Spool vs. poppet

[punkncat]

I got in a dicussion with a fellow the other day concering opinions on one valve design vs. the other. I am going to say little in order to see if the discussion follows the same path as ours did.

So to keep it sweet, which valve is better? Explain why you think so.

[Steelrat]

I got in a dicussion with a fellow the other day concering opinions on one valve design vs. the other. I am going to say little in order to see if the discussion follows the same path as ours did.

So to keep it sweet, which valve is better? Explain why you think so.

I prefer poppet because spools tend to have poor efficiency.

[minimag03]

Poppit for me. If the bolt starts leaking on a spool valve marker you can be there awhile trying to figure out which one it is. Plus they seem to require more greasing than popits.

[SpitFire1299]

I prefer poppet because spools tend to have poor efficiency.
Please back this up for us all. :)

There are many different versions of poppet and spool. I like spool a lot though.

[ojhspyro89]

I like spool. There are less moving parts.

Im referring to a freestyle, im not a fan of Shockers.

In a freestyle you basically have like 2 parts you need to lube, and even then itll last a few cases beforeyou need to lube again.

They get great effeciency, are quiet, and low kick...

[Steelrat]

Please back this up for us all. :)



No.

[minimag03]

No.
:dance:

[WenULiVeUdiE]

I see the poppet valvetrain as an extremely simple, yet extremely effectice solution to a challenge. There are so many different ways to adjust every aspect of its operation; however, this can be considered a negative aspect of the design. Poppet valvetrains leave areas for improvement. Curently, the large area would be a balanced valve, ala the Lucky valve. There are also an extreme amount ways to customize or change the design. Take for example the 'Cocker. There is an extremely large amount of varations of the 'Cocker.

Now take the spool valve-
Although it does shoot smoothly, there are larger problems that come into view. The first problem would be efficiency. It has been my perception that nearly every spool valve marker that is released has an inefficient valvetrain. The manufacturers can never get it right. However, it is always the aftermarket that brings the expensive, but very effective valvetrains to the market. The second problem with spool valvetrains would be reliability. It is also my perception that spool valves heaily rely on the grease they have applied, which may correspond to the weather. The large amount of O-rings is just...whacky, silly and foolish. It just appears to be too easy to damage an o-ring and thus impair the proper function of the marker.

I'll break it down like this:
If you are a player who does all their own maintenance and does not worry to much about "smoothness", then poppet valves are for you.
If you are a player who prefers to do no maintenance or does not mind doing it alot and does care about the "smoothness" factor and is willing to buy a back-up, then a spool valve is for you.

Those are beliefs/perceptions. Some of my opinions are based on slightly flawed view points and some bias. I have not stated everything as clearly as possible.


-Andrew

[vonort]

Poppit = Timmy: Better gas effeceincy. My timmy gets about 2000 or so rounds out of a 68/4500 fill. Never fully tested it. But I know it gets at least that.


Spool = Freestyle: Less movement of the gun, poor effeceincy. I had an '04 FS and if it got 1000 shots out of a 68/4500 I was lucky. I've heard with the HE bolt you might pick up around another 100 or 200 shots. Still very poor effeciency.


Depends on what you are using the gun for. Most speedball games I don't need to be able to shoot that much. So if you want to fill your tank after every game or two then Spool is fine. But if your in an area where air is limited. (bandit feilds that I play) Then I would prefer a poppit. Actually when I play bandit I use my Palmer Blazer for the effeciency.

This is just based off of the guns that I have used in these categories. If others have different numbers.. oh well. This is what I have seen.

[thefool]

y would spools have worse efficiance i never got that

[b e n]

Spool>Popet Just shoot a matrix and you will know why :eek:

[punkncat]

y would spools have worse efficiance i never got that

I may start something by saying this....

Spool valves generally run at a lower pressure which means they use a higher volume of air at the low pressure to get velocity. Poppet valves generally run at a higher pressure but lower volume.

The respective benefits/drawbacks to that subject is whole other thing?

[SpitFire1299]

I may start something by saying this....

Spool valves generally run at a lower pressure which means they use a higher volume of air at the low pressure to get velocity. Poppet valves generally run at a higher pressure but lower volume.

The respective benefits/drawbacks to that subject is whole other thing?
Agreed.

So 1500 shots off a 68/45 means bad efficiency? :tard: :confused:

[punkncat]

Agreed.

So 1500 shots off a 68/45 means bad efficiency? :tard: :confused:

I absolutely meant that statement as a generalization.

[FinchMan]

Efficiency may have something to do with draining a burst chamber instead of using one short burst of high pressure air:

With the spool valve burst chamber you get the initial blast of air that tapers off to nothing. The pressure decreases as soon as the valve opens. I think this doesn't work well (efficiently) to fire paintballs.

With poppet valves you have a much more square pressure pattern. The valve opens the air flows through with a constant pressure, the valve closes, and only the area between the valve and the bolt tapers down to atmospheric pressure. The extra air that vents after the high pressure push of air probably accounts for a large amount of efficiency.



Another point to consider is the dead space between the valve and the bolt tip. In inline spool valve guns this dead space is much greater than stacked tube poppet-based guns.


One last thing is the sheer number of orings that seal moving parts. In spool valves there are quite a few orings creating friction. In some poppet valves there are only one or two dynamic orings. Overcoming the friction of more orings requires extra pressure, which can only mean less efficiency.



As for the other aspects of spool valves: on average there's more maintenance required with spool valves. Spool valve guns can be really small because they are single-tubed. Size/weight, smoother operation, etc... are all pretty much left to personal preference.

[buzzboy]

Spool>Popet Just shoot a matrix and you will know why :eek:
By shooting a matirx I believe just the opposite. The matrix didn't seem right. I don't know what. It did have to do with opperation. I really like the shocker though. It feels quieter and faster in my hands. Maybe because it runs at only one pressure.

[Surestick]

Something else to consider: The gas you shoot.
Personally I feel safer using a poppet valved marker w/CO2 because I can sweetspot the reg so if I get any liquid past the reg & the pressure rises I lose velocity instead of shooting hot. If you get liquid CO2 into the dump chamber on a spool valved marker your velocity will skyrocket.
Less of an issue w/electros because the liquid will probably kill your solenoid but on something like a mag...

I think the balanced poppets if they catch on will have an effect on the feel of poppet valved markers.
Less force required from the hammer means lighter springs, less kick & less force needed to cock the marker so less chance of choping a ball as the forces closing the bolt will be less.