The complexity of reffing paintball

[Lohman446]

Ok, the fact of the matter is I often spend time reflecting on any day. A week ago I was reffing a tournmant, during that tournament I added to the chaos of paintball four times. Of that there was one that I was 100% right on, have the witnesses to back it, and see no problem in it. Another time I watched a player shoot his own foot and I called him out. This was questionable and I did it, the other refs on the field would not have - I discussed it with them later. One time I came up to a player who had paint on his pack. It was just enough to call him out on, it was fresh enough that it came off when I put my finger on it. I called him out. In hindsight it was a different color paint, there was borderline enough to call (and obviously not by the time everyone looked at it later). I give then one an excusable oops.

The final one a player ran through, hit early and continued. The easy call was to pull a one for one. I did not. I came across the field and tried to tell the other player he was still in. The other player had already raised his hand. Of course he dropped in and shot, which caused a problem with both teams thinking I had done badly. This took some time and the field owner to finally sort out.

In what other sport are penalties assed during action? Football a flag is thrown, refs converse and then penalize (and sometimes pick up the flag). In baseball calls are made after action and prior to the next play. Even hockey the penalty is called and not assessed to a convenient stop in action. Nascar takes several laps to judge and assess penalties and even then wait days.

Is it not imperative to better format that we find a way to make assessing penalties more fair, more considered, and more "in time" with the game?

[geekwarrior]

Ok, the fact of the matter is I often spend time reflecting on any day. A week ago I was reffing a tournmant, during that tournament I added to the chaos of paintball four times. Of that there was one that I was 100% right on, have the witnesses to back it, and see no problem in it. Another time I watched a player shoot his own foot and I called him out. This was questionable and I did it, the other refs on the field would not have - I discussed it with them later. One time I came up to a player who had paint on his pack. It was just enough to call him out on, it was fresh enough that it came off when I put my finger on it. I called him out. In hindsight it was a different color paint, there was borderline enough to call (and obviously not by the time everyone looked at it later). I give then one an excusable oops.

The final one a player ran through, hit early and continued. The easy call was to pull a one for one. I did not. I came across the field and tried to tell the other player he was still in. The other player had already raised his hand. Of course he dropped in and shot, which caused a problem with both teams thinking I had done badly. This took some time and the field owner to finally sort out.

In what other sport are penalties assed during action? Football a flag is thrown, refs converse and then penalize (and sometimes pick up the flag). In baseball calls are made after action and prior to the next play. Even hockey the penalty is called and not assessed to a convenient stop in action. Nascar takes several laps to judge and assess penalties and even then wait days.

Is it not imperative to better format that we find a way to make assessing penalties more fair, more considered, and more "in time" with the game?


yes, but how? Even if you went back and reviewed it with video, because of the speed of paint and the distance between players, it would be difficult.

We used to have a paintcheck when we played, which froze the game....kinda works in rec, but not ideal. It would be impossible in speedball, changing the whole dynamic of the game.

The only way I see it happening is through alot of technology, almost like laser tag, so that when you get hit, you gun turns off. But even that would be difficult.

Maybe the ONLY way is to make players honest, punish more for cheating. I cant stand how people still shoot when they know there out, just to take the other player with them. :mad:

[punkncat]

I have reffed paintball for the past 5 years or so. I was up until recetly the head ref at the city field here in town.

There is no way you can make calls right at the moment all the time. There is constant action going on and you cannot be diverted from play to argue over the intricacies (sp?) of a call you made. The thing is to stay consistant with your calls, and to know for sure, right or wrong, that the ultimate will back you up.

As far as the paint on pack call. It is the players responsibility to make sure they are wiped up and ready for play. If there is something on them that consitutes a hit then they are gone. They don't like it they can clean up between games. Refs don't have to see the hit, or explain it. All we do is call you for having them....

The other call may have been easier to access a one for one in the intrest of smooth play.

Players will always find something to complain about, so I wouldn't bother over it.


I have since chosen to get away from reffing. I learned a lot about the game doing it all those years, and enjoyed the experiance until recently. I think I just got burned out, and have decided to blend back into the rec balling community. The hardest part about not reffing for me is keeping my mouth shut when people are taking too much time starting games or just doing stupid things....but I decided to quit reffing and I refust to make it my job any longer at my expense(if you get me).

[Lohman446]

In hockey, or at least the minor league hockey I watch live there is an interesting concept. When a penalty occurs play does not stop. However, the offending team cannot score a valid goal.

Make it simple, you commit a penalty your team can no longer win the game. At the end of hte game the other team is given the option of counting how it went and assessing a one for one penalty at the end against you, or of assessing the one for one and restarting the game (after a pause for refills) with your team playing down one for the penalty (all hits removed, all other players active again). This would keep refs from having to assess penalties during the action, and make all penalties even harsher. I mean look at basketball. If you charge on your way to the basket, and still make the basket, it doesn't count.

[punkncat]

In paintball there are expendible items whereas with the other sport(s) you have mentioned all that is really lost is a bit of game time. I cannot see where many teams would be willing to "do over" after blowing several pods of paint finishing up a game where they may not even have known there was a foul. Almost every game has some situation that could be turned into a "do over" and games would never complete.

I am in agreement that reffing a high intensity game is extremely complex and difficult thing to do. Hopefully some set of rules or technology will be developed to ease the human factor in both the refs and the players calls.

[hitech]

When you think about it, there is only one big problem. That is players continuing to play after they are hit. That is the problem that needs to be fixed. I still say that making players responsible for calling themselves out regardless of where they are hit is the key. I think a good start to solving the problem is penalizing players for continuing to play after they are hit and kept track of penalties by player. Too many penalties and you suffer some sort of consequence.

That is until technology offeres a better solution. ;)

:cheers:

[paintman1234]

I was reading a recent issue of facefull talking about bluetooth tech in guns.

If every ref carried a sort of pda that would shut off a players gun when he was hit. If you wanted to take it even farther so that you shut everyones gun off to sort out a penalty im sure you could, similar to nascar were they make you slow down with a flag instead of actually shuting off your car (which Im sure they could do if it got out of hand)

[MarkM]

Another time I watched a player shoot his own foot and I called him out. This was questionable and I did it, the other refs on the field would not have - I discussed it with them later. He/she is out plain and simple, I was was watching a guy once who was having major barrel/bolt breaks and he cleaned the marker out every time correctly except the last...he was using his hand to block the barrel and flipping the marker to clear it out using the gas...the last time he still had a ball in the breech, I could see his eyes welling up. To be sure I asked to see his hand and sure enough a nice neat ball break. Just because a player shoots themselves is tough they are out, many times expecially in X-Ball a player will be shot by his own team, it still counts.


One time I came up to a player who had paint on his pack. It was just enough to call him out on, it was fresh enough that it came off when I put my finger on it. I called him out. In hindsight it was a different color paint, there was borderline enough to call (and obviously not by the time everyone looked at it later). I give then one an excusable oops. Already covered but it is the players responsibilty to report to the field clean of all hits. See above for the 'possible' direction the hit had come from ;) If a ref was ever to ask 'what colour paint I am firing?' my answer is always the same 'all of them' so see that question doesn't help ref's if the player is quick enough to think ;)


The final one a player ran through, hit early and continued. The easy call was to pull a one for one. I did not. I came across the field and tried to tell the other player he was still in. The other player had already raised his hand. Of course he dropped in and shot, which caused a problem with both teams thinking I had done badly. This took some time and the field owner to finally sort out. 1-4-1, for sure, your lack of this call caused the trouble the field owner had to sort out. Nothing you could have done about the actually live player since they had indicated they were eliminated from the game, the minimum justice for that player would have been the 1-4-1 call, depending on how far the advancing player had moved a possible 2-4-1. This distance is not set in stone you have to dfecide at the time, game changing is often far enough but again you have to make this call at the time as YOU see it.

It is an imperfect situation but due to the nature of the game all changes to the rules are patches to keep things moving. the examples you give are sports that can withstand a stop or slowing down of the event, paintball isn't one of these. The only time for a pause in play or stopping of play is a safety reaction to an injury or dare I say it ...a fight. :nono:

[Lohman446]

Without a doubt every call could have been better... especially the last one detailed. The point is, if I had paused the game to assess penalties I would have found the offending team to have no players left - and I knew I had screwed up as soon as the game ended. Luckily for me there had been a live player on the team opposite the offending team who cleared the field and ended the game so it was not too much of an issue, just enough to cause controversy. Could I have solved it wtihout the field owner? Yeh, no doubt. But I knew both teams and whatever my decision would have been would have been argued, so it was better for me to walk out, drag the captains with me, be there when the situation was explained to the field owner, and let him come up with the decision. It saved us all time in not fighting it out twice.

[hitech]

Bluetooth won't work, it is intended for VERY short-range wireless transmission (think hopper to marker).

Penalizing players EVERYTHIME they continue to play when they are hit would go a long way toward cleaning up the game. However, I don't think those that make the rules want to do that.

[buzzboy]

I often have problems such as these at my place. I regularly see people wipe and promptly call them out. My only problem is calling 1 for 1's. I have trouble with who to call out as my second person.

My other big problem is bad calls from half hearted refs. I had one guy sitting in my ref box at the 50 trying to make calls on guys in the far back bunkers. It doesn't work.

[XMAG-XT00125]

All the replies above have answered everything i think...about the 1-4-1...just take off the closest player to the one you're taking off...Playing on is a 1-4-1 offence and seems to work well here.
I also find that that half hearted refs can cause more trouble than they are worth and are better to be left off the field.
The biggest problem i find is run thrus and bunkering where most of the time you are only able to see one player getting hit due to angles etc ....then its "I hit you first blah blah blah"...i take off the first player i saw hit and work from there, if theres too much arguing about it.. Pull both players quickly to get the field clear so both teams know where they stand.
As a ref, all you can do is do your best at that point in time and most of all, keep the reffing consistant....and remember 'stick to your guns" Don't let players push ya around :shooting: