Anodizers once again

[StygShore]

Well....

Absolute finish is not doing personal paintball guns anymore ( guess I can throw out that quote they gave me )

A+ and FBM appear to be one in the same based on their galleries of work.

I am getting some good info and so-so pricing from A+, but want some other opinions and prices.

Can anyone else recommend another anodizer that does nice work and is experienced in the paintball industry? Please provide links to their sites.


Thanks


Styg

[trev_pbller]

From what I've heard in general from one person I trust a bunch, and personal experience, I wouldn't go the A+ way.

Try PK
http://www.pkselective.com/

[thefool]

what about smaller annodising shops?

wouldnt trust them?

[rkjunior303]

A+ seems to do what they want.

PK is who did the X-Mags.

[StygShore]

I wish PK had more stuff on their site, I know they have been in the business for a long long time, and always did sweet work, but their site doesnt have jack for samples and ideas.

Where is RedRT did he ever get his gun back from them? How does it look?


I know there are a lot of smaller shops out there, and some do good work, others are useless and colorblind.

I am having my X-Mag done, so I want to make sure it is done right....

So A+/FBM, PK Slective, and PrecisionPB are about the only choices out there?

Thanks


Styg

[StygShore]

Odd since A+ has samples of a couple dozen fade X-mags on their site that I know are from the original batches ( even the one with lightning is on there )


Styg



A+ seems to do what they want.

PK is who did the X-Mags.

[StygShore]

I saw they can actually screen print anodize, now that would be cool.


I imagine I'll have to sign away my first born, but getting graphics printed to the side of the gun would be so cool.


I wonder if anyone keeps a database of PK paintball gun pics or anyhting. I'll email them and see what they send back to me.


Thanks

Styg

[trev_pbller]

I believe PK did my triple fade on the Tunamax.

[StygShore]

I believe PK did my triple fade on the Tunamax.

This post is useless without pics :)

Let's see some of the PK work out there.



Styg

[PnueMagger]

Look up slipoftheknife here on AO. he's doing one of mine in Acid Wash Blue - I'm shipping it to him sometime later this week. I'll post pics. His prices are great and pics looked good too.
Top pic is his splashes - Bottom pic is his Acid Washes - Sorry about size, they're not my pics
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f370/SlipoftheKnife/P5270060.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f370/SlipoftheKnife/P5260048.jpg

[REDRT]

I wish PK had more stuff on their site, I know they have been in the business for a long long time, and always did sweet work, but their site doesnt have jack for samples and ideas.

Where is RedRT did he ever get his gun back from them? How does it look?


I know there are a lot of smaller shops out there, and some do good work, others are useless and colorblind.

I am having my X-Mag done, so I want to make sure it is done right....

So A+/FBM, PK Slective, and PrecisionPB are about the only choices out there?

Thanks


Styg

Here I am. I'm over here now :rofl: I blame it on SpitFire1299 since he forgot the camera at the AO meet. :rolleyes: No pics of mine to post yet. :mad: As god as my witness PK was able to color match my karta to my lowers exactly. The 2 color fade is perfect. The colors are the same, it starts and ends where it is supposed to fade and even the angle of the fade is correct. Granted they did the color originally along with the other trick colors the Emags and Xmags came in, but I never expected the level of perfection they did for me. I've had stuff done at different places and non has had remotly close the the quality of PK. Turn around time was good. I sent it priority USPS. Took a week to get there. :eek: So much for priority! Anyway I had it back to me with in two weeks of them receiving it. Communication is ok, but not the worlds greatest. They do however do amazing work. Price wise I found them to be competative with in a few bucks. I know first hand the work they do, I think it ia some of the best out there and I recommend them highly. Any time I need anodizing from now on they have my return business.

[Ratt]

Does anyone know who BradAGD sends his stuff to? I just sent my Emag to him to get milled, then I am having him send it out to get anno'd. I haven't heard anything from him in a while. I am out to sea right now, so I can't pick up the phone and call him. Also, I think we need to get a new forum going. In the forum we should list all the annodizing shops and post pics of their work, along with personal reviews/opinions. Anybody agree/disagree?

[REDRT]

Here you go. This was one probably is PKs handy work. It is the same color as my Emag minus the RED . Mine is the yellow/gold to orange. It is awesome with a nice afternoon sunset. Anyway I hope this helps you out...

http://users.skynet.be/fa276291/images/XmagAbaddon.jpg

[Ratt]

Wow...that thing is beautiful!

[StygShore]

I almost bought an emag years ago with that anno pattern.

The one I am looking at now is simalar, but reverse it and acid wash it with black.


Styg

[trev_pbller]

Styg I'm sure you've seen mine- here I snapped a few off this morning for my F/S ad:

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9950/graduationtunamax0070bc.th.jpg (http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=graduationtunamax0070bc.jpg)
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/1386/graduationtunamax0089rg.th.jpg (http://img58.imageshack.us/my.php?image=graduationtunamax0089rg.jpg)
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/5660/tunamaxii0022wb.th.jpg (http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tunamaxii0022wb.jpg)
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6848/tunamaxii0014qw.th.jpg (http://img210.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tunamaxii0014qw.jpg)
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4757/tunamaxii0048qh.th.jpg (http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tunamaxii0048qh.jpg)

I tried to get it in different lighting. It's beautiful.

[StygShore]

Wow looks really nice, and you said PK did yours as well?


How long do they usually take to get back to you when you request a quote? I sent a rather lengthy email to them yesterday with what I was looking for, hope to hear back from them soon.


I was looking for local anodizers, and I could not find anyone in the Michigan area that had a good email address, or that could do small batch orders. I figured going tlocally, I might be able to "supervise" the process.

I did get a new qote back from A+ and they are cheaper with the new pattern chose....


Thanks


Styg

[trev_pbller]

I'm not sure, Tuna sent my gun off when he built it- but I'm sure they hold true to their word, around 2-3 weeks wait.

I'm 99% positive that PK did my gun- another anodizer lost my gun for several, more like 3-6 months. Not a good experience. As you can see with the Xmags and guns like mine, PK does an outstanding job.

[StygShore]

Still waiting on my response back on a quote.

I had asked them about their anolaze screen print process, found a cool pic that fits the clor scheme I want to do on the X-mag


Styg

[SummaryJudgement]

PK Selective did the Shark Attack and the Rainmaker. Both finishes are top notch :D

http://www.putfile.com/jacktastic78

[StygShore]

Those all look pretty nice...


who did the rest of em? like th eorange micro and stuff

making me really want to get my quote back from PK!!!


Styg

[SummaryJudgement]

All of the rest of them were like that whenI got them (the micros and everything else). The other "shark attack" is not one of the original three, but I think it was done at MAX annodizing. They used to have pics of it on their site.

[REDRT]

Those all look pretty nice...


who did the rest of em? like th eorange micro and stuff

making me really want to get my quote back from PK!!!


Styg

Call PK on the phone. Otherwise they ment not get back to ya. When I talked to them it went something like this.

me: HI I got this and was told you originally did it.
PK: Ya
me: I'd like to have this done
PK: Ya
me: Can you do it?
PK: YA
me: Any idea on turn around time & cost?
PK: just send it in to us and we'll get it done for you, have a nice day, bye

Remember I did say communication isn't glorious. :rolleyes: I sent mine in not knowing how long or how much, but I knew they were my only hope. ;) For an idea my Karta body, rail, and sub-zero feedneck were done. 2 color fade and highly polished and the COD back to me was $153 total. I didn't feel this to be out of line being the quoted cost of the other guys were very close.

[StygShore]

153.00 aint bad

I was quoted about 200 for a 3 color fade acid wash from A+, so thats about in line.

I send a graphic along wihtt he email to see if they could do it or not

If they cant do the graphic I'll probably have them do some tatoos or somethin in the pattern I chose.


Styg

[A-Tach-One]

Here you go. This was one probably is PKs handy work. It is the same color as my Emag minus the RED . Mine is the yellow/gold to orange. It is awesome with a nice afternoon sunset. Anyway I hope this helps you out...
Hey that's my XMag and tank! Only change I made was the trigger, put a gloss black Tunablade instead. I never found for sure who anno'd on that Tequila but like you I suspect it was PK. :cheers:

[StygShore]

seems PK is very good at the Tequilla fade :)

Anything else? anybody else got a confirmed PK?


Styg

[REDRT]

Here is a red acid washed done originally by PK for AGD. This one is currently up for grabs right in the classifieds. I might end up with one of these in due time. I love the purple like blotches contrasting the red with this acid wash. This color really is rather stunning in person.

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a187/slimsunny34/DSC00571.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a187/slimsunny34/DSC00570.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

[StygShore]

saw one of these at IAO a few years back, they do look nice, but a little too "pink" for me :)


Has anyone ever had a graphic anodized onto their gun besides acid or splash?

Seems like all the other shops do is solid colors and then mix and match pieces in those colors.

Styg

[eric_503]

knightmare96 on paintballcity.org does some pretty nice work

http://www.paintballcity.org/forums/showthread.php?t=216 cheap to i had my mag quoted at $50-$60 for a black and orange acid wash

[StygShore]

Looks liek he is still perfecting his talents. If it was just a scrap gun, maybe, but for the X-mag, I gotta go with someone with a little more experience.


Its pretty much looking like I will go with PK if they will do it, or A+ since they already quoted me. I just cant see handing over the X-mag and having to HOPE it comes out nice :) Or getting the call like RedRT did - it's "close" :eek:




Styg

[SpitFire1299]

Here I am. I'm over here now :rofl: I blame it on SpitFire1299 since he forgot the camera at the AO meet. :rolleyes: No pics of mine to post yet. :mad: As god as my witness PK was able to color match my karta to my lowers exactly. The 2 color fade is perfect. The colors are the same, it starts and ends where it is supposed to fade and even the angle of the fade is correct. Granted they did the color originally along with the other trick colors the Emags and Xmags came in, but I never expected the level of perfection they did for me. I've had stuff done at different places and non has had remotly close the the quality of PK. Turn around time was good. I sent it priority USPS. Took a week to get there. :eek: So much for priority! Anyway I had it back to me with in two weeks of them receiving it. Communication is ok, but not the worlds greatest. They do however do amazing work. Price wise I found them to be competative with in a few bucks. I know first hand the work they do, I think it ia some of the best out there and I recommend them highly. Any time I need anodizing from now on they have my return business.
I totally thought of your gun when i read the first post. :D

Indeed.. the fade match was perfect.

[REDRT]

Looks liek he is still perfecting his talents. If it was just a scrap gun, maybe, but for the X-mag, I gotta go with someone with a little more experience.


Its pretty much looking like I will go with PK if they will do it, or A+ since they already quoted me. I just cant see handing over the X-mag and having to HOPE it comes out nice :) Or getting the call like RedRT did - it's "close" :eek:




Styg

Here is the exact color I got so wild about the first time around! The other guy turned this exact fade out for me and told me it was very close. PK to the rescue! Picture the karta this fade on the lowers of the second Xmag. How could that be considered close?

<img src="http://www.jayloo.com/files/pics/36000/right-side_rs.JPG"></img>
<img src="http://www.jayloo.com/files/pics/36000/left-side_rs.jpg"></img>

http://users.skynet.be/fa276291/images/XmagAbaddon.jpg

[REDRT]

I totally thought of your gun when i read the first post. :D

Indeed.. the fade match was perfect.

Your a good kid. You deserve a centerfold mag also. :cheers:

[StygShore]

Close as in....the colors are so muted you can barely see the fade, and the die obviously dint take... but close :)


Styg

[REDRT]

That Xmag is 21jumpstreets. He just had it done a short time ago at A+. The color wasn't close to what I wanted/needed and I could see the contrast at 50 feet away from the lowers I needed to match. The whole marker done that way isn't the worst IMO, but the lowers should fade also to match the upper body IMO. There was other quality issues I personally had also. They didn't completely strip the old anodizing. Inside the rail it had black showing through. It look as if though it had been threw a fire of something. Where the body was hung for the process was visable on the outside of the body and two shall marks was left also with black showing through. Finally to me the finsh was like a car with bad orange peel. It might have been able to be buffed out, but it never was done or didn't appear so. It was dipped and shipped. I'll will never send anything more to them for anodizing work. I know Tuna feels the same. Although they are quick and have real good communication. Only if there quality was a tad better. They did send me my money back without me asking for it. After I emailed them they were wrong, "it wasn't as close as it would ever be". That was real nice of them. I didn't expect it since they did do service even though it wasn't what I had hoped. There Email to me stated they have 1000s of happy customers a year and maybe a couple few ever have a problem. Stop bashing us on the internet! Funny, I didn't feel I was bashing telling all my experiance as truthful as possible.

I think I have finally run out of things to say about this subject. :rolleyes: My advise is to send it to PK selectives. They have over 30 years of experiance and do it right. You are looking for a complicated process. I'd send it to the guys that probably invented the process.

[StygShore]

PK it is.... if they ever respond back to me, can't seem to get ahold of them via the web, I guess I will have to call them today.


As far as bashing A+, I don't think you were bashing them at all really, just making a statemnt that they did not even get close to the color match, and claimed that was -as close as anyone was going to get -. PK proved them wrong on that one.

A+ does some nice work, I have seen a lot of their jobs, but I also hear a lot of - " It was close to what I wanted" for people that do work through them. I fully understand anodizing is not always an exact science when it comes to doing the work on an entire marker. Each part is different and sometimes even the quality of metal is different!

I know Absolute had a tag on teir site they would no longer do shockers becasue the metal was crap that they were using to make them ( not an exact quote :cool: )



Styg

[REDRT]

Thing of it was. I seen that on their website and they had the right color pictured. I called to ask if they could do the color and I even used the website for a reference so there was no doubt. I expected it to be alot closer than it was. I'm not a prefectionist, but I have to have certain things looking nice. The mags are one of them.

[StygShore]

Anyne notice the guns on the A+ gallery are some of the same guns on the FBM gallery?

Are they one in the same, or does FBM send work out, or just have difficult stuff done elsewhere?


Styg

[trev_pbller]

Styg, trust me, between those two, you will be shooting yourself in the foot not going with PK. If you read my previous reply, you'll understand why I say that.

[StygShore]

Wellll.....


I guess my decision has been made for me... I have to go with A+ or FBM...


I just got an email back from Peter at PK and I quote:

"We do not do paint ball guns any more"


Styg

[trev_pbller]

Wow, that's amazing. I just heard of someone getting a few done. Oh well. Just be careful with your stuff Styg.

[A-Tach-One]

Wellll.....


I guess my decision has been made for me... I have to go with A+ or FBM...


I just got an email back from Peter at PK and I quote:

"We do not do paint ball guns any more"


Styg

That is interesting, no more paintball markers. :( Well, if you even think about sending an XMag to FBM, your going to have to try to get the body bushing out of the body before you send it. I sent my Euro body into them for gloss black anno and when I recieved my parts and put it back together, it cycled maybe 50 times and then a problem. My bolt and spring shot into the breech and became wedged. They had disolved my bushing in the acid bath do to not removing it as they should have. I had to send it to Roman at AGD to replace the bushing and it's good to go now. So maybe email them and ask if they take the body bushings out before the anno process , cause they didn't do it for mine. Goodluck. :cheers:

[StygShore]

That is interesting, no more paintball markers. :( Well, if you even think about sending an XMag to FBM, your going to have to try to get the body bushing out of the body before you send it. I sent my Euro body into them for gloss black anno and when I recieved my parts and put it back together, it cycled maybe 50 times and then a problem. My bolt and spring shot into the breech and became wedged. They had disolved my bushing in the acid bath do to not removing it as they should have. I had to send it to Roman at AGD to replace the bushing and it's good to go now. So maybe email them and ask if they take the body bushings out before the anno process , cause they didn't do it for mine. Goodluck. :cheers:

I was wondering if there was a bushing in the Xbody as well. I know Micromags have apress fit circle in there bodies, and the ELU's had the little snap ring.


Is the bushing pretty easy to remove? if so I'll take it out myself.

Styg

[A-Tach-One]

I was wondering if there was a bushing in the Xbody as well. I know Micromags have apress fit circle in there bodies, and the ELU's had the little snap ring.


Is the bushing pretty easy to remove? if so I'll take it out myself.

Styg

Generally they are not easy to remove. Most XMag bodies have a set screw on the underside and the body bushing will then thread out. But they are really in there, most likely you will not get it out on your own. AGD can take it out for you for sure. Sucks I know but it has to be done.

Here is a pic of the threading. I partially unscrewed the ring for you to see. Normally that body bushing should sit flush with the body.

http://www.jayloo.com/files/pics/36000/Bodybushing_tn.JPG (http://www.jayloo.com/photo_gallery/show_pic.html?pIMAGE_ID=36492)

[StygShore]

Ohhh so it is a threaded in piece, not like the snap ring or grooved press fit insert PTP uses. I might be able to actually get that out, I have some tools around the house that pretty much are used to remove similar parts

and her eI never thought I would have a use for some of my tools!!

How did you take yours out for the picture if they are hard to remove?


Styg

[REDRT]

Wellll.....


I guess my decision has been made for me... I have to go with A+ or FBM...


I just got an email back from Peter at PK and I quote:

"We do not do paint ball guns any more"


Styg

I just made the call to PK. Turns out it is news to them that they are not doing paintball guns anymore. They are rumored to blow people off via Email requests. I'm suprised you even found an email address for them. 1-408-988-1910 is the number. Might be worth the call.

[A-Tach-One]

How did you take yours out for the picture if they are hard to remove?


Styg

Lol, a freak occurance. I recieved this marker and upon breaking it down I found it was unthreading itself. :tard: Out of all the XMags I have owned this was a first, but with the other issues I was having with it I wasn't surprized. Also I think people use Tuna to anno their XMags because he has no problems removing the bushing either. But as he has stated, it is a process.

REDRT, good call! Definetly worth calling them. :cheers:

[StygShore]

He might also want to speak to Darren Shannon/Manager, Paintball/Multi-Color Department.

Sounds like Peter may not even be in the department dedicated to paintball. :spit_take


Is that Darren Shannon or Sahnnon Darren?

I called and asked for Darren Shannon, and they said she is out to lunch and doesnt have voice mail...

is this a dude or a chick I was looking to talk too?

Styg

[StygShore]

I just called and spoke with Effrin at PK and he said they do not do multi color anodizing of paintball guns anymore.

He said if I had a single color they could probably do that. ( ie, throw it in with another batch of someone elses stuff )



Styg

[StygShore]

if anyone gets ahold of someone over there that says they will still do paintball guns in multi colors trick anodizing please get their direct number and PM it to me.

Seems different people have different ideas over there depending who you talk to.

Peter - We don't do paintball guns at all
Effrin - we don't do multi color on paintball guns at all, we might be able to do a single color
RedRT's person - yeah we do paintball guns
Darren Shannon - I don't have voice-mail or email so you have to suffer! :cry: he/she didn't say that but the person I talked to on the line might as well have


Styg

[Chaos_Theory!]

I suggest www.precisionpb.com

If you want something really unique go with precision and work with ODD to come up with something.

[StygShore]

ODD stuff looks like everyone elses stuff :) - but this is interesting...

http://www.precisionpb.com/hate2.jpg

They are in Michigan though...way the heck up in the UP.... but they are in Michigan

I'll call them up and see what they can do.

Peter just emailed back and said they hardly do any paintball guns anymore, and just solid colors or simple fades. They dont have anyone there to take the time to do the custom finishes anymore.



Styg

[Chaos_Theory!]

ODD stuff hardly looks like everyone elses stuff. He can come up with the most amazing designs for your gun. He works with precision to do all the work.

Rick showed me the Hate shocker last night before he put pics up. Although its not my thing it looks amazing.

[REDRT]

ODD stuff looks like everyone elses stuff :) - but this is interesting...

http://www.precisionpb.com/hate2.jpg

They are in Michigan though...way the heck up in the UP.... but they are in Michigan

I'll call them up and see what they can do.

Peter just emailed back and said they hardly do any paintball guns anymore, and just solid colors or simple fades. They dont have anyone there to take the time to do the custom finishes anymore.



Styg

I talked to the office gal today. They will be doing my next creation even if I have to pay them extra. One way or another they are just that good.

[StygShore]

ODD who is ODD? Are they local here in Michigan somewhere?

The stuff Precision has in the bottom of their gallery is run of the mill stuff. The couple of ODD things they have look pretty good, but looks to be only 2 or 3 markers state they are designed by ODD.

I would be more than willing to talk to them to see what they can come up with.

Do you have a direct contact info for ODD?


RedRT - By the sounds of things they just dont have th epeople over at PK to do anythign overly fancy now. Peters second email said they can do solid colors and simple fades still, but nobody there can really do the custom stuff anymore. I even saw some posts on PBN where they flat out told people trying to match some pretty complex anno that nobody there knows how to do that stuff anymore.

Styg




ODD stuff hardly looks like everyone elses stuff. He can come up with the most amazing designs for your gun. He works with precision to do all the work.

Rick showed me the Hate shocker last night before he put pics up. Although its not my thing it looks amazing.

[Chaos_Theory!]

Precision just started working with ODD to do custom work. The site went up like 3 days ago, heres the link www.oddpb.com. Precision can do more than just run of the mill work on his own but if ya want something really good done get with ODD.

[StygShore]

Well, only saw a few of Odds things, but his site is shaping up pretty good, and with all the skulls and such on there... I think thats right up my alley. I emailed him a couple ideas today, we will see if he ever responds.

Has anyone else noticed a complete lack of response to emails from a lot of businesses out there when you are asking to do business with them and give them money?!?!?!?


Styg


Does he have a phone number? Where iis Oddpb.com out of?

[Chaos_Theory!]

I dont believe they have a phone number up anywhere but im sure theyll respond to your email. You could always ask them for a #. They come out of Pensylvania i think.

Like you, i live in michigan which is one of the reasons i go through precision. Not only is he close but his work is great.

[StygShore]

Hehe Marquette Michigan is almost as far away for me an Pennsylvania is :)

I live about an hour west of Detroit. But I do have a friend that lives up in Marquette, so maybe he can pick it up and bring it to me, or maybe I'll go get it when I go camping at Tequomenon Falls in August.

Somehow, I woul like to have the X for the monster game, but I have asked RRFIREBLADE to do some milling and work on it, and I'll have to get it to the anodizers, and then get it back and assemble it... so probably not going to happen.

I'll be barrowing one of Wyns guns ( heck he lives somewhere around me, could be my neighbor for all I know ) or shooting a barrowed tricked out A-5


Styg

[Chaos_Theory!]

I live about 2-3 hours from Detroit. If you work with ODD the guns gonna be sent to Precision anyway. They do the custom graphic design and laser engraving and precision does the anodizing. They work together to do everything.

[StygShore]

Do you have any work either of of them did?


Styg

[Chaos_Theory!]

Yeah, precision did my stage 5 and i just sent him a barrel tip, freak back, and LPR to be anoed.

[SpitFire1299]

Your a good kid. You deserve a centerfold mag also. :cheers:
Im working on it.. Once i get a job (Damn college kids took them all) :ninja: :D

[StygShore]

Stage 5? whats that? Is that a Lucky Ion or something like that?

Pics of any of it?


Styg

[Chaos_Theory!]

Its a rare body for the ion made by lucky. Only 99 made and less than that were sold to the public since they lost some eye covers. It really is pretty cool, a one piece body with the breech and firng chamber built in with easy bolt access (all you have to do is unscrew the end cap).

Theres a pic of it on precisions site but its not that great. The lighting is really bad. Once i get my other stuff back from them ill post some pics up or if i get a camera ill post some pics of the S5 alone.

[StygShore]

Sounds good.

I like some of their stuff, I am still waiting to hear back from ODD. I sent him 3 ideas for my gun, we will see which one he thinks is doable and would look the best.

Looks like PK and Absolute are still doing guns even though they both say they don't. PK said they can do solid colors and simple fades, and Little Ho just got a gun back from Absolute, even though they say right on their site they wont do individual guns anymore.


Styg

[Chaos_Theory!]

Absolute says they wont but if you send them an email and they aprove of what you want done they will ano your gun. Andy from Absolute stated that on PBN.

[StygShore]

Good to know...


Styg



I'll work with ODD and PRecision first then.... if either of them ever call/email back :)

[Chaos_Theory!]

You should be able to get ahold of Rick from precision pretty easy unless hes busy working on something. Calling him is def the best way to go unless you can catch him on AIM.