the guise its an actual tournament to promote themselves at the loss of the players and the league itself.

Lohman446
04-28-2006, 05:13 PM
How do you explain these Pro Leagues(NFL, MLB, etc) say they are operating at a loss, and the Pro Players still get paid?



I do have a problem with it. Those players are spending their time working, in large part, for the betterment of the owners, and should be compensated for it regardless if it turns a profit. There isnt a business model I can think of where the "employees" must assume the risk of the owners loss.

In essence, the players are employees. No employee should work for free.

And I think the point that the original poster was making is.....Smart Parts is controlling an event under the guise its an actual tournament to promote themselves at the loss of the players and the league itself.

Show me where the NFL or MLB are working at a loss? The NFL television deal (at least according to ESPN) pay the entirety of every player's salary (granted not directly). The NFL as a league may operate at a loss (though I question that ) but the individual players / owners are not. The only reason they may show a leage loss is for tax structure reasons. Though I have never heard MLB or the NFL mention working at a loss.

The players are not employees of the league - they are individual contractors. Don't like the contracts, don't sign them, don't play (as some are saying the will not). As to SP promoting itself through a tournament series. If the people who are fronting the money are working in a manner that they see acceptable, and taking steps to maximize there profit / exposure can you really blame them? If SP can meet there goals for this tournament (and it does include exposure of paintball remember) more power to them.

p8ntball72
04-28-2006, 05:20 PM
Looks like Smart Parts is going the way of the WWF/WWE... Vince McMahon dictates who wins, who loses, and what moves they do in the ring. Complete choreographed garbage.

even though EVERYONE knows its fake the WWE still rakes in millions.
even though EVERYONE knows its fake wrestlers still consider themselves "athletes.
This will be great for "legitimizing" paintball as a "sport" :rolleyes: , But real players will know its FAKE.


"The names of all World Wrestling Entertainment televised and live programming, talent names, images, likenesses, slogans and wrestling moves and all World Wrestling Entertainment logos are trademarks which are the exclusive property of World Wrestling Entertainment, Inc. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. © 2006 World Wrestling Entertainment, Inc. All Rights Reserved."

RogueFactor
04-28-2006, 05:39 PM
Show me where the NFL or MLB are working at a loss?

Sure, I have their numbers right here in my back pocket :rolleyes:

I am sure I can find you something that shows either an owner/team or league operates at a loss. But as youve stated, you would question that too :rolleyes:


The NFL television deal (at least according to ESPN) pay the entirety of every player's salary (granted not directly). The NFL as a league may operate at a loss (though I question that ) but the individual players / owners are not. The only reason they may show a leage loss is for tax structure reasons. Though I have never heard MLB or the NFL mention working at a loss.



The players are not employees of the league - they are individual contractors. Don't like the contracts, don't sign them, don't play (as some are saying the will not).

So they do get paid, regardless if the league/team/owners takes a loss---as part of the contract. So what was the point you were trying to make?



As to SP promoting itself through a tournament series. If the people who are fronting the money are working in a manner that they see acceptable, and taking steps to maximize there profit / exposure can you really blame them? If SP can meet there goals for this tournament (and it does include exposure of paintball remember) more power to them.

Yes I can blame them, as it sounds some of teams are doing. Its not what they are doing, its the manner in which they are doing it.

Not much different than the way the whole SP litigation thing. Sounds like Deja Vu all over again. :rofl:

thefool
04-28-2006, 05:48 PM
good read...
thankfully you copied it over

theres always nppl...

in fact thats what got shown first

punkncat
04-28-2006, 05:53 PM
Well the situation certainly is convoluded (sp?)....

I have never seen an investor be payed back their original capital right off the start. Generally the repayment of their investment is a structured payment over the course of time, also generally including intrest or a cut of profit. This is of course so that the buisiness will have capital to run on as it grows. This is of course assuming the company makes a profit and is able to pay back its investors. That of course is the risk of being an investor is that you take a risk of loaning money, or putting money into something in speculation that you will be repaid with intrest/profit for your investment.

To ask the players (employees) to prove themselves profitable before gaining anything for their effort is ludicrous. No one in their right mind is going to work for free until the company turns profit. As already stated by Rouge its not the employees problem. They will not be making the capital gain the investor will, so they should not bear the risk.

I really can't see a problem though. If any teams are foolish enough to sign on for this then thats their deal. If SP and the rest can get their thing on TV and turn a profit, and everyone involved gets something they want out of it more power to them.

Just like above...everyone will know its fake, but if it entertains then isn't it accomplishing its goal?

Lohman446
04-28-2006, 06:08 PM
These are not employees of a company though. They are independent contractors whose profit is dependent on the profitability of the whole. Do I find it dirty that SP would make a stand alone event seperate from the NXL? Yeh, but I can see the reasoning behind it and even the justifications for it

RogueFactor
04-28-2006, 06:16 PM
They are independent contractors whose profit is dependent on the profitability of the whole.

Thats just not true. Independent Contractors are not paid dependent on the profitability of the whole. As youve stated, they are independent, and not part of the whole you speak of :eek:

Since you were previously unaware that leagues often operate at a loss, here are some links for you to read:


Show me where the NFL or MLB are working at a loss? Though I have never heard MLB or the NFL mention working at a loss.

MLB-2002
http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/0808/1415598.html
“As of June, given where payrolls ended up and attendance being down more than five percent, net operating losses will be over $450 million ”

MLB - 2001
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/12/06/sports/main320297.shtml
"Baseball's operating loss was $232 million this year, including a major league-leading $52.9 million by the Toronto Blue Jays."

NHL - 2003
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1733664
"Painting a gloomy financial picture that could lead to a lockout, the NHL released a report Thursday that its 30 teams combined for $272.6 million in operating losses last season."
" In addition, the league released figures to The Associated Press that show 10 consecutive seasons of operating losses totaling $1.544 billion on operating revenue of $12.98 billion."


The NFL as a league may operate at a loss (though I question that ) but the individual players / owners are not. The only reason they may show a leage loss is for tax structure reasons.

Yankees, 2004 -
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=2415834
"Forbes estimated the Yankees had a $50 million operating loss before interest, income taxes, depreciation and amortization."

8 MLB Teams - 2004
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2002/0415/092add2.html

NBA - 2006
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=sbd.preview&storyId=SBD2006041114
"NBA Franchise Notes: Nets Post $24M Operating Loss"

Packers, 2000
http://www2.jsonline.com/packer/news/may00/pack28052700.asp
"The Green Bay Packers had an operating loss of $419,000 last year, the first time the franchise has reported such a loss in more than 10 years."



The only reason they may show a leage loss is for tax structure reasons.

There is a second reason, which you have neglected to recognize.....that they actually had a loss :spit_take

Resurection
04-28-2006, 06:29 PM
Please don't lose sight of the fact that there is a big difference between 'Not Enough Money' and 'Operating Loss'.

Net Operating Loss
A net operating loss (NOL) occurs when your deductions are more than your income for the year. A loss from operating a business is the most common reason for an NOL. An NOL can be carried back to previous years and carried forward to future years to offset income. MSN (http://moneycentral.msn.com/taxes/glossary/glossary.asp?TermID=220)

My point actually is the difference between 'Debt' and 'Deficit'. As in deficit is what happens when the expenses are more than the income for a given period. The amount of difference becomes debt if there are no cash stores available.

Some major league sports franchises have had NOL during a single year or over a short period of time, but they in no way are not making money. They are just making less than expected for a given period. Now, with the NHL, NFL, etc. the owners blamed this shortage of profitability on the rising salaries of the players. The players blamed this on the lack of effort by the owners to budget properly.

The truth is that salaries and free agency are a devilish downward sprial that took each league one by one out of control.

As for how all of this applies to Paintball, it doesn't because what paintball players lack that all leagues have is a formal union. Without that there is no power in the hands of the players and there never will be. As long as the producers of product have all the power, SP and others will be in total control of the game. Which in reality is a business and not a game at all.

So if the pro teams and other players think this situation sucks, they only have one real option. Gain control over their chosen activity and exert real muscle.

In the end, players will always be at the whim of the promoter because he is the only one taking real risk with puttin gon events. He leverages the potential sales of crowds to draw in sponsors, and the begs sponsors to come in for prizes and such to draw in the players and crowds. The first time either side decides to call bluff, its over for that promoter.

hitech
04-28-2006, 06:32 PM
There isnt a business model I can think of where the "employees" must assume the risk of the owners loss.


EXACTLY. That is the risk the owners take. And since when did ANY business expect to recoup ALL it's investment BEFORE paying salaries?

nippinout
04-28-2006, 06:33 PM
It's amazing how so many people are still thinking that the common American has any interest in watching paintball.

hitech
04-28-2006, 06:35 PM
Looks like Smart Parts is going the way of the WWF/WWE...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

The only sad part is how close to the truth that is...

hitech
04-28-2006, 06:37 PM
Show me where the NFL or MLB are working at a loss?

I'd be willing to bet that when they first started the league(s) they had a hard time turning a profit.

nippinout
04-28-2006, 06:42 PM
You don't win friends with salad.

You also don't win friends by taking a bigger slice of the pie.

Resurection
04-28-2006, 06:43 PM
I updated my earlier post (http://www.automags.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2141432&postcount=24). I had to clarify what I was saying.

Lohman446
04-28-2006, 06:56 PM
I'd be willing to bet that when they first started the league(s) they had a hard time turning a profit.

Id also be willing to bet they tried several different ways to make it profitable.

Rudz
04-28-2006, 07:15 PM
we told ya smart parts was the devil..they sold there souls to the devil now they will suffer in there own misery..poor poor sp sponosred teams..thats what they get....but honestly how do they expect to take in all that money before anything even happens..for all they know there new league will be a flop..then what..the investors divide what the earned and the players and teams get nothing..the original deal they had with dick clark seemed alot better, because the players would get a salary and dick clark got his...

Beemer
04-30-2006, 12:41 AM
You don't win friends with salad.

You also don't win friends by taking a bigger slice of the pie.

They dont want friends, they just want ALL the pie.

Beemer
05-08-2006, 02:47 AM
I got last and get the up. :ninja:

Rogue made this thread, 4/28 from PBN and it was Nuked at light speed. Well less then ten hours anyway cause I saw it.

It goes here 5/4 six days later, http://www.paintballstar.com/pn/modules.php?op=modload&name=PagEd&file=index&topictoview=58

and back here 5/5, to funny, http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1530227

and I bring this thread back from the thrid page here. :ninja:

Did this stay up on other forums in that time frame?

In reply to myself from my last post in this thread.


This was our Partners & our Legal Council who are now saying they are our partners but now taking on a another role but actually have cut themselves into a larger piece of the pie!

Hmm I want more friends and only part of the Pie.

Darn wheres the pie thread when ya need it :rofl:

Peace Out

____________

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/AoIL.gif

Grey Goose
05-09-2006, 08:05 AM
I've always wished paintball had a real league. This is the only sport I've ever played that was entirely controlled by the manufacturers. That is also the reason I quit playing seriously.

The NFL had large financial problems, espcially in the NFL/AFL years. Rozelle saved their a$$e$.

Ratt
05-09-2006, 10:59 AM
This is madness. Why is it that when the issue of screwing everyone over in order to make more money comes up, the two words "Smart" and "Parts" are always thrown in there somewhere? I, personally, am fed up with SP, and I think they deserve to burn in hell. I swear...I will NEVER do anything or buy anything that will mean putting more of my money in their pocket.

Lohman446
05-09-2006, 11:32 AM
This is madness. Why is it that when the issue of screwing everyone over in order to make more money comes up, the two words "Smart" and "Parts" are always thrown in there somewhere? I, personally, am fed up with SP, and I think they deserve to burn in hell. I swear...I will NEVER do anything or buy anything that will mean putting more of my money in their pocket.

Because of people who have no clue about the events that went on taking the simplistic one sided view of placing all fault for something they dont like on SP?

magman007
05-09-2006, 01:23 PM
lohman you cant deny, they just arent very nice people. Paintball is not used to the corporate world, paintball is used to everyone helping eachother out being actual friends, not just businessmen. The sueing of other companies was bad enough, and boiled alot of blood, because people are protective of their brand. Now they are doing this. Everyone already has a sour taste in their mouths, and this is just more of it.

Lohman446
05-09-2006, 01:37 PM
lohman you cant deny, they just arent very nice people. Paintball is not used to the corporate world, paintball is used to everyone helping eachother out being actual friends, not just businessmen. The sueing of other companies was bad enough, and boiled alot of blood, because people are protective of their brand. Now they are doing this. Everyone already has a sour taste in their mouths, and this is just more of it.

Ehh... On the face of it, with the information that has been made available I have to agree that it does not look nice. That being said nice and business on that level don't normally go together. One also has to consider the concept of "two sides to every story" and you are getting one.

GT
05-09-2006, 06:56 PM
That being said nice and business on that level don't normally go together.


You dont have to be evil to do good buisness. There are tons of rich nice guys out there.


Now because of this new “Circumstance” this was no longer possible! We told them that it would take somewhere between 10.3 Million to 13.3 Million dollars or Revenue befor any money would reach the players.

Wait a sec! We are only talking about 13 mil for players? What does it cost to run the whole league? 15-20 mil? That is probally chump change for the top 3-4 pb companies. Something in this story doesnt sound right.

Grey Goose
05-09-2006, 07:18 PM
Paintball is a lot like the gas & energy business was 5-6 years ago. All the companies are trying to figure out how to lock up the largest market share and be the "face" of paintball. Instead, all they're doing is sh*tting on the players. I still find the profit margin in paintball gear absurd, on the reasons I used to be mr. trade.

Lohman446
05-09-2006, 07:57 PM
Paintball is a lot like the gas & energy business was 5-6 years ago. All the companies are trying to figure out how to lock up the largest market share and be the "face" of paintball. Instead, all they're doing is sh*tting on the players. I still find the profit margin in paintball gear absurd, on the reasons I used to be mr. trade.

Profit margins where? At the manufacturer level sure... at the store level, not so great

coyote
05-09-2006, 08:18 PM
Clarification for Lohman 446

NFL and MLB players are in fact employees of the league.

Their are bound first and foremost by a collective bargaining agreement. All player and owners are bond by the CBA.

These leagues have teams that are in fact company franchises. Within the framework of the CBA player agree to work for these franchises, that is where their individual contracts exist.

Pro sports sre unique in the fact that they have a CBA, and then individual compensitory contracts.

p8ntball72
05-09-2006, 08:18 PM
The glory days of making 200+ profit on a marker are over.

Lohman446
05-09-2006, 08:24 PM
Clarification for Lohman 446

NFL and MLB players are in fact employees of the league.

Their are bound first and foremost by a collective bargaining agreement. All player and owners are bond by the CBA.

These leagues have teams that are in fact company franchises. Within the framework of the CBA player agree to work for these franchises, that is where their individual contracts exist.

Pro sports sre unique in the fact that they have a CBA, and then individual compensitory contracts.

Are they employees of the league? With there salaries paid by the individual teams? I'm not saying your wrong, it just throws me some. But owners seldom go beyond the CBA and individual contract requirements. Perhaps these players (paintball) should get something more binding before playing? Of course then they could probably be replaced - the fun of free market labor.

Tyger
05-09-2006, 09:19 PM
Welcome to big buisness.

afortuna
05-10-2006, 12:21 AM
Take out the emotion of business for a minute. Given what little information given on this thread, it looks like SP made a great deal. I'd guess the whole idea wasn't theirs to start with. I'd go back to the groups trying to fill-in for Dick Clark Productions.

Hey, they want to form a league. A league in which they get paid as well. The only way you can have a league, is to ensure you have teams at a determined minimum caliber to participate. I'd guess they went to SP and made them a deal they couldn't refuse. They bought/brought-in their needed teams. They are forcing the tournament industry in a new direction. Would you give credibility to a televised tournament if you knew some of the better teams weren't participating? Nope. So and so won only because XSV wasn't playing...or so forth.

Second, thing to look at...always the $$$. If you don't have $40 for paint, you don't play. That should be at a level in which most on this board can relate. If a monetary agreement was not in the least worked out, why again would the production guys be asking for so much money? They wouldn't be asking for the money if it wasn't there or if they didn't know it would be available. I don't necessarily agree with the second $800,000 hit, but that's what negotiation is all about. Ask for something and see what you can get.

Let's equate this to mid-major collegiate football. The idea is to get on TV as much as physically possible, even if it means operating in less-than-ideal situations or at a loss for a while. You have to get on TV to get recognized. You have to spend the time on TV to promote your team/sport. Those mid-major teams that get on TV usually do better than those that don't. Exposure rules.

Go Dogs!!!