FBM Factory break in/robbery

[going_home]

Sent 3 markers to Fireball Mountain a couple weeks ago for anodizing.
Quite a high dollar value on the box a parts actually.
Chord V1 and V2 bodies, and a Karta setup, all with Logic UMF frames.
Several UL barrels and a blue Xvalve for color matching purposes.

How this all got started I had a Galactic Z body on Ebay they messaged me about.
Where the front trigger frame screw attaches to the Z body is steel, not aluminum
like the ULE bodies. They apparently anodized someones body and didnt remove
the steel part, and woops, the steel is history.

They wanted to trade anodizing for the body, since you cant just go to the store and
buy one any more.

Well I sent them the body, and got all my parts together and about a week later
sent them a box of parts. I called them because it never showed they recieved it
on USPS.com . They did recieve it. They have had it two weeks now.
Called yesterday, and apparently they were broken into tuesday night and a lot
of their customers parts/markers were stolen.

The guy said he was the one that was responsible for calling their customers with
the bad news and he was 99 percent sure my stuff was still there.

But I am supposed to call back today and talk to the girl I have been dealing
with and make sure, and find out when/ if I'll have the stuff back.

I have had several AO'ers ask me to post pics and my thoughts on the quality
of their work. I hope I get the chance to do that.
Thats the story, I will edit this post later today when I find out more.

Bad thing is most of the stuff will be very hard to replace.
Chords, Karta, UMF's, and try and find a blue Xvalve right now.

[BigEvil]

Damn that really blows. I hope they do the right thing and try to take care of you as best they can.

[StygShore]

Yeah I saw on their site the other day they had listed they were broken into, totally forgot you had told me you sent your stuff into them!!!

Hopefully the thief was a "Agg" kid that knew what he wanted, probably would have went for the cyborgs, shockers, etc over a box of parts.



Styg

On a second note.... unless the thief can anodize, how is he going to go about selling these custom guns, that many are 1 of 1?

[going_home]

Yeah I saw on their site the other day they had listed they were broken into, totally forgot you had told me you sent your stuff into them!!!

Hopefully the thief was a "Agg" kid that knew what he wanted, probably would have went for the cyborgs, shockers, etc over a box of parts.



Styg

On a second note.... unless the thief can anodize, how is he going to go about selling these custom guns, that many are 1 of 1?

I am hoping since my stuff was a box of parts and not assembled markers he left it alone.

[Chaos_Theory!]

Yeah they made i thread on PBN about it.

IMO its Karma. They stole Element Paintballs frame idea and used his actual CADs to make their ion frames.

I guess what goes around comes around.

Although i dont feel bad at all for FBM i hope everyone who had their stuff stolen gets compensated and those who didnt get their stuff stolen recieve their parts back.

[Arstron]

I really hate to hear that, what number was the karta and chord (was v1 and v2 chords both numbered?) so we can keep a look out for the bodies atleast.

[CKY_Alliance]

Is FBM and Planet Eclipse in the same area by chance? Seems like there has been a lot of paintball related burglaries lately..

[Dark Frost17]

sorry to here!!!

[rkjunior303]

PE:USA is located in Rhode Island.

[going_home]

Just called FBM.
They said my box of parts was right beside a pile of stuff that was stolen
and they didnt take any of it.
Mostly PM6 and cocker parts and some boards.
Evidently they werent mag fans. I am happy to be in a proud minority ! LOL

Either that or they saw the puke green Karta and figured it would stick out
like a sore thumb, but it will be black soon anyway. LOL

http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/?action=view&current=729934cc.jpg

So I will have my stuff back by the July 4th weekend and will try and post some pics.
I must go now and do the happy dance !

:clap: :dance: :clap: :dance: :clap: :dance: :clap: :dance: :clap: :dance:

[WenULiVeUdiE]

Is FBM and Planet Eclipse in the same area by chance? Seems like there has been a lot of paintball related burglaries lately..

Not at all. FBM is located in South Jersey while PE is located in Rhode Island.

This occured on Monday night. The previous day I was playing at their field. That was also the day their compressor was down for 2 hours and the field appeard to be set up haphazardly. Not to many happy players that day. I remember observing their facilities as I always do and wondering how they had not yet been robbed. The facilities look like near decrepit shacks.

They stole alot of custom stuff that will be hard to sell. Those custom AKA and other frames will be impossible to sell. They have not yet been released to the public. I was lucky enough to hold one of the AKA's on Sunday. They also had a few of the freshly milled Cyborgs getting anodized there.

[Arstron]

Either that or they saw the puke green Karta and figured it would stick out
like a sore thumb, but it will be black soon anyway. LOL

http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/?action=view&current=729934cc.jpg

:cry: :cry: :cry:

You are getting that wwa karta mag re annoed? I always loved that mag on his page. :(

Glad to hear your stuff is still ok though, you should be able to get some sleep tonight now that you know its all ok. :dance:

[GT]

Is FBM and Planet Eclipse in the same area by chance? Seems like there has been a lot of paintball related burglaries lately..


Ecplise is an ocean away from FBM.

[Dark Frost17]

Ecplise is an ocean away from FBM.

no there is 1 in the states i am sending a board to them to fix

[FinchMan]

no there is 1 in the states i am sending a board to them to fix

wasn't it the overseas one that got broken into though? I thought it was.

[GT]

no there is 1 in the states i am sending a board to them to fix


Eclipses HQ is in england. How's that? :clap:

[going_home]

Eclipses HQ is in england. How's that? :clap:

Planet Eclipse Ltd
84 Cutler Street
Suite No.4
Warren
Rhode Island
02 885
t 401 247 9061
f 401 247 0931

From their website guys.
Never let it be said that I am a rocket scientist but some of the
stuff posted in here (AO) makes me think.......huh ?

Oh and the breakin at PE was in the UK per their site.

[olinar]

Just called FBM.
They said my box of parts was right beside a pile of stuff that was stolen
and they didnt take any of it.
Mostly PM6 and cocker parts and some boards.
Evidently they werent mag fans. I am happy to be in a proud minority ! LOL

Either that or they saw the puke green Karta and figured it would stick out
like a sore thumb, but it will be black soon anyway. LOL

http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/?action=view&current=729934cc.jpg

So I will have my stuff back by the July 4th weekend and will try and post some pics.
I must go now and do the happy dance !

:clap: :dance: :clap: :dance: :clap: :dance: :clap: :dance: :clap: :dance:
i saw a karta with that paintjob on ebay. is it the same one. did u buy it?

[going_home]

i saw a karta with that paintjob on ebay. is it the same one. did u buy it?

Yes sir

[going_home]

Got the parts back from Fireball Mountain yesterday and assembled the markers.
The only thing that was ok was the Karta and even that had some very slight miss spots,
but it was almost perfect, 8 out of 10 I guess.
Heres the Karta mag, and yes they anodized the UMF trigger blue so thats an F - :eek: :

http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/?action=view&current=69d418f3.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch8

http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/?action=view&current=5af17589.jpg

I sent a brand new blue Xvalve for them to match the Chord V1 and V2.
They matched fairly close on the rails, barrels, and UMF's but the bodies turned out almost purple. :mad:

V2 :

http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/?action=view&current=a4315526.jpg

http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/?action=view&current=cf5ef0c1.jpg

V1 :

http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/?action=view&current=8d8a26a4.jpg

http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/?action=view&current=25f65de8.jpg

So I guess overall, I really dont know if I would reccomend FBM or not.
Maybe its just me, am I being too picky ?
I mean I paid 245.00 + I sent them a like new Galactic Z body that they needed.
I think for that kind of money it should have been better.
They were in an uproar over the robbery and all though.

I am disapointed. I do have a black vert Logic, maybe I will trade triggers on the frames.
Those UMF frames should be illegal, with an tuned Xvalve/uLT you can actually walk the trigger. Amazing.

Anyways talk to me. Tell me if I'm being too critical.
Thanks.

[MaD_SaM]

Im a noob...but those are some very nice guns....selling them anytime soon!! :D

[going_home]

Im a noob...but those are some very nice guns....selling them anytime soon!! :D

I probably would for the right price.
But I'm not about to give them away.

[p8ntball72]

From what I understand Blue is the hardest color to anno, let alone match.
I have also heard the "AGD ICE" ULE bodies were Blue anno mistakes.

[robnix]

If I were you, I'd be mad. That doesn't even look close.

[50 cal]

Yeah they made i thread on PBN about it.

IMO its Karma. They stole Element Paintballs frame idea and used his actual CADs to make their ion frames.

I guess what goes around comes around.

Although i dont feel bad at all for FBM i hope everyone who had their stuff stolen gets compensated and those who didnt get their stuff stolen recieve their parts back.

So in your mind it's ok that people got their stuff stolen because someone copied a frame idea?

Wow, you'll go far in the business world someday.

[Beemer]

I mean I paid 245.00 + I sent them a like new Galactic Z body that they needed

What was the Z-Body worth? F.M.V.

How many pieces total anno?

[going_home]

What was the Z-Body worth? F.M.V.

How many pieces total anno?

I had the Z body on Ebay for 180.00 shipped when they contacted me about it.
Aparently they had anodized one without taking the steel part where the front
screw goes in. Its steel on a Z body, not aluminum and part of the body like a ULE.

It was 3 complete markers. They charge 150.00 per marker.
The barrel, front foregrip asa, and the feedneck on the Karta I had in black already
so that wasnt part, but I had them do 5 barrels total.

But when I saw that they anodized all 3 triggers blue(one should have been black)
and that they made the Chord bodies and feednecks totally different shades of blue
than the rest of the parts, I felt it was too much money.
(and they had a brand new blue Xvalve to color match)

[Beemer]

So thats like 425 cash, aprox?

The trig is easy to do over. For that price I would talk to Them and see what they will do on the bodies for ya. I would think they could get a lot closer then that on the color. It wont match perfect because of the differences in the aluminum.

[st6212]

...even that had some very slight miss spots

Hard to trust them in future with results like that.

[FromTheBack]

I've heard some negative things about FBM as of lately but in the past they have been really good.

The body color being different is because AGD used a type of Aluminum for the slug that doesnt bond with the anno the same as other aluminums and often you will find custom anno bodies looking different than their matching parts.

[going_home]

I've heard some negative things about FBM as of lately but in the past they have been really good.

The body color being different is because AGD used a type of Aluminum for the slug that doesnt bond with the anno the same as other aluminums and often you will find custom anno bodies looking different than their matching parts.

If you look at both of the Chord bodies and the CCM feednecks I sent,
both bodies and both feednecks are all identical shades of blue.

So seeing the feednecks werent AGD's product there has to be another reason.
Every other blue part is an identical lighter shade of blue.
Both rails, both barrels, both UMF trigger frames, both DW foregrips.

Only thing I can figure is the bodies and feednecks were anodized in a different
batch than the rest of the blue parts.
Its just a major disappointment after spending all that time finding these rare parts.
And try and find a blue Xvalve right now.

[FromTheBack]

If you look at both of the Chord bodies and the CCM feednecks I sent,
both bodies and both feednecks are all identical shades of blue.

So seeing the feednecks werent AGD's product there has to be another reason.
Every other blue part is an identical lighter shade of blue.
Both rails, both barrels, both UMF trigger frames, both DW foregrips.

Only thing I can figure is the bodies and feednecks were anodized in a different
batch than the rest of the blue parts.
Its just a major disappointment after spending all that time finding these rare parts.
And try and find a blue Xvalve right now.

That definately could be the case; I've just heard of this happening in multiple cases and sometimes the bodies do some really weird coloring. Maybe CCM / AGD use the same grade of aluminum? Either way they should have taken this into account, sorry to hear it didnt go as well as you planned. They still look awesome though,

[st6212]

What I find troubling is that some of these anno places aren't quality checking their work.

I mean if I was running an anno business and I saw a difference in the anno with the parts or a bad anno on a part (specks), I would question it and find out why it has turned out like that and do something about fixing it. And if there isn't a solution, then contact the customer and inform them and send them pics to show them what's happening. Customer satisfaction is key, especially when word of mouth reputation is important in the anno business.

Instead what I am reading is some of these anno places are just sending the jobs back to their customer as is without contacting them of any problems, only to have the customer receive them and be shocked and disappointed by the poor result.

The list of reliable and quality anno places seem to be dwindling down either from closing shop, no longer doing PB guns, or bad anno experiences.

I think PB Precision will be where I will turn to, unless anyone has had any bad experiences with them?

[PrecisionPB]

I really, really, REALLY hate to bash a company. So, I'm going to do my best to not let that happen here. We (Me, Rick Holmes... occasionally I have some help on the prep work) run 12 - 15 orders a week. That being said, I am an ENTIRELY paintball anodizer. What I see alot when commercial anodizers come into paintball is a failure to grasp what paintballers expect. You go from anodizing 12,000 fenceposts dust black... a small blurb on a 1/4 sqft part is no big deal to you. That, to my understanding is not the case with FBM.

FBM has always been a paintball only anodizer, and in the day of Krazee, that was some graphic work to be admired. I know now that Krazee is no longer doing the anodizing work (much to his excitement) and has taken a cushy county job. Theres a new guy now, and I believe his name is Drew. I'm not sure if he just does graphics, or what. In any case, the blem rate is up since the departure of Krazee. This could be lack of practice, lack of knowledge of the line, or just plain ol not bein paid enough.

Enough on FBM, and onto the anodizing problem at hand.

Across a batch of how many parts do you have mis-matched colors? Alloy differentials CAN cause color differences, but with a clean electrolyte, good PH on your dyes, and clean nickel sealer this should be a minimal color difference. In the case of VERY high foreign contents, this can be uncorrectable (at which point, I usually powdercoat the bastards black). The short of that is: Its possible its alloy differential, but its more likely a problem with the line/prep/chemistry.

Should this stuff leave the shop without being accounted for? I would say no. At worst, I would think the customer should be called, and be told what is going on. If the parts can't be redone for whatever reason (often times some shops will redo parts until they are correct without telling the customer, I will not redo without permission) then the customer should be offered a refund and a sincere apology. Obviously, sometimes this kind of thing happens. Best case resolution here would be to fix your line and chemistry, and get consistently good results.

All that being said, I will say this about my operation: I have a failure rate of about 7 - 8%, with about 3.5% being undetected failure. That means of the 7 in 100 parts that are borked for whatever reason, 3 of those parts will get out of my shop without me noticing. For the customer that gets that three percent, I have _never_ had a problem resolving the matter to the customers satisfaction. Its obviously my bad, I do within reason whatever makes the customer happy.

In one more recent case, a customer recieved a marker with a thin anodic layer. The color went on the marker great, and I didn't even think to scratch test it. It was soft, after a week or two of use the ano was going to crap. Customer was polite yet upfront about how he felt (this is a MUST... if the customer is going to be a prick about it... :mad: ), we are redoing the marker, will reimburse him for all costs of shipping, and are going to add an AKA tattoo to the side of his marker free of charge for the mistake. Short of this: You get a bad ano here (and it isnt a perfect world it MIGHT happen to you), I'm not going to leave you with a crap ano and an empty wallet.


Hope this helps, Styg. I'd be happy to provide what educated insight I can on anodizing here in the future now that I've registered. (even though I hate mags... didn't you guys get the memo? nobody shoots mags anymore :) )

[REDRT]

I've heard some negative things about FBM as of lately but in the past they have been really good.

The body color being different is because AGD used a type of Aluminum for the slug that doesnt bond with the anno the same as other aluminums and often you will find custom anno bodies looking different than their matching parts.

Maybe so. PK selectives told me my karta was difficult to get right. Still they were able to do a perfect color match to the fade of the lowers. The company that has been doing anodizing for 30 years has my vote.

[StygShore]

Hope this helps, Styg. I'd be happy to provide what educated insight I can on anodizing here in the future now that I've registered. (even though I hate mags... didn't you guys get the memo? nobody shoots mags anymore :) )


Them's fightin words around here Rick :D

Get to liking mags, you're going to get to anodize my X-Mag in a few weeks here with one of ODD's fancy pain in the arse designs. :eek:

Thanks for the info and insight, I just got tired of hearing " its a differnt type of metal" blah blah blah....

Its like all the old parts that were anodized black and tuned purplish after a month of use=Crap anno that made it look good to get it out the door! I think AGD even had to suffer through that with their various anodizers becaue I remember quite a few purplish rails in my day.



Styg

[Chaos_Theory!]

Rick, I should get a referal discount for all the people i get to go to Precision for anodizing. Its Chase (chaosadrnln on AIM). jk about the discount thing lol

[PrecisionPB]

Lots of places use a less expensive dye for "black" which is often a super dark green/brown/purple. You only need half a mil with most dyes to get good color, and half a mil = half the time in tank = half the cost in time.

And with mags, I think its a mutual hate. Mag can be ripping face in one guys hands, get passed to be and turn into a blender with bolt stick. I've been sighted in woods fields with a gun apart in my lap yelling "Bad mag, bad mag!".

Chase - I always hook up return customers. You aren't an exception. Plus, you get free shiz this month with orders. You'll dig your free schwag.

[Chaos_Theory!]

Yeah i was jk, you always give me great prices and i enjoy refering people to your great anodizing service. Cant wait to get my parts in this coming week. Ill prob be sending a trigger frame to you soon as well. Im sure ill love the free stuff. :clap:

[StygShore]

I believe there are a fewlong term members of AO that are no longer allowed to even touch a mag, only look at them from afar :)

Is there a true BLACK dye?

Looking at Going_Homes pics, could you even speculate what caused the differences in color? It almost looks like the parts were done in different batches to me.



Styg

[PrecisionPB]

I believe there are a fewlong term members of AO that are no longer allowed to even touch a mag, only look at them from afar :)

Is there a true BLACK dye?

Looking at Going_Homes pics, could you even speculate what caused the differences in color? It almost looks like the parts were done in different batches to me.



Styg

Total speculation on my part to say what caused it. List of possibilities include:

Different times in dye tank
Different temps of dye when dying
Poor quality connection to lighter parts (true test would be color durability)

Even across different batches, the color should be the same given same dye/temp/dye time. Theres really no excuse for that kind of color differential. Holy effin crap. You paid HOW much for that ano? A body and $285 cash? My gods, its time to raise my prices I guess. I just quoted that job at slightly over $100.00....


Edited to say: Someone above said blue was the hardest color to anodize... there really isn't a "hard" color, its all the same as far as the dye is concerned. The hardest color to me is actually clear, because the parts have to be prepped perfectly. Lack of color hides no sins.

[Chaos_Theory!]

So in your mind it's ok that people got their stuff stolen because someone copied a frame idea?

Wow, you'll go far in the business world someday.

No, i just dont feel bad for a company that would steal ideas and claim them as their own. What goes around comes around. Besides, its there own damn fault they had their stuff stolen. With all that expensive merchandise and how bad they overcharge for stuff youd think they could at least have some security measures in place.

Precision and other anodizers only prove my point on how bad they overprice their anodizing.

[StygShore]

No, i just dont feel bad for a company that would steal ideas and claim them as their own. What goes around comes around. Besides, its there own damn fault they had their stuff stolen. With all that expensive merchandise and how bad they overcharge for stuff youd think they could at least have some security measures in place.

Precision and other anodizers only prove my point on how bad they overprice their anodizing.

Someone get this boy a shovel...he's diggin his own grave :) Lets pretend he didnt even post this response.....


Styg

[StygShore]

Multiple guns and colors - I think he had 3 full guns and barrel kits, plus some extras done. Soem were blue some were black

right?



Styg


Total speculation on my part to say what caused it. List of possibilities include:

Different times in dye tank
Different temps of dye when dying
Poor quality connection to lighter parts (true test would be color durability)

Even across different batches, the color should be the same given same dye/temp/dye time. Theres really no excuse for that kind of color differential. Holy effin crap. You paid HOW much for that ano? A body and $285 cash? My gods, its time to raise my prices I guess. I just quoted that job at slightly over $100.00....


Edited to say: Someone above said blue was the hardest color to anodize... there really isn't a "hard" color, its all the same as far as the dye is concerned. The hardest color to me is actually clear, because the parts have to be prepped perfectly. Lack of color hides no sins.

[PrecisionPB]

Entire marker pictured. Didn't include anything but that.

[Chaos_Theory!]

Someone get this boy a shovel...he's diggin his own grave :) Lets pretend he didnt even post this response.....


Styg

Heh, im not digging anything.

So many people seem way to dense to realize how pathetic FBM is.

[going_home]

Total speculation on my part to say what caused it. List of possibilities include:

Different times in dye tank
Different temps of dye when dying
Poor quality connection to lighter parts (true test would be color durability)

Even across different batches, the color should be the same given same dye/temp/dye time. Theres really no excuse for that kind of color differential. Holy effin crap. You paid HOW much for that ano? A body and $285 cash? My gods, its time to raise my prices I guess. I just quoted that job at slightly over $100.00....


Edited to say: Someone above said blue was the hardest color to anodize... there really isn't a "hard" color, its all the same as far as the dye is concerned. The hardest color to me is actually clear, because the parts have to be prepped perfectly. Lack of color hides no sins.

It was 2 blue markers and 1 black.
Let me know if you think I should send them pics and ask for some money back.
They arent getting a second chance from me.
The black trigger frame, they anodized the trigger blue also. :mad:
What is so bad is these bodies are rare out of production parts,
and it took me a long time to round them up.

http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/?action=view&current=8d8a26a4.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch4

http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/?action=view&current=a4315526.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch6

http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/?action=view&current=69d418f3.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch8

Thanks for the input everyone.