airgun designs website

[deadeye9]

So I typed in www.airgundesigns.com instead of www.airgun.com.

Interesting outcome.

[SummaryJudgement]

:confused:

[AutomagRT1483]

National...pfft :rolleyes:

[buzzboy]

well thats gay. Isn't that infringement somehow or another.

[BerSerK]

looks legit from the whois info :


Registrant:
National Paintball Supply
570 Mantua Boulevard
Sewell, NJ 08080
US

Domain Name: AIRGUNDESIGNS.COM

Administrative Contact :
Amadei, Kim
kim@888paintball.com
570 Mantua Blvd
sewell, NJ 08080
US
Phone: 888-888-8788
Fax: 1-609-555-1212

but the name airgun designs must be registered...strange

[robnix]

well thats gay. Isn't that infringement somehow or another.

There is precedent that if you take someone elses registered trade name for your own use as a domian name, the original owner can claim it and get it back for themselves.

http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/objectID/60EC3491-B4B5-4A98-BB6E6632A2FA0CB2/111/228/195/ART/

Cybersquatting means registering, selling or using a domain name with the intent of profiting from the goodwill of someone else's trademark. It generally refers to the practice of buying up domain names that use the names of existing businesses with the intent to sell the names for a profit to those businesses.

What You Can Do to Fight a Cybersquatter

A victim of cybersquatting in the United States can now sue under the provisions of the Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act (ACPA) or can fight the cybersquatter using an international arbitration system created by the Internet Corporation of Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN). The ACPA defines cybersquatting as registering, trafficking in or using a domain name with the intent to profit in bad faith from the goodwill of a trademark belonging to someone else. The ICANN arbitration system is considered by trademark experts to be faster and less expensive than suing under the ACPA, and the procedure does not require an attorney.

[deadeye9]

The obvious conclusion:

National Paintball owns Airgun Designs.

[Big'n slo]

The obvious conclusion:

National Paintball owns Airgun Designs.

Obviously


Whats up DE9?
:D

[peewee]

The obvious conclusion:

National Paintball owns Airgun Designs.

:cool: You guys havent figured it out yet??? Tom ownes national....... :D But its a secret.

[deadeye9]

Whats up DE9?
:D

New job ... Austin, TX. I miss NJ paintball, alot.

[Big'n slo]

New job ... Austin, TX. I miss NJ paintball, alot.

Well I guess a going away game is out then huh?

Good luck down there.

:cheers:

[RapidTransit]

Did this just happen recently because last time I did that I think it came up as not registered

[Skeeter]

Sorry to bring up an ancient thread, but...

Just found this myself (typed in the full airgundesigns.com) while looking up prices for parts... Did a fourm search to see if this has been discussed before.

Disgusting.

Just another reason to hate NPS. A-holes. We, as a field and full service pro shop, have tried to boycot them, and it is working surprisingly well. Very few orders from them this past year. Sometimes, they are the only source of parts that we need, so we have to do business with them now and then. Always leads to a bad aftertaste.

Anyone have a count on how many different retail web sites NPS owns? It is nice to know that they (NPS) support their clients (paintball stores/fields/pro-shops), by selling directly to the end users at the same or lower prices.

AGD needs to re-hijack the domain name back to its proper home. BTW, AGD.com is unregistered. AGD could hijack some permutation of the NPS domain name and do an even trade. Hostage for hostage, but you still hate to negotiate with terrorists!

[grEnAlEins]

after re-reading this thread I vote sticky, not that my vote matters :tard:

[Chronobreak]

yeah....

least natl can do is sell mags... :tard:

mags=dead warehouse space

[Skeeter]

yeah....

least natl can do is sell mags... :tard:

mags=dead warehouse space


Not in my store... We sell a good number & actually had 2 X-Mags & 2 E-Mags running on the field today. Lots of classics/RT-Pros/Tac-1s as well.

We sell them 'cause they work & don't come back for service under our lifetime warranty. They may be dead warehouse space at the NPS since they prefer to move tons of crap instead of something that works. Ever try to return a broken "anything" to NPS? They can sell all of the Silver Bullets, BT & 32 Degrees stuff that they want. We don't.

[warbeak2099]

Hey guess what, NPS used to distribute for AGD. And manike, the guy who designed the Xmag has worked with Empire/Invert/NPS to create the Mini marker, a revolutionary and supposedly very reliable gun. So AGD does have ties to NPS. You boycotting them is just stupid.

[FlawleZ]

Hey guess what, NPS used to distribute for AGD. And manike, the guy who designed the Xmag has worked with Empire/Invert/NPS to create the Mini marker, a revolutionary and supposedly very reliable gun. So AGD does have ties to NPS. You boycotting them is just stupid.

Interesting to know that Manike was behind the design of the Mini. I wonder how much weight his input had?

[warbeak2099]

Interesting to know that Manike was behind the design of the Mini. I wonder how much weight his input had?

He was not head designer, but he was involved in refining its design, making it more reliable and better, and he was the one who took the thing on a six month test run to see if it could really stand up to abuse. He has said time and again that it is a solid little gun. Over the course of 100k shots, all they had to do was oil/grease it twice. So, I wouldn't be going and saying everything from NPS is crap. It also has no eye wires to crimp which is cool. Oh, and it uses the HES trigger system like on the Emag. Hey, manike is a good guy, I trust him. And when he says that NPS has been great to work with, I know he isn't BS'ing us so he can make more money.

[Skeeter]

This was not a flame on Manike or the entire NPS operation. We still have to buy stuff from them every now and then. We just use NPS as a last resort. NPS does not currently distribute AGD products, so I don't feel any loyalty to them.

I do, however, have issues with the business model that NPS follows. When an NPS supporter states that AGD products create dead warehouse space, I am going to jump to the defense of AGD every time.

[warbeak2099]

In this market they do. It isn't in NPS's best interests to distribute a niche product. Not because the product is bad, but because it is a niche product. You don't see PBL distributing AGD or Palmers stuff do you? No, no distributor will carry it. They sell directly to the retailer. It in no way means that NPS looks down on AGD, they've just run the numbers and they realize that AGD wasn't making them any money.

[Skeeter]

In this market they do. It isn't in NPS's best interests to distribute a niche product. Not because the product is bad, but because it is a niche product. You don't see PBL distributing AGD or Palmers stuff do you? No, no distributor will carry it. They sell directly to the retailer. It in no way means that NPS looks down on AGD, they've just run the numbers and they realize that AGD wasn't making them any money.


That is one of the issues I have with them (along with hijacking a URL that should belong to AGD). They would prefer to sell inferior stuff at a high margin (while refusing returns on their inferior stuff) over quality stuff at a reasonable profit margin. It may be best for them, but it is definately not in the best interest of the sport. Call me old school, but I still put the players first.

BTW, Mags are NOT a "niche" product. We sell almost as many Mags as anything else & we sell lots of stuff. You can sell anything you want, if you present it properly. I shoot a Mag as my primary (as just one of my 13 markers), and my store workers shoot Mags as well. Our field is probably 25-40% Mag shooters, on an average Saturday of 200-300 players. We sell them because they work, and are the best value for many of our players.

If I just wanted to fill my pockets and take an early retirement, I would sell Lightning Cockers, Silver Bullets, Wraths, Mongeese (sp?) or any shiny stacked tube blow back POS I could find. Of course, I would not take returns or give refunds, EVER.

Which approach is best for the players and the sport?

[mobsterboy]

BTW, Mags are NOT a "niche" product here .

fixed.
just because they aren't around you, does not mean they aren't everywhere. Bad analogy, I know, but mags have gone the way of Phantoms, snipers, novas, anything palmers, any small company that doesnt sponsor a team for some major tournament, but quite often this weeds out the bad companies from the good. tomorrow, SP could come out with a POS gun that has a 3 to 1 ratio of three guns being broken to one shooting straight out of the box, but no one cares because SP already has their reputation and clientelle list built (wait a minute!!! they already did that. Gay shockers and ions) but a company like AGD comes along, and their markers are amazing, they hardly ever need work on them, and if it was just a stock lvl 7 bolt and standard on/off, the thing could sit in mud for a year, be soaked in water, hoses changed out, a little oil and voila, the gun still shoots like a charm, and its got a nice complexion due to the mud mask...

There's a NPS warehouse near me....and on that note, there will be a NIB f/s thread coming up, but dont expect serial numbers on the guns :ninja:

[Chronobreak]

dont forget nps now apparently owns/runs AGD E

[Geoff Call]

I think it's pretty pathetic how NPS can buy up all of these smaller companies and innovators of the sport and turn their once great products and ideas into total crap. NPS' return policy is a joke and their products are cheap and unreliable. If they need a new idea, they'll buy a company and take their ideas. When I see something beneficial or generous come from them, hell will freeze over, (the heat will stop working at NPS HQ). Sleezy.

If SP doesn't sue you, NPS will buy you.

I'm almost ashamed to be involved with an industry that behaves like that.

I don't really care who I offend.

Geoff Call

[AGD-OfficeGal]

There is precedent that if you take someone elses registered trade name for your own use as a domian name, the original owner can claim it and get it back for themselves.

http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/objectID/60EC3491-B4B5-4A98-BB6E6632A2FA0CB2/111/228/195/ART/

Cybersquatting means registering, selling or using a domain name with the intent of profiting from the goodwill of someone else's trademark. It generally refers to the practice of buying up domain names that use the names of existing businesses with the intent to sell the names for a profit to those businesses.

What You Can Do to Fight a Cybersquatter

A victim of cybersquatting in the United States can now sue under the provisions of the Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act (ACPA) or can fight the cybersquatter using an international arbitration system created by the Internet Corporation of Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN). The ACPA defines cybersquatting as registering, trafficking in or using a domain name with the intent to profit in bad faith from the goodwill of a trademark belonging to someone else. The ICANN arbitration system is considered by trademark experts to be faster and less expensive than suing under the ACPA, and the procedure does not require an attorney.

NPS has owned this domain since before I started working at AGD. Tom didn't feel it was worth pursuing, and my guess is, any claim AGD might have had for cybersquatting has been cancelled out by AGD's allowing NPS to hold the domain unchallenged for so long. I got into something similar with my own company's domain name. Another company sent a letter demanding I change it because of similarity to their pre-existing domain. My lawyer replied No with a few (good) reasons. Several years passed and suddenly they sent me another demand letter. My lawyer said well, the answer is still no, especially since you've allowed all this time to go by and your business obviously hasn't been hurt and my client (me) has now owned and operated the domain for 8 years. No further demands to date.

Marcia
AGD-USA

[Ole Unka Phil]

Hey Marcia. Long time no see.... miss ya


Well... come to think of it, I never have seen Gino and Tom in the same place at the same time... :confused:

[Cow hunter]

NPS has owned this domain since before I started working at AGD. Tom didn't feel it was worth pursuing, and my guess is, any claim AGD might have had for cybersquatting has been cancelled out by AGD's allowing NPS to hold the domain unchallenged for so long. I got into something similar with my own company's domain name. Another company sent a letter demanding I change it because of similarity to their pre-existing domain. My lawyer replied No with a few (good) reasons. Several years passed and suddenly they sent me another demand letter. My lawyer said well, the answer is still no, especially since you've allowed all this time to go by and your business obviously hasn't been hurt and my client (me) has now owned and operated the domain for 8 years. No further demands to date.

Marcia
AGD-USA
cant he say it was just recently called to his attention?


but hes probably right, would there be any benefit? probably not, but who knows...

[jenarelJAM]

If I just wanted to fill my pockets and take an early retirement, I would sell Lightning Cockers, Silver Bullets, Wraths, Mongeese (sp?)

I believe the plural of Mongoose is Mongooses :dance:
/sorry

[warbeak2099]

That is one of the issues I have with them (along with hijacking a URL that should belong to AGD). They would prefer to sell inferior stuff at a high margin (while refusing returns on their inferior stuff) over quality stuff at a reasonable profit margin. It may be best for them, but it is definately not in the best interest of the sport. Call me old school, but I still put the players first.

BTW, Mags are NOT a "niche" product. We sell almost as many Mags as anything else & we sell lots of stuff. You can sell anything you want, if you present it properly. I shoot a Mag as my primary (as just one of my 13 markers), and my store workers shoot Mags as well. Our field is probably 25-40% Mag shooters, on an average Saturday of 200-300 players. We sell them because they work, and are the best value for many of our players.

If I just wanted to fill my pockets and take an early retirement, I would sell Lightning Cockers, Silver Bullets, Wraths, Mongeese (sp?) or any shiny stacked tube blow back POS I could find. Of course, I would not take returns or give refunds, EVER.

Which approach is best for the players and the sport?

First of all, you're experience is an oddity. Your area is the minority, most all over AGD is a niche company. It is not as popular as other products.

NPS has crappy customer service? Geez, all of these Wrath owners keep raving about it. If their board ever broke NPS would send them a new one right away. There have been reports of guys whose guns have been beat to hell, past repair. NPS simply gave them new Wraths and took the old ones. Nope, not sponsored either.

I think there are good points on either side of the argument. But to say that NPS is just some evil company that is ruining paintball is absolutely stupid and close minded. They have facilitated the incredible growth we have seen all over the world in our sport. But no, let's focus on the fact that they happen to distribute some lower end guns.

So what? Just because they have some low ends in their catalogue doesn't mean they are a crappy company. How about Kingman, Tippmann, etc? Are they bad just because they sell low end guns? Jesus, a stacked tube is automatically a POS. Well guess what? A lot of noobs can't afford a brand new or even used mag. So they go for something that will allow them to get into our sport. Like a Mongoose or a Silver Bullet. Oh but I guess the noobs don't matter. Let's just cater to the higher end market and forget about kids who can't afford to start out with a $500 RT ULE.

So yea thanks for being a miserable elitist without any common sense or realistic view of the real world and real business. Get real man, NPS isn't some evil empire bent on destroying paintball. Nor have their business practices done so inadvertantly. You are just as bad as the SP/DYE/PE/AGD/etc fanbois who bash anything not made by their favorite company and who make up a whole lot about the company that they see as the big evil conglomo. Your ridiculous claims are not based on fact and you are just plain making things up. NPS is a great company, not without faults, but no one is without faults, even AGD. The Invert Mini coming out under NPS looks like a top notch gun for a great price. It's reliable, consistant, efficient, fast, and easy to maintain. And our very own Manike helped design it. So quick your basically untruthful belly-aching. You're just being a fanboi loser.

[Skeeter]

fixed.
just because they aren't around you, does not mean they aren't everywhere. Bad analogy, I know, but mags have gone the way of Phantoms...

Very cool. We sell TONS of Phantoms. I take that as a compliment. As of this September, we are #7 WORLDWIDE (this year, anyway) in Phantom sales!!! Last year, we were #9, IIRC.

I would much rather have a diverse batch of intelligent players shooting quality hardware (Mags, Phantoms, 'trixes, some Tippmanns, SS-25s, Egos, E-Teks, Shockers...) than a batch of 'bots or lemmings shooting Ions. Yes, we do allow Ions (we even sell a few) at our field, but for the most part, we encourage our players to purchase hardware that we respect and/or trust. We sell a full range of hardware, but we don't cater to the bottom feeders. NPS (and their 50+ web sites) can have them, unless the customer wants an Ego or E-tek, then we get them...

[Skeeter]

NPS has crappy customer service? Geez, all of these Wrath owners keep raving about it. If their board ever broke NPS would send them a new one right away. There have been reports of guys whose guns have been beat to hell, past repair. NPS simply gave them new Wraths and took the old ones. Nope, not sponsored either.


Then, why won't they replace or repair the 3-4 Wraths (out of the 8-10 total) that we mistakenly purchased from them in 2005? As a $250-300K per year customer (prior to 2006, that is), you would think they would make an effort to support us. Call Greg & get the numbers from HIM, if you doubt my facts.

EVERY time (and we didn't send that many returns) we sent something back, they would make us jump through hoops to get an RA & then usually refuse to repair or replace the hardware when they received it. On several occasions, they just kept the broken hardware (many Reloader-Bs, among others), with no replacement, repair, or even a return of the broken stuff, back to us. This is the primary reason we order from NPS, only as a last resort.

Call me an "elitist" or "fanboi" if you want. I am definitely a "fanboi" of any company that produces a quality product at a reasonable price and supports their customers, and that includes Tippmann as well.

[athomas]

Your area is the minority, most all over AGD is a niche company. It is not as popular as other products.

AGD is definately a niche company. The niche is quality. :cheers:

AGD is recognized in my area as well. A lot of guys like the design and want one, but can't justify the cost for a mechanical marker. In the electro world, they opt for others as well due again to cost vs features. That being said, ADG is definately recognized as a major company in my area, especially in the past couple of years. Its like a rebirth. Now would be a great time for AGD to market a new product.

[Geoff Call]

First of all, lets not attack each other. Nobody ever set out to attack anybody here personally. Also, your paintball experience will never ever ever exceed that of Skeeter, don't argue it, just accept it.


NPS has crappy customer service? Geez, all of these Wrath owners keep raving about it. If their board ever broke NPS would send them a new one right away. There have been reports of guys whose guns have been beat to hell, past repair. NPS simply gave them new Wraths and took the old ones. Nope, not sponsored either.

Second you aren't looking at this from a business standpoint. If you are selling products from a company, that are continuously breaking due to quality issues, and that same company makes you jump through hoops to send said marker/product back for replacement/repair/refund, it's a waste of your time and money to deal with this task. Sadly the shipping is worth more than the product you're shipping back. Have you as a paintball store owner tried to send products back to NPS? What's that? Didn't think so. Shut up. Marinate on that for a minute.

Sure there is a need for lower end markers, but where do you draw the line? What does it make your company look like when ever gun you sell comes back broken every week? Does it make you look like you know what you're doing/selling or does it make you look like a sleezeball. I'd rather kids be out on the field playing, than in the shop trying to get their gun fixed. And if you knew jack about how a field/store is run you'd understand there is no great margin to be made in paintball equipment anyhow.


They have facilitated the incredible growth we have seen all over the world in our sport.

What? You mean they are personally responsible for all the cheap twin tube electro blasters that come into the shop every weekend to be repaired? Thats not growth, that's regression. That hinders players from playing. That is the goal of paintball right?

You dare compare Kingman to Tippmann as well. There is no way you can compare a company whose markers change every year in design, parts and compatibility to a company who's relative design and unparalleled(except by AGD) reliability. What thread are spyder hoses anyway? That's just stupid. I'd shoot a Tippmann any day over any ANY twin tube blowback on earth, mainly for the simple fact that when I air it up and go to play, it will work, period. And while I'm thinking about it, how many spyders are coming out of the box these days at an unreasonably unsafe velocity? The kids/parents that buy these markers haven't a clue about it and go out to their backyard to play with them. yeesh!


So yea thanks for being a miserable elitist without any common sense or realistic view of the real world and real business. Get real man, NPS isn't some evil empire bent on destroying paintball.

I'm sure they aren't bent on destroying paintball. It makes them a TON of money. I seriously doubt you know what running a successful business is like at this stage in your life either. You have that money making mentality instead of the making customers happy and maybe turning profit at the same time. Sometimes life isn't all about making money dude.

And we're not elitists, we're perfectionists. That's why we shoot Mags... and Phantoms:) (and markers from tippmann, and dye, and smart parts, and eclipse, and ans!)

[bluemidget123]

I'd shoot a Tippmann any day over any ANY twin tube blowback on earth, mainly for the simple fact that when I air it up and go to play, it will work, period.[/QUTOE] this is true. The twin tube blowbacks that NPS makes are just not of very high quality. It would be different if they were made with good quality parts, but they're not, NPS woudl rather get the profit from using the lesser priced, lesser quality parts and materials than make a better marker which doesn't break all the time because they won't make as much money.

[QUOTE=Geoff Call]And we're not elitists, we're perfectionists. That's why we shoot Mags... and Phantoms:) (and markers from tippmann, and dye, and smart parts, and eclipse, and ans!) and don't forget all the snipers we have out at the field. many times it's upward of 20% of the players...

Skeeter has a legitamate complaint about NPS. Why would a company purposely go through the hassel of making a field owner's life harder by not refunding/repairing the returns they send? Why would they make it near impossible for the field owners who sell their products and make them money to get good customer service? It's because they don't care. They think that just because they control such a large part of the market and such a huge amount of the parts/equipment that players desire, they can walk all over everyone.