My Pmag is finally finished!! Review & Hi-res pics!!

[shorty24]

So, my Pmag project has finally been completed! I would dare say this is Pneumagger's greatest work... Major props to whistl3r, paint_magnet, Rogue, Luke, and of course Pneumagger for making this dream a reality. On to the review.

The Good

Trigger pull = practically nothing. Measured by Pneu at 1.8 ounces w/ ULT, and 2.2 ounces I believe w/ Emag on/off. This is honestly one of the smoothest shooting markers I've ever used, and by FAR the nicest mech. In fact, when firing its easy to forget that the gun is mech at all. Reaching a sustained 14 bps (see goldwave pic), this marker is by no means slow. Even better is the fact that when the LPR is dialed in just right w/ the Emag on/off, FA can be achieved at around 19ish bps (sry, no goldwave on this one yet).

I envisioned the entire marker as a completely gloss black setup, and with the aluminum panels I was lucky enough to pick up from paint_magnet, the marker turned out FAR better looking than I ever imagined. The only thing it's waiting on now is a new clamping feedneck (on the way), and a WWA Justice series barrel (having problems on that one, Joe isn't returning my emails, he's still got my barrel :( ).

The entire marker is ULE'd as much as possible (Xvalve, ULE body, ULE am/mm rail...), it doesn't weigh much more than my old Ion, if at all. Sorry, I have yet to officially weigh it in...

The Bad

Only thing I can think of here is that the Chimera frame has a rather smallish trigger guard, making it a little hard to walk the trigger until you get used to it. Not a big deal, it just takes a little getting used to.

On to the eye candy!

http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/227/pmag20wc.jpg

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/9081/pmag49iq.jpg

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/2286/pmaginternal25nv.jpg

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/5213/pmaginternals17mi.jpg

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/2889/pmaglowers3zt.jpg

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/5896/14bpssustained7bf.jpg
THANK YOU, AO FOR MAKING THIS POSSIBLE!!!

:hail:

[Toll]

Beauty. Very nice, very clean.

Would you say an EMag valve is a large detriment without a ULT?

[ttink]

That looks awesome. Mad props.

[FinchMan]

Awesome setup. That is definately one of the smoothest looking pneumags i've seen. One of the best looking mag's I've seen in a while too.

[RogueFactor]

That is one of the cleanest installs Ive seen! :wow:

Very nice job :headbang:

You know what you need on that masterpiece?!?! A new trigger....e-mail me at roguefactor@earthlink.net I think I will find you a gloss black ViperBlade or Splinter Trigger to go with that bad *** marker! :ninja:...yes, at no charge...consider it a gift! :dance:

[BigEvil]

I think I will find you a gloss black ViperBlade or Splinter Trigger to go with that bad *** marker! :ninja:...yes, at no charge...consider it a gift! :dance:



Props to you Rogue..!!! :cheers:

(And they wonder why I stay with the mag family)

[afortuna]

How sturdy is the banjo fitting on the LPR? Can it withstand a paintball hit?

Very sweet. If my wife knew I was seriously thinking about buying all of the parts...well...I'll be in trouble, but that marker is sweet. Now if I can just get someone to buy my ION :eek:

[shorty24]

I think I will find you a gloss black ViperBlade or Splinter Trigger to go with that bad *** marker! :ninja:...yes, at no charge...consider it a gift! :dance:

No...WAY... You are awesome!!! Emailing you...

[shorty24]

Would you say an EMag valve is a large detriment without a ULT?

Not at all :cool:


How sturdy is the banjo fitting on the LPR? Can it withstand a paintball hit?

I'm sure it will, it feels very sturdy...we'll see, but I have high hopes :cheers:

[surfbum]

very sweet
i only hope my electro-pnuemag comes out as clean

[master_alexander]

i like it. definatley the best looking job on here so far.

[surfbum]

just wondering... do you have any pictures of the acuator?
it looks like its been milled a little differently than the others ive seen

thanks, looks great! :cheers:

[c0rpse]

Did he use the 3 way with or without the roller?

[behemoth]

my jaw just hit the ground.


thats probably the NICEST P-MAG i've EVER SEEN.

Which makes me want one.


Pnuemagger is a local....

[shorty24]

just wondering... do you have any pictures of the acuator?
it looks like its been milled a little differently than the others ive seen

thanks, looks great! :cheers:

I could get some later...


Did he use the 3 way with or without the roller?

Honestly...you'd have to ask Pneu

[m-a-r-k-7]

Isn't Pmag what mags with a pump kit are normally refered to as? Whatever, onto the praise.

:eek: OMG that is amazing. I have yet to see a nicer install. You are a lucky man.

[68magOwner]

Super clean, i would really like to play with that thing a few times

[tyrion2323]

Now THAT's how it's supposed to be done.

[NewbieMagMan10988]

Now THAT's how it's supposed to be done.


Super clean...

Mad props

(the new hAir trigger.....)


Mike

[Gen]

That is absolutely beautiful. I'm gonna have to make one now.

[fire1811]

Nice job now we need a video with paint :p

[behemoth]

Nice job now we need a video with paint :p

QFT.

[m-a-r-k-7]

If it wern't for the set screw coming out of the back a little, you wouldn't even be able to tell there's anything different about the frame... if you disregard the LPR...

[Pneumagger]

Did he use the 3 way with or without the roller?
Doesn't matter. I chop the lever about in half to fit where it's at. It still gives about 3X mechanical advantage versus a standard MSV-1 and just enough force to quickly return a trigger.



just wondering... do you have any pictures of the acuator?
it looks like its been milled a little differently than the others ive seen
The MPA-3 was dremmeled a bit differently. Much more sturdy and allows for removal and installation of the mechanical sear if desired.

I dont own a mill, but hopefully will have a 3 or 4 axis CNC on the way in a few weeks when I find a good one. You can bet I'll post a full tutorial when I get time to write one up with pictures. But right now, I'm fairly busy with another electromag project plus working 50hrs a week.

Shorty24, I'm glad you like it. I really enjoyed working on it. My Pneumatic mag gets back from the anodizers in a bit. We'll have to compare ;) .

[Pneumagger]

How sturdy is the banjo fitting on the LPR? Can it withstand a paintball hit?
Very sweet. If my wife knew I was seriously thinking about buying all of the parts...well...I'll be in trouble, but that marker is sweet. Now if I can just get someone to buy my ION :eek:
That is the front banjo fitting from my ION internals. It looked so good during testing, I couldn't let it go back to shorty with an ugly barb on it. But the tradeoff was well worth it IMHO. Shorty24's Mag >> My Functional Ion internals


If it wern't for the set screw coming out of the back a little, you wouldn't even be able to tell there's anything different about the frame... if you disregard the LPR...
I was going to shave it down to the gripframe, but was too afraid to scratch his frame if i got too close.
If rouge's frame wasn't so gosh darn ULE milled, I coulda had more material to work with and it wouldn't of stuck out the back. The frame was so light it kept floating off my drill press, I had to clamp it when I was drilling. :rolleyes: [/rest of advertisement here]

/no but really
//It's light

[NoForts4Me]

That is beautiful. I definately have marker envy!

[FiXeL]

Wow, that is a awesome gun! :wow:

A nice piece of fine craftmanship if you ask me.. :headbang:

[dahoeb]

you just modded your way into paintball heaven, congratulations. ;)
awesome marker

[Evil Bob]

Very cool setup. The only thing that would make it cooler would be to have the LPR integrated into your gas through grip.

Pneu - Ought to talk to either rogue or Luke and see if either of them can set you up with a frame with all the right milling and mounting locs so all you need to do is drop the parts in :)

-EB

[c0rpse]

Do you think you could mount the 3 way the same way in an intelliframe?

[shorty24]

Nice job now we need a video with paint :p

Workin on it :cool:

[shorty24]

Oh, and Pneumagger; there's your pics of the internals, lemme know if you want any others...

/If you like, I could email them to ya.

[armyboot]

You mentioned the trigger guard being a tad tight, I was just wondering how it compares to a y-frame or intelliframe?

[shorty24]

You mentioned the trigger guard being a tad tight, I was just wondering how it compares to a y-frame or intelliframe?

It is noticeable tighter than the intelliframe for sure, couldn't say anything about the y-frame, cuz I haven't shot one.

[BerSerK]

It's awesome, simply awesome! Bravo!

It's nice to see that mags still get better through times.

Now I want a pmag too, can't wait to read the tutorial, thanks for your work, a lot of people will benefit from it! :D

[shorty24]

It's awesome, simply awesome! Bravo!

It's nice to see that mags still get better through times.

Now I want a pmag too, can't wait to read the tutorial, thanks for your work, a lot of people will benefit from it! :D

coughPneumagger'sworkcough

Thanks for the compliments, guys! I can't thank AO enough, this mag never would have seen the light of day if I hadn't been directed to this forum.

Thank you, AO!!!

[BerSerK]

well who ever did what, you have my respect! Keep on the great work! ;)

[RogueFactor]

It is noticeable tighter than the intelliframe for sure, couldn't say anything about the y-frame, cuz I haven't shot one.

Dont be so sure... :D

http://home.earthlink.net/~roguefactor/ChimeravsIFrame.jpg

There is just as much space in the Chimera(pkus a little more) than the intelliframe.

[shorty24]

There is just as much space in the Chimera(pkus a little more) than the intelliframe.

Cr@p, now I had to pull out my old intelliframe, and of course, Rogue is right. Guess it just seemed a lil smaller to me after being away from mags for so long... :rolleyes:

[RoadDawg]

I like it... that is exactly what I want to do to mine. I just don't have the resources/time to do it.

[Little_Ho]

How about a Parts list???

So we can start the same thing...lol

[A-Tach-One]

This marker is beautifully done! Congrats on a sweet Pneumag!! :cheers:

[scrumpy]

What was the total cost of the project if you don't mind my asking? I want to know if I can afford doing something similar.

[BerSerK]

What was the total cost of the project if you don't mind my asking? I want to know if I can afford doing something similar.

I would like to know that too.

[surfbum]

cost assuming you already have a grip frame
LPR: huge range, for a new micro rock: $45
MPA-3: $10
SMAV-3: $16
QEV: $8

thats for the parts, you are obviously going to have to pay someone else if you want them to make it for you

[Pneumagger]

cost assuming you already have a grip frame
LPR: huge range for a new micro rock: $45
MPA-3: $10
SMAV-3: $16
QEV: $8

thats for the parts, you are obviously going to have to pay someone else if you want them to make it for you

And you would know this info how???

there is no Microrock here and no SMAV-3. The pics clearly show a Fabco brand 3 way, not a clippard. And that LPR is a Shocktech, which regulates great also.

[surfbum]

And you would know this info how???

there is no Microrock here and no SMAV-3. The pics clearly show a Fabco brand 3 way, not a clippard. And that LPR is a Shocktech, which regulates great also.

i know that the LPR is not a micro rock and the 3 way is a fabco

but they asked how much a mod like this would cost, the difference in cost between the smav-3 and fabco 3 way is only about $2 and the micro rock is a very common LPR for this type of mod so i decided to give them the prices as an approximate total of the cost of the parts for the modification

all the prices come from airsoldier.com

[Woodsball Willy]

Alright, Thank you for letting me be a part of this community - I like to be around stuff that makes sense :P

I have a question, probably a noob one.. ...

uhh.. reading the other pnumag threads, I dont know forsure how to accomplish a mag like this.. what do i do?

Please indulge me...


So, my Pmag project has finally been completed! I would dare say this is Pneumagger's greatest work... Major props to whistl3r, paint_magnet, Rogue, Luke, and of course Pneumagger for making this dream a reality. On to the review.

The Good

Trigger pull = practically nothing. Measured by Pneu at 1.8 ounces w/ ULT, and 2.2 ounces I believe w/ Emag on/off. This is honestly one of the smoothest shooting markers I've ever used, and by FAR the nicest mech. In fact, when firing its easy to forget that the gun is mech at all. Reaching a sustained 14 bps (see goldwave pic), this marker is by no means slow. Even better is the fact that when the LPR is dialed in just right w/ the Emag on/off, FA can be achieved at around 19ish bps (sry, no goldwave on this one yet).

I envisioned the entire marker as a completely gloss black setup, and with the aluminum panels I was lucky enough to pick up from paint_magnet, the marker turned out FAR better looking than I ever imagined. The only thing it's waiting on now is a new clamping feedneck (on the way), and a WWA Justice series barrel (having problems on that one, Joe isn't returning my emails, he's still got my barrel :( ).

The entire marker is ULE'd as much as possible (Xvalve, ULE body, ULE am/mm rail...), it doesn't weigh much more than my old Ion, if at all. Sorry, I have yet to officially weigh it in...

The Bad

Only thing I can think of here is that the Chimera frame has a rather smallish trigger guard, making it a little hard to walk the trigger until you get used to it. Not a big deal, it just takes a little getting used to.

On to the eye candy!

http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/227/pmag20wc.jpg

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/9081/pmag49iq.jpg

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/2286/pmaginternal25nv.jpg

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/5213/pmaginternals17mi.jpg

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/2889/pmaglowers3zt.jpg

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/5896/14bpssustained7bf.jpg
THANK YOU, AO FOR MAKING THIS POSSIBLE!!!

:hail:

[m-a-r-k-7]

http://www.chromaus.com/~shingodownload/phishhowto.pdf

There you go willy

Taken from: http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1296871

[afortuna]

You forgot to add in the cost for the line and the banjo. Still a very hot looking Automag.


cost assuming you already have a grip frame
LPR: huge range, for a new micro rock: $45
MPA-3: $10
SMAV-3: $16
QEV: $8

thats for the parts, you are obviously going to have to pay someone else if you want them to make it for you

[shorty24]

Pneu, help me out here, but I believe parts list for this particular setup is something as follows:

Actuator
MPA-3 (w/ SS MPA-3 ram from Luke)
MSV-2R
QEV?
Air line and 90* fitting
LPR

Look to spend anywhere from $80-$150 if you do this mod (similar to this one) on your own, depending on what LPR you choose, whether you get stuff new or used, and the extent of other custom work you want to get done to it (i.e. rail milling, trigger stops, vert ASA tapped for a forward port, etc...all things I got done by Luke).

/for those who keep asking, NO, I WON'T do this mod for you...especially seeing as how I had someone else do mine for me in the first place (I don't possess the technical ability or the tools), if you didn't pick that up in the first post...

[slade]

good choice on going with the MSV-2, its a better choice than an MSV-1 for a pneumag. I would have gone with one, but im either selling my mag or making it electropneumatic, its been sitting around unused for too long.

very cleanly done, good job.

[Pneumagger]

Pneu, help me out here, but I believe parts list for this particular setup is something as follows:

Actuator
MPA-3 (w/ SS MPA-3 ram from Luke)
MSV-2R
QEV?
Air line and 90* fitting
LPR

Look to spend anywhere from $80-$150 if you do this mod (similar to this one) on your own, depending on what LPR you choose, whether you get stuff new or used, and the extent of other custom work you want to get done to it (i.e. rail milling, trigger stops, vert ASA tapped for a forward port, etc...all things I got done by Luke).

/for those who keep asking, NO, I WON'T do this mod for you...especially seeing as how I had someone else do mine for me in the first place (I don't possess the technical ability or the tools), if you didn't pick that up in the first post...

Yes you pretty much got it right. Actual parts cost will only be about $75 heavily depentand on the exact setup. But if you don't have all the tools/bits/taps/drills/dremmel/etc...It could be very costly to get up and running. The QEV looks a little funny because I initially was going to have it in a different tighter spot and set it up for the input to go into the side to keep a low profile. But then I decided to install it differently so i installed a plug and cemented it with 1 ton expoxy. Nothing major. When I post some pics of my mine you'll see how I was going to install it.

[Chaos_Theory!]

That looks hot. I think i may have to build one after i get soem of my excess ion parts sold.

Your mag looks a lot like my ion if i had a vert frame on it.

[Shingo]

VERY NICE!!! By far, the best looking PnueMag. :headbang:

~Shingo~

[Shingo]

Shorty24...

One question... what is that dark grey "goop" on your QEV? Where do you get it?


~Shingo~

[p8ntball72]

Yes you pretty much got it right. Actual parts cost will only be about $75 heavily depentand on the exact setup. But if you don't have all the tools/bits/taps/drills/dremmel/etc...It could be very costly to get up and running. The QEV looks a little funny because I initially was going to have it in a different tighter spot and set it up for the input to go into the side to keep a low profile. But then I decided to install it differently so i installed a plug and cemented it with 1 ton expoxy. Nothing major. When I post some pics of my mine you'll see how I was going to install it.


:D

[slade]

ugh, just looked at the pictures again. do you realize that you have a lot more hose in between the MSV-2 and MPA-3 than necessary, and if you cut out the QEV and extra hose, it might actually increase the max ROF?

[Jonno06]

definitly the nicest automag i've ever seen.


and i'll be contactice pneumag about one of these beauties soon as well :hail:

[evildead420]

http://fugato.net/wp-content/napoleondynamite.jpg

Lucky....

:cheers:

[shorty24]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

very nice... and thank you...

[shorty24]

ugh, just looked at the pictures again. do you realize that you have a lot more hose in between the MSV-2 and MPA-3 than necessary, and if you cut out the QEV and extra hose, it might actually increase the max ROF?

From what I understand, max ROF won't be all that significantly affected. Also, from a technical standpoint, Pneumagger felt that a QEV was the best route to go, and I trust him with that.

I know there is a lil extra hose but...who sees it anyway? Doesn't really get in the way of anything so no big deal.

Oh yeah, still workin on getting the vids, but peaking at around 19-20 bps w/ this emag on/off, I don't think ROF is a limiting factor...

[Pneumagger]

From what I understand, max ROF won't be all that significantly affected. Also, from a technical standpoint, Pneumagger felt that a QEV was the best route to go, and I trust him with that.

I know there is a lil extra hose but...who sees it anyway? Doesn't really get in the way of anything so no big deal.

Oh yeah, still workin on getting the vids, but peaking at around 19-20 bps w/ this emag on/off, I don't think ROF is a limiting factor...

Slade is technically right...It is not necessary. But whenever I've run a ULT, Classic valve, or any other not so reactive setup...I tend to get chuffing and shortstroking past about 12-13 BPS with no QEV. Plus, because of the distance to be traveled from the MPA-3 to the small exhaust ports of the MSV-2, I felt that a QEV was in order. Feel free to remove it...It will still fire faster than humanly possible with a well set up ULT.

[RoadDawg]

So who can help me with a similar mod. My rig can be viewed here (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=184539) I'm obviously willing to pay for this and I would want it prior to Shatner 06.

[Pneumagger]

Got you covered ike a Jimmy-Hat. Drop me a PM.

[master_alexander]

although its dead sexy in black, anno it green so you can call it the "Pea Mag"

:rofl:

[slade]

From what I understand, max ROF won't be all that significantly affected. Also, from a technical standpoint, Pneumagger felt that a QEV was the best route to go, and I trust him with that.

I know there is a lil extra hose but...who sees it anyway? Doesn't really get in the way of anything so no big deal.

Oh yeah, still workin on getting the vids, but peaking at around 19-20 bps w/ this emag on/off, I don't think ROF is a limiting factor...
its not a matter of who sees the extra hose, its that the air has to move through the hose. you have a huge loop of hose there that the air must flow through to get to the actuator. also the QEV is placed in the middle of the hose, not on the actuator itself, so to vent the air still has to flow back through the hose, which defeats the purpose of the QEV... the only way it can help is by allowing some of the air to vent through the QEV instead of through the MSV-2, since the MSV-2 has a fairly small exhaust port, but then again, it also has a fairly small out port, which the air has to flow through to go through all that hose.

if i owned the gun id cut another length of hose (as short as you can) to go in between the actuator and 3-way, and test the marker. then you can decide whether you want to go with the QEV or not, testing the two would be the best way to decide.

[Pneumagger]

That is the only problem I've found with the MSV-2 at this point. The fact that the hoses go in/out of the bottom mean you gotta loop the hose all the way around. I've been trying to order some MSV-2R valves, but they never seem to have those. Those ones have the hoses coming out of the top of the 3way. I've put some serious thought into modifying the MSV-2 to have the output come out of the top and have a slightly larger radius at the ports and exhausts for better flow.

I'll have to ge around to posting my MPA-3/QEV combination. Keeps the QEV attached to the MPA-3 while still having a low enough profile to not have to chop the frame up at all. The MPA-3 isn't even drilled for a new input. I think that it would even please slade.

[slade]

That is the only problem I've found with the MSV-2 at this point. The fact that the hoses go in/out of the bottom mean you gotta loop the hose all the way around. I've been trying to order some MSV-2R valves, but they never seem to have those. Those ones have the hoses coming out of the top of the 3way. I've put some serious thought into modifying the MSV-2 to have the output come out of the top and have a slightly larger radius at the ports and exhausts for better flow.

I'll have to ge around to posting my MPA-3/QEV combination. Keeps the QEV attached to the MPA-3 while still having a low enough profile to not have to chop the frame up at all. The MPA-3 isn't even drilled for a new input. I think that it would even please slade.
it wouldnt be too hard to drill out the MSV-2 to have new input and output ports, and simply plug up the other ports. you could also try flipping the lever, although im not sure what that would entail.

IIRC there are actually 3 exhaust ports, so that the valve will have a quick enough exhaust without having the ports too large. they probably designed the MSV-2 that way because having an exhaust port thats too large could cause problems, so be careful if you try to bore it out.

how did you manage to attach the QEV to the MPA-3 without drilling a new input or chopping up the frame? given you probably have an RPG frame and i have a logic frame, but there cant be THAT much more room in the RPG. I managed to fit a QEV on the MPA-3 in my frame, but i had to mill the frame (for both the MPA-3 and the QEV), drill and tap a new input on the MPA-3, and cut the MSV-1.

that reminds me, what is the ID of the RPG frame? i had to mill out my logic frame and file down the MPA-3 because the ID the frame was milled out to is actually the bore size of the MPA-3.

[Pneumagger]

it wouldnt be too hard to drill out the MSV-2 to have new input and output ports, and simply plug up the other ports. you could also try flipping the lever, although im not sure what that would entail.

how did you manage to attach the QEV to the MPA-3 without drilling a new input or chopping up the frame? given you probably have an RPG frame and i have a logic frame, but there cant be THAT much more room in the RPG.

I flipped the lever on one...but tried to do so with a dremmel and hand drill...it kinda worked... but failure eventually won the day.

I have a logic frame too. All i did was widen it to fit the MPA-3. other than that there is no extra milling for the QEV. This means that i can take out the pneumatics to run normal mech if needed. I'll post pics when it gets back from Slipoftheknife Anodizing Co. my whole mag is getting a blue acid wash as we speak.

/thread hijack :ninja:

So how 'bout Shorty's Mag? :rolleyes:

[>><<]

You guys are confusin me with all this technical stuff! hahah

Mag Looks great if i wasn't broke i'd prolly have to get this done.

[slade]

I flipped the lever on one...but tried to do so with a dremmel and hand drill...it kinda worked... but failure eventually won the day.
ooh, yeah, a dremel and hand drill doesnt sound like the best option.


I have a logic frame too. All i did was widen it to fit the MPA-3. other than that there is no extra milling for the QEV. This means that i can take out the pneumatics to run normal mech if needed. I'll post pics when it gets back from Slipoftheknife Anodizing Co. my whole mag is getting a blue acid wash as we speak.
oh, okay. i can still convert my frame back to mech too without much of a problem... not that id want to.


You guys are confusin me with all this technical stuff! hahah

Mag Looks great if i wasn't broke i'd prolly have to get this done.
i dont see any technical stuff, do you, pneumagger? ;)

[cpt]

My goodness, that's beautiful!!!!!! I there anywhere with instructions how to make something like this?

[slade]

My goodness, that's beautiful!!!!!! I there anywhere with instructions how to make something like this?
yeah, everywhere you turn on this forum.

try checking the workshop.

[shorty24]

Ok slade, you win :rolleyes: . I'll cut another length of hose like you said, and try it w/ no QEV. But like Pneumagger was saying, if I could only get my ULT tuned...it shouldn't matter so much.

I'm eager to see what Pneumagger's setup looks like, too...

[Shingo]

I was wondering, you know how the MPA-3 has an exhaust port... can you take that exhaust and redirect the excess air to push the trigger back forward. Like a return trigger assist. Something like this:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h5/x_shingo_x/TriggerReturn.jpg



That air has to go someplace, why not put it to good use? Any thoughts on this? Does anyone know how much force that exhaust can produce?

~Shingo~

[slade]

Ok slade, you win :rolleyes: . I'll cut another length of hose like you said, and try it w/ no QEV. But like Pneumagger was saying, if I could only get my ULT tuned...it shouldn't matter so much.
hey, hey, whats with the rolling of the eyes...? i dont feel very appreciated :(

actually, i realized that since the MSV-2 uses a lever and therefore has a lighter pull but a longer actuation distance, a QEV could have a more profound effect. still, the best thing to do is to test multiple options yourself, and if you do use a QEV, mount it closer to the cylinder.


I was wondering, you know how the MPA-3 has an exhaust port... can you take that exhaust and redirect the excess air to push the trigger back forward. Like a return trigger assist. Something like this:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h5/x_shingo_x/TriggerReturn.jpg



That air has to go someplace, why not put it to good use? Any thoughts on this? Does anyone know how much force that exhaust can produce?

~Shingo~
i know the MPA-3 has a port, but its not exactly an "exhaust" port. its for air to escape when the piston goes forward, otherwise the air would have to escape through small gaps, such as between the piston and the washer, or the washer and the body of the actuator. adding the hole allows the air to vent and decreases the time required to actuate the valve.

what you are thinking of is most likely the exhaust ports on the MSV-1, and using that air to actuate a second cylinder doesnt strike me as that great of an idea.

[Shingo]

It was a thought. Since most PnueMag Mods use a 1-2 mm trigger pull, you wouldn't need a lot of force to push that trigger back forward. Also, was thinking of using the frame itself as the housing for the actuator. only need drill another hole on the frame, drop in a small rod or even a ball bearing as your ram and seal one end of it CT2 Hose Barb where the hose would connect to.

But, it might be more trouble then it's worth.

~Shingo~

[Pneumagger]

2 things...

There should be no air coming out of that hole. That is to vent the piston if it extends too far to a certain point. The piston shouldn't be extending that much...At least mine doesn't and it works real fast.

Why would you want a reactive trigger? Not many places allow bounce like that. If your going to bend the rules...just tune the frame for full auto.

[Pneumagger]

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g45/jrm33/Picture174.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g45/jrm33/Picture175.jpg

[shorty24]

^^^ looks nice

**Update**
Just got my emag on/off last night, installed it and brought it to the proshop...fired it side by side w/ the owner's heavily modded Shocker (set at 20 bps ramping). As soon as I had the LPR dialed in, the mag was OUTSHOOTING the Shocker, by a fair amount :wow: !!! I'm gonna get a vid up Monday hopefully, and I'll need a goldwave, but it was well over 20 bps. (ok, technically cps, as it wasn't with paint yet, you nazis...but it WAS full cycles, and I'll get a vid up w/ paint ASAP).

...another update w/ pics and vids coming soon :ninja:

[surfbum]

quick question:
is the emag on/off the same as the RT on/off just with the quad o-ring or is there another difference?

[Pneumagger]

the Pin is alot shorter to give snappier reactivity

[wjr]

I think that the pin is differant.

Hey shorty, did you buy the emag on-off from pneumagger? I sold him one a little while ago... just sort of curious.

And are you saying that it shoots faster with a more reactive on-off? I take it that you were testing it with a ult before.

[Pneumagger]

wjr...
I still got your on/off. He picked up a new one from AGD.
I tested with both the ULT and my emag on/off side by side. I never posted that video. I cant recall what that video up there has. I'd lean toward the ULT vid though.

Shorty...
All I can think is either our on/offs are slightly different, or maybe the sear stop is coming out. I'll measure my pin at work monday and see what I come up with.
When yuo take it to the shop, see if you can figure out how to test the LPR ouput. the 3way shouldn't go over 150psi and MPA-3 & QEV should be good to around 200psi. Pretty sure the hose can handle that. But you really shouldn't need more than 80psi.

[shorty24]

All right, I'll see if I can figure it out. I know the sear stop isn't coming out, I've kept an eye on that the whole time. Handily enough, we have a set of digital calipers at work, so I'll measure my pin too, and see what I come up with. I'll see what I come up with on LPR output when I go to the shop Monday, and get those vids, too.

/I think Pneumagger pretty much answered everyone else's questions...

[Tombola]

Hi and wwooow, this is really one of the coolest mags I´ve ever seen.

Have I read it right, that luke has made that rail for you? I´m planning to send him mine for a job like this. Is the rail milled out around the "sear-guide" (that channel, the sear is guidet through, or however that´s called)? If yes, isn´t that causing any problems?

Bye, T.

[afortuna]

I was wondering, you know how the MPA-3 has an exhaust port... can you take that exhaust and redirect the excess air to push the trigger back forward. Like a return trigger assist. Something like this:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h5/x_shingo_x/TriggerReturn.jpg



That air has to go someplace, why not put it to good use? Any thoughts on this? Does anyone know how much force that exhaust can produce?

~Shingo~

Other than the trigger return, is this drawing accurate for the set-up? I've looked at the other threads, but this drawing makes sense to me and helps provide a better sense of the lay-out required within the frame. Would an Eclipse QEV work as well? I think they are smaller than the Clippard.

[shorty24]

^^^ more or less...


Hi and wwooow, this is really one of the coolest mags I´ve ever seen.

Have I read it right, that luke has made that rail for you? I´m planning to send him mine for a job like this. Is the rail milled out around the "sear-guide" (that channel, the sear is guidet through, or however that´s called)? If yes, isn´t that causing any problems?

Bye, T.

If you mean the ULE milling, yes, it is milled around the sear guide channel. No problems at all, there is still a raised section in which the sear pin itself sits. I don't know, but if you look closely in that last pic I posted, you should be able to see it.

[Shingo]

Other than the trigger return, is this drawing accurate for the set-up? I've looked at the other threads, but this drawing makes sense to me and helps provide a better sense of the lay-out required within the frame. Would an Eclipse QEV work as well? I think they are smaller than the Clippard.

Thank you. Took me less then 5 minutes to draw it up on Adobe Illustrator. :D

My setup is pretty much like this... minus the trigger return.

~Shingo~

[shorty24]

Well, for those of you who have been waiting, I made a vid today. It's in Quicktime format, and I don't know how to change it to WMV or host it, but if someone could help me out with this, I'd like to get it goldwaved. Sorry, there's no paint (lvl10 was actin up as soon as I put paint in it), and it's really short...maybe just over 1sec of actual firing. BUT, it shows the full potential of this setup, FULLY cycling and reseting for each shot. I'll work on more vids later...

[Pneumagger]

Well, for those of you who have been waiting, I made a vid today. It's in Quicktime format, and I don't know how to change it to WMV or host it, but if someone could help me out with this, I'd like to get it goldwaved. Sorry, there's no paint (lvl10 was actin up as soon as I put paint in it), and it's really short...maybe just over 1sec of actual firing. BUT, it shows the full potential of this setup, FULLY cycling and reseting for each shot. I'll work on more vids later...

SEND IT HERE!!! Email = jrm33@case.edu

I'll do it tonight!

[shorty24]

vid now up in July MOTM!!!

[Makarov]

Why is the FABCO MSV-1 so popular to actuate the MPA-3? Why couldn't an autococker 3-way be used, like say, an ST bomb? I know it lacks spring-return and has an extra port, but that's nothing a 10-32 set screw and Wile. E. Coyote airsmithing can't fix. It seems like it could be advantageous due to the way in which it would be mounted and its short stroke.

If you look at the pneumag built during the RedEye (http://www.beog.org/redeye/pneumag.php) thing, they used a Clippard SMAV-3, which is shaped much like an autococker 3-way. I much prefer the way that was mounted, rather than how the MSV-1 is; with one screw and a lot of friction.

Perhaps there is no difference. But i'm just throwing the idea out there, in case it hasn't already been considered.

[slade]

Why is the FABCO MSV-1 so popular to actuate the MPA-3? Why couldn't an autococker 3-way be used, like say, an ST bomb? I know it lacks spring-return and has an extra port, but that's nothing a 10-32 set screw and Wile. E. Coyote airsmithing can't fix. It seems like it could be advantageous due to the way in which it would be mounted and its short stroke.

If you look at the pneumag built during the RedEye (http://www.beog.org/redeye/pneumag.php) thing, they used a Clippard SMAV-3, which is shaped much like an autococker 3-way. I much prefer the way that was mounted, rather than how the MSV-1 is; with one screw and a lot of friction.

Perhaps there is no difference. But i'm just throwing the idea out there, in case it hasn't already been considered.
because a cocker 3-way is actually a 4-way, has no return, and generally, a longer pull. the MSV-1 is very light/snappy, the MSV-2 is even lighter with a longer required pull.

[BigEvil]

Quick question - how light is the pull with the Fabco valve? Is it walkable? Did you do anything special to lighten the pull?

[slade]

Quick question - how light is the pull with the Fabco valve? Is it walkable? Did you do anything special to lighten the pull?
how walkable it is depends on, well, your finger strength, the valve itself, and the valves location. the higher up the valve is in the trigger (the activation point) the greater walkability (longer and lighter pull). the MSV-2 achieves the same thing as putting the valve further up, just adding a lever to make the pull longer and lighter.

[shorty24]

How light is the pull? 1.8 ounces w/ the ULT.

[Pneumagger]

Originally Posted by BigEvil
Quick question - how light is the pull with the Fabco valve? Is it walkable? Did you do anything special to lighten the pull? I measured the frame with ULT installed at a 1.1oz (35g) midlength trigger pull. Shorty measured it at a 1.5oz pull he said.
With RT on/off I got about 2.1oz (70g). I used weights set in the middle of the trigger. So the weight of the trigger was probably helping itself. The minimum pull distance is about 1mm to 1.5mm.

The feel is still different than electro though. Not like a magnetic pull or a spring pull. It's a smooth constant pull force at all the distances, not clicky at all. Not snappy, but not sluggish. It kinda stays with your fingers with a constant force on the pull and release. It' unique and easy to get into a rythem with. I got to shoot a DM6 a few days ago. Kinda like that, only the DM6 still had an "electro" feel.

Would you call this walkable?

14 BPS Sustained (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhvzeEZceZ8)

[surfbum]

hey pneumagger:
where did you get that fitting on the top of shorty's lpr?
thanks

[Pneumagger]

I took it out of my ION. So it will handle about 200+psi and take a beating. If i knew they were like $7 a peice, I woulda held onto it. Oh well... I've upgraded to an Emag :headbang:

[surfbum]

I took it out of my ION. So it will handle about 200+psi and take a beating. If i knew they were like $7 a peice, I woulda held onto it. Oh well... I've upgraded to an Emag :headbang:

do you know where you can get them new?
or at least what they are called?
thanks
(sorry for the thread highjack)

EDIT: found them thanks for the info

[Makarov]

would the MSV-1 or MSV-2 fit in an intelliframe?

[wjr]

Yes.

[shorty24]

Yes.

:rofl:

/they *should* both fit, I guess it depends on how you want to set it up