Mag won't fire!

[sisco87]

Well i just got the last part for my first project mag, which was an RT valve. And i'm having some trouble with it. :(

So here's my setup-
RT valve with lvl 10 and ult
classic rail w/ classic sear of course
ule body
and logic 90* frame if that has to do with anything
The tank i'm using is a 68/30 preset- 850 psi

The very first time i aire'd it up with everything put together, it shot 3 times real fast w/out me even pulling the trigger.
Everytime i air it up and try to shoot it just doesn't fire.
There is resistance in the trigger. I pull, it doesnt do anything, and the trigger goes back to normal position.

I've tried turning the velocity all the way up, it didn't do anything.

Anyone know what the problem could be?

Edit 6/3/06 - I got the Blue ULE body so i could actually test it out again. I did oil the heck out of the thing, but i was figuring out the problem was it would leak down the barrel when the valve would come apart just a little bit from the body. So i just pushed it in as close as possible and tightened the field strip screw and that did the trick. No leaking and it's working right! :clap:
I wouldn't say it's prefectly tuned and everthing 'cause it does "chuff" sometimes and leak a tiny bit every now and then when shooting. But close enough. :bounce:
Oh and here's some pics for you guys that i just took.
<a href="http://www.jayloo.com/photo_gallery/show_pic.html?pIMAGE_ID=37168"> <img src="http://www.jayloo.com/files/pics/37000/RT_Mag_001_tn.jpg"> </img></a>
<a href="http://www.jayloo.com/photo_gallery/show_pic.html?pIMAGE_ID=37170"> <img src="http://www.jayloo.com/files/pics/37000/RT_Mag_004_tn.jpg"> </img></a>
<a href="http://www.jayloo.com/photo_gallery/show_pic.html?pIMAGE_ID=37169"> <img src="http://www.jayloo.com/files/pics/37000/RT_Mag_003_tn.jpg"> </img></a>

[paintman1142]

you have one to many shims in the ULT probally

[blinky1041]

Your trigger rod might be too long. It should be adjusted to 1.99 inches I believe.

[Ken Majors]

I'm having the same issue with a parted together mag that I have been tinkering on for a few months.

ULT shims all removed, pin length toyed with, increased input pressure, and increased velocity...= Nothing but a really springy trigger that doesn't fire.

ULT shimmed to the MAX, pin length measured to spec, decreased input pressure to 850psi, and increased velocity to the Max. = Nothing but a very springy trigger that doesn't fire.

Thinking I need to send it to someone. It is a backup gun that was scavenged from parts that I used to make my E-Tac. Xvalve w lvl X, original EMag rail and p/f left body, and intelliframe. Sure would make a nice backup...if I could get the darn thing to shoot :shooting:

[sisco87]

Ken- yeah it's no fun not having it shoot... :(

It could be the trigger rod, but I don't think i'll be able to adjust considering that it was loctited by whoever had it before me. And i mean the super loctite so it wont even buge :tard:

[Coralis]

are you guys using level 10s could be bolt stick

[sisco87]

are you guys using level 10s could be bolt stick
yeah, it has lvl 10.
i just got the valve and who i got it from says he went through a whole tank to check it and its completely tuned right and everything....

[kingpen509]

yeah, it has lvl 10.
i just got the valve and who i got it from says he went through a whole tank to check it and its completely tuned right and everything....

That would be me! I did indeed shoot the crap out of that valve before I sent it and it is in perfect working order. You did tell me though that you pieced this thing together and the rail, trigger frame, and sear have never been a "unit" and that you have never had a "working valve" on this set-up before. So what you need to do it take an afternoon and get a lighter, heat up your sear and proceed to adjust it until you marker is blazing.

What else you might try to do is gas it up and if it still doesnt fire take plastic rod maybe a part of a clothes hanger and push the bolt back down the breach, if the sear latches on the front of the bolt and you are able to take at least one shot before it gets caught up again then yes you need a larger carrier for you specific set-up.

Let me know if I can help more in any-way! Shoot send me the gun and I'll get it rippin for you! :D

[sisco87]

I'll have to try those out and see if that gets it working.
I might also even take you up on that and maybe send it to you :p
Thanks kingpen

[sisco87]

Still having trouble you guys.... :(

The sear won't adjust at all. I've tried everything with that.
And i tried moving the blot back with a rod or somehting, but it just doesn't move. Nothing happens.

So it's still the same thing. I air it up, there's resistnace on the trigger, and it just doesn't fire....

[mnjackal]

I was having the same problem and i finally started loosening the screw that holds my valve in and that did the trick. I made the mistake of tightening that screw with an allen wrench. It should be hand tightened or a little looser than that.

[flyingpootang]

Are you running a second reg?

[flyingpootang]

Edit: How many shims in your ULT?

[sisco87]

No second reg. and i hand tighten the field strip screw...

Another thing i noticed is there is a slight gap between the valve and the body. it's really small, but i don't know if the valve has to be totally up against/into the body or if a tiny gap makes a difference. That making any sense?

[kingpen509]

That little gap is fine! No cause for concern!








No second reg. and i hand tighten the field strip screw...

Another thing i noticed is there is a slight gap between the valve and the body. it's really small, but i don't know if the valve has to be totally up against/into the body or if a tiny gap makes a difference. That making any sense?

[Shotcaller509]

Sisco It is all in the seer trust me. You have to adjust the rod at the end of the seer. Like kingpen said you have to heat the rod up with a lighter to melt the locktight and when it melts hot enough then you turn it clockwise to shorten or counter clockwise to make it longer. It sounds like the way you have the seer rod you wont get any valve rockin the way you want it. I am on the same team as kingpen and that valve was used flawlessly by us. It is the best tuned valve with a ULT you can get. If you dont believe me tell it to the trophy ;) Like Kingpen said if you need your gun adjusted send it to him. He is well trusted in this forum just look at his feedback. Ive seen this man finely tune so many mags its unbelievable. Just a thought. Laterz, and good luck with the seer.

[kingpen509]

Your going to have to excuse my friend he's a little a slow!





Sisco It is all in the seer trust me. You have to adjust the rod at the end of the seer. Like kingpen said you have to heat the rod up with a lighter to melt the locktight and when it melts hot enough then you turn it clockwise to shorten or counter clockwise to make it longer. It sounds like the way you have the seer rod you wont get any valve rockin the way you want it. I am on the same team as kingpen and that valve was used flawlessly by us. It is the best tuned valve with a ULT you can get. If you dont believe me tell it to the trophy ;) Like Kingpen said if you need your gun adjusted send it to him. He is well trusted in this forum just look at his feedback. Ive seen this man finely tune so many mags its unbelievable. Just a thought. Laterz, and good luck with the seer.

[Shotcaller509]

Yea Im so slow!! don't you know they call me Rain Man :tard: Duh duh duh


Your going to have to excuse my friend he's a little a slow!

[Walrus]

Definately take 10 - 15 minutes and adjust the crap out of the trigger rod. I had the same issue with my classic Mag when I put a new DYE 45 frame on it. There was so much of a difference between it and the stock frame that I had to completely re-adjust the trigger rod (I think screwing it in more). You need to make sure that when your gun is gassed up, there should be a 1/16" or roughly a 1mm gap between the end of the rod and the back of your trigger if your trigger is all the way forward. If you are using trigger stops, then I suggest backing those off until you get your trigger working right. Give it a try before giving up and sending it to someone.

[sisco87]

lol

Thanks you guys. I'll try giving the rod another try at adjusting it. Last time i tried heating with a lighter and trying to turn it, didn't buge. (Even took plying to it, to get a tighter grip)
So i may have to get a new sear, if i can't adjust this one.

[kingpen509]

Before you buy a new sear keep in mind that they are all locktighted from the factory. So I would just bust out the heat torch and blaze that sucker before I forked out another penny for a non-broken item!

[sisco87]

Ok, so i melted the glue away and now have the sear arm adjusting! :clap:

But now, i adjusted it in so the arm length was smaller and there's leaking down the barrel now, and it only stops when i press and hold the trigger down....
So should i make the arm length longer or shorter? (or is it the arm length?)

[kingpen509]

The leak could have something to do with the arm length but never mind that for now is the marker firing? If not adjust the arm in and out (try and remember the gap that needed..specs up above) until the marker starts firing consistantly and then if its still leaking deal with that issue.

[sisco87]

Yeah, it is shooting. Just leaks too.
And I noticed when i did push the valve against the body to get rid of the small gap....it didn't leak as much or at all. idk

Also, i was talking to another guy from here who seemed to know a lot, but he was saying i shouldn't be messing with the arm length and it could mess it up. he wasn't making to much sense. :confused:

Aren't there 4 shims in it kingpen? Wouldn't taking one or some out help with anything?

[jhyanathan]

I am having basically the exact same problem. I have the gap between the valve and body as well. When I put the gun back together I can jam the body and valve together and it shoots fine, for about a dozen shots until the gap widens and it stops shooting.

[Coralis]

I am having basically the exact same problem. I have the gap between the valve and body as well. When I put the gun back together I can jam the body and valve together and it shoots fine, for about a dozen shots until the gap widens and it stops shooting.

Check your rail bushing which is this part here it might be worn or missing if you are having problems with the valve moving too far also check the z lock pin that go on the back half of the valve some people take them out to make removing the valve easier , also look at the back of the rail where the pin would sit and make sure its not damaged. If damaged and the gun wont shot reliable you may have no recourse other than buying another rail. rail bushing (http://store.airgun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=403&categoryID=92)





Also, i was talking to another guy from here who seemed to know a lot, but he was saying i shouldn't be messing with the arm length and it could mess it up. he wasn't making to much sense. what is referring to is back in the day before all the aftermarket products were made for the mag people would adjust that pin to take out the little bit of "slop" in the trigger in the attempt to shorten the pull and thus increase their rate of fire , usually all the ended up doing was messing up their guns so they didnt shoot . You on the other hand have pieced together a mag and it isnt shooting so you are fine to adjust the trigger rod. Also now that you have some leakage down the barrel and its shooting try removing shims in the Level 10 and see if that clears the problem

[jhyanathan]

Thanks for the tip. I have a logic alpha rail, hope I don't have to try and replace it :P. I'll check the bushing tonight to see if it's worn.

There is a pin in the valve that sticks out about 1/8 inch, and it looks fine, as well as the the slot it goes in.

j

[jhyanathan]

Wow... I read an old thread on here about tuning the ult... and someone said how oiling the crap out of the mag made it work... so I oiled the crap out of it.... and it works!

[sisco87]

Wow... I read an old thread on here about tuning the ult... and someone said how oiling the crap out of the mag made it work... so I oiled the crap out of it.... and it works!
i'll have to try that...but i actually can't right now since i dont have a body. A blue ULE one should be coming to me though.

[jhyanathan]

mmmm, blue ULE. Oh wait, mines a blue ULE. Someone said they were rare, that's hard to believe, I've seen a lot of them around.

[Coralis]

Mags do like alot of oil especially when breaking in new Orings.

[sisco87]

mmmm, blue ULE. Oh wait, mines a blue ULE. Someone said they were rare, that's hard to believe, I've seen a lot of them around.
Yeah, wouldn't say they're rare, but they aren't as common as other ULE bodies i don't think.


And for oil, what's some good oil i could use to load down on my mag? I've used and have just regular tool oil, but was wondering if something else would be better....

[Coralis]

Tool oil is good .... I use KC trouble free oil , do a search in BST area there was someone selling some for a pretty good price not to long ago.

[sisco87]

Well the blue ule arrived to me so i was able to mess with it. Got it working now! :clap:
I also put some pics up that i took today.