Getting back in and want a Mag...

[Robg54]

I was a woodsball player in High school. Haven't played in something like 6 years.

I am getting back into the sport and I was looking for a gun to use.

I was amazed to see how affordable mags were (always sorta liked em) and I have decided, based on what I've seen and heard, that they seem like the gun for me.

I'm not looking for flash and while being able to shoot quick is nice, I'm not the type of person to shoot lots of paint. I prefer to make shots count.

I am not an expert so a gun that is easy to maintain and relaible is a super plus.

I also like upgradeability and it seems like mags have more of it than most.

Well, I have some money and I would like to try and figure out exactly which mag is for me:)

I was wondering ablut the level 10. Less chopping sounds cool. But I heard someone say it means more maintenence.

What about a minimag. What are it's advantages against an automag. I am not looking to spend more than $250 on the gun, but used is certainly an option.

Also, I have never had a gun that used anything but C02. Is N02 better? Can it be filled up at most fields just as easily? More or less as expensively?

So, I'm really excited to get a mag. I hope you guys have some nice things to say.

PS, what do you guys think about something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Automag-RT-3000psi-68ci-Nitro-fiberglass-viewloader-x_W0QQitemZ7241778801QQcategoryZ47245QQrdZ1QQcmdZV iewItem

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1508904

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1529985 (This guy askin $250)


I don't feel confident assessing perfectly the value of these markers as I'm just not sure the specifics of some of the upgrades and their costs. Do any of these seem good deals and what exactly makes them such?

[quasimorte]

ok first all look like ok deals but.

option 1.
the tank has about 7 years left on hydro and still needs to be checked every 3 years would ask when last check was. (every HPA bottle needs to be recertified for useability, fiber bottles, 3-5 years with retirement at 15. steel, 5 year hydro good till they fail.)

option 2
has stock valves which works for most people and can be swapped out for x-valve for cheeper through AGD so shoot first then figure if you want something faster.

option 3.
this is probably worth it because of the body and valve. both uppgraded, if you like the look might be worth it.

my advice, go to AGD's web site and look at there virtual meusime (sp, place for old stuff) get to know the variouse stages of upp grades then do a search on current selling prices here and on pbnation. take your time and get the right gun to begin with or as close too it as you can find.

my .02

[Corbet]

If your not in a big hurry I would just check out AO's For Sale forums. Theres always some great deals on used mags.

[Robg54]

Yeah, I think I'll take my time and look around as long as none of those seem like particularly good deals.

[Corbet]

The way I look at it is you can get a new RT Pro with X-valve, ULE, ect. for $350. Surely you can find one of decent quality for $250.

[Pacifist_Farmer]

Corbet is right, but a classic valved mag has an advantage, use of CO2.

Not sure where you play the most, but any place without airfills (rogue ball) will make CO2 very attractive. Some fields even have difficulty completely filling the high pressure HPA bottles.

I would honestly suggest picking up a used classic valved mag for $150? and playing for a bit. I think it will be fast enough for your needs.

[RT Old School]

I've been a mag purist ever since I bought my first RT in 98. The only maintenance I've done to that one is oiling it, cleaning it, and adding o rings once in a great while. I still use it as a backup or loaner gun and it is going strong.

Two things that I would consider a must in terms of mag upgrades are HPA and the Lvl 10 bolt. Here in Virginia, and back home near Chicago, I think you would be hard pressed to find a field that didnt accomodate High Pressure Air. (Barely anyone calls it Nitro fills any more) In fact, a field in North Carolina offers free HPA but charges for CO2 because they already have the compressor on site, but have to order CO2 canisters. You dont need an expensive adjustable tank right away. I used my 68 cu in 3000 psi screw in nitro duck for years. I upgraded to an AGD Flatline a couple of years ago, and more recently went up to a 4500 psi tank. You can get your basic screw in tank for less than $100 anymore. I just sold my old Nitro Duck for $60. (I paid $300 for it in '98 UGH!)

As for the Lvl 10 bolt, once you have it tuned and broken in (there is info in the tech forums) you will virtually eliminate chopped balls. Admittedly, I have broken paint due to me using incredibly old or out of round balls, but I have yet to chop a ball when I use good paint and my electric hopper is actually turned on. (I refuse to admit how many times I start a game with it off)

I never owned a mini mag, but I feel that the newer ULE RT's are the way to go. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the mini mags will only accept the old twist lock barrels that use those nubbins as detents. Those barrels are increasingly hard to find, and quite frankly arent up to the standards of todays barrels. The RT's use cocker threaded barrels that will allow you to use any of the many barrel kits that are out there. (Freak, Empire being two that pop to my mind) They allow you to use one barrel and many inserts so you can match the size of your paint to the bore of your barrel. (Read Tom Kaye's tech tip on barrels size in relationship to accuracy) I didnt buy a whole kit at once, (upwards of $120) but every month or so I buy a different size insert. It may end up costing me more in the long run, but I can justify smaller purchases to my wife every month, rather than one big one.

I've not bought a used gun online (many parts, but never an entire maker) so I dont know what would be considered a good deal. I will advise that before you go ebay or pbnation that you spend some time on the buy/sell/trade forums here. Its only my opinion, but I think you will find that the people here really care more about mags and AGD and want like minded individuals to have a positive playing experience. Many of the ads I see on other sites are people just selling stuff that they've picked up and dont really care about the person or the product. (Hey, its capitalism, good for them!) But the guys here will really work with you in finding you a quality marker in your price range.

Hope I didnt ramble too much. I just like to help bring folks back to the 'mag family if I can.

Take care.

[Robg54]

Yeah, that sounds good. A LOT of the dealings I have had on pbnation seem to be just people playing a game where they continually buy, sell and trade markers trying to work their way up to something good.

I am quite impressed by what I see here.

I appreciate all the help.

BTW, I see the difference in filling compressed air vs co2, but is there any difference in performance?

[IcantBelieveit]

yes co2 is affected by the weather. since when it is cold it tends to want to liquify. it can freeze o-rings and create unwanted velocities. a good expansion chamber is recommended if using co2. Or some people prefer to use and coil remote in addition to the expansion chamer.

compressed air is always air will not liquify. so more consistant velocities and no freezing of o-rings.

[RT Old School]

BTW, I see the difference in filling compressed air vs co2, but is there any difference in performance?

Since the advent of the RT valve in the mid 90's automag valves run on HPA ONLY. The older valves can be ran on either HPA or CO2. I'm no scientician, but from what I read HPA will provide a more constant supply of air into the marker. I remember back in the day getting the speech at the beginning of rec play, they warned us on holding the guns so that the liquid CO2 wouldnt get into the gun. (Hence the advent of expansion chambers) You dont have to worry about that with HPA. Weather also plays a factor with CO2, as I guess the liquid expands differently if its cold outside vs warm. No need to worry about that with HPA. Since tanks nowadays are so affordable (on one of the ads you had pasted, I think I saw a guy offering his for $40.) IMHO its not worth going the cheap route with CO2.

[PnueMagger]

There is a ton of difference. There is no shootdown or freezing with HPA. Thus the shot to shot consistancy is perfect. I find co2 works well for me, but I prefer woodsball where shootouts are spaced out and shorter.

Both will work well with a classic Valved mag. If your going to play airball/speedball more often and you will be nonstop firing - HPA would be your best value. Also if you plan on getting an RT style valve in the future - HPA is a must. Stay away from the small 45/3000 tanks, they don't offer much more than a hopper worth of air.

If you get Co2, try to spring for an expansion chamber or Nice regulator if you will be firing a lot. However, by then, you have spent as much as a cheap HPA tank.

As for the Level 10, they are probably the best upgrade for mags. But if you can get a hopper with an actual "on gun feed rate" of more than 15bps, you should be ok without one. But the level 10 coupled with an electric hopper will virtually eliminate chops forever. Not tough at all to set up or keep maintaned.

The nice thing about a mag is that if you start with a nice classic mag, you have infinate room to upgrade it later on. They last forever. Always a good choice.

[Coralis]

Using HPA on a mag is probably the best upgrade you can do for a mag, otherwise you need 1 or more to the following to get the mag to perform reliably: good expansion chamber , anti siphon tank , palmer stablizer , remote line and bottle , vertical CO2 set up.

[craltal]

One major performance difference between CO2 and HPA is that you are limited to the sublimation rate of CO2 which will be dependant on the temperature differential between ambient and the tank while HPA is limited by the rate of the regulator on the tank. This will only come into play when you are firing at high rates of fire for an extended period of time or if you are playing in quite cold weather. Most high pressure output tanks will keep up with any mechanical mag, in fact I have yet to hear of one that is working properly that can't.

Personally, I run all my guns (with the exception of the pump guns) on HPA, but do have a few CO2 complient guns for the off chance I still need to use it.

Any mechanical mag will be super simple to maintain.

A minimag just has a different body style. Despite what was said, it's not actually that hard to find twist -lock barrel (with the exception of center feed ones)

[Robg54]

I like the look and what I've seen of the tactical automag.

Are these ok for woodsball?

Are they newbie friendly?