From WWII to Current (photo)

[RoadDawg]

Saw this photo and thought it was pretty cool.

http://www.warbird-photos.com/pofairshow05-1/images/IMG_5466.JPG

[Steelrat]

Saw this photo and thought it was pretty cool.

http://www.warbird-photos.com/pofairshow05-1/images/IMG_5466.JPG

Love those old Hellcats. The airforce does the same thing at airshows, and calls them "Heritage flights."

[geekwarrior]

saw something almost exactly like this about a month ago at the March Airshow, CA, along with the F22, the stealth F117, the Thunderbirds, and a bunch of other planes. :headbang:

[Pump Scout]

Not trying to pick a nit, but those are F8F Bearcats. :)

[Konigballer]

He's right, and the Bearcats never saw combat in WW2.

[SpitFire1299]

Still.. its a cool picture. :)

[geekwarrior]

that jet is probably about to fall out of the sky to keep pace

[Army]

He's right, and the Bearcats never saw combat in WW2.
However, they were issued to VF-19 in May of 1945, which makes them WWII aircraft.

[cowboy_00]

Yea i was gonna say the same about the Jet...dang thing could blow the wings Off those other 2.

[Steelrat]

Not trying to pick a nit, but those are F8F Bearcats. :)

You got me, I didn't look closely enough at the canopies.

[Cow hunter]

i just recently went to a military show in upstate NY which was at a military jet meuseum, and i must say, there were some incredible vechiles they had. the sheer size of some of those jets is incredible, and the weapons, whoo there was some power in them.

[magman007]

that jet is probably about to fall out of the sky to keep pace


not true at all, if any thing, the bear cats are at red line trying to keep pace, the f18 super hornet i believe has a landing speed of ~150, and thats on a normal runway, either way, the bear cat tops out at 424mph, which would actually be a comfortable cruise for the f18, not to mention, that the f18 in slow flight, with its massive amount of thrust, could stay aloft comfortably at very slow speeds.

[Steelrat]

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/3997/heritage1qn.jpg

[cowboy_00]

Thats what he was saying, is that its harder for the F18 to fly THAT slow. and we know it can stay like that, but whats the fun.

you wanna blow some windows out right?

[Recon by Fire]

Here is my idea of modern-WW2 retro:
http://dvdmedia.ign.com/dvd/image/FINAL_COUNTDOWN-3_1081799135.jpg
http://dvdmedia.ign.com/dvd/image/FINAL_COUNTDOWN-6_1081799136.jpg

Splash one Zero! :shooting:

[magman007]

Thats what he was saying, is that its harder for the F18 to fly THAT slow. and we know it can stay like that, but whats the fun.

you wanna blow some windows out right?


but really, it isnt hard for it to fly that slow... thats what im saying. and by no means, is 424 slow, the speed of sound at sea level is around 760mph...

[rkjunior303]

man, i love those P-51s.

[Steelrat]

man, i love those P-51s.

I do to, but what constantly amazes me in that picture is the F-22. The lines look so clean, and yet it looks the same way with it's normal combat load, since everything is carried internally.

Has anyone else seen the video of the F-22 aerial display. The plane performed manuevers that were just mindboggling.

[Steelrat]

Here is my idea of modern-WW2 retro:
http://dvdmedia.ign.com/dvd/image/FINAL_COUNTDOWN-3_1081799135.jpg
http://dvdmedia.ign.com/dvd/image/FINAL_COUNTDOWN-6_1081799136.jpg

Splash one Zero! :shooting:


ITS THE FINAL COUNTDOWN!! Do Do Do Do, Do Do Do Do Do, Do Do Do Do , Do Do Do Do Do...

[Muzikman]

Planes, planes, and more planes! ;)

http://jbeamphotos.com/albums/WingsOverPittsburgh05/wingsoverpittsburgh2005_050709_115948_2231.sized.j pg

http://jbeamphotos.com/albums/WingsOverPittsburgh05/wingsoverpittsburgh2005_050709_155754_2571.sized.j pg

http://jbeamphotos.com/albums/WingsOverPittsburgh05/wingsoverpittsburgh2005_050709_155632_2557.sized.j pg

ok, so I just wanted to show off some of my photos from last years air show (the watermark is wrong). ;)

[rkjunior303]

Has anyone else seen the video of the F-22 aerial display. The plane performed manuevers that were just mindboggling.


it has engine nozzles that move, like the Mig-29 right?

[Steelrat]

it has engine nozzles that move, like the Mig-29 right?

Well, the normal Mig-29 doesn't have thrust vectoring, though later models do. Usually, thrust vectoring is associated with the Sukhoi Su-37 (or other Sukhoi birds).

The manuever that stuck out the most in my mind was one where the F-22 started to perform a vertical climb. After a bit of verticle climb, it essentially stopped dead, tipped forwards, and started level flight. At no point did it appear to stall out, drop, or lose control.

As cool as it is, though, hypermanueverability is not what it used to be since the advent of HOBS heaters and HMS. Plus, the F-22 will most probably nail you with an AIM-120 before you even know its there. Or fry your electronics with the radar upgrade they have planned in the next couple of years that turns the radar into an EMP weapon. The Raptor is so scary its not even funny.

[warbeak2099]

ITS THE FINAL COUNTDOWN!! Do Do Do Do, Do Do Do Do Do, Do Do Do Do , Do Do Do Do Do...

OMG, I thought I was the only one who had seen that movie! So good! Kirk Douglas gaaaaaah!!!! What a great movie.

[Steelrat]

OMG, I thought I was the only one who had seen that movie! So good! Kirk Douglas gaaaaaah!!!! What a great movie.

Yeah, it was just a bummer that the planes didn't get to waste the Japanese fleet.

[Konigballer]

"As cool as it is, though, hypermanueverability is not what it used to be since the advent of HOBS heaters and HMS. Plus, the F-22 will most probably nail you with an AIM-120 before you even know its there. Or fry your electronics with the radar upgrade they have planned in the next couple of years that turns the radar into an EMP weapon. The Raptor is so scary its not even funny."



Thats why I hate all this crap! I don't like many aircraft, or air combat history after the Korean War. In WW1, fighter pilots in open cockpit biplanes would sometimes get in so close to their intended kill that blood and/or oil from their opponents would spray their goggled faces. :shooting: Now THATs combat, not some stupid missle that flys out to kill your opponent before you ever even see him! :p

[Steelrat]

"As cool as it is, though, hypermanueverability is not what it used to be since the advent of HOBS heaters and HMS. Plus, the F-22 will most probably nail you with an AIM-120 before you even know its there. Or fry your electronics with the radar upgrade they have planned in the next couple of years that turns the radar into an EMP weapon. The Raptor is so scary its not even funny."



Thats why I hate all this crap! I don't like many aircraft, or air combat history after the Korean War. In WW1, fighter pilots in open cockpit biplanes would sometimes get in so close to their intended kill that blood and/or oil from their opponents would spray their goggled faces. :shooting: Now THATs combat, not some stupid missle that flys out to kill your opponent before you ever even see him! :p

I'd rather waste my opponent at long range without them knowing I was even there, but thats just me.

[rkjunior303]

Well, the normal Mig-29 doesn't have thrust vectoring, though later models do. Usually, thrust vectoring is associated with the Sukhoi Su-37 (or other Sukhoi birds).

The manuever that stuck out the most in my mind was one where the F-22 started to perform a vertical climb. After a bit of verticle climb, it essentially stopped dead, tipped forwards, and started level flight. At no point did it appear to stall out, drop, or lose control.

As cool as it is, though, hypermanueverability is not what it used to be since the advent of HOBS heaters and HMS. Plus, the F-22 will most probably nail you with an AIM-120 before you even know its there. Or fry your electronics with the radar upgrade they have planned in the next couple of years that turns the radar into an EMP weapon. The Raptor is so scary its not even funny.

i knew it was one of those. i remember seeing an airshow video that showcased that -- it was amazing. i'm trying to find out when the local AFB has their airshow -- it should be soon... i cant find it on their site though.. hoping they have the F22 there.

[Steelrat]

i knew it was one of those. i remember seeing an airshow video that showcased that -- it was amazing. i'm trying to find out when the local AFB has their airshow -- it should be soon... i cant find it on their site though.. hoping they have the F22 there.

F-22 airshow http://semperapollo.com/Quickstart/VideoLib/Langley2006/Raptor.mpg

EDIT: Just watched it again, and DAMN! In one part, the F-22 pulls a loop, and at the top, while inverted, it essentially turns 180 degrees and completes the loop in a direction perpendicular to the one it started. And in another few scenes, it essentially replicates the famous "cobra" manuever the Russians were so proud of, where the plane is moving forward while the nose is pointed up at a very high AOA.

[rkjunior303]

that's insane.

this is replacing the F15, right?

[Steelrat]

that's insane.

this is replacing the F15, right?

Well, really the F15C, as the Raptor is primarily an air superiority fighter. Too bad we just arent buying enough of them. It's pretty stupid to not just buy a bunch, as the majority of the costs (R&D) have already been paid for.

The F-15E is a great bomb truck. The 22 can carry bombs too, but like the JSF it is capable of penetrating defenses during the early part of a conflict, rather than carrying tons of ordinance.

[Migz]

I've been in love with aircraft since I could pickup a book. These are some very cool pics. Frankly I was rooting for the YF-23 when they were having the compitition when I was in high school. We have a Air National Guard base here in Fresno and a naval air station here in Lemore so I've see military aircraft flying in and out of here pretty much all my life and frankly the sound of an afterburning turbo jet or fan is music to my ears. It looks like the base here is making a switch though from f-16 falcons to f-18 hornets. Also I remeber watching Final count down on TV when I was little and I thought it was one of the coolest time travel movies ever. I like how they do that whole time loop thing and how they bring in time paradoxes and how it effects you average joe in the movie.Frankley if I had clout in Hollywood that would be one of the movies I would remake.

[BeaverEater]

Well, really the F15C, as the Raptor is primarily an air superiority fighter. Too bad we just arent buying enough of them. It's pretty stupid to not just buy a bunch, as the majority of the costs (R&D) have already been paid for.




having a ton of them would be worthless since most of the fighting today is located in cities and buildings. What we really need is better gear for the average grunt. Not billion dollar planes.

[Steelrat]

having a ton of them would be worthless since most of the fighting today is located in cities and buildings. What we really need is better gear for the average grunt. Not billion dollar planes.

Who is to say what the next conflict will be? I'd hate to get in a shooting match with China, and find out all we have is bomb trucks to fight their Sukhois. I'd love to get the grunts more good too, but we can't get tunnel vision and start thinking every future war is going to be an urban counter-insurgency.

[maxama10]

call me ignorant but id think we could blow china out of the sky with anything we have at the moment?

Edit: hmmm i take that back, I googled Sukhois.... I suppose we should be buying a few more of these raptors eh? How many of these things does china have though?

[Steelrat]

call me ignorant but id think we could blow china out of the sky with anything we have at the moment?

Edit: hmmm i take that back, I googled Sukhois.... I suppose we should be buying a few more of these raptors eh? How many of these things does china have though?

Take the google results with a grain of salt. I'm sure the first result had to do with the COPE INDIA 2004 exercise, where the Indians claimed their Sukhois trashed our F-15s. Keep in mind that they were exercises, with certain ground rules, and not just plane on plane free-for-alls. We didn't send our best AESA Eagles, werent allowed to simulate AMRAAM shots, and flew at 4 to 1 (or worse) odds, not to mention that certain missions naturally put one side at a disadvantage. We exercise to learn, not to win.

That being said, the Indian Su-37s appear to have been better than expected. China supposedly has several hundred Su-27 variants, though they are sure to buy (or make) more of them. They also have a home-grown J-10 (with those bastage Israelis helping them out, may they burn forever) which is supposed to be decent.

I don't want a close fight if push comes to shove. I want raptors to annihilate everything in the sky so the mud movers can take care of business.

[sean33]

i like the propellar planes better, They jsut seem cooler

[BeaverEater]

I realize that if it comes down to a fight with china, we will need more of them. But we need to focus at the problems at hand first before we look at the future. And since all the R&D is done with, it wont take too long to crank out some more.

[Steelrat]

I realize that if it comes down to a fight with china, we will need more of them. But we need to focus at the problems at hand first before we look at the future. And since all the R&D is done with, it wont take too long to crank out some more.

It's not like a production line just sits there waiting for more orders. Once the line is closed, it's VERY hard to start it up again.

Buying F-22s isn't whats screwing our troops. It's giving tax cuts in wartime and spending gobs of money on crap programs like the perscription drug benefit plan. Axe that stuff, and buy our troops some of the great South African wheeled APCs like the Buffalos the EOD guys are using, instead of the Humvees that were never meant to do what they are doing.

[Recon by Fire]

My Grandfather was a pilot during WW2. Has tons of old momentos like flight logs, pics, a nifty German Luger, etc... He has flown about every US plane from fighters to bombers and almost a half dozen German planes after the war also. I asked him once what plane would be his choice for combat, his immediate answer was the P-47 Thunderbolt!

http://sisnet.ssku.k12.ca.us/~msusdftp/jones/sage/the%20web%20page/P-47.jpg
It was the A-10 of its day, a flying armored tank that put serious heat down range. Me, I favor the SBD for BF1942 play, LOL. :rolleyes:

[Steelrat]

My Grandfather was a pilot during WW2. Has tons of old momentos like flight logs, pics, a nifty German Luger, etc... He has flown about every US plane from fighters to bombers and almost a half dozen German planes after the war also. I asked him once what plane would be his choice for combat, his immediate answer was the P-47 Thunderbolt!

http://sisnet.ssku.k12.ca.us/~msusdftp/jones/sage/the%20web%20page/P-47.jpg
It was the A-10 of its day, a flying armored tank that put serious heat down range. Me, I favor the SBD for BF1942 play, LOL. :rolleyes:


Gotta love the ol' Jug! I remember reading a great account from a German pilot who was chasing a damanged P-47 accross the english channel. The German has expended all his cannon rounds, and only had his 7.9mm machine guns left. The German literally emptied his guns into the Jug, with no real effect. He then pulled up next to the plane, and looked at the American pilot, who had tucked himself in front of his armored seat. The German saluted the American pilot, then returned back accross the channel.

[magman007]

the f22 is cool, and thank god we wised up and still put a cannon on it.

Each technological advancement in aviation that is made, always seems to revert back to the good ol dog fight. Sure we have tricks up our sleeves, but so does everyone else. I dont even want to recall the f4 fiasco..

sure the AMRAAM is an awesome misile with amazing capabilities, as is the phoenix, and yes many times it should work, but when you are up there, going through every emotion a human being can feel, you want the most you can get.

The f22 is a bad arse, no doubt about it, its what the f-117 should have been. the scariest thing though, and see if you can find footage of it, as i do know it is out there, is when the f22 leaves the operabale envelope. Shut off the flight computer, and you are dead in a minute of seconds. No pilot is going to keep it in the air.


I can recount stories from my friends father, whom was part of the skunk works project with the f117, one of the test pilots. He mentioned that while flight testing the beast, and through out the flight computerless tests, he had never been so scared in his life, this includes time in nam flying the f4, jet 1 in the thunderbirds, and making an emergency landing in an A330.


btw, corsair>all great uncle flew em and the jug in ww2. he loved that aircraft, until the one day that toe hook snapped :) theres nothing funnier than old black and white photos of a corsair floating in the water behind a carrier, with a huge smile on his face :)

[FromTheBack]

Here is my idea of modern-WW2 retro:
http://dvdmedia.ign.com/dvd/image/FINAL_COUNTDOWN-3_1081799135.jpg
http://dvdmedia.ign.com/dvd/image/FINAL_COUNTDOWN-6_1081799136.jpg

Splash one Zero! :shooting:


Ahh what movie is that...I saw the begining of it in my childhood and it haunts me to finish the damn thing...the concept seems so great if not hilarious.

[Recon by Fire]

Final Countdown......modern aircraft carrier goes back in time to the attack on Pearl Harbor, do they keep out of history or defend their nation....a little of both :)

[RoadDawg]

This is my favorite plane.
http://www.fredsboringpictures.com/images/Chino%2005/images/2801138%20Lockheed%20P-38J.jpg

[bleachit]

the f22 is cool, and thank god we wised up and still put a cannon on it.

The f22 is a bad arse, no doubt about it, its what the f-117 should have been. the scariest thing though, and see if you can find footage of it, as i do know it is out there, is when the f22 leaves the operabale envelope. Shut off the flight computer, and you are dead in a minute of seconds. No pilot is going to keep it in the air.



the f1117 is what it is. a first gen stealth aircraft designed to blow stuff up.

Most modern military aircraft would be a pain to fly without the flight computer. the f-16 would do the same thing, it being the first fly by wire aircraft. they are designed to be unstable so they can be highly controllable and therefore maneuverable.

and any aircraft that is flown outside of its envelope wont be pretty, thats why its outside the envelope. its not supposed to fly there. hardly something new to the f-22 design.

gah, I miss airshows... was flippin working so I couldnt make sun n fun this year.. they had an f22 there. In Niagara Falls there were some sweet airshows I went to. 4-5 years ago they had an f-16 flying side by side to a P-51. Most of my pics are in NY, I have some pretty nice ones from over the years.

anyone ever have the pleasure of a b-2 fly by? can barely hear it at all. and trying to find it while its coming towards you is near impossible until its VERY close to you. Then when its turns, it becomes huge due to is design. Very interesting to watch fly.

and the f-86 owns all. thats my favorite fighter of all time.

as far as a war with China?

American pilots are some of the best trained in the world. previous wars have proven time and again the better pilot will prevail more often than not, even against a better armed and more numerous foe. Not to mention the US has the advantage of the AWACS aircraft and massive data sharing between aircraft. way back in the mid 90's i think, there was a popular science article on the f-22. One of its capabilities was to basically shut off its radar and pick up radar signals from other aircraft. so basically the massive radar on the sukois could easily become its greatest weakness against the f22, assuming the info was correct and that is actually possible.

meh, then there is the jsf... that one is coming in larger numbers than the f22, or supposed to. it basically is a continuation of the f22 design.


I love airplanes. just finished my first semester at FIT for aeronautical science. w00t

[magman007]

ive seen b-2's doing maneuvers at school, circiling around our VOR etc, deffinitely cool. BTW, ateast with navy pilots, the israeli's are actually better pilots, they have much more drive, more determination. They have a better airforce, even if not from a technological stand point. Ive heard stories of war games with israel, where the US will put up a good fight, but ultimately the israelis end up whooping us.

[bleachit]

yeah, one of the best.... Israel has a reputation for having great pilots

[RoadDawg]

anyone ever have the pleasure of a b-2 fly by? can barely hear it at all. and trying to find it while its coming towards you is near impossible until its VERY close to you. Then when its turns, it becomes huge due to is design. Very interesting to watch fly.



I've seen a B-2 several times (the last 3 Rose Bowls) and only a F-22 once (didn't realize it was an F-22 until it had passed)

When it banks to the side it nearly disappears from the ground view. All that becomes visible is the cockpit. Definitely a wierd bird. Also they are quiet when the baffles are on but when they are off that thing is noisy. Still cool to watch. Same with the F-117.

I'm starting to think about getting into flying model airplanes. I've got my eyes on building a B-17 w/ working bomb doors and gear. Now if I could only get the financing to back it up. :rofl:

[Recon by Fire]

This is my favorite plane.
http://www.fredsboringpictures.com/images/Chino%2005/images/2801138%20Lockheed%20P-38J.jpg


P-38 Lightning! My Grandfather flew those also, said it was his choice of favorite planes to fly just for the joy of it. Very fast and manueverable. He said many pilots had trouble adjusting to the counter rotating props as opposed to single engine fighters.

I took the old guy to the Historic Flight Museum down in Galveston on his last visit to Texas. They have mostly WW2 planes there and they all still fly actively in shows and such. You should have seen his eyes light up walking into the hangar, like a 80 something year old kid!

I missed getting to the D-Day museum for June 6 :cry:

[Steelrat]

ive seen b-2's doing maneuvers at school, circiling around our VOR etc, deffinitely cool. BTW, ateast with navy pilots, the israeli's are actually better pilots, they have much more drive, more determination. They have a better airforce, even if not from a technological stand point. Ive heard stories of war games with israel, where the US will put up a good fight, but ultimately the israelis end up whooping us.

Look, I'll put it plainly. The Israelis cheat in wargames. Wargames are not about sending the planes up and letting them duke it out. Its all about setting up scenarios, and working within the rules of those scenarios. Israelis love to ignore the rules. Often, after being "killed" in a mission, the Israelis pilots would continue to engage US aircraft, and would gloat about any "kills" they scored, even after they were techinically dead.

And, as mentioned, wargames are not about winning or losing. India has been telling anyone who cares about how they defeated the Eagles sent to practice with them in COPE India 2004. What they fail to mention was that the US planes were not allowed to use simulated AMRAAMS (taking away BVR combat, our strongest suit), were limited in how they could engage, and fought 4 to 1 (or worse) odds.

Sure, there are pilots out there just as good as the USAF. But if you look at pretty much every wargame we participate in, we end up "losing" and the host country ends up gloating. Now, you can believe that EVERYONE (Germany, UK, Israel, India, Chile, Sweden, Australia, etc etc) is better than us, or you can think that maybe there is a reason behind it. Playing games and fighting a war are two very, very different things. A wise man might think that maybe we aren't showing all our cards...

[Recon by Fire]

"War Games" are always like the special olympics.