problems with ABTOCMEPTb

[Mescalito]

I am posting on behalf of another AO'er and myself. You "Sold" us items and we paid for them. Which we never recived. We got promises of returns and exchanges. We replied to get the response of silence. PLEASE AVOID ABTOCMEPTb. Several people have "purchased" items off of him and have got "stiffed" in the mail. Use your head and boycott this P.O.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DeVioSiTY]

Shouldn't this be in the feedback thread?

[Steelrat]

Shouldn't this be in the feedback thread?

That guy is selling so much stuff, if there is an issue is should be made known in a public setting. I never mind seeing a good "heads-up."

[guysdaman]

That guy is selling so much stuff, if there is an issue is should be made known in a public setting. I never mind seeing a good "heads-up."

Hear! Hear!

[ABTOCMEPTb]

Dude Are you kidding me??? I told you to send item back to the address on the box and as soon as I get it I will overnight you the correct item.

Admins can visit my PM inbox and outbox and check for all replys I sent and for "I AM SORRY" message I got from original poster of this thread where he admits posting while drunk.

As I said in feedback area, I am sorry for my mistake but I need to get wrong item first.

I made over 50 transactions here on this forum. Only 2 problems and in both situations buyer refuse to send back item first. I am sorry but I got less chances to recover my item especialy after seeing how hostile you are.

As I said countless times: Send item back and I either fully refund you or overnight you correct item. What can be easier?

[Rudz]

Ill stick up for ABTOCMEPTb..he's a great guy..and he said he's tryin to fix the situation....doesn't help posting when drunk...but than again I do it all the time..

[BerSerK]

I don't want to take any side on this story but just add something to think about.

I've seen similar situation all the time on ebay, once I found a deal for an angel and a cocker for like 600$US, I begin to check the seller's feedback and it was positive all the time except for like 3 items that were paintball related so I decide to email the guy to see how he would respond. The 3 items were paintball tech. DVDs for angel markers selling for like 20$US and the buyers left negative because they thougth they were actually getting an angel marker...I mean WTF. The guy offered them a refund if they shipped back the DVD minus shipping fees and they refused, never retracting the negative feedback.

I've delt with a lot of people, from online store to joe somebody and you know what, **** happens in life. People should be judge on their action, when you mess up it's sad but there's a world of possibilities to fix the situation to make everyone happy. In this case the seller seems willing to fix his mistake so why not go with it.

Another thing is cross-shipping, it's pretty much never a solution except if the seller has some way to be sure that he will get what he should, money or goods.

just my 2 cents and well I notice I kinda took a side... :rolleyes:

[master_alexander]

yep... stuff does happen, and when somebody does think they are getting screwed they lock up and if it isint their way its a scam. bad part is that both parties end up like this, so it gets hard to deal with.

now Mescalito, according to ABTOCMEPTb, according to his post he gave you the option of a full refund or overnight you the correct item. is that true? i would not see why he would say that and then not keep up to his word.

Most scammers either sell or trade something and you dont get anything at all, and no response from them.

[Jackel411]

Dude.. it happens if he accidentally shipped you the wrong item it is sorta the nice step for you to send the wrong item back....

Hell.. It happens alot. For instance Ive shipped the wrong part at the same time to two different people.. I switched mailing lables.. it took me a week to get straited out but I did it and offered a refund for the parts if wished. Hell Im pretty sure I shipped a half drank bottle of Vault with a phantom today... I was packing the thing at like 4 AM and lost a bottle of soda

[mag_lover05]

he will send you the correct item, just ship back the wrong item to him, and he will OVER NIGHT IT to you, or give you a full refund!!! what is so hard to understand? and if you posted while drunk, your the bad buyer.

[Steelrat]

It's pretty tacky to ask the buyer to pay to return an incorrect item. In the feedback thread, the seller (What the hell does that name even mean???) stated that companies like actionvillage will not pay for you to return incorrect merchandise. I hate to bust his bubble, but comparing his actions to those of a major online retailer is pretty silly. If I ship the wrong thing out, I am responsible, and I should have to pay the shipping to have it returned.

[BerSerK]

I agree with that part, the buyer should not have to pay for a mistake on the seller side because the buyer already paid one time for shipping but got the wrong item.

[Muzikman]

I too would pay to have the item returned to me if it was my mistake. I would then get the right item out right away. If you plan on selling a lot of stuff, get a FedEx or UPS account and then they can just ship it back to you using your account. Simple and good business.

ow I do find it rude that someone would come in here and post about how the person sucks when the person is trying to work with the buyer to solve the problem.

So in my mind, both are wrong in some way.

[back2integrity]

Hey guys, just to let you know ABTOCMEPTb likes to appear good on the forums, but in private he is quite the opposite. He CLAIMS that he'll ship us the new item, but then he ignores all your PM's once you want to do it. He has totally ignored my last few PMs, yet he has found time to make about 20 different posts during that same time period.

I bought a package that included a nice Boomstick barrel. Instead, he sent me an old beat up All American Barrel. He claims in his posts that all I have to do is send it back to him and he'll exchange it... but this becomes quite a problem when he refuses to give me his address for me to send it back to. Also, I probably wouldn't mind so much paying out of my pocket to send it back to him, except for the fact that he has already ripped me off on about $12 worth of other shipping related issues, so now I need to pay another $4 on top of that?? This is just one of 4 problems that I have with him, but i'm not going to go into it all here, you can read his feedback thread for that. I'm just letting you know that he is not a man of his word as he likes to claim here on this thread. Sorry.

[ABTOCMEPTb]

I am not trying to be bad or good here. Clearly I screwed up by sending 2 wrong items out of 50+ transaction.

Fact to the metter is that neither of this two buyers are willing to cooperate. I am ready to take all losses and issue full refund just to make it up for my mistake.

This last dude bought off me tons of different brand new stuff at a dirt cheap price. And got it all as promised. Every little thing except 1 barrel? Am I a criminal or scammer after that?

I did 2 mistakes out of 50+ transactions. People were sending me Xmag for evoluation before I made payment and I paid it full as soon as I got the marker. Some people know me outside this forum in real life and can vouch that I never scammed anyone and always send or pay whatever I have to send or pay.

Once again, I am ready to send correct items overnight or issue full refund. Just send everything to the address on boxes as I told you in PMs and emails. Yes you will have to pay for shipping. But I will have to pay overnight fees. Do you preffer me to send it parcel 9-10 business days? Than I send you $3 to cover shipping. Does this fix this situation?

P.S. I was thinking does it really worth it to continue this thread and do all this worthless "internet fighting". But I desided. Screw you guys. This forum is my home as much as yours. And I am not gonna let you badmouth me over my 2 petty mistakes. One drunk person and one cheap buyer are not all people I had business with.

[Lohman446]

How much time has everyone involved wasted over $4 in shipping? How bad do both sides look over this public argument? I know I'm going to hear something about principle and such, but you guys need to consider the cost to gain ratio of what you are doing - both sides.

[SCpoloRicker]

Screw-up, pay shipping to make it right.

/$0.02

[Lohman446]

Screw-up, pay shipping to make it right.

/$0.02

I agree. As a seller you have an obligation, both moral and legal, to fufill your end of the contract that was entered into on agreement of selling and paying for the terms of that. Now granted as most people don't write in contract language you might have to look at your exact obligations, but you there is a moral obligation to make your sales right.

/not idle chat... lost $50 last month on USPS shipping errors.

[ABTOCMEPTb]

All options were offered.

Here is just an example of unedited post from my feedback
http://automags.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2148053&postcount=6

[Mescalito]

If all options are offered, WHY DONT YOU GIVE ME THE ADDRESS TO SEND THE ITEM BACK TOO?!? You have nothing to be afraid of.... RIGHT?!?

"his post= As I said to you in all emails. Return everything to me for a full refund or send me back items I requested and I refund you $5." This kind of crap doesnt mean a THING to me if I do not have an address to acompany it. You make you own hell, capitalist swine!

[Chaos_Theory!]

If all options are offered, WHY DONT YOU GIVE ME THE ADDRESS TO SEND THE ITEM BACK TOO?!? You have nothing to be afraid of.... RIGHT?!?

"his post= As I said to you in all emails. Return everything to me for a full refund or send me back items I requested and I refund you $5." This kind of crap doesnt mean a THING to me if I do not have an address to acompany it. You make you own hell, capitalist swine!

Cant you just look on the package the stuff was sent to you in. O wait, your prob drunk again. :rolleyes:

[FooTemps]

There is no crediblity if the guy is drunk and complaining. Just saying my $.02

Also, the seller should compensate for return shipping. I know that when I sold some parts and they got lost int he mail, I sent a full refund. Then the mo happened to disappear too, so I sent ANOTHER. I'm sure that you could compensate for shipping.

[Rudz]

There is no crediblity if the guy is drunk and complaining. Just saying my $.02

Also, the seller should compensate for return shipping. I know that when I sold some parts and they got lost int he mail, I sent a full refund. Then the mo happened to disappear too, so I sent ANOTHER. I'm sure that you could compensate for shipping.


So they lost the parts, And the M.O.? Something fishy about that one.

[FooTemps]

So they lost the parts, And the M.O.? Something fishy about that one.

i had confirmation on the parts and money. didn't get any for either. I'm guess it got stolen along the way. I kinda just said screw it for the last one and sent it out and stopped caring.

[jenarelJAM]

Something bothers me... when the company you PAY to transport goods, loses your goods, they get to say, "oh well, these things happen." But anywhere else, if someone loses your goods, they have to replace them. Guess its just one of the injustices of the system... :cry:

Mods, please close this thread, It proves nothing, and these sort of deals should be kept private instead of bringing it out where people can ridicule each other. I admit, if this was a simple, "THIS PERSON IS A SCAMMER" thread, it would be a good heads-up, but as it is, it's a deal gone bad, with the seller at least trying to fix it, if not 100% completely satisfactorily to the buyer.

[PnueMagger]

Ok AO!!! Let's all get our $.02 in here. Thenn soon we'll have $4.00 to cover the shipping.

/$.02

[tyrion2323]

Something bothers me... when the company you PAY to transport goods, loses your goods, they get to say, "oh well, these things happen." But anywhere else, if someone loses your goods, they have to replace them. Guess its just one of the injustices of the system... :cry:

What's even worse is that the company that you're paying to transport your goods says, "oh, and if you don't want us to steal, lose or break your goods, you have to pay us ridiculously high fees on top of the shipping charge!"

[Grey Goose]

I think it's the seller's responsibility to send out the correct item ASAP and include payment to ship the incorrect item back. It's not the buyer's fault the wrong item was sent, and it's certainly not the buyer's responsibility to satisfy the seller in regards to backshipment.

[Arstron]

He said he would refund the shipping cost. Also dont forget to read under Mescalito's name which will be there for the next 6 days....

[Grey Goose]

He said he would refund the shipping cost. Also dont forget to read under Mescalito's name which will be there for the next 6 days....

My point is that (IMHO) a seller who ships the wrong item has the onus of correcting the mistake. Why should the buyer have to send the incorrect item back first? Why should the buyer have to be refunded shipment? You just can't justify that to me. The seller should ship out the correct item, asap, regardless. The seller should send out money to cover shipment. That's just my opinion. Seller made the mistake, seller should proactively fix the mistake.

Being banned doesn't mean anything other than a moderater thinks you're a tool.

[ABTOCMEPTb]

The only reason why I refuse to send it first is because I got absolutely no protection in of case buyer refuses to send me wrong item after receiving the right one.

Buyer got protection from Paypal, from Credit Card, from Ebay while seller got none.

Ok, lets say, I sent correct item first. And buyer lost any interest in me after we went trough all this "dirty laundry" thing on forum. So what would be your advise for me in case I dont get my wrong item? Contact who? You? Police? IFCC?

My only hope to get my item back is to hold correct item here. I hold it not because I am such a POS that doesnt want to send right item but because I got all reasons to beleive that I can get F'ed on both items.

I sent PM with my SHIPPING INFO for returns again on 5/26/06. Do you think I got "wrong" items back? Think again.....

[Grey Goose]

You still have the buyer's payment, and have not sent correct item. Period. End of story.

What you don't get is that YOU have not followed through on a deal. You're in no position to claim someone else may not keep their word, because you haven't.

Man, I personally wouldn't send back anything until I got the correct item.

Again, you still have payment. Buyer has nothing but wrong item. Your burden to fix.

[ABTOCMEPTb]

I would be happy to get everything back and refund 100%. Not a problem.

Not a single official business will exchange you an item unless you ship faulty/wrong item first. Period.

[Steelrat]

I would be happy to get everything back and refund 100%. Not a problem.

Not a single official business will exchange you an item unless you ship faulty/wrong item first. Period.

Are you an official business? This is the second time you have compared your practices with those of retailers, even though you are not one.

Oh, and BTW, I hate to bust your bubble, but plenty of retailers will ship a replacement before you ship the faulty/wrong item back. Cingular just did it with my RAZR. Twice. They also sent a box with prepaid postage for the faulty RAZRs. Fujitsu also did it when the hard drive on my laptop went bad, shipping me a replacement before I sent the bad one. Twice.

[Steelrat]

The only reason why I refuse to send it first is because I got absolutely no protection in of case buyer refuses to send me wrong item after receiving the right one.

Buyer got protection from Paypal, from Credit Card, from Ebay while seller got none.

Ok, lets say, I sent correct item first. And buyer lost any interest in me after we went trough all this "dirty laundry" thing on forum. So what would be your advise for me in case I dont get my wrong item? Contact who? You? Police? IFCC?

My only hope to get my item back is to hold correct item here. I hold it not because I am such a POS that doesnt want to send right item but because I got all reasons to beleive that I can get F'ed on both items.

I sent PM with my SHIPPING INFO for returns again on 5/26/06. Do you think I got "wrong" items back? Think again.....

What protection does the buyer have? You already have shipping information showing that the package got there, so what guarantees would there be to ensure you would ship their items out once they return the incorrect item? The argument works both ways.

Think of it this way. If you send them the replacement first, and they don't send the wrong item back, then they have two items, but you still have the money that was paid to you. If they send the item back to you, and you fail to ship out the correct item, then you have the goods AND the money, while they have nothing.

[Beemer]

Rock on Steel

[Grey Goose]

Lots of good businesses will ship replacements first.

You're just making yourself look worse, you know.

[ABTOCMEPTb]

I honestly care less how do I appeal to you personaly or to anyone else. I know that I am not shipping correct item untill i get "wrong" item. So you can dump all kind of BS on me here I still would not change my opinion.

I am willing to correct my mistake but I am not willing to bend over because I made one. :nono:

[Lohman446]

I would be happy to get everything back and refund 100%. Not a problem.

Not a single official business will exchange you an item unless you ship faulty/wrong item first. Period.

:rofl: I bet you tomorrow if any of the businesses I deal with shipped me the wrong item I could have the right item shipped immediatly to me as well as shipping costs on the wrong item. There are a lot of "official businesses" that do not follow your theory on that. And your a seller on AO, you have been paid for a correct item, you have not sent it. You are in breech of contract until they are shipped the agreed upon item - not the buyer.

I think you need to get off your high pedestal and make it right. Personally I think you have gone way to far in dealing with this in public, your defenses just make you look worse, you would have been better to state your position and then shut up. When I first saw it I shrugged it off as a simple misunderstanding. Now having seen your continued attitude towards it, I no longer think it that simple. I doubt I'm the only person.

[Steelrat]

I am willing to correct my mistake but I am not willing to bend over because I made one. :nono:

Bend over? The buyers paid you money in good faith, and you sent them the wrong item. Now you are dictating the terms by which they will get what they paid for. The only people getting bent over are them.

[Rudz]

im sorry i originally stood up for this guy, i take it back, hes shady, ive noticed in more ways in one on this forum, he sold an xmag, than decided he wanted it, send payment back, then put is for sale again , for a higher price

[ABTOCMEPTb]

I never sold anything to you. I never returned any payment to you. Do you have prove that I sold you something or maybe you can prove any money return I made for my xmag?

In all my transaction I canceled 1 item: $15 grip that I sold and than decided to use on minimag.

I think you changed your "opinion" after I refused to trade xmag for your viking and after I posted about shady situation with carbon grips.

Well done but I want you to know I am not looking for neither support or hate from any member. Wrongfully shipped barrel doesnt hurt my mind.

[Rudz]

you told me you had decided to keep your xmag, and returned payment to the person who bought it, then turned around and wanted more for it, when it had already been sold, thats what im talkin about.

[ABTOCMEPTb]

I told you that so you can stop annoy me with your constant trade offers for viking. And I repost sale post as soon as I got marker back from Tunaman. With a lot of extras and ofcourse with a bigger price. Programmer, barrel kit and warpfeed setup worth more than $250.

[SpecialBlend2786]

:ninja:

[ABTOCMEPTb]

http://www.amerimama.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/icon_argue.gif

[Steelrat]

I told you that so you can stop annoy me with your constant trade offers for viking. And I repost sale post as soon as I got marker back from Tunaman. With a lot of extras and ofcourse with a bigger price. Programmer, barrel kit and warpfeed setup worth more than $250.

So...you lied to him?

[CoolHand]

Steel, cross shipping works fine, but I have never, not once had a business cross ship me something without me giving a CC number to them first, so they could charge me if I didn't ship back the incorrect item. A lot of places won't do it period.

I think the PB world is completely ate up with this mistaken notion that the customer is always right, and that every time a deal craps up, it's the seller who is shady.

If I have noticed anything over my years in this business, it is that PB players in general are about 30% more likely to screw you than other people I have dealt with. I have tried the whole "Oh, I'm so sorry, let me cross ship you a new item, you can return the other when it gets there using this prepaid UPS label I included." Yeah, that never worked. Every time I've tried it, I got to pay for two (2) new UPS labels, AND I sent another part, only to see none of it ever again. I cannot even recall how many times I got skinned, but it was quite enough to stop me from cross shipping anymore.

The seller paid up front, how is sending back the bad part and waiting for the new one any different that the situation he was in when the deal started? He can even get all of his money back, and just go someplace else entirely. I think the seller is being as fair as he can be, considering the climate we all deal in now a days.

I agree with the seller, in that I too would not issue a refund, or a replacement part until the incorrect item was returned. Now, that said, if it was my error, I may or may not pay for the shipping, mostly depending on the customer's attitude (Yes, you read that right. If you're a dick to me over an honest and simple mistake, don't expect me to go out of my way to assist you anymore, nuff said.)

You all can be mighty cavalier when it's someone else's money, but I'd wager the tune would be a good bit different if you were the guy everyone was leaning on to take the risk.

/Hope I don't get bant again for saying something people don't like.
//Oh well, the vacation was nice anyway.
/// :cheers:

[Lohman446]

As sympathetic as I am to the problems this presents the seller you have to break this down a little.

Buyer and seller agreed upon a price for an agreed upon part

Buyer paid agreed upon price

Seller did not send agreed upon part

Who's in breech of the contract entered into for the sale (not all contracts are fancy documents)? Its not the buyer. Well I agree that the seeming lack of morals that is displayed so often in paintball is an issue, and I hate to say it... I am not the one who decided to enter into a business that depended on a customer base with a less than stellar track record.

As to "cavalier with someone elses money" I think one need just look at my track record on fixing problems caused with shipping on the trades I have done. Obviously not on a business level. However, I can assure you my business record of making things right is not far different on a business level.

Personally, at this point, if the seller was not being civil with me anymore, and because I can be a jerk, I'd send a certified letter of demand and then start the dispute process if I paid by credit card or paypal.

[hitech]

/Hope I don't get bant again for saying something people don't like.


Damn, when did YOU get banned?!?!? :wow:

[Steelrat]

Steel, cross shipping works fine, but I have never, not once had a business cross ship me something without me giving a CC number to them first, so they could charge me if I didn't ship back the incorrect item. A lot of places won't do it period.

I think the PB world is completely ate up with this mistaken notion that the customer is always right, and that every time a deal craps up, it's the seller who is shady.

If I have noticed anything over my years in this business, it is that PB players in general are about 30% more likely to screw you than other people I have dealt with. I have tried the whole "Oh, I'm so sorry, let me cross ship you a new item, you can return the other when it gets there using this prepaid UPS label I included." Yeah, that never worked. Every time I've tried it, I got to pay for two (2) new UPS labels, AND I sent another part, only to see none of it ever again. I cannot even recall how many times I got skinned, but it was quite enough to stop me from cross shipping anymore.

The seller paid up front, how is sending back the bad part and waiting for the new one any different that the situation he was in when the deal started? He can even get all of his money back, and just go someplace else entirely. I think the seller is being as fair as he can be, considering the climate we all deal in now a days.

I agree with the seller, in that I too would not issue a refund, or a replacement part until the incorrect item was returned. Now, that said, if it was my error, I may or may not pay for the shipping, mostly depending on the customer's attitude (Yes, you read that right. If you're a dick to me over an honest and simple mistake, don't expect me to go out of my way to assist you anymore, nuff said.)

You all can be mighty cavalier when it's someone else's money, but I'd wager the tune would be a good bit different if you were the guy everyone was leaning on to take the risk.

/Hope I don't get bant again for saying something people don't like.
//Oh well, the vacation was nice anyway.
/// :cheers:

Like I said, I have had two retailers send me replacement items WITHOUT an CC#s or any other form of payment. Let me quote ABTOCMEPTb:


Not a single official business will exchange you an item unless you ship faulty/wrong item first. Period

Wrong.

And I don't know about you, but I will bust my hump to make the buyer happy. I know that you deal with FAR more people than I do, and you actually run a business, so that makes our cicumstances somewhat different.

[Steelrat]

yes I did.....Are you angry at me for that? :p Like I give a flying *foul word here* about what you think.

P.S. I did not have sex with this women. :nono:

I changed the color of the quoted text from white to red for you, so everyone can see what you typed. Next time, if you don't have the guts to put it in plain view, don't put it there at all.

Why anyone would defend your behavior is beyond me.

EDIT: I removed the wording he had in there. Just go and highlight his post if you want to see it.

[CoolHand]

Damn, when did YOU get banned?!?!? :wow:

:rofl:

When Army banned a dude for being a jackass in the Recruiters sponsor PB thread, he had to ban me too, because I had a post with stars in it. Rules say no cursing, and I was not :ninja: enough to realize that I had (I curse like a sailor in real life, so it kinda carries over sometimes, I don't even realize it anymore).

But it's all good, if I gotta get banned so Army could deal with that dude, I got no problem with it at all.

[hitech]

:rofl:

...in the Recruiters sponsor PB thread...

Ah, that thread. I'm going to leave that one alone... :ninja:

:cheers:

[CoolHand]

I changed the color of the quoted text from white to red for you, so everyone can see what you typed. Next time, if you don't have the guts to put it in plain view, don't put it there at all.

Why anyone would defend your behavior is beyond me.

lol

I totally missed the white text. That was rather childish of him.

How did you run across that? Do you just highlight stuff out of habit?

I also think you're right, in that things are different for a business. For some reason, people seem to feel justified in screwing a business, whereas they are a little less likely to do that same thing to an individual. I guess I've been on the business side for so long, I just don't see things the same way anymore.

[ABTOCMEPTb]

I changed the color of the quoted text from white to red for you, so everyone can see what you typed. Next time, if you don't have the guts to put it in plain view, don't put it there at all.

Why anyone would defend your behavior is beyond me.

EDIT: I removed the wording he had in there. Just go and highlight his post if you want to see it.

Do you really that stupid to think I posted something in hopes no one find it? here is biggest LOL ever special for you.

Because you gotta get it into your thinking box that people got different opinions in this world. That is why you are intitled to your opinion but its just that - your opinion. Makes no differense for other people.

If my attepts to fix this situation are nopt enoughto stop BS talk I am gonna post all kind of crap here just to pi$$ you off or to highlight my posts....

[MarkM]

Fix this via PM's when you are BOTH off of your bans. Had you been sensible you wouldn't be banned now.