Grr, this cocker is ticking me off....!!!

[punkncat]

:mad:

My cocker which has worked perfectly since I have had it suddenly can't keep velocity, nor anything even close to consistant velocity.

I played with it one weekend and it worked as well as always. Every few shots might be off, but generally it stayed within 5FPS or so. The next weekend the velocity was all over. 211 one shot followed by 305 the next, somewhere in the middle the next....no two shots are anything near the same.

I have a Kaner Kit and a Freak. I have tried both to the same results. I have tried two different regs, a Sidewinder and a Stabilizer and it acts the same. I have tried two different valves. One appears to be an Evil valve and the other is a Ratt. I have tried different spring combinations.

The best I have been able to get is with the Ratt valve. The pressure is a bit higher, but it generally stays within 30 FPS or so. I have a medium valve spring with a heavy rear spring. I am having to sweet spot the reg, and then turn the RVG all the way in to get a velocity of 260ish...sometimes. Mostly it hovers around 240's.

This marker worked fine two weeks ago and now won't do right at all. I am so frustrated with it. I am seriously considering sending it to AKA or Palmers and spending an insane amount of money just to let them get a headache.....

:mad:

[azzkikr]

i cannot offer ANY help whatsoever when it comes to your cocker not working.

however i can tell you this. your not alone with your cocker problems. EVERYONE who has ever owned one has had problems with them.

the ones who tell you that they've never had any problems, lied and payed too much to admit that their marker isn't working properly

hang in there, you'll figure it out with some help from people here i'm sure.

azzkikr

[Dark Frost17]

has the weather changed?

[VFX_Fenix]

Well, fist off, sweet spotting the regs then messing with the springs will undo all the hard work you did for setting the reg up because it messes with the valve dwell.

Second, assuming that the cocker was working fine then suddenly had velocity problems I would guess that the first symptom would have been caused by a poor paint-barrel match which was allowing some of the smaller paint to move down the barrel before it was shot, giving low velocity, where your actual velocity was probably much closer to 300fps as it had been before. But that's just a guess.

Barring that, since you do have a kit, and I hope you are checking your paint match because you're using a Cocker, I'd look at the paint and try some mid to high grade stuff (Midnight, Premium, Marbs, XBall Silver, etc) that's pretty consistantly round and sized and go back to your original configuration and give it a whirl.

I personally wouldn't go changing a bunch of stuff (like the valve or the springs unless you're replacing them with new items which are the same).

[punkncat]

Well, fist off, sweet spotting the regs then messing with the springs will undo all the hard work you did for setting the reg up because it messes with the valve dwell.

Second, assuming that the cocker was working fine then suddenly had velocity problems I would guess that the first symptom would have been caused by a poor paint-barrel match which was allowing some of the smaller paint to move down the barrel before it was shot, giving low velocity, where your actual velocity was probably much closer to 300fps as it had been before. But that's just a guess.

Barring that, since you do have a kit, and I hope you are checking your paint match because you're using a Cocker, I'd look at the paint and try some mid to high grade stuff (Midnight, Premium, Marbs, XBall Silver, etc) that's pretty consistantly round and sized and go back to your original configuration and give it a whirl.

I personally wouldn't go changing a bunch of stuff (like the valve or the springs unless you're replacing them with new items which are the same).

Umm, paint to bore match was the first thing I suspected. I have been using the same paint as always and have very good consistancy and performance with the same paint with my Angel.
I haven't actually broken out the Marbs as of yet...but...

I sweet spotted the reg each different setup change, as it is as you pointed out different with each one. The only thing really in question is that perhaps my hard spring may have.....sprung? lol

[Jotsy]

have you tried a different air system on it?

[punkncat]

I have tried three different tanks. Two HP and one LP. It acts the same on each.

[deathstalker]

What's the specific setup? Is it mechanical or e-bladed? I'll jump on the "Check yer paint, dude!" bandwagon, as it's the most consistent way I can generate the inconsistent velocity issues you describe. :tard: You don't mention timing, but you don't mention settings, either.

[neppo1345]

I don't want to tell someone just as experienced, or more experienced than me he's wrong...but you've got to be sweet spotting the reg incorrectly.

IVG in 3-4 threads...start at 0psi, and move it up until you gain suffecient velocity. If you cant get it up to where you like, new spring combo.

I know that you know this...but I just figured id restate it...It's the only thing that could be causing this problem.

[VFX_Fenix]

I sweet spotted the reg each different setup change, as it is as you pointed out different with each one. The only thing really in question is that perhaps my hard spring may have.....sprung? lol


Could be, though I might be inclined to doubt it unless the Cocker was left ummm.... cocked... over the week and even then I don't know that it would do that, but it is a possibility.

I would think though that you'd be able to achieve at least a usable muzzle velocity even with a slightly sprung spring. But, since springs are inexpensive and you know what you had/have in there I would start with replacing that and see if there's any sort of improvement.

[deathstalker]

IVG in 3-4 threads...start at 0psi, and move it up until you gain suffecient velocity.
Actually, keep increasing the pressure until an increase in pressure results in a decrease in velocity.

[BigEvil]

Servicing the HP reg wouldnt hurt either.

[NoLifeLeft]

Is your back block catching the cocking rod too soon? I've seen quite a few autocockers that needed a longer window of opportunity on the "valve dwell". Having the cocking cycle start too soon causes hideous velocity problems because the back block usually catches at a slightly different point each time. Thought I'd ask since I didn't see that in your list of attempts to fix it.

[magman007]

could be back block timing issues, could be trigger/3way timing issues, or it could be your lpr, check all the above.

also, is your ram cycling smothely or leaking? or on a slow trigger pull, is the 3 way leaking? or is it an e cocker?

[ottomobile]

Send it in to Palmer for timing. For $50 he cleaned it, timed it, set the trigger stops, rebuilt the 4-way and shipped it back to me. AND he timed it tighter than I ever thought possible. You won't be disappointed and he's not as expensive as you might think.

[punkncat]

I didn't mention the timing, but when I started noticing the problem I "loosened" up the timing to avoid the back block slapping the cocking rod. While I have been changing the setups and testing I have left the 3 way timed way back in the trigger stroke, with the sear lug set as normal. I had run into this problem before trying to get the tightest timing possible...I know how to find that now.

As as far as sweet spotting the reg, I appreciate the input and am thankful to know I have been doing it right all these years.

More than likely I am going to order a new set of springs just in case, and get a rebuild kit for the Sidewinder and go from there with some premium paint. I may just borrow a new reg from the shop for a few minutes and test it outside.

I guess on the laughable side I have learned a few things. The shocktech bolt is less efficent than the black magic delrin bolt. The Ratt valve doesn't operate as low a pressure as the stock? valve. Actually I am not sure what this valve is. It's made of stainless and has an orange Oring. The stem is one piece of some composite with a small softer insert on the cup seal side of the poppet. It looks exactly like an Evil valve except that it is drilled all the way through so as there to be no way to put in upside down so to speak. The only stock WGP valves I have seen were all brass.

[VFX_Fenix]

There are some Cocker guys who firmly believe the stock WGP Valve is the best valve for the job. The valve in my Cocker is as described but made of Brass, the Orracle valves were made of Stainless and again, as described.

[vivalamexico]

check your valve jam nut and make sure it isnt loose this can cause erratic velocity as well as destruction of the gun body if it backs completely out.