Help me pick my camera

[topazpaintball]

I'm looking to buy a new Prosumer point-and-shoot (no, I can't afford a DSLR... wish I could) and I've narrowed it down to these two

http://reviews.cnet.com/Kodak_EasyShare_V610/4505-6501_7-31813552.html?tag=pdtl-list
http://reviews.cnet.com/Canon_PowerShot_S80/4505-6501_7-31475440.html?tag=tpr

Does anyone have any experience with either, or another recommendation?

[billybob_81067]

You can pick your camera and you can pick your nose... but don't pick your camera's nose? Wait... that's not right.

You can pick your friends and you can pick your camera, but don't pick your friend's camera!

There... that's better!

/Sorry... was just feeling like making a retarded post
//Must beat out cphil in posts!

[Steelrat]

You can pick your camera and you can pick your nose... but don't pick your camera's nose? Wait... that's not right.

You can pick your friends and you can pick your camera, but don't pick your friend's camera!

There... that's better!

/Sorry... was just feeling like making a retarded post
//Must beat out cphil in posts!

Yes, it was a retarded post.


Now, I don't know much about the particular cameras you posted, but I own a Canon elura miniDV camcorder and a Canon 20D DSLR, and both have been amazing products. Canon even fixed a problem with the elura under warranty, even though it was 2 years out of warranty. Now THATS service.

[billybob_81067]

Yes, it was a retarded post.




Thank you... Thank you very much.

[Kevmaster]

Canon makes the best cameras I've ever shot. I own 3. I highly recommend Canon in any situation

[Dharma punk]

I vote Canon as well. I can't wait to get my 30D. :D

[MicroMiniMe]

/Summons Hexis

[Muzikman]

Take a look at the Canon S2 IS. It's a great camera for the money and now that the S3 came out you can find it pretty cheap.

[tropical_fishy]

You're going to regret not getting a DSLR. Are you set on digital? Because film SLRs come cheaper than digital.

I agree with everyone up there ^. Canon.

[Muzikman]

Problem is, film in the long run costs more and the real cost with an SLR is not the body (film or digital), it's the lenses.

[tropical_fishy]

Problem is, film in the long run costs more and the real cost with an SLR is not the body (film or digital), it's the lenses.

But still. I know that my photography wouldn't have evolved to the place it's at now as quickly without my DSLR. A good camera really does make all the difference in the world.

[Muzikman]

I don't believe that to be true. I can take the S2 and take a picture that most would not be able to tell the difference between it or one taken with my 10D. Also, no matter how good the body is, the quality of the photo is largly based on the quality of the glass. A good SLR with a crppy lens will take a crappy picture. It's all up to how much control the camera allows and then what the optics are like. Now if I was a professional or didn't have a budget, it would be a different story.

[Hexis]

I don't believe that to be true. I can take the S2 and take a picture that most would not be able to tell the difference between it or one taken with my 10D. Also, no matter how good the body is, the quality of the photo is largly based on the quality of the glass. A good SLR with a crppy lens will take a crappy picture. It's all up to how much control the camera allows and then what the optics are like. Now if I was a professional or didn't have a budget, it would be a different story.

For the purpose of simplicity let's just talk digital. Film has a whole set of it's own concerns.

For somone ust starting to get into photography: go digital. There are so many advantages of digital for somone learning. You can shoot a lot more with little or no cost. Just delete anything you are not happy with. Each image stores the exposure infomarion in the image headers. This means you can tell what happened for any images, without the hassle of trying to record all of it on paper.

Muzikman's point is true to a point. Any camera without a removable lens will have limitations that do limit the options avaliable to a photgrapher. A good P&S will allow you to take some images that you can with a SLR (and others, but I'll limit it for the purposes of this discussion), but nothing like all of the images possible with an SLR.

That being said, a P&S is a far better choice for most people who want to take photos. The sensors on P&S cameras are much smaller than on DSLRs. This gives you a couple of traits, that for a normal person are advantages. It allows for much smaller and lighter lenses. This keeps the whole package small and light, and much more compact. It also gives a larger Depth of Field (the distance range in forcus) than a larger sensor would for the same field of vision. This makes focusing less critical. P&S cameras are high enough resolution (MegaPixels) for even decent sized prints (8x10). The lower resolution means a smaller file size, so storage is far less of a concern. The P&S cameras are sealed, so dust on the sensor is not a real concern. Dust is a big problem on DSLRs.

I own a Canon A80 for P&S stuff. I have taken some great images on it. There are many times where taking along a large DSLR is simply not possible. If there was one feature I would like to see on more than P&S models is Image Stabilized lenses.

As for a general suggestion I would say pick a budget. Perhaps not your top limit, but a general idea of what you would like to spend. Then pick a Canon P&S that fits within your budget. I have been very pleased with all of my Canon gear. I like the look of the S3/S2, the Pro1 is interesting, the super compacts are decent. One of my favorite things of the A80 is that it uses CF, not SD. So I can use the high capacity cards for the DSLR gear for the lil one.

A good place to do some pre-purchase research is www.dpreview.com. They have reviews on most modes out there.

[Indignant]

Canon owns in the realm of PAS. Nice dSLR's, too. I'd pick the Canon over the Kodak for sure.

[topazpaintball]

I'm looking at high-end PAS's because there are times when I need the capabilities of a DSLR. Usually I only need a PAS for general shooting. Even if I could buy a DSLR, I'm not sure I would, given their larger size (I also favor size) I just need to know which of these PAS's is the better choice

[Hexis]

In that price range, take a look at the Canon S3 IS.

[Indignant]

The S3 IS is a nice little camera. I like it.

[Cameo]

def go with cannon. they have better cusotmer service and have 90 % of the digital camera empire...
I agree totally with muzik that with certain point and shoots you can get just as good photos as with a dslr.. it is all in the glass when it comes to the dslr....
I constantly play around with my sisters cannon point and shoot (especially when i forget mine or whatever). I have gotten some super dandy pics with it and the quaility is quite nice..
that being said.. my point n shoot of choice is the Casio Exlim... It is really really easy to use (the cannons can be a bit confusing in some ways...) And I have actually had some of my photos hung that I took with the Casio..

Have fun photoing...
when you do get your digital please share your shots (I prefer www.flickr.com (http://www.flickr.com) )
~steph

www.cameosteph.com (http://www.cameosteph.com)

[topazpaintball]

Yea, I decided against the Kodak.

this (http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_Cyber_Shot_DSC_T30_black/4505-6501_7-31813563.html?tag=pdtl-list&ar=o) came to my attention however, and it looks promising. Any more opinions?

[SpitFire1299]

Buy them both and you wont have to worry about it. :argh: :p

[Hexis]

Yea, I decided against the Kodak.

this (http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_Cyber_Shot_DSC_T30_black/4505-6501_7-31813563.html?tag=pdtl-list&ar=o) came to my attention however, and it looks promising. Any more opinions?

You are all over the map with types of cameras. Are you looking for super small, all around decent, super zoom? What's the goal. There are a ton of different P&S digitals out there.

[Muzikman]

Avoid Sony cameras.

[topazpaintball]

You are all over the map with types of cameras. Are you looking for super small, all around decent, super zoom? What's the goal. There are a ton of different P&S digitals out there.

Anything that fits in my pocket, and takes high quality photos.

[Muzikman]

Ok, do you want any manual control?

If you just want a good camera that will fit in your pocket. Check out the Canon Digial Elph line.

[Hexis]

Check out the Canon Digial Elph line.

I fully agree.

[Hexis]

I agree totally with muzik that with certain point and shoots you can get just as good photos as with a dslr.. it is all in the glass when it comes to the dslr....

There are some aspects of a SLR that can be replaced by a good P&S. There are a great many that can't be replaced by anything with a fixed lens.

[Hexis]

I'm looking to buy a new Prosumer point-and-shoot.

Anything that fits in my pocket, and takes high quality photos.

Unless you have a really big pocket, you will find that those two goals are not compatiable.

Do not be fooled by a super compact P&S with a high number of megapixels. MP does not equate to quality.

[Thordic]

Theres no such thing as prosumer p&s that will fit in your pocket. You could get a 30megapixel tiny little camera and it still wouldn't be the same.

There are way too many factors to consider. Shutter speeds, chromatic aberration (purple fringing is rampant in digital point and shoots), noise, etc.

http://tweakers.net/ext/i.dsp/1148238014.jpg

Canon S3 IS is a good affordable point and shoot for those who want to get closer to a dSLR without getting too involved in different lenses.

What you are looking at is not what I would consider prosumer at all.

[going_home]

Avoid Sony cameras.

Sony has aquired Konica Minolta's SLR assets.
So say what you want about their point and shoot's
(I cant speak for those, Muzikman did though),
but they are going to be 3rd in SLR's if not 2nd immediately.

Anyway I bought a Nikon D50 and I love it.
Dont waste your time and money on a camera you ultimately wont be happy with.
Go ahead and get a serious camera, you wont be sorry.
The D50's were the same price new on Ebay as they were at the local Ritz Camera
so I got it there, and it came with 18 digital camera/printing/Photoshop classes.
They are the only place I know that offered total replacement insurance.
Its only about 100.00 a year. If they cant fix it, they replace it, no matter what happened
to it (except loss of it).

Picked up some really nice lenses on Ebay for very good prices.
Just went to the Caymans this past weekend and took over 700 pics.
I am a Nikon believer, awesome photos.
So get an SLR, you will be glad you did.

[Hexis]

Sony has aquired Konica Minolta's SLR assets.
So say what you want about their point and shoot's
(I cant speak for those, Muzikman did though),
but they are going to be 3rd in SLR's if not 2nd immediately.

My general rule of thumb is: If it stores images via Memory Stick, don't bother with it.

Sony may have purchased their way into thirsd place in a market that has two very strong players: Canon and Nikon. They are not going to put a noticable dent into either company's market share.

I'm not saying no one will buy a Sony DSLR, just no one that is well informed will.

[Muzikman]

I have owned both P&S Sony's and a pusdo SLR (D770) and was not impressed with either. Though these were older systems and the D770 was way a head of it's time, it just did not live up to the Canon and Nikon P&S's.

The other problem is that Minolta never even made a decent digital camera, so even if Sony bought them, it's not like it increased their ability and technology 10 fold or anything.

[going_home]

My general rule of thumb is: If it stores images via Memory Stick, don't bother with it.

Sony may have purchased their way into thirsd place in a market that has two very strong players: Canon and Nikon. They are not going to put a noticable dent into either company's market share.

I'm not saying no one will buy a Sony DSLR, just no one that is well informed will.

If not with memory then how do you store the images ?
I KNOW you cant mean film.

Oh by the way, heres a green mag for you:

http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/?action=view&current=555f029a.jpg

[Muzikman]

If not with memory then how do you store the images ?
I KNOW you cant mean film.

Oh by the way, heres a green mag for you:

http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/?action=view&current=555f029a.jpg

He was talking about the Crappy Memory-Sticks that Sony uses. He wan't real digital media like Compact Flash.

[Cameo]

Sony has aquired Konica Minolta's SLR assets.
So say what you want about their point and shoot's
(I cant speak for those, Muzikman did though),
but they are going to be 3rd in SLR's if not 2nd immediately.

Anyway I bought a Nikon D50 and I love it.
Dont waste your time and money on a camera you ultimately wont be happy with.
Go ahead and get a serious camera, you wont be sorry.
The D50's were the same price new on Ebay as they were at the local Ritz Camera
so I got it there, and it came with 18 digital camera/printing/Photoshop classes.
They are the only place I know that offered total replacement insurance.
Its only about 100.00 a year. If they cant fix it, they replace it, no matter what happened
to it (except loss of it).

Picked up some really nice lenses on Ebay for very good prices.
Just went to the Caymans this past weekend and took over 700 pics.
I am a Nikon believer, awesome photos.
So get an SLR, you will be glad you did.

Nikon are ok.. but the lenses you get for them are CRAP cheaply made. plastic. ect..... and iso ranges suck!!!. ?sure they are 100 less then the cannon, but you can get much better quality lenses for the cannon at resonable rate (in comparison to the nikon)
take your d50 and go into any indoor low light situation.. you will wish you were super de duper in photoshop or you will wish you bought a cannon...

[Muzikman]

Canon and Nikon lenses are so comprable (sp?) now that one is just about as good as the other, they almost cost the same too. The difference is Canon always comes out with the better stuff first. Canon had better glass than Nikon, then Nikon got better glass. Canon had IS first, then Nikon came out with VR. It's all the same. The trick is to stay with Canon or Nikon glass. When you start to stray into the Sigma, Tamron, etc.. lenses you start to see less quality glass. Now that all being said, sure you can get plastic barrel Nikon lenses, but Canon also makes cheap lenses, so again, all evens out in the end.

Now, Canon does have one over on Nikon when it comes to sensors. The Canon CMOS is much better at high ISO than the Nikon CCD.

Canon also has the edge when it comes to bodies. Canon is always one up on Nikon, the only thing is, when Nikon releases their comparable body, they always add that one little feature Canon should have had.

Also, Nikon is now GPS compatible where Canon is not and as far as I know, they don't plan on it any time soon, which bums me out.

[Hexis]

If not with memory then how do you store the images ?
I KNOW you cant mean film.

Memory Stick Wiki entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_stick)
CompactFlash Wiki entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CompactFlash)

They are quite different. SD is ok for some things, but pretty limited capacity. There is a new SDHC standard which allows for capacties of great than 2GB. SD has one nice feature: no pins. The only real bad aspect of CF is the pins in the camera.

I have heard horror stories of a pin that breaks off in a big CF card, (since the pins are in the camera, that camera is not functional). Then that card with the pin broken off in it goes into the backup camera, bending the corresponding pin, also taking out that camera. Ugh. I think that's a pretty rare possability situation. I would love to see a CF2 standard that had a slightly longer slot, and some sort of adaptor you could put on CF cards and make them work. Maybe add a few pins so you can address more than 137GB.

[Hexis]

Nikon are ok.. but the lenses you get for them are CRAP cheaply made. plastic. ect..... and iso ranges suck!!!. ?sure they are 100 less then the cannon, but you can get much better quality lenses for the cannon at resonable rate (in comparison to the nikon)
take your d50 and go into any indoor low light situation.. you will wish you were super de duper in photoshop or you will wish you bought a cannon...

Are you comparing Nikon's low end glass with Canon L glass? They have pretty compariable lineups on the Pro end. If you look at only the mid/low end stuff, it's pretty similar. Some differences, but for the most part quite similar in cost, build quality and resolving power.

Canon is quick to market with new technology. Nikon tends to wait a bit and offer a more refined version later. I can appreciate both approaches. I ended up making the switch to Canon from Nikon because there is no sign of a Nikon full frame sensor camera ever. It was a not that big of a deal since I didn't have a large collection of Nikkor glass.

At most sporting events you see a lot of white (Canon L Teles) glass.

[topazpaintball]

wow, this got into some intense discussion... Only on AO :p

Anyways, I'd like a lot of manual features, so i'm leaning towards the S80 right now.

[Hexis]

I don't know if I would call that a ProSumer camera, but it looks like a good model. Prob among the best that have a fully retractable lens that is covered while off.

[Indignant]

I have to say that I really love the feel and general ease-of-use I love my Pentax *ist DS. It's a great camera for not very much money. But if I had to choose over I might go with Canon because of the economics, and the lens prices and selection are good.

[Hexis]

I took a quick look at the Pentax lenses. Do they really not have any glass longer than 200mm? And no primes above 100mm?

[Steelrat]

At most sporting events you see a lot of white (Canon L Teles) glass.

There is a reason they make the L zooms white, and you just pointed it out. ;)

From what I've read, Canon L series are better lenses than anything put out by Nikon. I made my decision to purchase a 20D partly because of the quality of the lens offerings. The other reason is because of Canon's EXCELLENT customer service.

http://img420.imageshack.us/img420/9884/water9jm.jpg

[Hexis]

I have not used high end Nikkor glass on my 5D or anything, but from what I have read the Pro gear on both sides is pretty comparable. Canon has IS in all the fast tele primes. Nikon's longest VR prime is 300mm. That's a big deal to sports folks.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Canon fan. Love my 5D. Love the 1Ds mk2. Love the L glass I own, need more. I just think Nikon deserves a fiar shake. It's not like any of the lenses are strong enough for the current sensors. On the 5D you are pushing the lenses ability to resolve detal (on all except the highest end primes). On the 1Ds mk2, it's beyond pretty much all of the lenses except a couple primes in their ideal apertures. If the 1Ds mk3 (or whatever is announced in Sept) is really 22MP, I would expect to see a totally new line of L glass that can actually resolve well over 30MP.

[Indignant]

I took a quick look at the Pentax lenses. Do they really not have any glass longer than 200mm? And no primes above 100mm?

I've got a 70-210mm Pentax sitting on the shelf behind me.