Smoke Grenades

[Sniper1]

It's been a while since this topic has come up among friends but 99% of the Paintball feilds do not allowt pryotechnic/hot burning smoke devices due to fire hazerds.

So ive seen them used but can not locate them... Any idea where i can find NON Pyrotechnic Smoke Grenades or Cool Burning Smoke Grendades in the states?

[REDRT]

I'm not sure even then you would be allowed to use them. I might have an adverse effect on a player with asthma. When the smoke clears REDRT was gone :D

[ahellers]

i was wonder this aswell. does any one know of a smoke grenade that would not be a fire hazard in brush?
t

[Sniper1]

ok well i found this after like a few hours of looking

http://www.evhill.com/products/White_Grenade.htm

this is a non pyrotechnic non burning powder based.

also it seems the only "cool burning" smoke is the orenge signal flairs from the coastguard and marine certafied boat flares SOLAS tyle, they are cool to the touch and have no visable flame. problem with these i have found no one who will sell and ship them aparently ever since 9/11 this is one of the other items that gayed up online sales bec of the paranoid fanatics... so these would have to be found localy.

[ahellers]

coast guard flairs... hmm ill have to go down stairs and ask the boatswains mates if they can give me some. :D
t

[Chooie]

The field I ref at allows smoke *only* if the field owner feels there has been suffecient rain in the preceeding week to minimalize any hazard. Even then, we require players to tell us when they have them, when they want to use them, and where they are using them. About a month ago, it was really dry here in Virginia. So dry, in fact, that one of those orange floating coast guard approved smoke bombs actually *did* set a bunker on fire, about 15' outside of one of our major forts. By the time I got there from the staging area, we were looking at a fire approximately 4'x8'x15' high... under the tree canopy. Luckily, we had some full 55gal drums of water being used as markers in the fort... I don't want to think about what would have happened if those weren't there. :mad:

[ahellers]

you should ask for a raise.
t

[Sniper1]

The field I ref at allows smoke *only* if the field owner feels there has been suffecient rain in the preceeding week to minimalize any hazard. Even then, we require players to tell us when they have them, when they want to use them, and where they are using them. About a month ago, it was really dry here in Virginia. So dry, in fact, that one of those orange floating coast guard approved smoke bombs actually *did* set a bunker on fire, about 15' outside of one of our major forts. By the time I got there from the staging area, we were looking at a fire approximately 4'x8'x15' high... under the tree canopy. Luckily, we had some full 55gal drums of water being used as markers in the fort... I don't want to think about what would have happened if those weren't there. :mad:


The floaters are not ment to be hand held the Cool burning SOLAS that are ment for handheld or ground use should be ok... SOLAS stands for Safety Of Life At Sea so do not mistake one SOLAS smoke device for another there are in fact more than one kind of SOLAS Smoke devices.

The water floating ones are designed to be cooled by the water hence why it would not be a good idea to have it on land even on freshly wet ground. they can reach in excess of 500*F and up

[Chooie]

We got hazard pay for that day :P

Sniper1: The player who used it hadn't run it by the field owner. Had he seen what type it was, he probably would have denied its use.

[Sniper1]

We got hazard pay for that day :P

Sniper1: The player who used it hadn't run it by the field owner. Had he seen what type it was, he probably would have denied its use.


Regardless of running it by the owner i think any one who would use a Hot burning pyrotechnic smoke device on some one else property is a idiot... I have a explosives licence and qualified to handle small charges such as squibs and i would not even dare kid around with anything thats hot burning...

I just dont get people and why they suffer from such human stupidity some times...

[RapidTransit]

I thought smoke grenades were illegal since they are technicly explosives

[Sniper1]

I thought smoke grenades were illegal since they are technicly explosives

There are different class smoke grenades. Also the local laws vary for instance unless you own a large amount of land you have to let the local fire department and police know when and where and be approved to use it so that someone does not call in they see smoke and send out the fire department.. Here is the kicker at that time being a false alarm they can in fact charge you for their misused time for coming out there believe it or not.

Some of the laws are a bit blurred but most of the problem laws pertain it being illegal to set off in public places that can cause a disturbance without a permit. But there are also different class smoke signaling/screen devices. Most of the ones Military and gov use are illegal. there are special explosive kinds that in fact do explode on a time delay that will toss 3 smaller shells in its landing radios that emit smoke to get a better spread. Items like that are definitely illegal..

But the ones i links are legal to use on private property like a paintball field and so would the SOLAS class markers be legal as well..

The major problem here is fire and burning hazards so far i still have not located a place to purchase cool burning or non pyrotechnic smoke nades such as the C02/powder based ones

[Sniper1]

There was a guy on the Armotech forums (before they had a fight with warsensor their partner company at the time and took the forum down) that made his own c02/powder based smoke nades he had detailed info how to make them and a video of them goin off they worked great and cost about 4 bucks a nade to make when buying in quantity to make 20 or more. But I never saved his post and the sites gone now…

I have seen swat companies sell but only to law enforcement the same type of nades for training indoor scenarios so that fire is not a problem but they run like 45 bucks a pop and are reusable. It kinda sucks to have to use it look around the field for it afterwards.

[Sniper1]

In my search i just found this

The Light Grenade:

http://www.bartan.com/lg002.JPG
http://www.bartan.com/lg.htm

could be fun in a night game i could build these easily too and cheap.

Also on the top of my last post http://www.leedway.com/Chemical%20Agents.pdf if you look at page 2 you will see that non pyrotechnic reusable grenades i speak of. These of course are law enforcement only.

1032 Flameless Tri-Chamber Grenade: CS $39.95

Basically these work real simply. The ones I’ve seen the guy made use a 12g cartridge the pin is pull and allows the spoon to become free when thrown the spoon pops off allowing a spring to become free to expand pushing the 12gram into a piercer this will force all the powder based solution out of its chambers and into the air.

The powder based smoke ive seen and you can’t tell the difference from appearance.

just found another example of the Flameless Expulsion devices with a nice picture :)

http://www.lcaction.com/ikorb.php?func=catalog&category_id=242

http://www.lcaction.com/popups/pu_Def_Tec_2040.jpg

[Ydna]

I get my smoke from www.iheats.com. They burn orange smoke for nearly 3-4 minutes and can float on water. We bought a box of 16 of them a few years ago and have been using them ever since.

edit, I see they're now $11 each. Wow, when we bought them a few years back they were $7 each. I guess they're a lot more popular now (or more difficult to make).

[Sniper1]

I get my smoke from www.iheats.com. They burn orange smoke for nearly 3-4 minutes and can float on water. We bought a box of 16 of them a few years ago and have been using them ever since.

edit, I see they're now $11 each. Wow, when we bought them a few years back they were $7 each. I guess they're a lot more popular now (or more difficult to make).


Yea but are they cool burning or non pyrotechnic... thats what we are looking for...

[Sniper1]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1774399648040485199&q=Paintball

and thus why hot burning and pryotechnic smoke grenades are not allowed

im sure you would love havin this chucked at you and land in your bunker...

[cowboy_00]

the guy on the armotech forum was a complete moron, I went through his entire work and the biggest problem with using Pot ash is the danger of inhalation problems.

I worked through about 20 diffrent compounds and couldn't find a single MSDS sheet for a powder that wouldnt have an inhalation risk.
Its FAR safer to use a commercially made smoke. or wait for me to complete my work on a baffled grenade like this one.
Baffled smoke (commercial) (http://www.less-lethal.com/pdf_specs/5210B%20Rev%20A%20Baffled%20Pyro%20Smoke.pdf)

But mine will use a simple buildable and replaceable striker and using these (http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/View_Catalog_Page.asp?mi=6206)


I've worked out the baffling and the ingnition for hte most part. the only problem now is the one you have with every smoke grenade. you get a pillar of smoke and very little dispersal.

if anyone solves this i would appreciate the help. PM me if you wanna work on it and ill send you what ive done (or some of it).

these will be reusable you just have to replace the charge and maybe the cap. the striker/nicrome system is housed inside the first baffle so it isnt a fire hazard (there is also a fire marshall approving this at the end) and he's the saftey advisor for my field.

kinda rambling but if anyone has suggestions glad to here em. (and the armotech guys design used a shotgun primer, which would NEVER be approved on a pb field.

[Rudz]

these would be kewl at shatnerball....

[Ydna]

Yep the Iheats grenades are cool-burn, they are good to use. The field that hosts the Big Game format events I attend have the same rule (and for good reason, as stated above)

Note, I'm talking about the orange canister pin types sold by Iheats. I know they sell some other smoke-emitting devices that will definitely set fire to surrounding stuff.

[cowboy_00]

all the true Cold burn ones are made with a solid internal component in A baffled system. where the flame is contained by the first (inner) pocket, then you have a section of dead space that fills with smoke but allows the smoke to cool before going out the front.

the smoke being hot isnt so much the possible fire as the flames that shoot out of a lot of cheap Smoke grenades, once you isolate that flame they are a lot safer.

[Sniper1]

all the true Cold burn ones are made with a solid internal component in A baffled system. where the flame is contained by the first (inner) pocket, then you have a section of dead space that fills with smoke but allows the smoke to cool before going out the front.

the smoke being hot isnt so much the possible fire as the flames that shoot out of a lot of cheap Smoke grenades, once you isolate that flame they are a lot safer.

The heat from the can its self is also a problem some ones ogign to be throwing these things and last thing u need is some oen to pick up a hot can.

Link up some schematics i may have a few ideas for you I can do it in 3d right away too CAD/Studiotools For The Win :)