What do you guys think of Hamerhead Rifled Barrels?

[Robg54]

Hey, I was considering down the line getting a barrel kit for my rt. I would someday like a better barrel. I play woodsball and don't have a tendency to prefer accuracy to rate of fire.

Anyway, I saw many people tooting the horn of these hammerhead barrels which are rifled.

There seemed 2 extremes,

Lots of people rated the perfect 10 and sang their praises. Lots of other people gave em ones and 2s. These people called those who posted the 10's employees of the company.

I understand rating, especially on the net, tend to follow this example. There are only two ratings, too low and too high. The first gives it a 10 and the latter a 1.

Even taking this into account, public opinion seemed very polarized.

I was wondering if anyone hear owns some hammerhead barrels or a kit? What do they think? And is rifling the bees knees? I had heard some time back that it didn't help accuracy very much at all and could sometimes hurt in other ways...

[MoeMag]

Welcome to AO
:cheers:

read the link for lots of info about rifled barrels
http://www.automags.org/resource/tech/tomstech/03_spinning.shtml

[warpig13]

well, i dont work for hammerhead, but i own a kit for my ULE mag. it is by far one of the best barrels i have ever used. they are worth the buy.

[OneEyedPimp]

Rifling would only help if the paint ball was conical. Spinning a sphere of any type or perfection will not give you extra accuracy, it will only place a spin on it. Considering the perfection of paintballs, coupled with the fact that they are filled with fluid, any induced spin on a paintball generally leads to it swerving one way or the other.

This is not to say that hammerhead barrels are less accurate, jut that it probably will not give you a noticeable advantage over smooth bore barrels.

Edit: Click link above

[slateman]

Meh, just another pipe.

Save your money and get a Custom Products One Piece

[SpecialBlend2786]

I think they are wonderful barrels. I don't really believe in the rifle effect or anything, but just as a barrel I found the ones I've tried to be pretty damn accurate and good looking to boot.

Of course, there are barrels out there that are just as good and cheaper, but if you can find one used it'd be a good deal

/MacDev Matchstik FTW

[datajack]

I've been playing paintball for 20 years. In that time, I've owned a lot of different markers and a ton of different barrels. As most know, accuracy is affected by the quality of paint and by the matching of paint to the barrel. This is the first step. I've done this with evey barrel I've owned. Some barrels have worked better than others. I bought a Hammerhead kit (5 fins) to use with my Tac-One. I can honestly say that it's the best barrel I've ever used. Like I said, its very important to match the fin to the paint. And even more important to use good paint (look for good round balls. Paintballs full of dimples make for inaccurate shooting). After using a number of difference barrels (Boomstick, Freak kit, etc), I find that the Hammerhead gives me the best consistancy of them all. By consistancy I mean ball spread on the target. The rifling does make a difference. Get your hands on some different barrels and match some good paint to each one and test them out. You'll see that your results will vary. I've done it and all can say is that I find the Hammerhead to be the best barrel I've ever owned.

[SummaryJudgement]

I have alot of Armsons, and they work out pretty well, BUT.................

I have seen paintballs do the WEIRDEST things when they come out of a rifled barrel with ANY broken paint in them. I've seen paintballs make spiraling flight paths or go wizzing off in the most random directions. It's way worse than broken paint in a "normal" barrel. :shooting:

[Lohman446]

Rifling would only help if the paint ball was conical. Spinning a sphere of any type or perfection will not give you extra accuracy, it will only place a spin on it.

Incorrect. Spinning a three gram, liquid filled, .68 projectile will do nothing for accuracy. Countless muskets using ball ammo have proven that rifling is in fact effective at adding accuracy to the right projectile - just not a paintball.

[maxama10]

Well appologize for hijacking the thread but as seeing this relates closely, how about tippman flatlines with the curved barrels that supposedly but a backspin on the ball to make them more accurate. Do those actually work? Wouldnt that contradict Toms article? I havent searched or anything so I should probably go do that. anyways sorry again and I have no knowledge of hammerheads so goodluck. Id just suggest a boomstick.

[stop whining buy a mag]

Read all of Tom's tech stuff. He gets rid of a lot of barrel myths.

People are going to have their opinions about things like this. I've learned one thing over the past few years and many will agree; any barrel/barrel kit that matches your paint and is made with decent quality will shoot just as good as the next barrel. Paintballs do not have an exact shape so all you can do is match your paint to the bore size.

The Hammer Head kits are very expensive. A waste IMO. Go find a barrel that looks cool and is fairly large bore (.691) so you can shoot all kinds of paint. As long as you are shooting paintballs that haven't been through hell you won't notice anything.

[cowboy_00]

The flatlines work by having a slightly rough texture on the top of the barrel, so when a paintball rubs against it the top has a little more friction than the bottom and the paintball spins backward. This increases range slightly but I have found (personal opinion) that the flatlines Decrease accuracy. again thats just me.

[Lohman446]

Remeber kids, all of Toms findings were axis specific and did not apply to back spin (or front spin for that matter)

[Army]

The flatlines work by having a slightly rough texture on the top of the barrel, so when a paintball rubs against it the top has a little more friction than the bottom and the paintball spins backward. This increases range slightly but I have found (personal opinion) that the flatlines Decrease accuracy. again thats just me.
Flatlines work by bending the barrel which forces the ball to roll along the top of the large bore.

Spinning a paintball axially does nothing for accuracy, neither gaining nor losing. Rifled barrels do nothing axially to a paintball, since the ball will only touch at two places in the bore and cannot fully engage the rifling to impart stabilization forces.

Hammerheads are quality barrels, no argument. They are not, however, any more accurate than any other good quality barrel because of their proprietary rifling. Paint is the deciding factor, always being out-of-round and varying in size from ball to ball, even from the same batch or bag.

For the money spent on a Hammerhead, you can buy a series of cheaper barrels that will better conform to the paint size you may have at any given moment.

I like JJ Ceramics.

[Toll]

Just because I didn't want to make a new thread, has anyone ever had a shaped, conical paintball?

Just wondering as I would like to do some tests (pump cocker converted into lever action) on them. Pity they'd be so expensive if they do infact exist.

[phantomhitman]

i heard this one guy say that he can snip3 people from trees at a tourney, I was lik3 ohmegeee!


save your money buy a 689 barrel of yoru choice.

[maxama10]

Just because I didn't want to make a new thread, has anyone ever had a shaped, conical paintball?

Just wondering as I would like to do some tests (pump cocker converted into lever action) on them. Pity they'd be so expensive if they do infact exist.
pretty sure if you wouldve read toms tech tips in the llink above it says he made on for the army and it was more accurate. :rolleyes:

[Toll]

I'm asking if anyone has seen them about comercially.

And yes, I read the tips.

[maxama10]

ahha sorry :p, I have no idea about that one. Never seen em or heard of em personally.

[Hexis]

If you want an expensive barrel kit, get a Titanium Longbow. At least you get a cool exotic materal that way.

[SpecialBlend2786]

If you want an expensive barrel kit, get a Titanium Longbow. At least you get a cool exotic materal that way.

Are those the ones that spark sometimes?

Those are cool.

[magman007]

all titanium barrels spark at times.

[Hexis]

Yep, it's a Ti thing. Mine has on a number of occasions. I have heard reports of Ti Boomys doing the same.

[yingyang]

Im guessing you read your reviews on pbreview, I dont listen to 9/10 of the BS said on there, I just go on there now to have a laugh or two during study hall. Well anyways for the price of a hammerhead, your buying 60 dollars worth of hype. For around 40 bucks you can buy a JJ ceramic, best barrel for the buck or a Lapco BigShot. But if you are looking for the best quality try Boomsticks or Ultralights.

[OneEyedPimp]

Incorrect. Spinning a three gram, liquid filled, .68 projectile will do nothing for accuracy. Countless muskets using ball ammo have proven that rifling is in fact effective at adding accuracy to the right projectile - just not a paintball.

One hundred percent correct. I wansnt trying to say that the gain would be huge, just that a conically or eliptically shaped paintball would be _slightly_ more accurate if it was spun through it's flight.

[Miscue]

Without even getting into a paintball rifling discussion (It doesn't help!)... I think it's hilarious that the "rifled" portion of a two-piece Hammerhead has a larger internal diameter than the control bore - which I don't ever see anybody mentioning. How the heck is that supposed to work? :p

[FallNAngel]

Without even getting into a paintball rifling discussion (It doesn't help!)... I think it's hilarious that the "rifled" portion of a two-piece Hammerhead has a larger internal diameter than the control bore - which I don't ever see anybody mentioning. How the heck is that supposed to work? :p

Shhhh.... we don't talk about logic like that here... :ninja:

[thefool]

have one for my phantom. ITs great. Looks really cool when its clean casue you can see the rifling. doubt it does anything more than a regular tube, but i like it. looks cool too.

baically get what you like, you wont go wrong with a hammerhead, but its not much better than anything else either.

[lather]

Wasn't there a big thread discussing the hammerhead system and rifling effects on a paintball a while back?

[Lohman446]

Wasn't there a big thread discussing the hammerhead system and rifling effects on a paintball a while back?

Yeh - it went like this

Group A: Put several scientific reasons why rifling in a hammerhead does not work

Group B: "I own one and it does, its better than anything else"

And then it went on like that for several pages.

[astroboy]

i got a set of hammerhead with the full fins... bought into the hype and foolishly am waiting to see if it is like wine; does it get better with aging? lol... i have posted my review on pbreview and pbnation... basically accuracy is no better than my CP set and a lot of time it is worse and with my set there are lots of breaks in the barrel midway so that's my take and yes I did ask for a different set (this was my 2nd set because the first set didn't all fit together and other issues...) i don't use it all...

[Bigman]

Well unless you guys are cracking thermodynamics books trying to figure this one out don't try to make logic of it. The barrel works sort of like step-ups and flatlines buy using air to stabilize the ball... I don't know I didn't buy it becuase of that I bought becuase I laughed at the guy saying it was more accurate then my freak. He told we to but 20 rnds into a target about 75' away. Then he puts a Hammer Head on it, same paint same fit... Yeah all 20 rnds went inbetween the closest 5 freak rnds to the bulls eye... Bought 2 one for my dads RT one for my cocker which will carry onto my next buy... eTac-One.

[Miscue]

Well unless you guys are cracking thermodynamics books trying to figure this one out don't try to make logic of it. The barrel works sort of like step-ups and flatlines buy using air to stabilize the ball... I don't know I didn't buy it becuase of that I bought becuase I laughed at the guy saying it was more accurate then my freak. He told we to but 20 rnds into a target about 75' away. Then he puts a Hammer Head on it, same paint same fit... Yeah all 20 rnds went inbetween the closest 5 freak rnds to the bulls eye... Bought 2 one for my dads RT one for my cocker which will carry onto my next buy... eTac-One.

:rolleyes:

This sounds familiar... SP Tear Drop anybody? This barrel didn't do anything special either... because it doesn't work.
http://www.freshpatents.com/Paintball-gun-barrel-with-compression-chamber-dt20050331ptan20050066954.php

[Drizit]

Well Miscue I mean no disrespect but in THIS case you are dead wrong. I won't say it the rifling and I won't say it's the much hyped reverse porting. However SOMTHING about this setup makes it work better then other options. My first thought at the IAO a few years ago was "yah right another rifled barrel" Glen Palmer was standing right beside me with the same opinion BTW. The owner of Hammer Head told me to come back with my gun and paint. So off I went to get my Imp with a freak and a full pod of field paint and a friend with a racegun. We went out back matched the paint to the freak kit and started shooting down a target range at a pop can hanging from a string with the freak I was lucky to hit more then 1 in 5 when the can was sitting still, half way through the hopper we swapped barrels for the same sized (.01 off was the closest) fin as the freak insert and started shooting again the hits on the still can went up to more like 1 in 2 or better and I could even hit it when moving with some degree of consistancy. The same results were found with the cocker (again compared to a freak). I also now own a twist lock single piece hammer head that gets used on my pump mag. The other option for the pump are a 14" SS boomstick and a 14" old school one peice all american (both vary nice barrels and all 3 with unknown bores) reliably with whatever paint I happen to have at the time the hammer head works better then the other 2. So much so that even though I have sold my last twist lock marker with the other 2 I am keeping the hammer head just in case I ever get another twistlock.

Oh and as to the tippmann flatline... as a previous owner here's the deal... it does give notiably better range however you better have an RT kit on there or you can forget about hitting anything smaller then a mid sized car (I know I exagerate) I swapped that out for a hammer head and even though the range is less I get more kills per hopper (RT at 19 a sec, shooting from the hip you count kills by the hopper full not by the ball) so you do the math range or MUCH better accuracy. In fact I found the flatline accuracy to approxematly match the stock barrel (from a rental gun at a sandy field.) on the other hand I like it when someone else behind me has one :D (helps keep the other team in while I move up for the kill.)

ok now that I have promoted a rifled barrel without quoting laws of fluid dinamics feel free to tell yourselfs and the rest of the world that I don't know what I'm talking about... No realy don't even try a hammer head just accept blindly that they don't work and let me have the advantage :ninja:

[osustevie]

I got a 5 fin Hammerhead kit for my CCM series 5 cocker. I just love it. All I can say is that I am very pleased with the performance I get from my Hammerhead barrel.

[Lohman446]

ok now that I have promoted a rifled barrel without quoting laws of fluid dinamics :

And absolutely zero quantitative or objective reference material. Good job though :D

[Drizit]

And absolutely zero quantitative or objective reference material. Good job though :D

True but I'm just to lazy/busy to setup a proper target range and a bench to lock things down. one day I'll do it just for fun but at the moment I have clients demanding attention and a car requireing a head swap so I'm booked. The closest thing to quantitative evedence is that swaping from a freak to a hammerhead with the same sized back 1/2 way through a hopper resulted in me hitting a small moving target with far more proficiency. Make of that what you will ;)

[SlartyBartFast]

True but I'm just to lazy/busy to setup a proper target range and a bench to lock things down. one day I'll do it just for fun but at the moment I have clients demanding attention and a car requireing a head swap so I'm booked. The closest thing to quantitative evedence is that swaping from a freak to a hammerhead with the same sized back 1/2 way through a hopper resulted in me hitting a small moving target with far more proficiency. Make of that what you will ;)

Which is an absolutely and amazingly useless comparison unless the marker is re-chrono'd after the switch.

If the freak back was too tight, inconsistencies in ball size would cause inconsistent velocities.

[SCpoloRicker]

Well Miscue I mean no disrespect but in THIS case you are dead wrong. I won't say it the rifling and I won't say it's the much hyped reverse porting. However SOMTHING about this setup makes it work better then other options. My first thought at the IAO a few years ago was "yah right another rifled barrel" Glen Palmer was standing right beside me with the same opinion BTW. The owner of Hammer Head told me to come back with my gun and paint. So off I went to get my Imp with a freak and a full pod of field paint and a friend with a racegun. We went out back matched the paint to the freak kit and started shooting down a target range at a pop can hanging from a string with the freak I was lucky to hit more then 1 in 5 when the can was sitting still, half way through the hopper we swapped barrels for the same sized (.01 off was the closest) fin as the freak insert and started shooting again the hits on the still can went up to more like 1 in 2 or better and I could even hit it when moving with some degree of consistancy. The same results were found with the cocker (again compared to a freak). I also now own a twist lock single piece hammer head that gets used on my pump mag. The other option for the pump are a 14" SS boomstick and a 14" old school one peice all american (both vary nice barrels and all 3 with unknown bores) reliably with whatever paint I happen to have at the time the hammer head works better then the other 2. So much so that even though I have sold my last twist lock marker with the other 2 I am keeping the hammer head just in case I ever get another twistlock.

Oh and as to the tippmann flatline... as a previous owner here's the deal... it does give notiably better range however you better have an RT kit on there or you can forget about hitting anything smaller then a mid sized car (I know I exagerate) I swapped that out for a hammer head and even though the range is less I get more kills per hopper (RT at 19 a sec, shooting from the hip you count kills by the hopper full not by the ball) so you do the math range or MUCH better accuracy. In fact I found the flatline accuracy to approxematly match the stock barrel (from a rental gun at a sandy field.) on the other hand I like it when someone else behind me has one :D (helps keep the other team in while I move up for the kill.)

ok now that I have promoted a rifled barrel without quoting laws of fluid dinamics feel free to tell yourselfs and the rest of the world that I don't know what I'm talking about... No realy don't even try a hammer head just accept blindly that they don't work and let me have the advantage :ninja:

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6972/cleverruseyf6.gif

[Mike Smith]

Which is an absolutely and amazingly useless comparison unless the marker is re-chrono'd after the switch.

If the freak back was too tight, inconsistencies in ball size would cause inconsistent velocities.

Yep, that 1 one-hundreth of an inch difference in the diameter is why the Hammerhead was more accurate that his freak.... And, of course, he had the world's MOST consistantly round paintballs in his hopper.... :R :R

[Drizit]

Yep, that 1 one-hundreth of an inch difference in the diameter is why the Hammerhead was more accurate that his freak.... And, of course, he had the world's MOST consistantly round paintballs in his hopper.... :R :R

Beat me to the draw, yah there really is no point in rechronoing after a .01 change in bore size for the purpose of this test, and the paint.... Yep best stuff on earth Diablo Hellfire that went unused at the IAO and has been sitting in a tightly packed pod all day in the heat and humidity. I think it's safe to say that there is more then a .01 variance from ball to ball. In fact I know that to be true as we fed the paint through a ball seizer to find the correct insert rather then just blowing them through the insert.

[Lohman446]

Beat me to the draw, yah there really is no point in rechronoing after a .01 change in bore size for the purpose of this test, and the paint.... Yep best stuff on earth Diablo Hellfire that went unused at the IAO and has been sitting in a tightly packed pod all day in the heat and humidity. I think it's safe to say that there is more then a .01 variance from ball to ball. In fact I know that to be true as we fed the paint through a ball seizer to find the correct insert rather then just blowing them through the insert.

So you did in fact fail to isolate variables? Unless your telling me that was consistent paint.

[topazpaintball]

what was it that rogue said? "an aluminum tube is an aluminum tube, no matter whose name is on it" or somethign to that effect

[SR_matt]

ok well i won one at a scenario game so i dont have the money tie to the barrel expectations

does it shoot well? yes

does the rifeling work? i can see some what of a differance, if the ball has a defect in it it wil at leat always seem to go the same direction a other defects


the rifleing seems to stabilize the spin as apposed to creating spin like other rifeling does

would i buy one? probably not because i like full length backs and i am a fan of dye barrels

will i suggest it to others? sure its a good barrel

i hope this helps
-matt

[Pneumagger]

look..as an engineer, I tend to read into advertisement claims a little to much and tend to call shennanigans on alot of things without feeling the need to try it out.

The truth here is this: It is a good quality barrel, right up there with boomsticks and freaks. Some claim better, some claim equal performance. Quatitative data fails to consistently prove one argument right over another

The unkown is this: Is the rifling the deciding factor in everyones "I compared it to barrel B side by side" miracle stories? Probably (and theorhetically) not. There are a lot of factors. Perhaps the muzzle brake on the hammerhead is a great design by chance. Perhaps the stepped bore and rifle channels lets the ball ride on more air and pick up less barrel friction and spin. Maybe it's polished better. Who knows. :confused:

(for example)
If I claim my $110 Scandium Alloy Dye Ultralight II shoots better than a $15 Dye Excel because it can directionalize the earth's polar magnetic feild giving the ball less resistence through the barrel...everyone would call shens and it would be a load of horsedung. But what if the barrel places all it's shots within the 5 best shots of the Dye Excel consistently for many users? Then for some (unknown) reason, it is a better barrel and possibly worth the money.

Just because a manufacturer "claims" why something is better doesn't mean it's true. But if a barrel performs just as good (or possibly better) as other high end barrels, who cares why? It could be for other reasons. Don't call BS on someone just because they noticed a change in performance of their equipment and you think you know some "theory" that conflicts with an "advertisement". Sure, you may be right...but (if their observation is honest) they still have a better barrel reguardless of what you think you know and how many laws of physics a manufacture's PR department has broken.

My $.02 (nonrefundable)

[Drizit]

So you did in fact fail to isolate variables? Unless your telling me that was consistent paint.

no it was not the most consistant paint I have ever shot, however when you put 1/2 a hopper through one and 1/2 a hopper through the other.... chances are it kinda balances out don't you think?

[Troen]

Meh, just another pipe.

Save your money and get a Custom Products One Piece
qft

[SR_matt]

well also from when ive used it the barrel shoots diferantly than other barrels some what, i dont really know how to explain it but it does.

-matt

[jsdatjsd]

pretty sure if you wouldve read toms tech tips in the llink above it says he made on for the army and it was more accurate. :rolleyes:

Oh, yeah, and they wouldn't be any more expensive. I would guess that there are more encapsulation machines making oblong objects than there are making round ones. Ever seen a round gel pill? Nope, they are all oblong.

And yes, its the same technology.

And yes, they use the same exact machines.

And yes, pharmecutical companies buy the same exact models as the paintball ammo manufacturers.

THey just use different "plattens" and "dies".

You just swap out the rollers, which are mirroed and synchornized, and put different goop in the dispenser.

The only price difference would be, does an oblong ball use more material than a round one? If they were /68 caliber, sure. But probably not if they were only .50, or .45, or smaller.

That isn't to say that making paintballs doesn't have its own quirks when using the encapsualtion process, but all you are really doing is changing roller dies....

Check one out, made in china:

http://trustar.en.alibaba.com/product/50136132/50626857/Capsule_Filling_Machines/Soft_Gel_Encapsulation_Machine.html

[Drizit]

Oh, yeah, and they wouldn't be any more expensive. I would guess that there are more encapsulation machines making oblong objects than there are making round ones. Ever seen a round gel pill? Nope, they are all oblong.

And yes, its the same technology.

And yes, they use the same exact machines.

And yes, pharmecutical companies buy the same exact models as the paintball ammo manufacturers.

THey just use different "plattens" and "dies".

You just swap out the rollers, which are mirroed and synchornized, and put different goop in the dispenser.

The only price difference would be, does an oblong ball use more material than a round one? If they were /68 caliber, sure. But probably not if they were only .50, or .45, or smaller.

That isn't to say that making paintballs doesn't have its own quirks when using the encapsualtion process, but all you are really doing is changing roller dies....

Check one out, made in china:

http://trustar.en.alibaba.com/product/50136132/50626857/Capsule_Filling_Machines/Soft_Gel_Encapsulation_Machine.html


The issue with oblong paintballs is loading them, you couldn't dump 150 in your hopper and expect them not to jam like crazy, you could however use a clip system to feed them same as bullets.... hmmm thinking C-Mag

[FinchMan]

you might be able to make a hopper that would sort out the rounds, though it definitely wouldn't feed fast. you would need a special bolt mechanism though.

*edit* Oops.... necro-post :tard:, I followed the link from this newer post: http://automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=209120

[bryceeden]

I've sold a hammerhead or two and tested them as well, they are an OK barrel they do work pretty well, however for the price you'd be better off with the Redz Pepperstick, Powerlyte Septer, or Empire Revolver as they are cheaper and just as good or in my opinion better than the Hammerhead. The rifleing does literally nothing in any of the rifeld barrels out there(Armson, Hammerhead, Empire, Spyder, or any of the others I've tested them all alot) Rifleing has no effect on the ball however some of them like the Hammerhead are a good quality barrel and are pretty accurate but like I said save your money and get the Redz or Empire they're better and cheaper. Plus for the side by side with a freak test, frankly while better than most single barrels the freak when compared to other kits is definatly rather low on the performence spectrum.

[bryceeden]

Without even getting into a paintball rifling discussion (It doesn't help!)... I think it's hilarious that the "rifled" portion of a two-piece Hammerhead has a larger internal diameter than the control bore - which I don't ever see anybody mentioning. How the heck is that supposed to work? :p

That is an amazingly good point.

Hammerhead does have a pretty cool way edited promo video to try to make thier product look way better than it really is, most people are disapointed when they can't hit a quarter from 120' with it.

Here is the link http://www.hammerheadpaintball.com/gallery.html

edit:they took down the way hyped video, but it could probably be found somewhere. I use to have like 100DVDs of it they sent me when I set up my dealer account with them I'll have to try to find.

[Shane-O-Mac]

Variables, variables..................

Barrel A may be slightly nose heavy and helps stabilize the kick of the gun, hence you shoot more consistantly.

Barrel A has a better fit to the size of the paintball. The ball sizer tihng is bogus also. insert A may be .002 off versus insert B, and both could be +/- of the ball sizer. A on the + side B on the - side, so they could be as much as .005 difference. This is NORMAL for any machined product.

Barrel A may have its threads machined slightly off center, so the barrel isnt 100% true to the gun, I could go on and on about possible variables.

Yes it may SEEM to be better, but it really isnt. The placebo effect does apply here. I have bought a new gun/barrel/air system, and was POSITIVE it was better, until I really tested it, and realized that it wasnt any different. Was the barrel length the same? Velocity the same (actually tested)? I shoot a 14" barrel better than a 12", some people are the opposite. If you beleive its better, then fine it is for you, but dont try and convince others that it truely shoots better. Do the proper testing before making hyped up claims.

Example: I shot phantoms and sniper 2's regularly. I shoot a Sniper2 much better than a Phantom, that does not mean that snipers shoot better than phantoms. What works best for me, may not work best for you.

As someone said once, its an aluminum tube with holes, a tube is a tube.

Shane-O

[Triangle]

Keep it clean.
Keep it dry.
Winner.

[Drizit]

ok that's it, this summer (can't realy test in the snow, I'd freez my buns off ;), I'll do a bench test, hammerhead vs. freak vs. whatever else i can find. I've got a longbow and a realy heavy vice, I'm even going to find another reg to put between the geddon and the mag valve, I'll even fit my old AIR valve to it as they are more consistant for slow shots. I will also put the paint through the sizzer so that I can use only balls that are about the same size. sound scientific enough?

[Shane-O-Mac]

ok that's it, this summer (can't realy test in the snow, I'd freez my buns off ;), I'll do a bench test, hammerhead vs. freak vs. whatever else i can find. I've got a longbow and a realy heavy vice, I'm even going to find another reg to put between the geddon and the mag valve, I'll even fit my old AIR valve to it as they are more consistant for slow shots. I will also put the paint through the sizzer so that I can use only balls that are about the same size. sound scientific enough?

Not really scientific enough. You need a level (or angle finder) so that the the barrels are at the same exact angle, You need a more accurate Gauge on your airsytem to make sure you are putting out the EXACT same pressure, every time. Adding a third reg wont help either, wouldnt hurt, but wont help. Main thing you need is a chrono, a good chrono, the handheld ones aren't very accurate. you need a radarchron, or shooting chrono. Your gonna need a barrel bore micrometer to verify the barrels ID's. Also, regular paintballs arent very consistant either, reballs or similar would be best. Do all that and your results will still be questionable, why? Because your not in a controled enviroment. Outdoors isnt gonna be very good for accuracy testing, dealing with wind and barometric pressures, will throw things off. Using a sizer for the paint isnt gonna help, the sizer needs to be measured toensure accuracy, and the balls could fit thru the sizer on one pass, then not on another, (High sides). See how difficult it will be to prove? Or you can just look up Tom Kayes older experiments and believe them.....LOL

Shane-O

[Drizit]

Oh I'm not trying to debunk tom's work, I'm trying to lay to bed once and for all if the hammerhead kit is good, bad, or just the same as everything else. I'm not trying to prove WHY it works just IF it works. I can test indoors at a field, and can probably borrow the big red chrono for it as I only have a hand held at home. As to using reballs although they will be more consistent then real paint there is the issue of spin being imparted to the liquid fill so I think I'll still use real paint. I have an angle finder so that's no problem. I don't have a barrel bore micrometer, I have a set of calipers but that's not accurate enough when it comes to measuring a tube, what I'm thinking is I'll conduct the test with a couple of different backs/inserts just to be sure I've gotten the correct size. As to the paint not fitting I'll be rotating the ball in the seizer just to make sure and using the best paint I can get my hands on. As to humidity and barometric pressure it should be constant if I do all the testing at the same time. same with input pressure as long as I don't touch the settings on the gear, I'll just plug my 4500psi scuba tank into the fill nipple to make sure I've got lots of juice for the test to eliminate tank pressure drop as a source of questions and the Geddon is already dual regulated, and very consistent. If I pass it through another quality reg, say a Maxflow (as I have one around, and the AIR reg that should eliminate all concerns as to input pressure, and as I'll be firing over a chrono if any shots are out of tolerance (I think within 3-5fps should be close enough) then I will ignore that shot from the results. (I will however note how many for each barrel were dropped and what speed they were as if one kit has an abnormally high number of inconsistent shots it could be indicative of an issue with the kit) I will however make sure that every kit has the same number of shots counted for accuracy. I will also note the initial speeds of each kit before I set it back to 280fps as a rise in speed would indicate better efficiency as you would need less air behind the ball to get the same velocity.... hmm... If I'm going to go to all this trouble I should see if I can get kits from the marketing guys of a few companies just for this test. That way I'll have more to work with. I think the hardest part of this whole exercise is going to be getting a few hundred balls exactly the same. Anyone know of any tests of who has the most consistent paint out there?

Edited for spelling that would make a 5 year old blush.

[Shane-O-Mac]

Oh I'm not trying to debunk tom's work, I'm trying to lay to bed once and for all if the hammerhead kit is good, bad, or just the same as everything else. I'm not trying to prove WHY it works just IF it works. I can test indoors at a field, and can probably borrow the big red chrono for it as I only have a hand held at home. As to using reballs although they will be more consistent then real paint there is the issue of spin being imparted to the liquid fill so I think I'll still use real paint. I have an angle finder so that's no problem. I don't have a barrel bore micrometer, I have a set of calipers but that's not accurate enough when it comes to measuring a tube, what I'm thinking is I'll conduct the test with a couple of different backs/inserts just to be sure I've gotten the correct size. As to the paint not fitting I'll be rotating the ball in the seizer just to make sure and using the best paint I can get my hands on. As to humidity and barometric pressure it should be constant if I do all the testing at the same time. same with input pressure as long as I don't touch the settings on the gear, I'll just plug my 4500psi scuba tank into the fill nipple to make sure I've got lots of juice for the test to eliminate tank pressure drop as a source of questions and the Geddon is already dual regulated, and very consistent. If I pass it through another quality reg, say a Maxflow (as I have one around, and the AIR reg that should eliminate all concerns as to input pressure, and as I'll be firing over a chrono if any shots are out of tolerance (I think within 3-5fps should be close enough) then I will ignore that shot from the results. (I will however note how many for each barrel were dropped and what speed they were as if one kit has an abnormally high number of inconsistent shots it could be indicative of an issue with the kit) I will however make sure that every kit has the same number of shots counted for accuracy. I will also note the initial speeds of each kit before I set it back to 280fps as a rise in speed would indicate better efficiency as you would need less air behind the ball to get the same velocity.... hmm... If I'm going to go to all this trouble I should see if I can get kits from the marketing guys of a few companies just for this test. That way I'll have more to work with. I think the hardest part of this whole exercise is going to be getting a few hundred balls exactly the same. Anyone know of any tests of who has the most consistent paint out there?

Edited for spelling that would make a 5 year old blush.


First off, you have read this right? http://www.automags.org/resource/tech/tomstech/03_spinning.shtml

A couple of corrections, your 'Geddon is NOT double regulated, trust me I know, I used to be a tourney tech for Air America. And adding a Max-flow in between your 'geddon and air valve, will not gain you anything, it has a higher possibility of skewing your results.

Ok, Paint is a HUGE variable, thats why if you wanna do it right, use reballs, weigh them and take only the reballs that are within a couple of grams of each other. The problem is, your not gonna get any signifigant spin out of a rifled barrel, dont believe me, reread that above link. If you wanna hook up your scuba tank to it, your gonna need to gut the fill nipple and use the scuba tanks valve to shut off the air.

Now if you just wanna do it for fun, thats cool, it could be fun, but not very conclusive.

Shane-O

[Lohman446]

*IF* a barrel performs better for you (though I would point towards placebo effect) wonderful, use it.

However, do not try to explain why it is better because it ignores laws of physics.

You know what, a long time ago I asked the most accurate shooter at the field what he used. Keep in mind he routinely one balls people both in the speedball arenas and out in the woods. He had to look - because when he switches markers (as he does frequently) he uses whatever barrel is on it. Guess what, equipment alone cannot compensate for lack of skill. I have spent a lot of money playing paintball and proving this point.

[SR_matt]

i love how everyone is saying things like "this wont happen because its not supposed to" then the backing to their statments come from basic physics on paper, when was the last time something on paper worked out exactly as it was written? i know plenty of instances when well something is supposed to do one thing but hey it doesnt.

stop arguing over all this crap until someone does a good test of it that doesnt have errors in it, or if yall want to keep arguing over it you can start arguing over why paintball dont fly as far as they should on paper.

-matt

[Lohman446]

i love how everyone is saying things like "this wont happen because its not supposed to" then the backing to their statments come from basic physics on paper, when was the last time something on paper worked out exactly as it was written? i know plenty of instances when well something is supposed to do one thing but hey it doesnt.

stop arguing over all this crap until someone does a good test of it that doesnt have errors in it, or if yall want to keep arguing over it you can start arguing over why paintball dont fly as far as they should on paper.

-matt


Ok... TK spun an entire marker at a higher rate of RPMs than the Hammerhead could hope to achieve, fired the marker, and took high speed photos of the paintball as it left the marker - guess what. It *WASN'T* spinning outside of the marker. It has been proven. Various tests (Warpig stands out) have been done under reasonably controlled circumstances and shown without backspin no marker or barrel shoots with more range or accuracy than one of equivilant quality. So not only are those noting that it is nothing special using base knowledge in physics, they are also using paintball specific examples of testing.

[Desega]

ok that's it, this summer (can't realy test in the snow, I'd freez my buns off ;), I'll do a bench test, hammerhead vs. freak vs. whatever else i can find. I've got a longbow and a realy heavy vice, I'm even going to find another reg to put between the geddon and the mag valve, I'll even fit my old AIR valve to it as they are more consistant for slow shots. I will also put the paint through the sizzer so that I can use only balls that are about the same size. sound scientific enough?

This sounds like a good enough test to find trends it wont be conclusive but it will show accuracy trends. I would also throw a Redz Peperstick in the mix as its alot more comperable to the Hammerhead quality wize than the freak so it'd show the affect(or lack there of) of the rifleing better.

[Drizit]

Desega: I'm going to test every kit I can get my hands on. At the moment I have a freak and a hammerhead but I will endevor to get my hands on more if possible. Including some non kit type berrals if they can be found in the same bores.

SR_matt: I will do the tests as soon as I get time and get back to everyone.

Shane-O-Mac: I was under the impression that the geddon was a dual regulated system but I will defer to you in this However I will not agree that putting an extra high quality reg inline will add more variance to the results. Basic regulator mechanics say that for every reg you add in the system you reduce the variance by a factor of 10. So providing I don't start putting in crappy regs it will be more stable, it will slow down recharge rates but I don't care about that as I will be shooting one shot every few min. anyway.

I will get some reballs and do the test with them as well just to add that to the mix. Don't know why I would need to gut the fill nipple to hook up my scuba tank. If the scuba is hooked to the fill nipple all the time why this will keep the tank pressure constant essentially it adds 80FT.3 to the tank size, thus reducing the pressure drop per shot in the tank, and eliminating one more variable. Given I can't remove EVERY variable and there will be people out there who say I'm wrong and dumb because I couldn't eliminate EVERY variable and besides spinning paint does nothing... hey if spinning paint stops spinning as soon as it leaves the barrel how do the flatline and apex work?

Oh and I read that link years ago when tom first posted it ;)

[SR_matt]

Ok... TK spun an entire marker at a higher rate of RPMs than the Hammerhead could hope to achieve, fired the marker, and took high speed photos of the paintball as it left the marker - guess what. It *WASN'T* spinning outside of the marker. It has been proven. Various tests (Warpig stands out) have been done under reasonably controlled circumstances and shown without backspin no marker or barrel shoots with more range or accuracy than one of equivilant quality. So not only are those noting that it is nothing special using base knowledge in physics, they are also using paintball specific examples of testing.

ok well that is still different than having something touching the balls that force them to spin as apposed to a flat tube spinning.

i am not saying that the hammer head give better range, or better acuracy, i am saying it puts a consistant spin on the balls so the balls are more predictible (i guess you coudl cann that better accuracy but it really depends on how you look at it)

just out of curosity have you used a hammer head ever? (no smart a** or rudeness implied here just seriously wondering)
-matt

[Drizit]

just out of curosity have you used a hammer head ever? (no smart a** or rudeness implied here just seriously wondering)
-matt

personaly I have one on my imp and I love it, I'm in the process of putting a hammerhead tip on a freak back to see what happens for my longbow, the issue with the standard hammerhead kit and the tac-one body is the back goes all the way inside the body and if it ever jammed you would never get it out without damage to somthing. I will however be doing my tests with standard hammerhead cocker backs and the freak back, just to see if it's realy better or not. In my results however I will only give data I will provide no opinion on what barrel is better. Just the facts and let everyone decide what they want to shoot on their own.

[Lohman446]

ok well that is still different than having something touching the balls that force them to spin as apposed to a flat tube spinning.

i am not saying that the hammer head give better range, or better acuracy, i am saying it puts a consistant spin on the balls so the balls are more predictible (i guess you coudl cann that better accuracy but it really depends on how you look at it)

just out of curosity have you used a hammer head ever? (no smart a** or rudeness implied here just seriously wondering)
-matt


I've shot a couple here and there, they perform like any other barrel to me. How is it putting spin on the paintball when the rifling does not touch the ball? I mean the rifled section is larger diameter than the back of the barrel.

That being said, the only barrel I have ever shot and been "wowed" by was the Apex at IAO - and on returning from IAO I made certain that it was not legal at local tournaments :).

[SR_matt]

the rifiling is tight enough to still have the ball glide on it.

-matt

[Lohman446]

the rifiling is tight enough to still have the ball glide on it.

-matt

Its of a bigger diameter than the control bore.... rifling on a firearm "bites" deeply into the bullet to be effective. When TK was spinning the marker, he was also spinning the ball inside the marker up to high RPM - the barrel was not needed to create high RPM

[SR_matt]

by rotating the gun he gave it much diferent spin than if the ball was being twisted in its flight, when you move a gun as it is shot the flight of the bullet is not sped up or slowed down becasue it fires so fast the movement from the gun will not affect the flight.

the gun rifeling has to bite becasue it is twisting around all the way at least 2-3 times before it exits while the hammer head barrels are spinning a paintball less than half a twist (IIRC) before the ball leaves the barrel

-matt

[Shane-O-Mac]

Desega: I'm going to test every kit I can get my hands on. At the moment I have a freak and a hammerhead but I will endevor to get my hands on more if possible. Including some non kit type berrals if they can be found in the same bores.

SR_matt: I will do the tests as soon as I get time and get back to everyone.

Shane-O-Mac: I was under the impression that the geddon was a dual regulated system but I will defer to you in this However I will not agree that putting an extra high quality reg inline will add more variance to the results. Basic regulator mechanics say that for every reg you add in the system you reduce the variance by a factor of 10. So providing I don't start putting in crappy regs it will be more stable, it will slow down recharge rates but I don't care about that as I will be shooting one shot every few min. anyway.

Adding that max flow will just induce another variable. And another possible mechanical problem. Your 'Geddon and an air valve will do just fine. Your thought of basic reglator mechanics is not necessarily true for pball guns. Your adding another wholeset of paths and possible restrictions to your system with the set-up your talking about. If you add another reg, and dont have the proper set-up, it will not work very well. You are remove head room from the reg system and you can lose concistancy and recharge. And who ever said a Max-Flow is high quality?....lol.

I will get some reballs and do the test with them as well just to add that to the mix. Don't know why I would need to gut the fill nipple to hook up my scuba tank. If the scuba is hooked to the fill nipple all the time why this will keep the tank pressure constant essentially it adds 80FT.3 to the tank size, thus reducing the pressure drop per shot in the tank, and eliminating one more variable. Given I can't remove EVERY variable and there will be people out there who say I'm wrong and dumb because I couldn't eliminate EVERY variable and besides spinning paint does nothing... hey if spinning paint stops spinning as soon as it leaves the barrel how do the flatline and apex work?
Well You talking about diferent types of spin, Backspin works on the Bernouli principle. And the flatline and apex systems (and others) DO put spin on the balls. A Rifled barrel does not. Look at how much twist your rifling does inside the hammerhead, how much spin do you think it will impart? The amount of twist in that barrel will make a super slow spin (If it actually did make it spin) that may cause the balls to curve to the side. At the velocity paintballs shoot at, you not gonna get any appreciable spin from a rifled barrel. And you cannot get a tight enough fit to make the ball conform to the barrel. balls generally only touch on 2 or 3 sides. Your also talking about spinning the ball on a completely different axis which changes things. Ok you dont need the scuba tank. But if you insist on using it, you will have to gut the fill nipple. it will not be constantly open, it will open and close just like a pin valve, so you would not be gaining anything. Your 'Geddon isnt to bad for pressue changes through the tank. About 25 psi from full to 1000psi. that much change into the Air valve will net about 2 psi to the dump chamber. And thats not enough to make that much difference. The problem is making sure the air valve is operating perfectly.

Oh and I read that link years ago when tom first posted it ;)


Have fun, but dont try and pass off your test as fact, its gonna be a subjective test, not Empirical (sp?).


Shane-O

[Shane-O-Mac]

the rifiling is tight enough to still have the ball glide on it.

-matt

A paintball "Gliding" on the rifiling of a hammerhead will not impart any spin. It must be compressed into the barrel and ALOT more twist to get any appreciable ball spin.

Shane-O

[SlartyBartFast]

by rotating the gun he gave it much diferent spin than if the ball was being twisted in its flight, when you move a gun as it is shot the flight of the bullet is not sped up or slowed down becasue it fires so fast the movement from the gun will not affect the flight.

the gun rifeling has to bite becasue it is twisting around all the way at least 2-3 times before it exits while the hammer head barrels are spinning a paintball less than half a twist (IIRC) before the ball leaves the barrel

-matt

Sorry, but your statements are simply revealing a complete ignorance of ballistics and physics.

NOTHING could put more consistent a spin on a projectile than spinning the barrel.

How on earth does one method of imparting a spin create a different spin than the other?

With out "biting" into the projectile, it's IMPOSSIBLE for any spin to be imparted. Consistent or otherwise.

The second part is just funny. Not only does the hammer head have rifling that can't affect a paintball passing through the barrel, but it has too tiny a twist to give any effect even if it did. :rofl:

[Lohman446]

I don't care about your laws of physics and logic. I've done non-quantitative (sp) testing based only on the observations of the naked eye in an uncontrolled environment. :p

[Drizit]

If anyone knows where I can get my hands on a highspeed camera (just rent it or borrow it that is) I'll put an end to the question of "does the ball spin comming out of a hammerhead"

Lohman446: why ban the apex? have you ever seen someone try to play speedball with it? I watched someone try at the IAO where I was reffing, he spent all his time playing with the barrel and no time shooting or moving.... guess how efective that was :rolleyes: in order to make it work you would have to just set it to increas range and leave it there, basicaly like having a flatline except you would be shooting slower as with the flatline you set the gun at 280 and you are done, with the apex you have to chrono at 280 with no backspin then turn it on after. (thus slowing down the ball) the same way as with the galactic z body mag

[Lohman446]

If anyone knows where I can get my hands on a highspeed camera (just rent it or borrow it that is) I'll put an end to the question of "does the ball spin comming out of a hammerhead"

Lohman446: why ban the apex? have you ever seen someone try to play speedball with it? I watched someone try at the IAO where I was reffing, he spent all his time playing with the barrel and no time shooting or moving.... guess how efective that was :rolleyes: in order to make it work you would have to just set it to increas range and leave it there, basicaly like having a flatline except you would be shooting slower as with the flatline you set the gun at 280 and you are done, with the apex you have to chrono at 280 with no backspin then turn it on after. (thus slowing down the ball) the same way as with the galactic z body mag

We banned it under the theory that one could adjust velocity on field without the use of tools, thus making it illegal. Well I appreciate the fact it was downward, I still went with it :D

[SR_matt]

Sorry, but your statements are simply revealing a complete ignorance of ballistics and physics.

NOTHING could put more consistent a spin on a projectile than spinning the barrel.

How on earth does one method of imparting a spin create a different spin than the other?

With out "biting" into the projectile, it's IMPOSSIBLE for any spin to be imparted. Consistent or otherwise.

The second part is just funny. Not only does the hammer head have rifling that can't affect a paintball passing through the barrel, but it has too tiny a twist to give any effect even if it did. :rofl:

so ok spinning a barrel that the ball barely glides down will impart spin but rifiling that the ball glides on wont? ya that makes a whole lot of sence.

and yet again becasue it wont do crap on paper doesnt mean it wont change anything in real life.

-matt

[Lohman446]

so ok spinning a barrel that the ball barely glides down will impart spin but rifiling that the ball glides on wont? ya that makes a whole lot of sence.

and yet again becasue it wont do crap on paper doesnt mean it wont change anything in real life.

-matt


The barrel, the marker (and the ball inside) were all spun on a special machine. So unless that ball was just sitting still while everything around it was spinning - yes.

PHYSICS, if fully understood and considered, mean something in real life.

[Drizit]

We banned it under the theory that one could adjust velocity on field without the use of tools, thus making it illegal. Well I appreciate the fact it was downward, I still went with it :D

fair enough, do you also ban the zbody then though? also loosening any barrel will drop the velocity... or the cheeters version loosen it for chrono then tighten it up on the field... we should then all have setscrews on the barrel ;)

SR_matt: In Tom's test the barrel was spun to 30,000 rpm and kept there until both the ball and fill had matched speeds with it. While I feel the Hammerhead is an excellent barrel system (I own two) I won't say for sure it's the spin the rifling puts on the ball, in fact until I see high speed footage I won't even go so far as to say it even does impart any significant amount of spin... However previous statements saying that any spin put on the ball will be lost as soon as it exits the barrel are obviously wrong or none of the backspin products would work, and no one disputes the flatline, apex, zbody, and undertow bolt all give better range due to spin placed on the ball while still in the marker.

as I've said before I won't clame that the hammerhead imparts any spin or that it's the spin that makes it shoot well, I just say it shoots well for whatever reason. Again in my opinion.


Have fun, but dont try and pass off your test as fact, its gonna be a subjective test, not Empirical (sp?).

Why would it be subjective? If I actually do everything I say I plan on doing, in a controlled environment, and only provide the data obtained from the test then how is that not quantitative and conclusive? (Oh and double check that you meant to use the word Empirical, the definition may not be exactly what you intended.) I will be attempting to use scientific method to the best of my ability. And data will be gotten through measurement of results not through sitting at the back of the target range and saying "this is better because I have one"

[Lohman446]

However previous statements saying that any spin put on the ball will be lost as soon as it exits the barrel are obviously wrong or none of the backspin products would work, and no one disputes the flatline, apex, zbody, and undertow bolt all give better range due to spin placed on the ball while still in the marker.

It has to do with the direction of spin compared to the axis of flight - we are not debating backspin works. Backspin is far different than the spin on the axis parrellel to the flight of the paintball. So well it is "obvious" to you its not actually accurate.

[MANN]

My friend just purchased a hammerhead barrel. I am going to get that and my freak, and do some testing. One thing I did notice is that both freak, and hammerhead barrels are not exact on there measurements. hammerhead barrels and the ss freaks are closer to there marked diameter, but both are off. (I tested 4 freak kits both ss and alum, and 1 hammerhead to arrive at this conclusion) I will record the data, and post it in a couple of days/a week when I have time to do the test

I dont beleive in spinning, because I have had 400 level fluid mechanics classes, and beleive more in physics/fluids/dynamics than so and so. Either way they both shoot straight, and I am going to test these out, and post the data

/continue arguing

[cyrus-the-virus]

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6972/cleverruseyf6.gif

:spit_take

[SR_matt]

drizit, i am not saying nessecarly that the hamemr haed puts spin on the ball, in fact i believe it just controls the spin of the ball (preventing the ball from rolling any way it wants to )

-matt

[Drizit]

It has to do with the direction of spin compared to the axis of flight - we are not debating backspin works. Backspin is far different than the spin on the axis parrellel to the flight of the paintball. So well it is "obvious" to you its not actually accurate.

The thing is it was stated that the fill in the ball killed the spin as soon as it left the barrel, this would apply no matter what direction you spin the ball, go back to tom's glass of ice water example, if you put the ice water in a globe and spin it any direction I bet the results are the same. A ball spun backwards continues to spin after exit why then would axile spin stop any faster?

[Lohman446]

The thing is it was stated that the fill in the ball killed the spin as soon as it left the barrel, this would apply no matter what direction you spin the ball, go back to tom's glass of ice water example, if you put the ice water in a globe and spin it any direction I bet the results are the same. A ball spun backwards continues to spin after exit why then would axile spin stop any faster?

It does - controlled testing indicates it does.

[Drizit]

drizit, i am not saying nessecarly that the hamemr haed puts spin on the ball, in fact i believe it just controls the spin of the ball (preventing the ball from rolling any way it wants to )

-matt

I'd buy that but I'll hold of judgement until I get access to high speed footage.



[QUOTE=lohman446]It does - controlled testing indicates it does.[QUOTE]

sounds odd but I can't comment from experience on it, (and I'm willing to defer to someone with a degrea in fluid mechanics) how would a spinning sphear be slowed by it's liquid contents faster in one direction then another?

[MANN]

how would a spinning sphear be slowed by it's liquid contents faster in one direction then another?

It is because its coeficient of friction is greater when spining in different axial directions than the other.

IMO it has more to do with the fact that paintballs are not spherical. I beleive that that is the reason that paintballs do not go straight.

[cyrus-the-virus]

Round and round we go where we stop nobody know's

[Drizit]

It is because its coeficient of friction is greater when spining in different axial directions than the other.

Odd, I'll take your word for it but is there that much differance in friction that the ball would stop spinning almost right away for a lateral spin vs. a vertical one? I would infact think that the friction would be greater for backspin as the acceleration would prevent the fill from following the spin whereas a lateral spin imparted by rifleing (or a spinning barrel) would not compeat with the acceleration of the ball.


IMO it has more to do with the fact that paintballs are not spherical. I beleive that that is the reason that paintballs do not go straight.

That's my opinion on why paintballs go all over the place as well.