AGD as a company [Archive] - Automags.Org Online Forums

FiXeL

06-16-2006, 01:05 PM

Compared to other paintball companies, AGD is very quiet when it comes to new products and innovation. Even AGD Europe for that matter. I really hate to say this, but i feel like buisness is not going well for AGD at the moment...

Offcource i don't know what's going on, but the way they do buisness is a bit odd.

- They don't make and release new markers since the xmag
- Their european webshop was updated like 2 years ago? (atleast it looks like it)
- No marketing?

It is a bit harsh to say, but if AGD keeps this up they will go the way of the dodo.. :cry:

Even though AGD is not a very big company, i think there is alot of potential going to waste.

Lohman446

06-16-2006, 01:16 PM

It is a bit harsh to say, but if AGD keeps this up they will go the way of the dodo.. .

Yeh - just like Palmers...

/Oh wait
//You mean niche marketting might work?

Skittle

06-16-2006, 01:36 PM

Yeh - just like Palmers...

/Oh wait
//You mean niche marketting might work?

No matter where I go or what thread I'm in you are always smashing someone with the sledgehammer of fallacy.

*edit* high five

RapidTransit

06-16-2006, 03:32 PM

Compared to other paintball companies, AGD is very quiet when it comes to new products and innovation. Even AGD Europe for that matter. I really hate to say this, but i feel like buisness is not going well for AGD at the moment...

Offcource i don't know what's going on, but the way they do buisness is a bit odd they sell to the goverment.

- They don't make and release new markers since the xmag to the public
- Their european webshop was updated like 2 years ago? (nut who cares?)
- Relying on niche marketing and word of mouth by a bunch of crazy people which is the best marketing :headbang:

but if AGD keeps this up they will suceed.. :cry:

Even though AGD is not a very big company, i think there is alot of potential going to waste on selling to the goverment and not enough to consumers
Fixed it for you.

Bigman

06-16-2006, 03:47 PM

The last marker I heard that AGD was producing was a less than lethal for the government... I wonder how much R&D they're actually putting into the consumer market nowa days...

jsdatjsd

06-16-2006, 09:15 PM

Does this have anything to do with the words chuff chuff :)

It hasn't been announced yet, but the new marker is coming out later this year.

Yes its electro.

No, it doesn't use the x valve. Its all solenoid operated. 4 solenoids to be exact.

Its a bit heavy.

Its closed bolt (seriously, who would have thougth AGD would make a closed bolt?)

It has an anti chop eye, with technology licensed form an elevator manufacturer. Elevators have been using anti-chop technology for decades.

No, none of the old parts fits on any of the new gun.

It uses an 18v lithium ion battery. No pun or relation to SP ION.

The problem they are having is getting 4 'noids working for 2000 shots on one battery charge.

And as for the new name, it is going to be called.....<behemoth, give us a drum roll please>

AGD presents!!!

CHUFF-O-MATIC!!!!!!

With 45 CPS (chuffs per second) it is sure to be a tourney favorite for years to come.

JD

REDRT

06-16-2006, 09:18 PM

Tom walked away from his own company, and for the most part I feel that is the problem. Prior to that there was some development, but it seems to me when Tom lost his drive so did the company. I'd much rather see AGD just seriously try to be the company they once were insted of dieing the slow death.

Recon by Fire

06-16-2006, 11:15 PM

I just wish AGD would stop going out of business about 10 times a year...

:rolleyes: :cool: :eek: :rofl: :cheers:

Almost forgot the banana: :dance:

Army

06-17-2006, 12:27 AM

robnix

06-17-2006, 02:43 AM

I just wish AGD would stop going out of business about 10 times a year...

:rolleyes: :cool: :eek: :rofl: :cheers:

Almost forgot the banana: :dance:

Everytime I hear..."Are they still around?"

REDRT

06-17-2006, 07:01 AM

Tom sold the stock to Dave, and stepped down as President of AGD.

Tom still very much owns AGD and its affiliate companies.

I never said he didn't still own the company. He did however walk away from it. The company isn't what it once was and I think it has alot to do with it. AGD doesn't try to be a competitive. Doesn't try to be anything shall I say it, "a has been". Seems they're content being open period. That maybe ok, but the potential of the company is far greater than that. I feel the "ho humm" attitude hit the company wide. I really don't think they have direction or drive anymore. Maybe with a fresh "can do attitude" with a stand up leader with vision can AGD rise up and show the industry they still have it. AGD was one of the founding companies to the sport. Still being around when so many are gone is a true testiment they where doing more than something right. Times have changed though and their reputation alone isn't going to cut it forever.

dreadpirate

06-17-2006, 08:15 AM

I never said he didn't still own the company. He did however walk away from it. The company isn't what it once was and I think it has alot to do with it. AGD doesn't try to be a competitive. Doesn't try to be anything shall I say it, "a has been". Seems they're content being open period. That maybe ok, but the potential of the company is far greater than that. I feel the "ho humm" attitude hit the company wide. I really don't think they have direction or drive anymore. Maybe with a fresh "can do attitude" with a stand up leader with vision can AGD rise up and show the industry they still have it. AGD was one of the founding companies to the sport. Still being around when so many are gone is a true testiment they where doing more than something right. Times have changed though and their reputation alone isn't going to cut it forever.

Yeah, every time I bring my RT out to the field I get a bunch of 'wow, what is that?'s. Granted its nice to have all the highschoolers thinking I have some sort of exclusive, rare gun that looks like their ions, only prettier and lighter, but I remember when I was in highschool, we -all- knew, and to some extent, feared the automag.

As for governemtn products, has anyone seen the semi-auto version of the teargas-ball shooters some police have? Seems a bolt that -never- chops paint would be very desirable for that sort of use.

Chooie

06-17-2006, 08:36 AM

Dread, I've shot some of those capsacin/pepper balls out of my mag... Well, I haven't, but I loaned it to my brother in law for use at the sheriff's office because their marker was on the fritz. They work beautifully, and I still have a tube of 10 left for... defense. Right. :D

RapidTransit

06-17-2006, 09:29 AM

Tom has said time and time again he fell into the buisiness by accident, he has other hobby's that consume his time and frankly he dosn't want to deal with an industry that causes one huge headache.

slade

06-17-2006, 09:55 AM

Compared to other paintball companies, AGD is very quiet when it comes to new products and innovation. Even AGD Europe for that matter. I really hate to say this, but i feel like buisness is not going well for AGD at the moment...
i wish buisness wasnt going well for AGD, because then we wouldnt have new people constantly buying there products, and new people constantly joining this forum, and new people repeating this same damn question over and over. sheesh, cant we have a sticky or something by now?

slade

06-17-2006, 09:55 AM

Tom has said time and time again he fell into the buisiness by accident, he has other hobby's that consume his time and frankly he dosn't want to deal with an industry that causes one huge headache.
not really accident, he was forced to due to financial reasons.

Battlewear

06-17-2006, 01:48 PM

I never said he didn't still own the company. He did however walk away from it. The company isn't what it once was and I think it has alot to do with it. AGD doesn't try to be a competitive. Doesn't try to be anything shall I say it, "a has been". Seems they're content being open period. That maybe ok, but the potential of the company is far greater than that. I feel the "ho humm" attitude hit the company wide. I really don't think they have direction or drive anymore. Maybe with a fresh "can do attitude" with a stand up leader with vision can AGD rise up and show the industry they still have it. AGD was one of the founding companies to the sport. Still being around when so many are gone is a true testiment they where doing more than something right. Times have changed though and their reputation alone isn't going to cut it forever.

Ya know, here is a fairly stupid idea, But wouldnt it be cool if AGD became a public company. Involve some of the biggest dealer people Rogue, Tuna, DW, and many others.. Bring them in, make them apart of AGD (A Group of Developers of Air Guns Design), let them bring AGD back.. Granted they have been doing their products for AGD stuff (some for years) but with their minds and drive and heart MAYBE it could start to turn things around..

I know its a crazy idea, but some times when the Square Peg gets stuck in the round hole you need a bigger hammer and Break the Mold.

Oh and no I havent been drinking or smoking any thing LOL! :)

REDRT

06-17-2006, 02:49 PM

Ya know, here is a fairly stupid idea, But wouldnt it be cool if AGD became a public company. Involve some of the biggest dealer people Rogue, Tuna, DW, and many others.. Bring them in, make them apart of AGD (A Group of Developers of Air Guns Design), let them bring AGD back.. Granted they have been doing their products for AGD stuff (some for years) but with their minds and drive and heart MAYBE it could start to turn things around..

I know its a crazy idea, but some times when the Square Peg gets stuck in the round hole you need a bigger hammer and Break the Mold.

Oh and no I havent been drinking or smoking any thing LOL! :)

For a Canuck that seems like a reasonable idea.

MicroMiniMe

06-17-2006, 03:00 PM

REDRT

06-17-2006, 03:37 PM

Public means stockholders.
Stockholders like to see greatest gain.
How does long term growth appeal if rumors of ADGs demise happens ever year going all the way back to the 90s? Or pressure to create a cheap inferior product to sell more units?

AGD isn't going anywhere. They can hold in the mech market of high quality goods for many years. Remember, tournament paintball is the minority of market sales.

It isn't that they are going out of business. Only that they are not developing anything cutting edge or remotely new. Mechanical or electronic. I perdict because of mass sales by the other guys (that AGD should have been a part of IMHO) The 1-2 year old former tournament class E-markers will be making it in to rec players gear bag. They are getting cheaper by the day. What kid is going to want a mech over a marker with as many bells a whistle as today E markers offer? This is going to push mech marker like a mag right out the door. The AGD lions should have wings added. Just like the ruler of the, "Island of Misfit Toys". That is what AGD will become as they sit on their arse, unwanted misfits.

jsdatjsd

06-17-2006, 08:30 PM

ANd not a single laugh from the chuff-o-matic post.... :(

On the other hand, it is interesting to hear the Tom still owns AGD. Since he sold the "stock", does that mean AGD no longer manufactures markers, or do they manufacture them and sell them to dave?

WHo is dave?

slade

06-17-2006, 09:13 PM

ANd not a single laugh from the chuff-o-matic post.... :(
you arent funny.

well, actually i should clarify. your jokes arent funny.

you are.

/just kidding
//dave = dave zupe = new owner of AGD.

Pyroboy597

06-17-2006, 09:25 PM

I giggled ( :p ) when I read the Chuff-o-matic post.. I kind of thought you were serious about the whole thing until I got to 2000 shots per battery charge.. then I knew that it was either fake or a really bad idea. :D

REDRT

06-17-2006, 09:40 PM

ANd not a single laugh from the chuff-o-matic post.... :(

It was a knee slapper without the laugh.

Battlewear

06-19-2006, 12:42 PM

For a Canuck that seems like a reasonable idea.

We have them some times when the artic winds stop blowing for long enough our brains unfreeze ;) hehehe

Any ways, I think the biggest thing is that a lot of people are concerned, none of us want to see AGD go the way of the DoDo bird.. (Believe me, I am not saying they are either!!)

I think we all just care and are passionate about AGD and the products they produce. Of course we want people to know the products we buy, and granted, some times it is cool having these old markers that still kick butt, but part of the issue that we deal with is Marketing.. I am not talking about selling new products persay, but even just things like looking at the AGD web site.. While I know they have put new products on, but how about doing some of the small things that say subconsiously to people WE ARE STILL HERE AND NOT LEAVING (I.E. How about just updating the manuals section to even have a Level X manual? How about a ULT Manual?? These are products that have been out a few years and they dont even have the BASE MANUAL online?? WHAT'S UP WITH THAT?).. Doing the little things will carry weight, not only with new people coming to Mags for the first time, but those returning and those who have never left. How about some one on the inside doing a little blurb once in a blue moon as to new stuff happening, doesnt have to be at AGD as persay, but even as an industry, talk about how Scenario games are being featured more.. How about a team that played a tourney unsponsored by AGD shooting all mags that made it to the finals.. Granted we have the forums, but some people will take what they can from the AGD website and stop there.. Having something like that on the web site will carry weight.

Like the old saying Build it and they will come? Well the forums where built and those shooting AGD have come and lots have stayed. Maybe now its time to start showing some of the new stuff (not meaning product but attitude and updating)

Another idea that I was thinking of is AGD wants to support their dealers, and you know, that is really freaking cool! I think that is a great idea! But how about talking about them on the AGD web site? Links to pages (maybe I missed that part LOL)..

I know AGD may not want to come out and say HEY we are making this new Marker or such, you know, some times its good to keep ones mouth shut with stuff like that but a lot of goodness can come from talking to people about any thing and every thing. I respect Tom so much for that matter! I was always Jazzed to see Tom pipe in with some wisdom! That is apart of what makes AGD so good. I know when Dave took over the word was he would continue to do what Tom did, or try. Now I know I havent been around as much as I would of liked, but has any one seen / heard from him in the forums as of late? I hope so, I really do, because he does seem like a nice guy who now runs / owns (how ever that is worked out) a really nice company!

Viva la AGD
to those that remember (and to go with jsdatjsd (and yes I chuckled)) CHUFF CHUFF

:headbang:

Battlewear

06-19-2006, 12:57 PM

Public means stockholders.
Stockholders like to see greatest gain.
How does long term growth appeal if rumors of ADGs demise happens ever year going all the way back to the 90s? Or pressure to create a cheap inferior product to sell more units?

AGD isn't going anywhere. They can hold in the mech market of high quality goods for many years. Remember, tournament paintball is the minority of market sales.

I do understand what your saying!! FOR SURE! Sometimes Stock can be a bad thing for a company too! I think consideration of even partial holders of AGD people like Tuna and Rogue/Magsmith, Luke and such could have an impact on dirrection and such. I dont know about you but I believe with creative minds as those and others could help develope the little things that could bring the Mag back.. Look at Luke offering Spyder Conversions.. Would it not be sweet if with AGD's backing they could offer a new frame that could house all the items? Not to say Luke can't do it him self, but as I believe I had read (and please correct me if I am wrong!) I thought I had read that Luke wouldnt be doing as many due to work and life and such? With the power of a company such as AGD behind the small projects maybe just maybe they can go from being small to larger, to being more cost effective and there by cheapers and more redily available?

Whats the solution? I dont know, I am not a financal guy, I deal with inventories but I just see things from the outside and would love to see AGD regain the glory it should have!

AGD LOVE!

lather

06-19-2006, 01:07 PM

If AGD is fine with their position in the industry and performing to their satisfaction, who are we to say they should change their business strategy?

Battlewear

06-19-2006, 08:49 PM

If AGD is fine with their position in the industry and performing to their satisfaction, who are we to say they should change their business strategy?
Very True :)
:clap:

REDRT

06-19-2006, 09:02 PM

If AGD is fine with their position in the industry and performing to their satisfaction, who are we to say they should change their business strategy?

Let us see. For anyone currently employed by AGD. Are you truely satisfied with the companies position in the industry? Or do you feel it is high time to call the exterminator to clear a path to the R&D lab and invent tomorrows mag?

jsdatjsd

06-19-2006, 09:06 PM

you arent funny.

well, actually i should clarify. your jokes arent funny.

you are.

/just kidding
//dave = dave zupe = new owner of AGD.

I know Im funny, I crack myself up. The happiest people are those that can entertain themselves.

jsdatjsd

06-19-2006, 09:12 PM

Another idea that I was thinking of is AGD wants to support their dealers, and you know, that is really freaking cool! I think that is a great idea! But how about talking about them on the AGD web site? Links to pages (maybe I missed that part LOL)..

Viva la AGD
to those that remember (and to go with jsdatjsd (and yes I chuckled)) CHUFF CHUFF

:headbang:

Hey,

I checked every single one of the dealer links.

Of the few dozen links, only a half dozen or so actually sell anything AGD, and NONE sell AGD markers. A few sell the flatline, and a few more the warp. That's it.

Me sad.

REDRT

06-19-2006, 09:40 PM

Hey,

I checked every single one of the dealer links.

Of the few dozen links, only a half dozen or so actually sell anything AGD, and NONE sell AGD markers. A few sell the flatline, and a few more the warp. That's it.

Me sad.

Nobody wants mags hanging in their store. They don't sell good. :(

Lohman446

06-20-2006, 06:26 AM

Let us see. For anyone currently employed by AGD. Are you truely satisfied with the companies position in the industry? Or do you feel it is high time to call the exterminator to clear a path to the R&D lab and invent tomorrows mag?

Anyone employed by AGD are not the ones making the decisions. Until TK (or Dave, though I think TK still owns AGD) decide that they want AGD to be in a different position they are going to be where they are now. Look at the changes from the 90's until now. In 1990 TK did not have as much to risk as he does now - meaning you could take more chances as the risk to reward ratio was skewed by less to risk. TK now is far more successful and has other things on his plate. To risk what he has now for a game does not satisfy his risk to reward needs. Its his choice and all the wishing and whining about it on a message board is not going to change that.

I've got an idea. TK has hinted in the past the paintball portion of AGD is available for purchase. Get the right group together, get the money together, and buy it from him. Make whatever changes you feel you want once you own it.

jsdatjsd

06-20-2006, 07:20 AM

I've got an idea. TK has hinted in the past the paintball portion of AGD is available for purchase. Get the right group together, get the money together, and buy it from him. Make whatever changes you feel you want once you own it.

To tell the truth, all they need is a current web presence, not new management. Probably 3/4 of the times people have corrected me was because I was misinformed by the AGD website.

That's all...

JD

SCpoloRicker

06-20-2006, 10:24 AM

OH NOES!! AGD is going out of business!1

hitech

06-20-2006, 10:32 AM

I knew of a guy who picked up a brand new Gloss Black X-Mag for $500, ~9 months ago from a retail shop.

:cry:

And you didn't tell me about it first?!?! :cuss:

;)

REDRT

06-20-2006, 09:20 PM

Anyone employed by AGD are not the ones making the decisions. Until TK (or Dave, though I think TK still owns AGD) decide that they want AGD to be in a different position they are going to be where they are now.

I've got an idea. TK has hinted in the past the paintball portion of AGD is available for purchase. Get the right group together, get the money together, and buy it from him. Make whatever changes you feel you want once you own it.

You snooze you lose is the saying. Personally I don't think there is much decision making going on period. Tom lost his passion for this business and is doing everything but helping his own company better itself. Dave is a puppet keeping it going.

If I found the means to buy it I really would. I might even hire you. So I could make you my puppet and pitch you to the curb when I tire of you. :rofl:

murder-soul

06-20-2006, 10:12 PM

all they need to do is clear and simple, make a mq rip off combined with an lpr that would go along with the mq and replace the level 10. Make it fully electro pneumatic, the create a super ul body and rail making it weight much less. Put a 90* devil mag style frame on it or the abliity to put a ul frame on it (but avoid a lawsuite) and bamn its the next big thing. Efficent, light, small, fast. This is what people want, and thats what agd is gonna have to do to reclaim maket share

REDRT

06-20-2006, 10:17 PM

Interestingly, they sell pretty good. You just gotta know what you have, the type of customer to sell to, and their true value.

I knew of a guy who picked up a brand new Gloss Black X-Mag for $500, ~9 months ago from a retail shop. It was hanging on their wall since they were available a few years back. That marker would easily have sold on ebay for twice that. The shop owner just didnt put forth the effort.

Most pb shops expect their inventory to sell itself. Which is why many shops dont last long. Sales, like any other profession, isnt easy... or everyone would be doing it.

Almost anyone can sell an Xmag for alot more, but how's about an rt or minimag? There has been alot of super sweet marker for sale and finally sold for parts to try to break even.

Take my friends paintball shop. It is in a resort town. Advertage beater car is 55-95k. Most of the people that come into his store have the cash to buy what ever they want. They either want high end everything or they are rambo weekenders and go for the tippmann customs. Anyone who might know what a mag is don't care buy one. Most don't want something that isn't popular. OK the store futher down the road. Has some mag parts, RTpro and a minimag. They have been on the shelf for who knows how long. They were bought new by the store when the cost of mags were much higher. They didn't sell then and now the valve has come down less then what was paid originally. Instead of selling at a lose there they sit. They will never sell. I've told my friend if he has a customer that ever wants to trade a CnC Xmag in some color that I'd like for a whatever high end marker he has on the shelf, I'd buy the Xmag. I'm his only mag customer. He'd go broke having mag inventory on hand just for me. I'd bet here on AO less than half of us even have mags. My point is there is less and less of us daily. Retal stores don't want to stock products that don't make them money. We have a company that does seem to think they need to do anything anymore. I must not be the only person that feels change is needed to keep the company strong. I must not be the only one who gives a damn!

c0rpse

06-21-2006, 12:22 AM

Who doesn't feel that way?

jsdatjsd

06-21-2006, 06:22 AM

Who doesn't feel that way?

The CEO of smart parts?

Just a guess....

REDRT

06-21-2006, 08:23 AM

I would really like to see AGD do something, anything as far as development it a new marker. Maybe a new E-class or a super dooper mech mag. I think if one could change their image in the right direction even a little they could/woud be more successful. There is the basic reason why anybody buys something, "need and want". If one could market the mag in such a way to make it seem it was all that and more and make it stick then you would have something. Gandhi motivated his people, Dr. King ralleyed 1000's. I'd bet with out a doubt the power of suggestion if done right through advertisment could sell a mag 2 to 1 over other compairable markers. They really don't have to be better or as new though little things like that would help. It is getting people to know the product, then believe in the product. It doesn't matter if the product is any good as long as the people keep coming back like cattle. People are stupid. How many people smoke? By now people should know they are going to die and are warned on every pack. Yet they smoke. More and more start daily. It is crazy what image and the power of suggestion can achieve. Let it work for us. Let it work for AGD.

Don't believe me. If I type, "dadah da da dah I'm lovin' it. " you know what I'm talking about. :p

Arstron

06-21-2006, 08:38 AM

Let us see. For anyone currently employed by AGD. Are you truely satisfied with the companies position in the industry? Or do you feel it is high time to call the exterminator to clear a path to the R&D lab and invent tomorrows mag?

Dont forget that agd makes more then just paintball markers, they have a couple contracts with the government for their less lethal guns. I am sure they arent having a problem paying the bills yet. ;)

REDRT

06-21-2006, 08:59 AM

Dont forget that agd makes more then just paintball markers, they have a couple contracts with the government for their less lethal guns. I am sure they arent having a problem paying the bills yet. ;)

Well this isn't one of them going out of business threads. AGD has that to keep them above water yes, but isn't it a shame they can't seem to get it together and have a paintball product that is new? Would this work? Look here government commitee people. It is the same thing we sold you 10 years ago, only we had eliminate a few custom things that you got in the past, but you didn't want them anyway. We went ahead with out asking since your are our only real customer anyway. We think we know what you what, but we'll dictate what you want just the same. Hey we made it slightly cheaper for you. :rolleyes:

muskratjim

06-21-2006, 09:03 AM

"Dont forget that agd makes more then just paintball markers, they have a couple contracts with the government for their less lethal guns. I am sure they arent having a problem paying the bills yet. "

and there lies the problem. company's that have a good steady income do not need to be inovative because its human nature to be lazy. if your bill are getting paid and you have your fun money don't tell me you would work any harder than you have to :cheers:

REDRT

06-21-2006, 09:10 AM

Arstron

06-21-2006, 09:29 AM

REDRT

06-21-2006, 09:45 AM

There have been more new products made for the automag in the past 3 years then for the autocockers, intimidators, spyders, etc.

ULE bodies, Warp ULE bodies, Tac one bodies, Warp Tac one bodies, slugs bodies and rails, the y-grip, ULE Trigger. Heck going from steel twist lock bodies to the aluminum cocker threaded bodies alone is more then most mfg. have done. Do I wish agd would make a new marker/new parts more offten, of course. However the platform that has been used for this gun for the past 16 years still out performs most if not all mech markers on the market.

Sure enough AGD mech markers are great. Too bad very few people know this. Or if they do why does everything else sell better?

I'm thinking that even the REC market is going to be mostly Electronic in the next few years. Smart Parts has created a entery level e-marker that is cheaper than higher end mechancals with high end electro features. It doesn't matter if you like them or don't the market has to respond. Agd doesn't respond to much. Little items AGD has done for there aging line has kept us around, but it has just been the potatoes. Where is the beef?

RapidTransit

06-21-2006, 10:41 AM

Lets not forget how much TK hates hype... Anyone remember the crown point barrel incident? It just goes to show that hype alone is what really sells a marker.

Take the Tag boards they claim "asynchronous trigger sampling" and this is a major selling point but from my understanding of microcontrollers. It dosnt matter if its optical, hes, or switch. Because they all have to wait for the processor to receive an interupt code from the switch which would be a voltage applied to a pin. But processors are not linear they have a rise and a falling cycle nothing is continuous.

Muzikman

06-21-2006, 11:00 AM

The last marker I heard that AGD was producing was a less than lethal for the government... I wonder how much R&D they're actually putting into the consumer market nowa days...

Their Less-Lethal is finished. It has been for close to 6 years. It's being mfged and sold by FN, it's the FN303.

As for governemtn products, has anyone seen the semi-auto version of the teargas-ball shooters some police have? Seems a bolt that -never- chops paint would be very desirable for that sort of use.

You can't chop an FN303.

slade

06-21-2006, 11:16 AM

Their Less-Lethal is finished. It has been for close to 6 years. It's being mfged and sold by FN, it's the FN303.

You can't chop an FN303.
haha new people are funny, they act like 90% of AO doesnt already know about the FN303.

Skittle

06-21-2006, 11:38 AM

haha new people are funny, they act like 90% of AO doesnt already know about the FN303.

You're funny. He has 2000 more posts than you.

slade

06-21-2006, 11:43 AM

You're funny. He has 2000 more posts than you.
...says the guy with 200 posts.

...i was posting in response to the two people muzik quoted, about how they join the forum and talk about the FN303 like no one here knows about it, and muzik has to respond saying its been out for 6 years...

:rolleyes:

Skittle

06-21-2006, 11:55 AM

200 well thought-out posts, I tell you.

I wasnt trying to be a jerk, I thought you were flaming him though, sorry.

slade

06-21-2006, 11:59 AM

200 well thought-out posts, I tell you.

I wasnt trying to be a jerk, I thought you were flaming him though, sorry. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/t33kyboy/_headpat__by_adamguest1985.gif

haha aww, such a cute, thoughtful newbie.

nope, sorry, not flaming, its okay ;)

slade

06-21-2006, 12:02 PM

If you believe that, there is little to say.

AGD turned over their whole marker. New Valve, Bodies, Frames, Rails, Bolt, ULT's. There is little more they could do to update their marker.

If by "beef" you mean a completely new platform...dont hold your breathe. Thats an undertaking that takes years and lots of money. Remember, the poppet valve has been around for over 50 years. And 90% of the market uses that "aging" technology.
see? AGD is still around with just the potatoes, score one for vegetariansim ;)

seriously, i think we should just have a sticky, there have been far too many "AGD is dying/lets discuss where AGD is going" threads.

Chronobreak

06-21-2006, 12:27 PM

see? AGD is still around with just the potatoes, score one for vegetariansim ;)

seriously, i think we should just have a sticky, there have been far too many "AGD is dying/lets discuss where AGD is going" threads.

or a nice big update from tom

:hint: :hint:

dont think weve heard much if anything from him lately,

his post are always vague and cryptic, such as "were always working on soemthing" sry if i dont remember the quote exactly im too lazy to search it out

they seem to still be making e-mags, or finding it worthwhile to do so...or they really had a ton of parts leftover :rolleyes:

Muzikman

06-21-2006, 12:41 PM

or a nice big update from tom

:hint: :hint:

dont think weve heard much if anything from him lately,

his post are always vague and cryptic, such as "were always working on soemthing" sry if i dont remember the quote exactly im too lazy to search it out

they seem to still be making e-mags, or finding it worthwhile to do so...or they really had a ton of parts leftover :rolleyes:

They had a ton of parts.

Skittle

06-21-2006, 12:49 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/t33kyboy/_headpat__by_adamguest1985.gif

haha aww, such a cute, thoughtful newbie.

nope, sorry, not flaming, its okay ;)

low posts=yes

noob=nah

im an 02'er :cheers:

maxama10

06-21-2006, 12:57 PM

low posts=yes

noob=nah

im an 02'er :cheers:

youve been lurking in the shadows of AO huh? :p

Skittle

06-21-2006, 01:02 PM

like a hunchback ;)

peewee

06-21-2006, 01:24 PM

You are lucky to have rememberd your pass word. I had to restart from scratch after a couple years away from AO.

REDRT

06-21-2006, 01:27 PM

You're funny. He has 2000 more posts than you.

More like 3k posts more, but who's counting? :p

Bigman

06-21-2006, 01:28 PM

The simple fact is that they've been mainting their line, new bodies and improving parts but they're at a point where they need something else to sell. Not because they're old because people want MORE! Listen to you guys you're all chomping at the bit to see if AGD is going to come out with anything truely new. Would I like to see more improvements to the RT or X-Valve and level 10 kit or eyes for the e-mag? Hell yes but you can only do so much to a marker thats already awsome. I think the concesous is that AGD is here, just here. They make good stuff to a select few that still know of them and until they try to break new ground they'll just be here.

By the way don't ever call me a newbie again. I rarely post on here for the same reason that people hardly buy AGD stuff.

REDRT

06-21-2006, 02:34 PM

If you believe that, there is little to say.

AGD turned over their whole marker. New Valve, Bodies, Frames, Rails, Bolt, ULT's. There is little more they could do to update their marker.

Nonsence. They offer what they want and not what they can. There is always something to improve upon. Take an Emag for example. The battery pack. The Xmag style one was the best looking. Not available anymore. the Battery inside it is heavy in comparison to a 9v. Improve that! Alot of people complain about the battery pack. Save the weight, and make it look more appealing. Maybe even run on a 9v, but that leads to other things. The list goes on and on. Nothing is perfect and everything can be improved opon.

The banner reads, "Because Quality Always Shoots Straight" it should read "Because We Don't Want To"

slade

06-21-2006, 03:24 PM

AGD gave you the XValve, ULE body, Level 10, ULT, Y-Grip, amongst other things that were created in response to AO demand(and some sold like crap).
well, ive bought every single one of those... ;)

jsdatjsd

06-21-2006, 04:30 PM

and there lies the problem. company's that have a good steady income do not need to be inovative because its human nature to be lazy. if your bill are getting paid and you have your fun money don't tell me you would work any harder than you have to :cheers:

Well, the other thing is....government contracts do get cut. Mine did about 2 months ago. I found another job, because my skills are in demand. If AGD loses govt funding, then......<phbbbt>.....

FooTemps

06-21-2006, 04:37 PM

well, ive bought every single one of those... ;)

ditto except the ule body, I didn't ask for that.

Skittle, you've been here since 02!? Does that mean you were at chat parties!?

REDRT

06-21-2006, 04:42 PM

Thats a crock.

AGD gave you the XValve, ULE body, Level 10, ULT, Y-Grip, amongst other things that were created in response to AO demand(and some sold like crap).
We should have got the Lvl 10 free for sticking with AGD and their blenders for so long. :rolleyes: The best item out of the bunch. ULE body is ok, but whom ever did the nickel plating sucks. One I never used and was just laying here in the house started to bubble and flake. Just my extra one not even mounted. Now that is a crock!

AGD offers what you ask for. Until you get what you ask for, and then dont buy it. :eek:

I buy like there is no tomorrow, I never asked for the world and I didn't ask for anything for years. I just excepted the way it was. Never questioning why and why not. Now I am. If AGD is one of the oldest paintball companies still in existence and have so many innovative ideas and patents. How is it that the company is so detatched from the industry?

jsdatjsd

06-21-2006, 04:57 PM

You know, I still can't complain about the product lineup. Not one bit. I was actually worried that they had gone all electro at one point.

I like that they concentrate on pneumatics.

My only complaint (and it is more serious in my mind than getting new products) is that the websites and dealer directories aren't updated.

Heck, I could probably help them out there. Im sure there a re a dozen or more AO'ers that would as well.

JD

REDRT

06-21-2006, 05:12 PM

I didn't buy the Emag until 04. Honestly I couldn't see having one before hand. The Xmag I found so different I felt it was ugly. The Xmag grew on me over time and I feel after having the mag line up, the Emag might be the best all around AGD marker IMO. I believe it is stupid and foolish not to persue the E-class marker. I personally think it will be AGDs undoing. I really shouldn't care about AGD at all. I have my own business to deal with, but I feel strongly about things I like and dislike envolving my hobbies.

dahoeb

06-21-2006, 05:35 PM

i agree with rogue when he said paintball technology was nearing its technological envelope. it really is, and the mag is just about there too. besides maybe improving efficiency of markers, theres really just not much more to do.

though the mag is a wonderful marker, but people nowadays would probably consider it boring; no fun little solenoids or lprs or dwell or eyes or ramping or grease to slap down. after 30 min of LX tuning you just gas it up, shoot, and run oil in the asa.
but i wouldn't want my paintball gun or AGD any other way.

Battlewear

06-21-2006, 07:55 PM

I agree with the concept that the industry is not going to move much further technologicly in terms of electro's.. I think they have come to a point for maximum.. I think where we will see things go is Pneumatics, that seems really hot, to lighter and lighter markers and maybe further development of that QU valve (sorry not sure of the exact name), but I think the whole electro thing will slow.. Granted they will still be hot! I dont think that will ever change but how fast can you really make them fire? Paintballs will eventually only feed at a max rate..

What I think most people want to know is AGD going to continue to Live, not just survive. Man can survive off bread and water, but it takes real Firepower to live ;)

After reflection of Rogues posts I do see they (AGD) have produced a number of products, and they are some amazing products. Things like the ULE Body, the X Valve and such take the MAG that much further by lightening a sweet marker, things like the ULT and LVL X bolt make it that much more reliable and fun to shoot. So how can AGD make something to bring the people back? I dont know, if I knew that I would be knocking on Rogues door to make it for me ;) But I do know that people care, they want to see AGD doing more things but then who doesnt out of the companies they love :)

I think the products that the dealers produce like Doc's Cocker to Mag Barrel Adapter, Rogues 15 degree ASA, Tuna's products produced more, on a bigger scale. I know they are costly to make and so would need to sell, but if you get the backing of a company LIKE AGD to help produce the products wouldnt that possibly help reduce the cost, making the products cheaper making it easier to sell.. I for one would buy so many of the products but unfotunately I am not Bill Gates :) As a Procurement Agent I know that there are ways to reduce costs, and if you can reduce the costs by 10% you have the chance to lower the price while still gaining more profits.

** Drinks Water - Dry mouth from being long winded LOL **

I still love and will always love AGD, I will continue to spend 400.00 on getting a new valve or 600+ on a new body grib and mods to keep my AGD fix going :)

<3 AGD! :hail:

Cow hunter

06-21-2006, 08:00 PM

What I think most people want to know is AGD going to continue to Live, not just survive. Man can survive off bread and water, but it takes real Firepower to live ;)

After reflection of Rogues posts I do see they (AGD) have produced a number of products, and they are some amazing products. Things like the ULE Body, the X Valve and such take the MAG that much further by lightening a sweet marker, things like the ULT and LVL X bolt make it that much more reliable and fun to shoot. So how can AGD make something to bring the people back? I dont know, if I knew that I would be knocking on Rogues door to make it for me ;) But I do know that people care, they want to see AGD doing more things but then who doesnt out of the companies they love :)

well the first thing AGD should do is actually put effort into marketing, maybe sponsor a team, go to some big events, i would LOVE to see an AGD tent at any of the tournaments/D-day. secondly, they have an awesome reputation with those who know them, and i know quite a few people who would get a mag just to try and re-live some of the times they had "back in the day, shooting their ever reliable mag"

REDRT

06-21-2006, 10:42 PM

I agree with the concept that the industry is not going to move much further technologicly in terms of electro's..
That is because the industry has gone and done it and is doing it. I'm saying AGD might as well not even be considered part of this industrial growth. They stopped dead when SP a (once lonely barrel company mind you :rolleyes: ) sued anyone they could and become an industry leader. Even then before all the hoopla. AGD needed to invest themselves futher on the developement of the E-markers software. Now the arguement was the whole ASTM standards thing. Well them standards never really held up. Tom abided by them and did the right thing in his mind, but come on when you start to see a decline in sales (the bottom line) and the industry is breaking the rules that they set. What are you going to do? Stop what your doing and hide I guess. If your going to make it in this world sometimes you have to take risks and go for broke. No backing down. Beat them in their own game. Fight fire with fire. Play rough, play dirty, play to win. But backing down and and trying not to create waves is what happened. End result was we all lost here in the AGD camp. :(

I think the products that the dealers produce like Doc's Cocker to Mag Barrel Adapter, Rogues 15 degree ASA, Tuna's products produced more, on a bigger scale.

Too bad AGD has ended production of the raw items to make some of the cool things. It isn't a question if they are going to shoot themselves in the foot, only how bad. :cry:

Skittle

06-22-2006, 07:57 AM

Skittle, you've been here since 02!? Does that mean you were at chat parties!?
I was there for a couple lol, it was a long while ago! I was only like....15 then lol.

and i know quite a few people who would get a mag just to try and re-live some of the times they had "back in the day, shooting their ever reliable mag"
I'm one of those people.

Muzikman

06-22-2006, 09:35 AM

AGD needed to invest themselves futher on the developement of the E-markers software. Now the arguement was the whole ASTM standards thing. Well them standards never really held up. Tom abided by them and did the right thing in his mind, but come on when you start to see a decline in sales (the bottom line) and the industry is breaking the rules that they set. What are you going to do? Stop what your doing and hide I guess. If your going to make it in this world sometimes you have to take risks and go for broke. No backing down. Beat them in their own game. Fight fire with fire. Play rough, play dirty, play to win. But backing down and and trying not to create waves is what happened. End result was we all lost here in the AGD camp. :(

This is the exact reason I respect Tom. There are few in this industry that look out for the safety of the players. I would not criticize him for doing that. He understands the dangers of the sport and doesn't want to risk players, and more importantly (to him) himself and the company. AGD's slogan might be "Because Quality Always Shoots Straight" but their philosophy has always seemed to be "Safety First".

Everything in the Automag is over engineered, most of which comes back as a safety feature. I was shocked when Tom started moving to aluminum for some things...like the valve.

RapidTransit

06-22-2006, 10:14 AM

Product developments come with a recession. Right now paintball has hit its high mark and is starting to decline, this is when real innovation starts. Look in your history books folks because this is what happens in every industry.

AGD probably has better things to do then parade around and advertise everywhere. If you are serious about the sport then you should know AGD. Why should they advertise for a cult like following?

AGD is not going anywhere and even if they did go under I don't know of any marker company exec who wouldn't want the oppurtunity to buy AGD and scoop up those gov't contracts and utilize there R&D and manufacturing skills. They have to be doing something right with a marker design that still performs so well today being based on a design well over 10 years old.

Where most companys use 6061 heat treated aluminum, AGD uses 7075, theyd probably use 7068 if it wern't 3x more expensive just for the stock not including the extra time and effort in order to machine it. AGD takes pride in quality and that is what sells these markers.

astroboy

06-22-2006, 10:27 AM

Some companies move with the times, others reminisce about the good ole days... I remember when AGD first(?) came up with the idea of using nitrogen as a propellent and this was featured in Paintcheck(?) the magazine... I mentioned it to a local field owner and he laughed, calling it a 'crazy' idea... LOL! Yes this was the days of the awesome Tippmann 68 Specials and the PMI3 or was it VM68? The 'mag then came on the scene and it was magical how it shot compared to the other semi's... expensive as heck too! AGD was the forefront of tech and was very popular... somewhere along the line something happened... and here they are now... I don't think it is SP's fault because other companies are doing fine even after SP's lawsuits... maybe being a paintball company in a fledgling industry was a lot easier than being a paintball company in an industry that is said to be the fastest growing sport in North America...?