** Potential Superbolt Problem Please Read**

[AGD]

Superbolt owners,

We have just become aware of a potential problem with the current batch of Superbolts. Thanks to posts here and a couple phone calls we think the Superbolt sleeves are .015 too long. That's about half a matchbook cover.

They were made the same over all length as our all stainless bolts but the nose in the stainless sticks out .015 further than the body. When the body is extended this .015 big paint can hang up in the breach.

We are working on a solution to trim them down. The current batch we have in house is being trimmed before shipment. If you have one that is chopping please standby while we sort it out.

If you feel confident you can just sand the face down evenly until you just barely see the sleeve sticking into the breach.

Warp feed and small paint users will probably not see the problem.

Sorry about this, it just slipped by.

AGD

[Russ]

After reading Arand's post, I measured my new superbolt, and it is, in fact, .015" longer than my stock E-Mag bolt (1.855" vs 1.840")

Sooo, I sanded the face down, using emery paper (320, then 400, then 600 grit) The overall length of the superbolt is now 1.84"

But both bolts protrude 1/32" past the edge of the feed hole in the barrel. Is this normal? It's the same with my H/L body.

[Arand]

I guess I'll try to sand that sucker down. Don't have access to a belt sander. Anyone know if delrin is tough to
sand by hand? I'd rather not mess with it if i'm not fully confident that it will come out perfect.

Arand

[AGD]

Yes it should stick out a hair into the breach, that is fine.

DO NOT USE A BELT SANDER!!!!! You will burn off too much!!

HAND SAND to correct length.

AGD

[Xzion]

Well, it doesnt seem to bother my 'mag in the least, but then again, im a warp feed user so at least theres a good reason... im sure mine will work as is untill I need to replace the derlin sleeve :)

Thanx for the heads up Tom :)

Oh, and speaking of replacement derlin sleeves, are they availible yet? and how much will the be approx?

Thanx again :)

[Russ]

I have a piece of steel, ground flat, that I put the emery paper on. Then I pull the bolt across it, and rotate the bolt 90deg or so each time. It only took me a few minutes, but I have a lot of experience doing this kind of stuff.

A table with a glass surface works well, also. Calipers are a must to be sure how much you take off.

[Arand]

Got it!

Hand sand it is. I'll shoot a case through it this weekend and report.

Arand

[DiRTyBuNNy]

I'm tool inept so would it be ok for me to send mine in?

[damageinc54]

I will have to check mine out. I have mine in my EMag. I have chopped a few but I just figured I was out shooting it. I will check mine out and report back. I am a Machinist and I am more than willing to help any of you guys out that need some help with your bolts. You can sand down delrin very easily. Get your hands on a piece of about 400 grit sand paper or some krokus cloth and just sand it evenly.

[LawFox32]

My regular bolt sticks out, but only like the nose of the thing, Is that okay?

Just checking

[PRO_Ski101]

Hey Tom, I ordered my around 2 weeks ago.Were they like this then,Becuase i have experienced som ball breaks but i just figured that i was shooting to fast for my hopper.Also,If I buy a new sleeve will it fix the problem??

[dogEmedic]

Darn it I just got my superbolt and I have the chopping problem, sad to say but me and tools don't get along to well. I hope comes up with a easy fix

Alan

[Dave]

YES!!! I just saw this post and was still posting on the "Major Superbolt Problem" post. Thanks Tom for making an announcement and addressing the issue. Actually, my gun should arrive at the tech dept. of AGD today:D so I should think it wouldn't be a problem for me to get a little sand down on the sleeve or a new sleeve? :)

Again...thank you!

-Dave

[CFD323]

To all you guys who have had problems with your superbolt, are you chopping paint all the time ? I've got a superbolt and have noticed that I'm breaking paint but it doesn't seem to be more than what I broke with the stock bolt, and the breaks are down the barrel, and not where the ball drops down from the powerfeed into the breach/barrel. I've only shot RP Premiums and Diablo Blaze so it's not like I'm shooting small paint only.

[CFD323]

I've also noticed that every once and a while my bolt hangs up and I get the air rushing down the barrel when I first gas up my gun. Could this be caused by the superbolt being too long ? Maybe hanging up on the nubbin ? I've already gone to a shorter powertube spacer and it helped but it still does it occasionally.

[dogEmedic]

Well it seemed like the first shot was fine then chop, cleaned the barrel opened the power feed first one dropped in shot fine then chop again. Repeated the cleaning process same as before but watched the power feed when I pulled the trigger the second paintball only fell halfway into the gun. I didn't have any small paint and had to use big ole brass eagle.
Afterwards I put the old bolt in and shot 20 paintballs as fast as I could with no breaks (impressive for brass eagle)

Alan

[cledford]

AGD/All:

I put my super bolt through the paces this weekend with pretty bad results also. I was chopping so much (like 1 ball per 10 shots) I yanked it back out after 2 games. Replaced it with a long-nose - but kept the plastic nubbins - still chopped like mad. I then went to P nubbins short bolt (should have only changed one variable, but at that point was about ready to throw my gun into a tree like Rob AGD did that day...)

Anyhow, the chopping simmered down after that - so I attributed to the nubbins, not the bolt.

I was running a stock emag with Warp (new battery), with the stock AGD barrel. Started out with super bolt and plastic nubbins that shipped with it, and was shooting brand new Diablo Inferno paint.

I'm planning on shaving down the nubbins a little and trying it again next weekend.

I've "eye balled" the super and regular bolts and they seem very close in length - I'll whip out the calipers tonight to check the actual lengths.

-Calvin

[Russ]

cleford,

try using just one plastic nubbin, if your using 2.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19670

[X-Plosive]

I haven't had any problems yet, infact i haven't chopped a single ball. I was using premium, I don't think I'm going to tinker with it.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Not to take you away from the R&D Table, TK..but i was wondering if you had to come to any conclusions about the Superbolts..I'm a little tool inept and i'd be more than willing to send mine off to the Factory after New Years (gotta give the AGD crew a little new years break) if that's what it will take to get everything all okey-dokey...

[Miscue]

It's cake sanding it by hand, just takes some time is all. I just used 400 grit wet, cuz what I had handy... put the paper on a table, run the bolt on it flush like grating cheese. Rotate constantly to sand evenly... came out good.

[damageinc54]

That will work just fine

[AGD]

Guys,

We trimmed down all the bolts in house so if you have one coming it will be fine. We can trim them here if you send them back. We would like to do them in one big batch so if you can stand by we will give you more details when we figure it out.

AGD

[e1ement5]

AGD/ALL

I took out the my digital caliper and compared the superbbolt to my stock e-mag bolt and they are only different by.001". Is this correct could some of the super bolts be of correct length?

[Arand]

After sanding the bolt down, I no longer chop. The bolt however, breaks 1 in 20 balls. No chops. The breaks occur when the bolt contacts the ball. I've been alternating shooting a hopper with the extended nose bolt, then going with the superbolt. In 2 hoppers, shot at about 8 bps, using the extended nose bolt, I have zero (0) breaks or chops. Using the superbolt, its ball break city. No chops though. Even on slow, single shots, the superbolt is breaking paint.

I noticed the face of the superbolt is quite different from the extended nose, could this be the problem?

Any suggestions are welcome.

[AGD]

Arand,

Please do a bounce test on that paint and are you using the honed superbolt spring for both tests? I need this info, please post here.

Thanks

AGD

[Arand]

AGD,

I am using the honed bolt and plastic nubbins on a stock emag. When I was testing the bolt the other day I was using a mix bag of leftover paint which included Hellfire, Great American and Blaze. I broke the most blaze, followed closely by the Great American, then broke a few hellfire.

Bounce Test of 10 balls:

Great American - Avg 4 bounces
Blaze - Avg 4 bounces
Hellfire - Avg 7 bounces

From reading your post on paint quality, it would seem that the Great American and Blaze are pretty poor quality. I will try the bolt with fresh paint (I'll do the bounce test first) next weekend.

Why do you think it is that with the extended nose, I'm having zero problems with paint breakage? I've shot over 400 rounds in the last couple days, testing, with perfect results using the extended nose stainless bolt. The 300 or so round using the superbolt have had poor results.

On a side note, the plastic nubbins seem to be working great. They accommodate a wide variety of ball sizes without needed adjustment. I'm not having any paint breakage problems with them.

Thanks,

Arand

[AGD]

Arand,

Please post the individual bounce numbers for the paint. I need to see how variable the paint is. I am spending my Christmas vacation working on this problem. It might just be from shoving the ball into the breach, hard to tell right now.

AGD

[Russ]

I'm gonna follow this closely. I played indoors on Thursday night (12-20), and had severe ball breakage with the superbolt/E-Mag/Warp Feed combo.

I'm using the superbolt with my old bolt spring, which has 35,000 or so shots. It's been de-burred, and is smooth. I'm using the same plastic nubbins in the stock barrel, that I got for testing a while back. They have worked well with the stock bolt. I trimmed the superbolt -.015".

The paint I used was ZAP Performance Plus, which averaged .4 (yes, .4! in the bounce test. It dropped right through the barrel (NOTE: I've started a new test in the bounce test thread, see results there for details) Velocity was set at 260fps.

All the paint broke on the bolt face. My son shot 1500+ of the same paint through his GenX-3 'Cocker, with not a single break! I shot maybe 400 PB's, and had so many breaks it was absurd.

The only thing that has changed in my set-up is the addition of the superbolt.

Russ

[AGD]

Russ,

I might want you to glue a piece of foam on the front of your bolt face and try that. I am going in to work now to test bolt speed on the gun dyno.

AGD

[dogEmedic]

her is a little info from me, it's 11pm and so I can't put any paint through my gun without the cops showing up but I did a bounce test.

I used brass eagle (sorry that's all I have right now I need money for gifts).

ball bounce
1-- 1
2-- 1
3-- 4
4-- 2
5-- 2
6-- 6
7-- 2
8-- 1
9-- 3
10-- 1

On sunday I will try to get some good paint and do another bounce test.
I also shaved a little off the superbolt and when I hooked up my hopper to my gun with no barrel and the superbolt installed it fed without any problems, don't know if that helps at all.

Alan

[DrEvil]

I got a superbolt from the online store, I assume it was from the batch that had the .015" differance. Well I played today and no problems. One ball break from my cousin shortstroking the gun. No recoil, no breaks, no jams, no sticks, no problem. I love this thing.

[dogEmedic]

Good morning all I put a few rounds through my gun today and here are my results.

68 automag, chrome intelliframe, ss lapco bigshot, crossfire 68 stub with just over 1000psi left and left over brass eagle paint (see above for bounce test from same batch).

reg bolt - 10 paintballs no breaks at whatever speed I pulled the trigger.

superbolt - 10 paintballs first one was fine second only fell halfway into the gun. It took a little bit of effoert to push it in with a pencil ereaser.

sanded superbolt - I have no tools to see how much I took off but I did a dozen or so swipes on 320 grit sandpaper. Made sure tip was smooth and had same same results as above.

This may sound stupid but to me it seems like the paintballs don't go as far when I use the superbolt, it's like they dropoff much sooner then with the reg bolt.

Hope this helps you a little Tom

Alan

[Dave]

You know, I think there is a prob with just the face of the bolt as well. When my mag + superbolt was chopping, I would take one ball at a time, and roll each one into the breach to make sure they were all the way in there, and still would break a lot. My paint was PMI premium, with a bounce test was between 1-2, pretty poor, with most balls getting zero, actually about half. But a friend shot that same terrible paint today through his spyder he got for Christmas, and didn't break a single ball in over 200-300 rounds. Is it that a mag is just harsher with balls?

-Dave

[Omicron]

i'm pretty sure its just the face of the bolt. that cup type of face is on my sidekick too, i think im gonna put a foamie on the bolt on my sidekick and see how it goes. Tom, if we have breaks like this (not chops) can you send us the longnose type of sleeve? Maybe you should sell them with the longnose type of sleeve and theer won't be as many breaks? my superbolt i ordered on Wednesday (dec.19) and i dont know if its been shipped out. If not, could you send me a superbolt with a longnose type face on the bolt? (i have a AGD Longnose bolt and have no chops with it, others may want to buy the foamie type, but for me the longnose type is good)

Thanks!

[AGD]

If necessary we will retrofit everyones bolts with rubber foamie tips.

AGD

[X-Plosive]

sucks for you people, I've gone through 3 cases without a single chop or break. All inferno, PMI premium and some viper venom. I'm surprised.

[Russ]

Tom,

I'm going to try and pick up some foamies this coming week. I'll see if that has a positive effect on the ball breakage.

What adhesive do you suggest? The Delrin may be too slick.

Thanks,
Russ

[SGT FURY]

my superbolt was too fat on the end to go through my main body.also i didnt notice if it was too long, i didnt look because i saw this post before i ordered. i used 400 grit and sanded the outside of the tip once it would slide into my body i tied it with about 50 rounds of voodoo.not a single break. 2000psi ,freak,68 classic,intelliframe,richoche hopper.i didnt notice if distance was affected but my accuracy was drastically improved.i havent tried my emag yet.....will try tonite.

[Arand]

AGD,

Been on vacation so I didn't post earlier. Here's the bounce test numbers --


GA Blaze
1 1 2
2 5 2
3 3 5
4 1 3
5 6 8
6 5 3
7 6 4
8 3 2
9 6 5
10 3 3

The deviation is pretty wide it seems. As I mentioned before, this was a mixed bag of leftovers. I haven't had a chance to use the bolt with fresh paint yet.

Arand

[sifu01]

I was wondering on an ETA for the modified superbolts to ship?

Thanks

[dogEmedic]

Hello everybody, got some diablo midnight today and I thought I would post my results. Same setup as above but I tried both my lapco bigshot and autospirit with plastic nubbins. With the superbolt and midnights it would load 1 1/2 paintballs instead of 1 and I was still chopping balls like mad. Switched over to me reg bolt and had no probs.

ball bounce
1--- 4
2--- 4
3--- 2
4--- 6
5--- 2
6--- 1
7--- 1
8--- 4
9--- 3
10-- 2

[Arand]

dogEmedic,

If you're loading 1 1/2 paintballs, you need to adjust you nubbins. It's not a superbolt problem. I've had some minor problems with really small balls + plastic nubbins combo. You could try putting some tape on the outside of your nubbins so that when you screw in your barrel, the nubbins will protrude into the barrel more.

The plastic nubbins are really nice. As long as you don't use super small balls, I've had zero problems.

Arand

[dogEmedic]

Arand,

I was going to try something like that, i was even going to try a wire nubbin for a couple shots to see if their was any difference. When i used the normal bolt i did'nt have that feed problem. I was able to rip off a whole hopper with the old bolt with plastic nubbins with no breaks, but with the superbolt only three balls.
It's kinda tough to compare (sp) diablo paint to brass eagle but it's funny that brass eagles (i know their large bore) would not feed after the first shot, and midnights would feed 1 1/2 after the first shot.

Alan

[headcase7212]

I know that this is a little off the topic but I was wondering, what a superbolt is actually supposed to do? I cant seem to find a good explination.

[Arand]

The superbolt reduces most of the recoil from shooting the automag. It will be a great upgrade once these ball break issues are resolved.

Arand

[AGD]

This thread is closed, we are recalling all the Superbolts. See recall thread in main forum.

AGD